iPad Pro Went to the Apple Store for the iPad Pro, came back home with a Surface Pro

[QquegChristian]

Before returning the iPP maybe consider using it as a slave for SP4.

You'd have to REALLY need tilt to work with that kind of setup when the main device can also draw in Photoshop! That said, many artists will definitely need tilt. But then they'd probably be better off buying a MacBook Pro as their main machine if they're going to tether.

I LOVE my Surface, but I'm not stupid enough to say that it is the best device if you aren't going to even use the pen features. If you're going to carry around 2 devices, the Surface is not for you.

 

[maflynn]

I'm a little late to this thread, but I will say as a SP3 owner, I find it has advantages over the IPP mostly because it runs a desktop OS. I don't need a gigantic iPad that only runs iOS apps. I find that Lightroom, Photoshop, gotomypc, RDP work so much better on a desktop OS then iOS.

The iPad is a touch first device, so there's no capability to use a mouse/trackpad and for something this large, I think that's a short coming. We could go on about the restrictions a mobile OS imposes on such a large device as well, but I think my point is made that while people may knock windows or the SP4, its a more capable machine.

I've said this before (and I'm sure I'll get flamed), it seems apple saw the success of the Surface Pro machines and emulated MS in rolling out the IPP. Its putting their own spin on the design, form and function, but nevertheless its a response to the Surface Pro.

With that said, I do love the design of the IPP and some of the features the pencil has, but at least for me its hamstrung because its running iOS.

 

[s2mikey]

I'm a little late to this thread, but I will say as a SP3 owner, I find it has advantages over the IPP mostly because it runs a desktop OS. I don't need a gigantic iPad that only runs iOS apps. I find that Lightroom, Photoshop, gotomypc, RDP work so much better on a desktop OS then iOS.

The iPad is a touch first device, so there's no capability to use a mouse/trackpad and for something this large, I think that's a short coming. We could go on about the restrictions a mobile OS imposes on such a large device as well, but I think my point is made that while people may knock windows or the SP4, its a more capable machine.

I've said this before (and I'm sure I'll get flamed), it seems apple saw the success of the Surface Pro machines and emulated MS in rolling out the IPP. Its putting their own spin on the design, form and function, but nevertheless its a response to the Surface Pro.

With that said, I do love the design of the IPP and some of the features the pencil has, but at least for me its hamstrung because its running iOS.

Well put. Thats why Aple calling this a "pro" device just doesnt make sense to me. Its just a BIG iPad. And while thats damned cool and all, Its simply too expensive for what you get when for roughly the same cash outlay you can score a powerful rMBP, MBA or even the new MacBook. The top end iPad Pro with the accessories(which are also overpriced) is darned costly!

 

[Warbrain]

Well put. Thats why Aple calling this a "pro" device just doesnt make sense to me. Its just a BIG iPad. And while thats damned cool and all, Its simply too expensive for what you get when for roughly the same cash outlay you can score a powerful rMBP, MBA or even the new MacBook. The top end iPad Pro with the accessories(which are also overpriced) is darned costly!

Pro doesn't mean professional to Apple. It's merely a name-based size and spec differentiator to make a top-of-the-line device. It's more a shock that they haven't used it on the iPhone line.

 

[maflynn]

Pro doesn't mean professional to Apple. It's merely a name-based size and spec differentiator to make a top-of-the-line device. It's more a shock that they haven't used it on the iPhone line.

Over the years, I've said the Pro moniker was used by Apple as a marketing term, but in this case I think its different. I think Apple is directing this product for the professionals. The unveiling of the IPP, the commercials and the remarks by Cook all seem to show that this is first and foremost a product for professional content creators.

 

[Warbrain]

Over the years, I've said the Pro moniker was used by Apple as a marketing term, but in this case I think its different. I think Apple is directing this product for the professionals. The unveiling of the IPP, the commercials and the remarks by Cook all seem to show that this is first and foremost a product for professional content creators.

I think that just comes with the territory the device exists in. It's inherent in it's design because people tried it with previous iPads. I would separate that out from the Pro branding..

 

[roland.g]

I am a huge Apple fan and have so much Apple stuff, have for years, and worked at an Apple Store for a couple years. When the Surface first came around I mocked the kickstand and the dumb commercials. But I also must use Windows for work. I have a 27" iMac, 13" MacBook Air, iPad Air (now the kids' iPad), an iPad Mini 2 (retina), and an iPhone 6S Plus along with several Apple TVs.

However, I think the Apple iPad Pro is really only an iPad XL at the end of the day. It's just bigger. It's not Pro.

The genius of the Surface Pro Type Cover is the angled keyboard like that of an Apple keyboard. That slight tilt makes a huge difference. The other big deal is the full OS. If Apple did a hybrid OS on the iPad Pro that ran OS X but could run iPad apps as well, it would be a game changer. A true laptop replacement that ran iOS apps. But the smart keyboard is lacking and how it turns into a stand doesn't beat the versatility of the Surface Pro. And I hate saying that. I would prefer an Apple product. But the browsing experience on an iPad is not as good as so many sites still don't play well with iOS. and I don't want to type anything on an onscreen keyboard unless it is my phone.

With the 6S Plus my iPad Mini 2 is really just collecting dust. And I will almost always use my iMac over the MBA because desktops are in my opinion always better because of screen real estate and how the trackpad/keyboard are easier to use than on a portable. The iPad Pro running El Cap with a better stand function, slightly improved smart keyboard, and the ability to run iOS apps would have been fantastic. A real game changer.

However, instead of innovating, Apple made the iPad bigger and added a stylus. OMG, talk about breaking down barriers. They had a real opportunity hear to answer the call, and came up way short.

I won't buy a Surface Pro because I don't want to run Windows, but I have no incentive to get an iPad Pro either.

 

[David58117]

I don't want to use Android or other alternative devices. I just want Apple to up their game. They missed the mark here, plain and simple. This isn't about advocating for the Surface Pro or another device. This is Apple fans who want to buy Apple products, disappointed that Apple didn't do well innovating here. Apple could kill the Surface Pro by making an iPad MBA OS X Keyboard thing that runs iOS apps too. I'd get it and have no interest in a 12" MacBook or MBA. And maybe that's what they are worried about. But I will still replace my 27" iMac every 3-5 years.

Microsoft and Apple did a weird flip recently, where Microsoft is the one innovating.

Look at Siri vs Cortana - while Microsoft is adding abilities above and beyond what Siri can do, Apple is updating her jokes..

 

[NT1440]

Microsoft and Apple did a weird flip recently, where Microsoft is the one innovating.

Look at Siri vs Cortana - while Microsoft is adding abilities above and beyond what Siri can do, Apple is updating her jokes..

Innovation is occurring before your precious consumer eyes get to see the finished product. If you look at Apples patent filings you'll see very big things are coming down the product pipeline.

 

[silverblack]

However, I think the Apple iPad Pro is really only an iPad XL at the end of the day. It's just bigger. It's not Pro.

Interesting that you never mentioned the use of the Apple Pencil in your post. In my opinion, this is the only thing that sets the iPP apart, aside from being big. With the right apps, the Pencil will open up an entirely new way of using an iPad that we have never experienced before. Yes, not even the Surface Pro will top that. It is because Surface Pro is stuck with a desktop OS, and devs don't bother developing (innovating) apps to take advantage of the pen. For this reason, after 4 generation, they still rely on a trackpad since all the desktop apps need it. This is why the Surface will never be a true tablet, as long as it needs the mouse/trackpad. If that is the case, why bother with a tablet. Just buy a nice (cheaper) laptop.

You, and many, talked about wanting the iPP to running OS X. Let's do a thought experiment. Very few, if not none, mentioned about the Pencil. So let's just toss it away. We put OS X on the iPP. But the touch won't be good enough to handle the precision of desktop interface, and let's give it a nice keyboard and trackpad (with all the latest technology). Then what do you get? A 12" Macbook.

This is why I think Apple did the right thing to stick with iOS, and force the developers to hopefully build more apps using the Pencil, not only for drawing/inking, but use it as a mouse (2nd input additional to touch), and as a keyboard (with handwriting converted to text input). I don't know about you, but I see a lot of opportunities changing how we interact with the iPad. By the way, I do think that the Pencil will be slowly introduced to all other iPads. Hence, the app development with Pencil will be worth it to the devs.

 

[sracer]

LOL. My SP3 is considerably better today in speed, function, and battery life than it was when I bought it a year ago. Apple is the one primarily responsible for slowing down old hardware with software updates these days.

Yep. The Surface line seems to have the exact opposite trend that traditional Windows devices. The Surfaces start out shakey (quality/stability-wise) and get better over time. My Surface 2 is rock-solid more now than it was 2 years when it debuted.

 

[sracer]

I tend to agree with the most of the people here in that this is a Mac-centric site. If you want to discuss Microsoft or other competitor offerings, you should visit a Microsoft site where you would find more like minded people in which to share the Kool-Aid.

I agree! Microsoft Kool-Aid makes a poor chaser for the Apple Kool-Aid.

 

[rambo47]

Microsoft and Apple did a weird flip recently, where Microsoft is the one innovating.

Look at Siri vs Cortana - while Microsoft is adding abilities above and beyond what Siri can do, Apple is updating her jokes..

I must say that Cortana is pretty amazing. Microsoft's implementation of Bluetooth connectivity between phone and car is the best in the business. Cortana is much better at natural voice recognition than Siri too.

 

[ZombiePete]

Not necessarily. We should all be able to discuss Apple products as well as Apple products in relation to other products (like the Surface) without anyone jumping down each other's throats.

Discussion is fine, and it's healthy. But it's snide remarks like this:

But I'm saying is, some of the Apple fans on this site are drinking too much of the APPLE Kool-Aid.

that derail discussions and turn them into pissing contests.

 

[v0lume4]

But it's snide remarks like this that derail discussions and turn them into pissing contests.

I was simply mirroring the Kool-Aid comment from the poster whom I quoted.

 

[Precision Gem]

To me, the iPad should NOT run OS X. If I wanted a portable device with OS X I would buy a Mac Book. I use the iPad when I travel, and want the instant on, instant loading of IOS and it's apps. I don't want to load up Safari and go to the Delta Website, log in to the site, just to check in my flight. With the Delta app on the the iPad this is much faster. The same for many other types of apps. How many people really need a full Photoshop when away from home. How many people who keep bringing up Photoshop actually purchased it and use it? I find that Pixelmator on the iPad and Mac serve all my needs over Photoshop and at $5 on the iPad it's a steal. Procreate on the iPad Pro with the pencil blows away most any other drawing program on any platform.

Cook is right about a hybrid product. I tried out a Surface Pro while my wife was getting a new iPhone in the AT&T store. As a Windows laptop it didn't measure up to my Dell Precision M6700, and as a tablet it didn't make sense. I don't want either Windows or OS X on my tablet, neither makes sense.

Most people away from home on a portable device are doing email, web browsing or other travel related apps. For those few in a minority who are writing code, then a get a proper laptop.

 

[roland.g]

If that is the case, why bother with a tablet. Just buy a nice (cheaper) laptop.

You, and many, talked about wanting the iPP to running OS X. Let's do a thought experiment. Very few, if not none, mentioned about the Pencil. So let's just toss it away. We put OS X on the iPP. But the touch won't be good enough to handle the precision of desktop interface, and let's give it a nice keyboard and trackpad (with all the latest technology). Then what do you get? A 12" MacBook.

I want a Mac OS X iPad Pro that is essentially a tablet and a laptop, connecting to peripherals as the brain with multiple screens to be a mobile dockable desktop. But hybrid in iOS for apps. Best of both. And yes with the keyboard I want it to weigh 2 lbs or so.

I would use touch for iOS and rarely for some OS X stuff. On a Surface Pro I don't see the advantage in the tablet touch interface but in the true portability. It is less cumbersome than a 13" MacBook Air and that is saying a lot. The type cover and arc mouse make it very versatile.

 

[AdonisSMU]

I want a Mac OS X iPad Pro that is essentially a tablet and a laptop, connecting to peripherals as the brain with multiple screens to be a mobile dockable desktop. But hybrid in iOS for apps. Best of both. And yes with the keyboard I want it to weigh 2 lbs or so.

I would use touch for iOS and rarely for some OS X stuff. On a Surface Pro I don't see the advantage in the tablet touch interface but in the true portability. It is less cumbersome than a 13" MacBook Air and that is saying a lot. The type cover and arc mouse make it very versatile.

I'm sorry but that's not true. I think they fall into the same category. The difference is with a macbook everything isn't miniaturized the way it is on the surface. I hate mouses so much and Apple is the only company who makes good trackpads.

 

[maflynn]

[MOD NOTE]
Some off topic posts were removed, please stay on topic, i.e., iPad Pro vs. Surface Pro 4

 

[Piggie]

Over the years, I've said the Pro moniker was used by Apple as a marketing term, but in this case I think its different. I think Apple is directing this product for the professionals. The unveiling of the IPP, the commercials and the remarks by Cook all seem to show that this is first and foremost a product for professional content creators.

We shall just have to see if the BIG companies follow up with the full packages.

A full AutoCAD, full 3D Modelling software, full Photoshop, Full Accounting software packages etc etc.

It will become interesting then.
Apple keep on and on about the POWER of the iPad Pro, well, let's put it to the test with some REAL heavy packages and see how it runs.
I've LOVE to see it run these full programs really well.

 

[whtrbt7]

I really wish Apple would fully spec out their photo and video extensions in iOS so separate apps can be built to do individual things to edit RAWs and JPGs and create sidecar/database files that can be used to edit the photos properly/mathematically/Non-destructively. It would also help if those extensions didn't "bake-in" edits and lower the quality of the final export. Overall, for iOS to be even better than OSX for photo post production we need RAW converters, lens/camera profile correctors, perspective generators, color/white balance correctors, denoising solutions, exposure/dynamic range correctors, HDR processing, gigapixel/panoramic stitching, semi-automated retouch software, liquify software, photo annotation software, and EXIF editors. There are probably more things that I'm missing but that is what comes to mind right off the bat. Video editing needs a resource/source scrubber/manager, color and exposure correction, audio splitter and multi-track mastering, and maybe an exporter that can export in more than one format. I have no doubt in my mind that iOS is capable of being great for these tasks, it's just that it needs to be fleshed out more. There are a good number of apps that are out now that do some of the functions I mentioned but they are currently restricted by the iOS standards which leads them to "bake-in" edits into a JPG.

 

[campyguy]

I need a Windows laptop in the the near future, and I "Went to the Apple Store for the iPad pro, came back home with an iPad Pro" and walked right by a Microsoft Store to get from my car to the Apple Store, and didn't even give it a thought to look in the MS Store. No trolling here!

Parallels Access on my iPad Pro is awesome. Getting to my Exchange Server and Windows workstation is a breeze - it helps that I have UL data with my VZW LTE SIM in the iPad.

As for the Windows laptop, I'll pass on the Surface and spend for a better version of it in the upcoming HP Elite X2. Its serviceability, TB3/USB 3.1, and Wacom tech/stylus sold me.

 

[alecgold]

What makes me wonder, is why there are so few comments where people use the iPad pro as a bigger iPad. Why not use it to read lots of documents, PDFs, comics etc? Reply to some email, chat/slack a bit, check up online on progress coworkers are making etc. It's not just perhaps an ultimate sketch artist tablet, it's also the ultimate manager's tablet. You can easily create some emails on it, read endless business reports and annotate them with the pen, even rewrite chapters.

I have tried a surface pro 4 for just 3 days. Not really enough time to get it all tested, but is enough to get a decent first impression. What I noticed on the surface is that it's not a tablet, but neither a real laptop, and it started to do the jet-engine-thing with the fan too often. Battery life was around 4-5 hours, and it felt a bit heavy/unwieldy for reading. Even though it's not much heavier the the iPad.

And one thing I noted in a lot of discussions, is that the shorter battery life of the surface pro 4 never gets mentioned, but for me even the 10 hours on the iPad (if you get that far)is a bit on the short side. And charging the iPad pro is slow. They should really make a fast charger to top it up. The file finder systems starts to work, it's just enough for me with the iCloud Drive app/goodreader. LTE connectivity is nice, but an extra €40 for 10GB a month. But also, I can keep in the apple Eco system, I already invested heavily. The new Microsoft office is nice on the iPad. Perhaps not a full version, but it's enough for me, keeping corrections and adding notes. Switching apps with a 4 finger swipe, cmd-tab and the split screen are really nice, just opening 2 word documents or 2 excel files are not possible. But opening one in pages and one in word just works as well. It's two spreadsheets that don't work, not enough real-estate. But that is no different from my MacBook Pro.
This won't replace my MacBook Pro with thunderbolt screen, but it's a lot better for my uses then an iPad Air.

Oh, what I don't understand is how people think an iPad with OS X and iOS is not going to be a user interface nightmare.

 

[Mr Bigs]

I would find it annoying going between ecosystems. I feel that's more annoying then a bad keyboard or stand - both of which could actually be remedied by 3rd parties.

I go through different ecosystems regularly and you get used to it. As a matter of fact you get to benefit from their individual strengths.

 

[JonSarge3108]

I had a surface pro 2 for over a year - it never got the use the iPad pro does.