Web Browsing Performance on Android 2.2 Hampered by Flash Compatibility

[Hal Itosis]

Typical fanboy answer, you don't want or need flash because Steve jobs said you don't want or need flash.

Perhaps (as indicated in the answer), the poster was referring to the article linked to in post #1. Are you trying to say that <pocketnow.com> are fanboys too? [looks like a fairly PeeCee-oriented place to me.]

Another typical fanboy response, the only people saying flash is past Its prime are the most rabid apple zealots. Your typical apple zealot thinks everyone on the planet should change their websites in to an apple approved form.

Steve Jobs has criticized Flash, and now his Apple Cultboys are all on the bandwagon.

Again, you people are operating under a delusion (fueled by ignorance). There is no shortage of Flash critics who simply don't fall into your neat little "Apple-is-the-only-opponent" perspectives. Take the Free Software Foundation for example (no love for Apple there, yet plenty of disgust for Flash). Or, how about this from as far back as 2000: "About 99% of the time, the presence of Flash on a website constitutes a usability disease." [Nielsen's no fanboy either, AFAIK.]

And why would porn sites want to switch from Flash? As SJ said, porn will not be allowed on iPhone anyway and all other phones will have Flash soon.

I see several posts where porn appears to be a major concern for you, so get your facts right: it will not be allowed in the AppStore. If you really need it on an iPhone/iPad, then visit a website which serves non-Flash-based feeds. [i'm sure they're out there... and probably multiplying like rabbits, even while you folks whine about it.]

 

[AidenShaw]

I have Serenity both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. No difference.

Useless anecdote.

Since Blu-ray and HD-DVD use the same codecs, it's quite possible that any particular movie released on both is bit-for-bit identical - of course you won't see any difference if the video file is identical.

In other words, the Serenity BD may have been "dumbed-down" to match the HD-DVD release - compressed to fit the 30 GB limit of HD-DVD.

Note that the Avatar BD disc has no trailers and other crap - it's 50 GB of movie. (and a six-channel 96 kHz/24bit lossless audio track)

Consider yourself forewarned. This initial release of Avatar contains nothing but the film— no bonus materials, no trailers, nothing. Aside from the film itself, the only things on the disc are the menu, the requisite FBI piracy warning screen, and a brief—but very cool—promo for THX that only plays after the end credits. The 4-disc "Ultimate Edition" of the film will hit stores in November, and will include a two-hour making-of documentary, deleted scenes, and other goodies.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Avatar-Blu-ray/7847/#Review

_______________

But anyway, my point was that HD-DVD comprimised on storage capacity for manufacturing compatibility - and lost to the format with more storage. (And, already, we see many multi-BD disc movie releases because 50 GB is too small. Bring on the 100 GB quad-layer disks ASAP.)

 

[eastercat]

So maybe it's not (only) Flash that makes the browser laggish? Maybe the browser is just bad one in general?

On the amazon.com test (which doesn't have flash on the front page), the new android browser did load up faster than the iPhone. Of course, there's the fact that Nexus one is supposed to be faster than the 3GS. Of course, the problem in the comparison is the speed chasm that currently exists. It's not a real comparison with two disparate processors.
There'll be a better comparison when the upgraded iPhone comes out.

 

[kenypowa]

+1

Choice is a crock. The "Tech Savvy" will never understand that.

Sounds like you come from North Korea. Choice is bad, big brother Kim is good. The "outsiders" will never understand how great N. Korean government is.

 

[daze]

Flash would not be garnering all this controversy if it was properly optimized. And I get the sense that it may not be an easy task to do it if even if it were truly worked on. Case in point, my MBP Core i7 2.66GHz seems to need full speed fan cooling if a YouTube video happens to be playing in the background.

Sorry Adobe. You had a chance.

 

[clochard42]

To be honest it would be a piss-poor effort if Android 2.2 on a Nexus One wasn't faster than an iPhone 3GS, considering it has a 66% faster CPU and more than twice the RAM of a 3GS.

Glad that finally somebody hit the point. Would like to have a comparison with the iPad - which has 1 GHz as well, and for sure the next iPhone will have more than 600 MHz.

 

[Compile 'em all]

Based on everything else it showed, without Flash, it smoked the iPhone. And here's some tests they didnt run but I've done on my own during my two years with an iPhone - Making phone calls. The iPhone's biggest drawback is that its a god-awful PHONE. What's amusing is that my wife has a phone on the ATT network as well and it never drops calls like the iPhone does. Hmmmm.

My iPhone dropped only two phone calls in the last year.

Go complain to your network operator.

 

[Lord Vader]

In other words, the Serenity BD may have been "dumbed-down" to match the HD-DVD release - compressed to fit the 30 GB limit of HD-DVD.

Will you notice the difference, honesly?

 

[SansArc]

What's new???

Flash is garbage. ClicktoFlash is awesome. I've realized how much I actually care for Flash. I still stand by at least having the option. However I understand Jobs push back. One, for the sake of pushing the web forward. Second, protecting the iPhones image in terms of performance. I have a feeling that because Flash is enabled. The other non-geeks of the world would blame performance issues on Apple and other mobile tech producers. Adobe continues to ride unscathed in this sense. I don't care to debate whether Flash is better than HTML5 or vice versa. I dislike the fact that Flash appears to be lazy. They know the mobile market is still open for their format and people want it. Adobe want to get it out asap and not address the continuing issues of Flash. A TaptoFlash, as another poster said, would be great though. Apple needs to address Apple. Google needs to address Google. Adobe is no different. I love the fact that all of these guys are making strides to provide the best tech and software ever made. Yet here Adobe is, dragging their butts.

 

[richman555]

As a web developer and techie for the past 15 years, I can say for sure that I will not miss Flash at all. Sure it has been a good job for some of the more creative folks, but it really has never been intended for the web and certainly not mobile devices. Flash to me at its core is like the old activex controls of yesterday. I worked on browser support in the mid 90's for the Netscape web browser and flash hasn't changed much over time. Every new version will chew up more resources that is for certain and it appears to be slow even on a brand spanking new mobile device.

Last but not least, why not embrace the HTML 5 future of the web? Would you like to be stuck with old tools or move things forward? This is where the true innovation is! Flash on mobile devices only will lead to the average joe with a subpar experience. In fact I would bet most people wont even use it. I applaud Apple for moving things forward.

 

[austinjw]

Glad that finally somebody hit the point. Would like to have a comparison with the iPad - which has 1 GHz as well, and for sure the next iPhone will have more than 600 MHz.

They did that at the Google I/O. A nexus with froyo destroyed the ipad too..

 

[AidenShaw]

Will you notice the difference, honesly?

Perhaps yes (see the Avatar notes above), depending on the movie. James Cameron would definitely say "yes". The director's cut of Avatar will be 200 GB (4 BD discs).


Serenity, however, could be a poor choice for a comparison. One review notes:

Of all the four initial HD DVD titles released at launch, 'Serenity' may be the least visually impressive. Not that it's the fault of the HD DVD format, but rather indicative of the style of the film itself.

A rough, oftentimes grungy-looking movie, 'Serenity' is not supposed to look totally polished, which means it is not quite ideal home theater demo material. Highly stylized with a processed veneer, the look of 'Serenity' sometimes varies wildly, with some shots looking almost crystal clear, and others heavily sprinkled with film grain, pumped-up colors and bleached out whites that make it appear as if the film was left out in the sun too long. Maybe its a bit schizophrenic, but it can sure look cool.

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/57/serenity.html

(\___/) 
(='.'=) <--This is a bunny. Bunny is not a troll. 
(")_(")

That's a cat, not a bunny. Sorry.

 

[skyehill]

My iPhone dropped only two phone calls in the last year.

Go complain to your network operator.

I did. I cancelled ATTs lousy service and dumped my iPhone. Now I'm in the market for a new phone and a new provider. And guess what- it feels GREAT to have choices.

 

[zacman]

Is it just me? Or, is this comparing a current Nexus One with a 1GHz processor to a year-old 3Gs with a 640 MHz processor and a year-old OS? Let's see how the Nexus One with Froyo competes against the new iPhone when it is released in the next month or so. THEN, you will be offering a more fair comparison. No?!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBQFXRW5ZiE

Starting at 6:47. Ouch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfmbZkqORX4

Eek.

 

[Reed Rothchild]

At least with Android 2.2 you have the option to enable or not enable Flash. It's treated as an app that you choose to install via the Android marketplace.

There is no reason why this choice can't be part of the iPhone experience. It will never happen of course. Jobs hates Flash because of the threat of web-based applications impinging on his cash-cow app store. Simple as that. Those who believe that Apple are blocking Flash purely because Jobs is thinking of the batteries have drunk the apple juice 100%.

Android is shaping up to be the Windows of the mobile generation. Cheap and ubiquitous. Apple are obviously quite happy to take their 5-10% market share due to high profit margins and the aura of exclusivity attached to such rarely seen hardware. I sincerely hope that the new generation of Apple Scruffs don't turn out to be like the old gen . It's all been done before. Been there, seen that, bought the t-shirt....

 

[oban14]

I disable flash on my Mac! Who needs that crap! Some moron playing some lame game on facebook?

The only time I actually need to turn on flash is occasionally when i order domino's pizza! Pages load much quicker without flash and usually most flash content seems to be annoying advertisements.

I also prefer my porn in high quality, hi-def, so no loss for me there either.

1) I don't think anyone who admits to ordering from Domino's should be listened to when it comes to matters of quality.

2) That goes for your porn habit as well.

3) Are you single by any chance?

 

[arbourable]

I'm sorry if your experience on the Mac isn't the same, but hey, you did pick a computer with a tiny marketshare, so you can't really complain that all software isn't super optimised.

We agree, Adobe can't be bothered with supporting Flash on the Mac, so d'you think Apple should now turn round and put Flash on iPhone OS? D'you think Flash will run just as well on all phones, or only on the ones Adobe can be bothered to optimise? Hell, even Microsoft kicked Adobe in the balls because of poor performance/security, and they're the ones supposed to be getting priority treatment. Proprietary tech has no place on the web BECAUSE the small guy always gets screwed, that's why SJ won't give in on Flash, nor should he. If the web is based on open standards, Apple can fix it for themselves, and aren't reliant on other companies who aren't motivated. Why is this so hard to understand for some?

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

We agree, Adobe can't be bothered with supporting Flash on the Mac, so d'you think Apple should now turn round and put Flash on iPhone OS?

No. Apple is not responsible for getting flash on the iPhone. Apple is responsible for getting a plug-in architecture going for its browser. You know, something standard with all major browsers. It's not really the internet in your pocket if you can't access a major part of the internet.

D'you think Flash will run just as well on all phones, or only on the ones Adobe can be bothered to optimise?

Adobe doesn't need to optimize their code for every device, they just need to make the plug-in robust enough to take advantage of various hardware.

Hell, even Microsoft kicked Adobe in the balls because of poor performance/security, and they're the ones supposed to be getting priority treatment. Proprietary tech has no place on the web BECAUSE the small guy always gets screwed, that's why SJ won't give in on Flash, nor should he. If the web is based on open standards, Apple can fix it for themselves, and aren't reliant on other companies who aren't motivated. Why is this so hard to understand for some?

Your arguments still don't clarify why users shouldn't have a choice. Isn't that what being open is about: choice?

 

[Shin3r]

Look not everything is doom and gloom about Flash. What about this video reported by Engadget? The guy clearly says Flash playback is almost as smooth as a desktop/ laptop computer. Sure it's going to be buggy in places but I'd much prefer having the option than not at all.

The reality is, everyone acts like Mr. Jobs is sinful because he chooses not to have flash on his operating system and that somehow it takes "choice" away from the consumer.

I say those people should get up off of their entitled rears. The fact is that "choice" has not been taken away from the consumer. You are free to purchase whatever phone you want. That is how the market works. Choice isn't you getting to dictate every aspect of what a company does to make you feel like you have the best experience. I mean, what about my choice to not want flash ever considered to be put on the iphone?? (Not true of course, I couldn't care if it's there either way, I just can't stand cry babies).

But I digress, Buy a different damn phone already!!

 

[fifthworld]

The funny thing is that I can skip annoying flash content because is in flash. When flash will be death, the annoying content will be not, but I'll have lost the ability to avoid it.

 

[arbourable]

I have Netflix. I have a ps3 that plays blurays and DVDs. I CHOOSE to rent the Bluray versions unless I'm taking the movie to a family members home that has no bluray player. Hmmm choice is a wonderful thing. ...to everyone except fanboys apparently.

Whatever.

Thanks for the "Fanboy" appellation though, I'll have a badge made and wear it with pride!

 

[soup4you2]

Yes flash is available.. But they never highlighted the fact that you have to install the plugin from the market place. You also have the option from the browser to enable/disable/ or load on demand.

Also yes I agree with the rest of you that Flash sucks! being a Linux user since the mid 90's there's a strong hatred for it in my heart. But however I do want the option to have it if the device is capable of supporting it.

HTML5 is not yet ready to replace flash, HTML5 is still a baby and has not matured yet. this is a fact. because of this It's important to still offer people the use of flash.

Now lets start a chart of features each OS has and start comparing. Please feel free to build upon this list.

Built in Functionality: 			iPhone: 		Android:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phone 						Yes 			Yes
SMS 						Yes 			Yes
MMS 						Yes 			Yes
Browser 					Yes 			Yes
Flash 						No 			Yes
MP3 Player 					Yes 			Yes
App Store 					Yes 			Yes
Turn-Turn GPS Navigation 	   	        No 			Yes
Email 						Yes 			Yes
Unified Email Inbox 				Not Yet 		Yes 
Multitasking 					Not Yet 		Yes 
Camera 						Yes 			Yes
Video Recording 				Yes 			Yes 
SD Card Storage / Access 			No 			Yes 
Voice Input 					Yes 			Yes
USB Tethering 					No 			Yes 
Wifi Tethering 					No 			Yes 
Copy / Cut / Paste 				Yes 			Yes
App Notifications 				Yes 			Yes
Phone Wide Search 				Yes 			Yes
Parental Controls 				Yes 			No
Bluetooth support 				Yes 			Yes
Exchange support 				Yes 			Yes
Multitouch 					Yes 			Yes
Sync / Backup 					Yes 			Yes
Customization 					No 			Yes
Carrier choice 					No (yes outside US) Yes

 

[rhett7660]

Yes flash is available.. But they never highlighted the fact that you have to install the plugin from the market place. You also have the option from the browser to enable/disable/ or load on demand.

Also yes I agree with the rest of you that Flash sucks! being a Linux user since the mid 90's there's a strong hatred for it in my heart. But however I do want the option to have it if the device is capable of supporting it.

HTML5 is not yet ready to replace flash, HTML5 is still a baby and has not matured yet. this is a fact. because of this It's important to still offer people the use of flash.

Now lets start a chart of features each OS has and start comparing. Please feel free to build upon this list.

Built in Functionality: 			iPhone: 		Android:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phone 						Yes 			Yes
SMS 						Yes 			Yes
MMS 						Yes 			Yes
Browser 					Yes 			Yes
Flash 						No 			Yes
MP3 Player 					Yes 			Yes
App Store 					Yes 			Yes
Turn-Turn GPS Navigation 	   	        No 			Yes
Email 						Yes 			Yes
Unified Email Inbox 				Not Yet 		Yes 
Multitasking 					Not Yet 		Yes 
Camera 						Yes 			Yes
Video Recording 				Yes 			Yes 
SD Card Storage / Access 			No 			Yes 
Voice Input 					Yes 			Yes
USB Tethering 					No 			Yes 
Wifi Tethering 					No 			Yes 
Copy / Cut / Paste 				Yes 			Yes
App Notifications 				Yes 			Yes
Phone Wide Search 				Yes 			Yes
Parental Controls 				Yes 			No
Bluetooth support 				Yes 			Yes
Exchange support 				Yes 			Yes
Multitouch 					Yes 			Yes
Sync / Backup 					Yes 			Yes
Customization 					No 			Yes
Carrier choice 					No 			Yes

Shouldn't some of those android's "Yes" be not yet also? Unless of course 2.2 has already started shipping. And the carrier choice is only limited to the states, you have a choice outside of the states.

 

[Lord Vader]

Yes flash is available.. But they never highlighted the fact that you have to install the plugin from the market place. You also have the option from the browser to enable/disable/ or load on demand.

Also yes I agree with the rest of you that Flash sucks! being a Linux user since the mid 90's there's a strong hatred for it in my heart. But however I do want the option to have it if the device is capable of supporting it.

HTML5 is not yet ready to replace flash, HTML5 is still a baby and has not matured yet. this is a fact. because of this It's important to still offer people the use of flash.

Now lets start a chart of features each OS has and start comparing. Please feel free to build upon this list.

Built in Functionality: 			iPhone: 		Android:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phone 						Yes 			Yes
SMS 						Yes 			Yes
MMS 						Yes 			Yes
Browser 					Yes 			Yes
Flash 						No 			Yes
MP3 Player 					Yes 			Yes
App Store 					Yes 			Yes
Turn-Turn GPS Navigation 	   	        No 			Yes
Email 						Yes 			Yes
Unified Email Inbox 				Not Yet 		Yes 
Multitasking 					Not Yet 		Yes 
Camera 						Yes 			Yes
Video Recording 				Yes 			Yes 
SD Card Storage / Access 			No 			Yes 
Voice Input 					Yes 			Yes
USB Tethering 					No 			Yes 
Wifi Tethering 					No 			Yes 
Copy / Cut / Paste 				Yes 			Yes
App Notifications 				Yes 			Yes
Phone Wide Search 				Yes 			Yes
Parental Controls 				Yes 			No
Bluetooth support 				Yes 			Yes
Exchange support 				Yes 			Yes
Multitouch 					Yes 			Yes
Sync / Backup 					Yes 			Yes
Customization 					No 			Yes
Carrier choice 					No 			Yes

iPhone supports USB Tethering. Get your facts straight. Also player and App Store parts are a bit on different levels, so such plain style can't be used to compare

Connect via USB.
You can also use the USB cable included with your iPhone to enable Internet tethering — and charge your iPhone at the same time. Connect your iPhone to your computer via USB and select the iPhone USB network service as your network connection. All the necessary software is automatically installed using iTunes.

 

[wovel]

I have Netflix. I have a ps3 that plays blurays and DVDs. I CHOOSE to rent the Bluray versions unless I'm taking the movie to a family members home that has no bluray player. Hmmm choice is a wonderful thing. ...to everyone except fanboys apparently.

You could choose to buy an Android phone or Choose to buy an iPhone or choose to by a Razr for all I care. It appears you choose not to have a point.

Adobe doesn't need to optimize their code for every device, they just need to make the plug-in robust enough to take advantage of various hardware.

This is a talent that clearly does not exist within Adobe. I agree it must not be too hard, MS did a great job of it. Silverlight blows away flash player performance on windows and OSX.

The best part of this whole discussion is that Flash player 10 still does not run correctly on a Mobile device and the haters still think it is Apple's fault flash is not on the iphone.