iPad Pro Went to the Apple Store for the iPad Pro, came back home with a Surface Pro

[DarwinOSX]

Pretty silly reasons. Especially the kickstand. There are already any number of cases that do that and moe to come. It's not like it's some brilliant innovation.
Oh and you looked at one keyboard and it sucked so off to the Surface Pro? There are already 3 or 4 other keyboards out and will be many more.

The iPad Pro is designed to be the best tablet it can be and the Surface is designed to be a laptop and a tablet. It's mediocre at both and yes I have used the 3 and just got a 4 at work for testing.

I'm hoping you had some better reason than the kickstand and one keyboard. I can think of some myself but I prefer a really good tablet and a really good laptop to something that is not very good at either.


TYopu

I went to the Apple Store to try out the iPad pro. I really wanted it to work since I'm kind of devoted to the Apple ecosystem. However, two major flaws on the iPad pro compared to the surface - no kickstand and bad keyboard.

The iPad pro is just to big and heavy to hold. Without a case, it can't stand on its on.

And the keyboard is way below the type cover. No real key travel and I have to say it looks uninspiring to me personally. The type cover finally won me over because I plan to do a lot of typing, writing reports, emails etc.

 

[DarwinOSX]

I like competition but the app story on the Surface as a tablet is far worse than you say. Many people barely use their Surfaces as tablets anyway and that's one of the reasons why.
You are somehow unaware that their are many app on the app store that expose the file system? Why do you need that anyway? It's an artificiality created when computers went from command line to GUI so that it would somehow resemble a desktop.

It seems you may be in the minority.

I live in a large University Town. Last year at school and the various Starbucks shops surrounding the campus, 75% of the laptops were MBA or MBP.

This year a conservative estimate reveals 80% Surface Pro Models. What a surprise to see what the Students choose now. I must say it got me to try one. I enjoyed it so much I bought a Surface Pro 3 and really enjoy it.

As much as I like iPads, with the productivity killing iOS 9 and failure to provide an essential file system, Windows 10 provides a very significant advantage.

Oh sure, they may not have as many games and fart apps as Apple, but they've got a nice selection of software for work and school. Given the high popularity Microsoft will see that more apps follow soon.

It's good to see Microsoft giving Apple a run for its money.

 

[maxsix]

I like competition but the app story on the Surface as a tablet is far worse than you say. Many people barely use their Surfaces as tablets anyway and that's one of the reasons why.
You are somehow unaware that their are many app on the app store that expose the file system? Why do you need that anyway? It's an artificiality created when computers went from command line to GUI so that it would somehow resemble a desktop.

Before you _assume_ it pays to stay in your own lane.

The company I'm with is a very large scale international operation. With literally hundreds of my fellow engineers given a choice of platforms and devices in the tablet space, over eighty in my department alone had such stellar experiences with Surface Pro 3, we've upgraded to Surface Pro 4.

You may be unaware that business use involves files folders and directories. It's been that way for decades. iPads are Crippled.

But you're right, we are deprived of Fart Apps, Apple has the market won in that category

 

[blackoutz]

Pretty silly reasons. Especially the kickstand. There are already any number of cases that do that and moe to come. It's not like it's some brilliant innovation.
Oh and you looked at one keyboard and it sucked so off to the Surface Pro? There are already 3 or 4 other keyboards out and will be many more.

The iPad Pro is designed to be the best tablet it can be and the Surface is designed to be a laptop and a tablet. It's mediocre at both and yes I have used the 3 and just got a 4 at work for testing.

I'm hoping you had some better reason than the kickstand and one keyboard. I can think of some myself but I prefer a really good tablet and a really good laptop to something that is not very good at either.


TYopu

Why do I need any third party accessory to make it work? Plus the keyboard I've seen is no where near the type cover. They are just as uncomfortable and ugly as the smart keyboard Apple made and heavier.

 

[blackoutz]

Pretty silly reasons. Especially the kickstand. There are already any number of cases that do that and moe to come. It's not like it's some brilliant innovation.
Oh and you looked at one keyboard and it sucked so off to the Surface Pro? There are already 3 or 4 other keyboards out and will be many more.

The iPad Pro is designed to be the best tablet it can be and the Surface is designed to be a laptop and a tablet. It's mediocre at both and yes I have used the 3 and just got a 4 at work for testing.

I'm hoping you had some better reason than the kickstand and one keyboard. I can think of some myself but I prefer a really good tablet and a really good laptop to something that is not very good at either.


TYopu

I don't care about mobile apps. Both the iPad pro and surface pro are too heavy to use as primary tablet. I have a iPad Air. I'm looking for something that can help me be more productive on the go, hence the stress on a good keyboard.

 

[Michael Goff]

That might have been the case, years ago, but now we see apple actually copying MS, i.e., Surface Pro is very popular and now Apple has a 12" tablet with a stylus and type-cover like keyboard.

I'd say in a number of ways apple is the one largely adding features and not innovating but playing it safe. While there are exceptions, including the apple watch. Much of what we see coming from Cupertino are products that are thinner

There are more things that make the iPP different from the SP than similar.

 

[David58117]

I like competition but the app story on the Surface as a tablet is far worse than you say. Many people barely use their Surfaces as tablets anyway and that's one of the reasons why.
You are somehow unaware that their are many app on the app store that expose the file system? Why do you need that anyway? It's an artificiality created when computers went from command line to GUI so that it would somehow resemble a desktop.

What apps are lacking on the surface?

I had (past tense, since I sold my sp3 for an iPad pro...(which I'm regretting)) - news app, Facebook, Reddit, good RSS app, podcast app, email - am I missing an app?

In fact, you have it backwards.

I don't have StaffPad (an app on Windows) since switching, and the competition to it on iOS, is severely lacking, and actually feels like a toy in comparison to a professional piece of software.

And I used it as a tablet all the time...

 

[blackoutz]

What apps are lacking on the

I had (past tense, since I sold my sp3 for an iPad pro...(which I'm regretting)) - news app, Facebook, Reddit, good RSS app, podcast app, email - am I missing an app?

In fact, you have it backwards.

I don't have StaffPad (an app on Windows) since switching, and the competition to it on iOS, is severely lacking, and actually feels like a toy in comparison to a professional piece of software.

And I used it as a tablet all the time...

i feel because of the lack of first party apps, third party apps are much more robust on Windows than iOS. Like Reddit, YouTube and feedly, I much prefer the third party ones on the surface than first party on the iPad.

 

[PhoneI]

Before you _assume_ it pays to stay in your own lane.

The company I'm with is a very large scale international operation. With literally hundreds of my fellow engineers given a choice of platforms and devices in the tablet space, over eighty in my department alone had such stellar experiences with Surface Pro 3, we've upgraded to Surface Pro 4.

You may be unaware that business use involves files folders and directories. It's been that way for decades. iPads are Crippled.

But you're right, we are deprived of Fart Apps, Apple has the market won in that category

Wow, the fart app argument never really goes away. I have a Surface Pro 3. It is an awful tablet and a decent laptop. If we are just referring to touch based apps, the SP has almost zero quality apps.

 

[tdale]

It usually takes Microsoft 3 attempts to get a product right. Surface pro 3 was a winner.

And surface pro 4 is more of a refinement and that's why I went with it. I have had all iPad 1-iPad air 2. Skipping iPad pro.

I just posted link for macrumors that iPad pro was on sale at target. But I tell my friends if they have an iPad Air 2 not to upgrade. But iPad pro is definitely a buy for those with iPad Air or older iPads especially at a sale price.

Now reason I went with surface pro 4. I didn't feel iPad pro offered much performance difference for me (key word being me). It's not perfect. One of annoyances is when it's in tablet mode Windows should be smarter to know when to pop up the virtual keyboard when I click on the internet browser. I know there are options inside Windows for keyboard. But it needs to be more automatic and smarter.

It's definitely heavily. But 1.6/7 pounds isn't much and you get use to it. And it's so much more powerful. Can do real computer stuff. Combine with on sale $29.99 Microsoft wireless adapter. I can beam kodi easily. Of course I am electronics junkie so have minix neo h plus s812 4K box and Amazon Fire as well.

I shortened your post!

I have an rMBP, iPad Air, 6Plus. If I was going on holiday and wanted to backup my photos, I'd take all 3. The iPad is great at consumption, but past that its clumsy and workaround galore. Or just take iPad, phone and SD cards

Totally agree.

There's no doubt that iOS is NOT done evolving by a long shot. Operating system updates will continually refine and build upon itself to give more and more functionality. The iOS you see and experience today is NOT the iOS that Apple envisions it will become. Cook has made it clear that Apple has a direction, good or bad, that they're focusing on and as far as they're concerned, the future of computing is Mobility, which IS iOS and not OS X.

This first itineration of iPad Pro is technically amazing for what can be done hardware wise. It's only held back by it's 'current' operating system and available software apps which will change in the near future and it only stands to get better as iOS evolves and 'pro' level apps catch up to it's capabilities.

If iOS evolved to be able do do anything OSX can do, then its a cannibal device thats why it wont. Apple will slowly evolve it, essentially by adding Android features, but they will keep it lite, so you stop buying the laptop or the iPad in the future.

There are more things that make the iPP different from the SP than similar.

The OS is a huge difference. If you are good to go with using only tablet apps, the iPad is great. If you need to do more, its a fail. iOS offers a great subset to the overall computer experience. But its a subset, you need a laptop as well. The Surface, I guess you can use that as an all in one, as a full OS laptop and a tablet. How do the apps, in volume and quality compare to iOS?

 

[QquegChristian]

The OS is a huge difference. If you are good to go with using only tablet apps, the iPad is great. If you need to do more, its a fail. iOS offers a great subset to the overall computer experience. But its a subset, you need a laptop as well. The Surface, I guess you can use that as an all in one, as a full OS laptop and a tablet. How do the apps, in volume and quality compare to iOS?

I had two SP3s, now two SP4s. There is an absolute lack of apps in the Windows store... But you have to ask yourself... What is the use case of an iPad? As a tablet, the Surface has the full web, streaming video, email, photo albums, PDFs, note taking.

Then you have a full laptop as well.

I also use the full versions of Lightroom and Photoshop without the keyboard. Adobe made every single one of their full applications touch friendly for the Surface in a partnership with MS. Adobe wants to remain neutral, but Apple got the raw deal here. MS got the whole Creative Suite touch optimized and Apple got a few watered down apps that are no better than what other developers offer on iOS.

 

[MartyCan]

Yep, the iPad pro is slightly lighter. But I imagine the kick stand is super useful when, say, I'm having lunch and reading or watching something. I can take the keyboard off so it won't be stained.

The smart cover doubles as a stand.

 

[Warbrain]

If iOS evolved to be able do do anything OSX can do, then its a cannibal device thats why it wont. Apple will slowly evolve it, essentially by adding Android features, but they will keep it lite, so you stop buying the laptop or the iPad in the future.

If you don't cannibalize your own sales then someone else will. Apple has a good track record of introducing devices that replace old ones.

 

[ZombiePete]

There is an absolute lack of apps in the Windows store... But you have to ask yourself... What is the use case of an iPad? As a tablet, the Surface has the full web, streaming video, email, photo albums, PDFs, note taking.

Then you have a full laptop as well.

I think that what you really have to ask yourself is what do you as the user want to primarily do with the device that you're buying. Do you primarily want a tablet but will occasionally want to do some productivity stuff (e.g. Office apps and things of that nature), or do you want a laptop that you can detach the keyboard from and use as a tablet from time-to-time?

The Surface, in my experience, is an exercise in compromise; it excels at being neither a laptop nor a tablet, but is certainly far better at the former than the latter. The iPad Pro, whatever else it can (or claims it can) do is still an exceptional tablet, and now you can get a keyboard cover and digital pen for it. I don't feel like the iPP compromised its heritage as a tablet to accommodate new functions, whereas the Surface Pro is still trying to push an all-in-one experience that doesn't quite hit any mark but is good enough to get some people's needs all sated in one package.

 

[ahostmadsen]

What apps are lacking on the surface?

I had (past tense, since I sold my sp3 for an iPad pro...(which I'm regretting)) - news app, Facebook, Reddit, good RSS app, podcast app, email - am I missing an app?

In fact, you have it backwards.

I don't have StaffPad (an app on Windows) since switching, and the competition to it on iOS, is severely lacking, and actually feels like a toy in comparison to a professional piece of software.

And I used it as a tablet all the time...

There is no Yelp, no Google Maps...

The only thing I could find there is Facebook, and on my SP4 it constantly crashes.

 

[Warbrain]

There is no Yelp, no Google Maps...

The only thing I could find there is Facebook, and on my SP4 it constantly crashes.

But do you need those apps on a Surface? No.

 

[ZombiePete]

But do you need those apps on a Surface? No.

Why? Because you can just use the websites? I can do that on my iPP too, but the apps are certainly better for a touch-centric experience.

 

[Warbrain]

Why? Because you can just use the websites? I can do that on my iPP too, but the apps are certainly better for a touch-centric experience.

A full, proper web page is delivered to you on a Surface. Sites tend to still deliver terrible "optimized" experiences to iPads.

 

[maflynn]

The smart cover doubles as a stand.

It does but its not adjustable so that does limit its usefulness.

 

[ZombiePete]

A full, proper web page is delivered to you on a Surface. Sites tend to still deliver terrible "optimized" experiences to iPads.

Sometimes those "terrible" optimized sites actually work okay, but more often than not if I don't like it it's easy enough to request the desktop site (like I just did with Google Maps).

There's a certain irony, I have to say, in a Surface fan arguing that the limitations of the platform are actually an advantage.

It does but its not adjustable so that does limit its usefulness.

While I personally am generally fine with the smart cover, it's hard to argue against the usefulness of an integrated kickstand that can support multiple angles.

 

[Warbrain]

Sometimes those "terrible" optimized sites actually work okay, but more often than not if I don't like it it's easy enough to request the desktop site (like I just did with Google Maps).

There's a certain irony, I have to say, in a Surface fan arguing that the limitations of the platform are actually an advantage.

I've never claimed to be a fan of the Surface. I don't blindly believe in Apple's vision. Having to take an extra step to request the desktop version of a site is an unnecessary one, especially on an iPad, as it can handle a full-fledged site as well as a computer. We don't need apps for everything.

 

[ZombiePete]

I've never claimed to be a fan of the Surface. I don't blindly believe in Apple's vision. Having to take an extra step to request the desktop version of a site is an unnecessary one, especially on an iPad, as it can handle a full-fledged site as well as a computer. We don't need apps for everything.

Blame the site owner then, not Apple or the iPad. It still seems like a half-baked argument in favor of the Surface over the iPad to me, considering that in most cases the iPad can render the site as the Surface would and still has a far greater offering of touch-optimized apps available since it was built from the ground-up to work that way.

 

[ahostmadsen]

A full, proper web page is delivered to you on a Surface. Sites tend to still deliver terrible "optimized" experiences to iPads.

You can also use the web page on an iPad. But take Yelp. For some reason, their apps (iPhone, iPad) are so much nicer than their full webpage. Similarly, the Facebook apps on iOS just work very nicely. I think it has to do with optimization for the platform.

I'm not anti-SP. We bought one -- but primarily to use as laptop. As tablet it has shortcomings.

 

[QquegChristian]

Similarly, the Facebook apps on iOS just work very nicely. I think it has to do with optimization for the platform.

The iOS Facebook apps actually have a fan?! I'm perplexed by how buggy and fragmented they are/were for how big FB is. Haven't used them in a few months though.

 

[ZombiePete]

The iOS Facebook apps actually have a fan?! I'm perplexed by how buggy and fragmented they are/were for how big FB is. Haven't used them in a few months though.

It works for some things pretty well; I prefer checking in on the app than I do the website, and the integration into iOS the app gives you is nice on occasion. The point, though, is that you have the choice of either on iOS (though iirc there's a FB app for Windows too; I don't know how well it works); those choices are far more limited on Windows where apps are concerned.