WeChat Users Group Sues Trump Administration Over 'Unconstitutional' Ban

[MacRumors]

A group of WeChat users has filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration in an effort to block an executive order that would ban the app in the United States, according to The Wall Street Journal.

Earlier this month, President Trump signed two executive orders that would officially ban any U.S. transactions with ByteDance and Tencent, the Chinese companies that own TikTok and WeChat, respectively. The order will be enacted on September 20, but TikTok can avoid a ban if an American company can agree a deal to acquire its U.S. operations before that date.

Filed by the WeChat Users Alliance and several other plaintiffs in the U.S. District Court in San Francisco, the lawsuit claims the executive order to ban WeChat is unconstitutional and violates the right to free speech. It also claims the ban illegally targets Chinese-Americans who use WeChat to communicate with Chinese citizens. An attorney for the group, which is made up of people who depend on WeChat for personal and business purposes, says it is hoping that the Trump administration will have to clarify which WeChat transactions would be subject to the ban.

WeChat is extremely popular with Chinese mobile device users, essentially operating as its own platform on top of iOS and Android for many users, but the app is also widely used around the world and has over 1.2 billion monthly active users.

It's still unclear whether the ban applies to the WeChat app only in the United States or if it will result in the removal of the WeChat app from iPhones across the globe. At any rate, any ban would be bad news for Apple. In a worst-case scenario, Apple's annual global iPhone shipments could decline by 25–30% if it is forced to remove WeChat from its App Stores around the world, according to analyst Ming-Chi Kuo.

In a Weibo survey, 95 percent of the 1.2 million people who responded said they would switch to an Android smartphone over an ‌iPhone‌ rather than give up WeChat.

Over the weekend, TikTok also confirmed it plans to sue the Trump administration over the executive order, perhaps as early as Monday. ByteDance, TikTok's parent company, is believed to be in talks with Microsoft about the software giant acquiring the app's U.S. operations. Other companies including Twitter are also reportedly in talks with TikTok.

Note: Due to the political or social nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Political News forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

Article Link: WeChat Users Group Sues Trump Administration Over 'Unconstitutional' Ban

 

[OlliFlamme]

Banning for whatever reason, a social platform, within a democratic country is against it's own principles. It is a perfect example of how the democratic system historically has and will shoot its own foot...

Just to say: they are damn right they sue in whichever desperate way it may seem. To remove a channel of speech is not an easy endeavour...

 

[wowotoe]

how about Facebook, Google, and Youtube in China?

 

[ArPe]

Banning an app that could be used as spyware by a foreign dictatorship isn’t unconstitutional. The Founding Fathers would have done the same thing if such technology existed in their time and the British Empire was spying on Americans to track dissidents.

 

[ArPe]

how about Facebook, Google, and Youtube in China?

UncOnsTiTiONaL of the CCP to do that

 

[ruka.snow]

how about Facebook, Google, and Youtube in China?

It isn't a tit for tat scenario.

 

[OlliFlamme]

Banning an app that could be used as spyware by a foreign dictatorship isn’t unconstitutional. The Founding Fathers would have done the same thing if such technology existed in their time and the British Empire was spying on Americans to track dissidents.

Aren't there many apps that "could be used as spyware"? Wouldn't even your operating system be able to potetnially be used as spyware?
This is a political mess that has definitely affected hundreds of thousand plain innocent people.

Reworked code would solve that, as will the paste notification in Apples current beta iOS14 that notifies a end user of the controversial behaviour of the current app.

What if the whole hype was around an US based company? What about Facebook that has repeatedly breached way more obvious ethical boundaries? Why weren't they forced to stop their activities? not sure I understand. Oh yes, because it is not a "foreign dictatorship", but just a rotten company inside your own country...?

 

[OlliFlamme]

It isn't a tit for tat scenario.

For many, such logic is the first logical step of discussion

 

[repoman016]

Apple (bans) removes all vaping apps from the app store and nobody bats an eye. trump wants to remove spyware apps from the chinese government and everyone loses their mind!

 

[ArPe]

Aren't there many apps that "could be used as spyware"? Wouldn't even your operating system be able to potetnially be used as spyware?
This is a political mess that has definitely affected hundreds of thousand plain innocent people.

Reworked code would solve that, as will the paste notification in Apples current beta iOS14 that notifies a end user of the controversial behaviour of the current app.

What if the whole hype was around an US based company? What about Facebook that has repeatedly breached way more obvious ethical boundaries? Why weren't they forced to stop their activities? not sure I understand. Oh yes, because it is not a "foreign dictatorship", but just a rotten company inside your own country...?

There are serious legal repercussions of implanting spyware in an app and Apple already vets that for apps made in America for example. But when data flows through China then Apple and the US government are powerless. You, a person who had their data collected, are powerless and you cannot even try to sue a company in China. They will simply laugh at you.

if you are a dissident or refugee you also have to pray that a hitman isn’t sent to finish you.

Think of the people who are directly targeted. Many dissidents, defectors and refugees also have their families targeted by such regimes.

 

[timber]

Banning for whatever reason, a social platform, within a democratic country is against it's own principles. It is a perfect example of how the democratic system historically has and will shoot its own foot...

Just to say: they are damn right they sue in whichever desperate way it may seem. To remove a channel of speech is not an easy endeavour...

While I agree with you another way democratic countries have been shooting themselves in both feet, repeatedly, is pretending their are dealing with some other countries as in some sort of level playing field (using an expression quite dear from the EU, where I am from).
So I would say things are complicated and what is really to regret is that this US moves aren't more than a personal knee jerk reaction instead of a real strategy.

 

[tridley68]

Thank you President Trump for looking out for the good of the country 👍👍👍👍👍

 

[ian87w]

Wait, what? Talk about irony. LOL. Americans are full of funnies.
If they were truly Americans, maybe they should research the idea and concept of free speech, and who they are defending.

 

[Krizoitz]

Banning an app that could be used as spyware by a foreign dictatorship isn’t unconstitutional. The Founding Fathers would have done the same thing if such technology existed in their time and the British Empire was spying on Americans to track dissidents.

Any application CAN be used as spyware. Banning based on that reason means banning all apps, and all network connected computers for that matter.

Further, your knowledge of history is seriously lacking if you believe the Founding Fathers would ban something based merely on theoretical potential for abuse.

Now if there is actually evidence the app is being used for spying the. You might have a case, but right now there is no evidence of that. Further, many apps can and do legally gather information on people, heck it’s how Facebook and Google keep the lights on. It’s what store discount cards are all about. Credit card companies have done it for decades. Gathering information, especially with consent isn’t necessarily illegal or “spying”.

Is it possible China is leveraging these apps to illegally surveil people in the US? Yes.
Is there reason to be concerned about apps like TikTok? Sure.
Should Trump or any President be able to unilaterally ban an app without legal or judicial process? Absolutely not.

 

[ruka.snow]

Wait, what? Talk about irony. LOL. Americans are full of funnies.
If they were truly Americans, maybe they should research the idea and concept of free speech, and who they are defending.

Think from their point of view. We have a situation where these people can be cut off from friends and family. Would you like if your kids suddenly couldn't FaceTime their grandparents?

 

[ian87w]

Think from their point of view. We have a situation where these people can be cut off from friends and family. Would you like if your kids suddenly couldn't FaceTime their grandparents?

Taking pity on the Chinese Americans actually seems offensive to me. It's as if the Chinese Americans are helpless if they don't have wechat on their iPhones, and need the help of white people to communicate with their family. On the contrary, the Chinese are very resourceful. Banning wechat from iOS will only hurt Apple. People will just get Android phones and life goes on.

 

[ruka.snow]

Banning wechat from iOS will only hurt Apple. People will just get Android phones.

This isn't an Apple only ban, this is a US wide ban. I can't imagine it would go down well if 'the' services for Americans to contact loved ones when they are overseas was suddenly banned. Essentially we are talking about cutting off millions of people from their families, never-mind the implications for businesses.

 

[H2SO4]

Apple (bans) removes all vaping apps from the app store and nobody bats an eye. trump wants to remove spyware apps from the chinese government and everyone loses their mind!

Yep, cos that's completely the same thing. Thanks for bringing that to our attention.

Could you have brought up an example any further from the subject? That's what Trump does.

 

[ian87w]

This isn't an Apple only ban, this is a US wide ban. I can't imagine it would go down well if 'the' services for Americans to contact loved ones when they are overseas was suddenly banned. Essentially we are talking about cutting off millions of people from their families, never-mind the implications for businesses.

Again, imo it is offensive to imply that the Chinese are not creative enough to device a workaround if your hypothetical situation even remotely possible
- If Trump bans Wechat on iOS and Google Play Store, you can download the APK directly from Wechat website. The loser is Apple.
- If Trump wanted to block all Wechat communications, then he had to somehow block the wechat traffic on all ISPs and wireless carriers in the US. Very unlikely (US is not China, there's no great firewall). Besides, there's a thing called VPN, TOR, etc etc.
- Plain SMS/phone calls are not blocked. Emails are not blocked. Still plenty of ways to communicate.

 

[russell_314]

I have a feeling that the biggest loser in this will be Apple. I understand Trump is trying to get a better deal for the USA with trade negotiations but I don’t think this is the way to go. Banning Chinese apps that people use will just push certain people away from the platform. In the end China will just carry on and Apple will lose sales

 

[russell_314]

Again, imo it is offensive to imply that the Chinese are not creative enough to device a workaround if your hypothetical situation even remotely possible
- If Trump bans Wechat on iOS and Google Play Store, you can download the APK directly from Wechat website. The loser is Apple.
- If Trump wanted to block all Wechat communications, then he had to somehow block the wechat traffic on all ISPs and wireless carriers in the US. Very unlikely (US is not China, there's no great firewall). Besides, there's a thing called VPN, TOR, etc etc.
- Plain SMS/phone calls are not blocked. Emails are not blocked. Still plenty of ways to communicate.

I think it’s sad that right now it’s sort of fashionable to be anti Chinese.

 

[szw-mapple fan]

how about Facebook, Google, and Youtube in China?

None of them are banned in China. They elected not to be in the Chinese market because they do want to follow Chinese Internet security laws (which is totally fine, but that doesn't mean they are banned). Companies like Apple and MS have services like iMessage, Skype and LinkedIn, all of which work just fine because they comply with those laws in China.

 

[szw-mapple fan]

Again, imo it is offensive to imply that the Chinese are not creative enough to device a workaround if your hypothetical situation even remotely possible
- If Trump bans Wechat on iOS and Google Play Store, you can download the APK directly from Wechat website. The loser is Apple.
- If Trump wanted to block all Wechat communications, then he had to somehow block the wechat traffic on all ISPs and wireless carriers in the US. Very unlikely (US is not China, there's no great firewall). Besides, there's a thing called VPN, TOR, etc etc.
- Plain SMS/phone calls are not blocked. Emails are not blocked. Still plenty of ways to communicate.

Not to mention there is still iMessage and FaceTime.

 

[russell_314]

Not to mention there is still iMessage and FaceTime.

That is the plan to be able to communicate with my friends in China if the US bans WeChat. It’s kind of scary that a government can just decide hey you can’t use this app anymore and you might lose contact with friends. You sort of expect that from a government like China but not so much the USA.

 

[1144557]

Again, imo it is offensive to imply that the Chinese are not creative enough to device a workaround if your hypothetical situation even remotely possible
- If Trump bans Wechat on iOS and Google Play Store, you can download the APK directly from Wechat website. The loser is Apple.
- If Trump wanted to block all Wechat communications, then he had to somehow block the wechat traffic on all ISPs and wireless carriers in the US. Very unlikely (US is not China, there's no great firewall). Besides, there's a thing called VPN, TOR, etc etc.
- Plain SMS/phone calls are not blocked. Emails are not blocked. Still plenty of ways to communicate.

Not to mention there is still iMessage and FaceTime.

Except that has nothing to do with data going through servers in China subject to their laws/government. The central issue here.

If China is actively recording their citizen's calls then 🤷‍♂️ I would doubt it based on their population size that such is feasible.

As stated, you as a US Citizen have ZERO rights to sue China, get that data, or dictate what happens to it in China. You use the app, to bad so sad whatever you do on it.

Of course "there is always a way" but making it less accessible to the masses still does work. iOS is out of luck and most android users have ZERO clue how to side load.

My guess here is due to national security reasons the ban would be upheld within the US borders from a legal standpoint. National security, which is a legit argument here (maybe not so much for Tiktok), is usually a trump all (no pun intended) argument.