iPad Pro Went to the Apple Store for the iPad Pro, came back home with a Surface Pro

[tdale]

Over the years, I've said the Pro moniker was used by Apple as a marketing term, but in this case I think its different. I think Apple is directing this product for the professionals. The unveiling of the IPP, the commercials and the remarks by Cook all seem to show that this is first and foremost a product for professional content creators.

Which does make it a very niche product. And in that niche, how many will throw away their machine to use an iPad Pro? When on the go, will they take the IPP instead of the rMBP? Hard to think so.

Pity, as you don't need OSX to make the iPad a laptop capable device, you can do that on iOS if Apple removed the shackles that make iOS purely a consumption device to read/watch and play

 

[Voragon]

I use my iPads way more than the surface pro 3...it's stunning but heavy and I don't like the more recent Microsoft operating systems .... I got the iPad pro ... And it is heavy too but not like the Surface ... And it's screan is beautiful. But it really is what a user is comfortable with. Hope everyone enjoys the one they use

 

[brentsg]

I go through different ecosystems regularly and you get used to it. As a matter of fact you get to benefit from their individual strengths.

I use both as well, but it is annoying and inefficient to switch between main OS. When I move to Windows as a primary OS, I'll have to purchase additional licenses for VMWare as well as MS Office. I'll also have to find replacement apps for other things like Carbon Copy Cloner and Adium.. plus many others.

 

[maflynn]

Which does make it a very niche product. And in that niche, how many will throw away their machine to use an iPad Pro? When on the go, will they take the IPP instead of the rMBP? Hard to think so.

Given price, I think it may turn out to be a niche product. Only time will tell

I had a surface pro 2 for over a year - it never got the use the iPad pro does.

To be fair, MS didn't fully hit their Surface Pro stride until the SP3 hit the streets. Its not a perfect machine, and the SP4 improved on the SP3's short comings. What I like about the SP4 is its performance. My SP3 throttles down and its performance is no where near where I thought it was going to be. I'm happy with it, don't get me wrong. Most of the software I use, the SP3 is more then adequate, and I don't think its worth the cost of upgrading to the SP4.

I'm opposite, between my iPhone 6+ and the SP3, my iPad is collecting dust.

 

[aevan]

Microsoft and Apple did a weird flip recently, where Microsoft is the one innovating.

You confuse innovation with adding features.

 

[maflynn]

You confuse innovation with adding features.

That might have been the case, years ago, but now we see apple actually copying MS, i.e., Surface Pro is very popular and now Apple has a 12" tablet with a stylus and type-cover like keyboard.

I'd say in a number of ways apple is the one largely adding features and not innovating but playing it safe. While there are exceptions, including the apple watch. Much of what we see coming from Cupertino are products that are thinner

 

[burgman]

You confuse innovation with adding features.

There was a time when it was obvious which company was the innovator, Not anymore. Typing this on my new Surface Book, I voted with my wallet. I'm down to a 6S plus, iPad Air 2 that is in a drawer, and time capsule as my only Apple devices. That's very different than the last ten years. I just bought a used Nexus 6 and am using it on Google Fi, a very nice experience so far. I could easily drop iPhone and move to the Nexus, which suprised the heck out of me.

 

[Night Spring]

That might have been the case, years ago, but now we see apple actually copying MS, i.e., Surface Pro is very popular and now Apple has a 12" tablet with a stylus and type-cover like keyboard.

The keyboard does strike me as copycat, but the Pencil seems very different from Microsoft's stylus.

And I've seen both the Surface 4 and iPad Pro in stores, and the iPP strikes me as being more comfortable to hold, whereas the Surface feels like something intended to be used at a desk.

I do agree that Microsft has upped the ante on being innovative recently, but I don't think Apple has become any less innovative. They only make things thinner? What about Force Touch on the iPhone?

 

[silverblack]

Need something to write notes with, and both devices will deliver my needs. It is for work so cost is not an issue.

At the end, I went for the one shipped with a pen in the box, over the other one that requires the buyers to go on a treasure hunt and beg for one.

 

[aneftp]

It usually takes Microsoft 3 attempts to get a product right. Surface pro 3 was a winner.

And surface pro 4 is more of a refinement and that's why I went with it. I have had all iPad 1-iPad air 2. Skipping iPad pro.

I just posted link for macrumors that iPad pro was on sale at target. But I tell my friends if they have an iPad Air 2 not to upgrade. But iPad pro is definitely a buy for those with iPad Air or older iPads especially at a sale price.

Now reason I went with surface pro 4. I didn't feel iPad pro offered much performance difference for me (key word being me). It's not perfect. One of annoyances is when it's in tablet mode Windows should be smarter to know when to pop up the virtual keyboard when I click on the internet browser. I know there are options inside Windows for keyboard. But it needs to be more automatic and smarter.

It's definitely heavily. But 1.6/7 pounds isn't much and you get use to it. And it's so much more powerful. Can do real computer stuff. Combine with on sale $29.99 Microsoft wireless adapter. I can beam kodi easily. Of course I am electronics junkie so have minix neo h plus s812 4K box and Amazon Fire as well.

 

[maflynn]

The keyboard does strike me as copycat, but the Pencil seems very different from Microsoft's stylus.

How is the pencil different? I think Apple did a good job with it, by recognizing angles, and having different tips, but overall at its most basic function, its the same product - a device used for writing, drawing.

 

[Night Spring]

How is the pencil different? I think Apple did a good job with it, by recognizing angles, and having different tips, but overall at its most basic function, its the same product - a device used for writing, drawing.

Same function, but different technology. Microsoft's stylus lagged when I tried drawing with it at the store. Apple's Pencil has no lag.

 

[maflynn]

Different tech, I'll give you that. From the reviews I've read comparing both, there is a slight almost imperceptible difference and the iPad Pro being on the faster one. I think with the SP4, you get the eraser which is better, and overall with my SP3, I find it fine but then I don't use it for drawing.

Back to your original statement, the Pencil is faster and has different technology, but I would qualify it as being very different since it functions the same way.

 

[David58117]

Same function, but different technology. Microsoft's stylus lagged when I tried drawing with it at the store. Apple's Pencil has no lag.

Probably demo unit effect...same reason MacBook pros demo units can be laggy.

Having owned and used both, I think they're pretty similar.

 

[David58117]

You confuse innovation with adding features.

You mean adding jokes to Siri is "innovating" now, when she doesn't do a lot of what Cortana does?

Never mind Microsoft being on their fourth iteration of their "iPad Pro" while apple is playing catch up. Also never mind the full developer apps people are complaining about lacking from the App Store, already being used on the Microsoft products. M

There's no way Apple is innovating here. Microsoft is very clearly the ones doing so - and they're doing so very well.

 

[Night Spring]

Different tech, I'll give you that. From the reviews I've read comparing both, there is a slight almost imperceptible difference and the iPad Pro being on the faster one. I think with the SP4, you get the eraser which is better, and overall with my SP3, I find it fine but then I don't use it for drawing.

Back to your original statement, the Pencil is faster and has different technology, but I would qualify it as being very different since it functions the same way.

You were using the Pencil as an example of Apple not being innovative, but coming up with a different technology is innovative. Whether or not that innovation makes much of a difference, I'm not sure, as I'm not an artist myself.

 

[aevan]

You mean adding jokes to Siri is "innovating" now, when she doesn't do a lot of what Cortana does?

Never mind Microsoft being on their fourth iteration of their "iPad Pro" while apple is playing catch up. Also never mind the full developer apps people are complaining about lacking from the App Store, already being used on the Microsoft products. M

There's no way Apple is innovating here. Microsoft is very clearly the ones doing so - and they're doing so very well.

Fourth iteration and their pen tech is still inadequate for art. Apple nails it in their first attempt. Then matches its performance with a thinner, lighter, passively-cooled tablet with longer battery life, a better screen and better sound. When you look at the tech inside, almost every component has some smart innovation to make it more useful. A9X is innovative. The screen is innovative. The pen is innovative. Heck, even the Smart Connector is innovative. No gimmicks. They just invented a way to make something super-thin and light (and for good reason, if you plan on using it everywhere) and have a real friggin pencil that works like a real art tool (instead of making something that is worse than an entry-level Wacom stylus from 5 years ago). Yes, it doesn't have an eraser. Lack of innovation!

What Microsoft did is, basically, make the same tablet they made years ago, only better because of general advancements in tech. They get better performance then last year's models because of Skylake chips (made by Intel, not Microsoft), they got more pressure levels into the stylus, etc. Don't get me wrong - Surfaces are great machines. I'm intentionally downplaying Microsoft's achievement here - but, honestly, they are actually looking more like Apple then ever. They are not innovating, they are iterating and improving quality.

Microsoft is my second favorite tech company. But don't call Surfaces "innovation" - they are great, iterative products, but that's it. And please, really, please - just don't say Windows 10 is innovative. Just.... no.

Also, one more thing - Apple is doing what it always did. If you think it's not innovative - fine. But it's no less innovative than it was 2, 5 or 10 years ago. They follow the same modus operandi and they are, basically, the same.

 

[sracer]

Fourth iteration and their pen tech is still inadequate for art. Apple nails it in their first attempt. Then matches its performance with a thinner, lighter, passively-cooled tablet with longer battery life, a better screen and better sound. When you look at the tech inside, almost every component has some smart innovation to make it more useful. A9X is innovative. The screen is innovative. The pen is innovative. Heck, even the Smart Connector is innovative. No gimmicks. They just invented a way to make something super-thin and light (and for good reason, if you plan on using it everywhere) and have a real friggin pencil that works like a real art tool (instead of making something that is worse than an entry-level Wacom stylus from 5 years ago). Yes, it doesn't have an eraser. Lack of innovation!

What Microsoft did is, basically, make the same tablet they made years ago, only better because of general advancements in tech. They get better performance then last year's models because of Skylake chips (made by Intel, not Microsoft), they got more pressure levels into the stylus, etc. Don't get me wrong - Surfaces are great machines. I'm intentionally downplaying Microsoft's achievement here - but, honestly, they are actually looking more like Apple then ever. They are not innovating, they are iterating and improving quality.

Microsoft is my second favorite tech company. But don't call Surfaces "innovation" - they are great, iterative products, but that's it. And please, really, please - just don't say Windows 10 is innovative. Just.... no.

Also, one more thing - Apple is doing what it always did. If you think it's not innovative - fine. But it's no less innovative than it was 2, 5 or 10 years ago. They follow the same modus operandi and they are, basically, the same.

I have to agree. Microsoft went "back to the future" with the Surface line... slapping together a desktop OS with a tablet. That is a 1999/2000 use case scenario. Sure the Surface is faster, thinner, and lighter, but essential use case is the same. And so is the frustration for me in using a desktop UI with a touchscreen.

One reason why I was (and still am) a fan of the Surface RT/2 and Windows RT was because it was an attempt to get a touch-optimized UI within the Windows family. The quantity of quality apps never materialized which severely hampered (and still hampers) the Windows ecosystem.

 

[aevan]

Different tech, I'll give you that. From the reviews I've read comparing both, there is a slight almost imperceptible difference and the iPad Pro being on the faster one. I think with the SP4, you get the eraser which is better, and overall with my SP3, I find it fine but then I don't use it for drawing.

Depends on the usage. For notes - they are similar. For art - it's all about the feel and control. It's like saying that Winsor and Newton brushes are the same as the brush my dad uses to apply glue when fixing things because they both seem to do the same thing when you dip them in ink.

I haven't tried the Pencil yet - thanks for the great rollout Apple! - but the artists that I follow compare it to Cintiq pens in quality and often even say it's better. I have used the Surface 4 Pen on a Surface 4 and I can tell you that it doesn't compare to a Cintiq. Can you do art on it? Of course. But that's not the point - people make great art even with their fingers.

When I finally get my Pencil I will be able to judge for myself, but based on what I read, Apple nailed it and Microsoft just barely "yeah-I-guess-you-can-draw-on-it" did it. It's not the same.

 

[ZombiePete]

I have to agree. Microsoft went "back to the future" with the Surface line... slapping together a desktop OS with a tablet. That is a 1999/2000 use case scenario. Sure the Surface is faster, thinner, and lighter, but essential use case is the same. And so is the frustration for me in using a desktop UI with a touchscreen.

One reason why I was (and still am) a fan of the Surface RT/2 and Windows RT was because it was an attempt to get a touch-optimized UI within the Windows family. The quantity of quality apps never materialized which severely hampered (and still hampers) the Windows ecosystem.

I agree; the "innovation" on Apple's part in this regard is building iOS up into more than just a "phone" operating system. An OS already touch optimized from the ground up has an advantage over a desktop OS in a lot of ways.

I'm not saying that one is better than the other objectively, but for the individual one is absolutely going to suit their needs better. In the long run, if iOS continues to evolve along with the fantastic hardware package that is the iPad Pro, in a few years people may actually be giving up their traditional computing ideas and going with something like iOS as their primary OS. Windows, IMO, represents a slowly dying paradigm in the consumer electronics field. So does OSX, for that matter, which is why I don't believe that we'll ever see an OSX tablet. Better to focus on improving the capabilities of iOS than try and bastardize OSX, IMO.

 

[Codeseven]

I agree; the "innovation" on Apple's part in this regard is building iOS up into more than just a "phone" operating system. An OS already touch optimized from the ground up has an advantage over a desktop OS in a lot of ways.

I'm not saying that one is better than the other objectively, but for the individual one is absolutely going to suit their needs better. In the long run, if iOS continues to evolve along with the fantastic hardware package that is the iPad Pro, in a few years people may actually be giving up their traditional computing ideas and going with something like iOS as their primary OS. Windows, IMO, represents a slowly dying paradigm in the consumer electronics field. So does OSX, for that matter, which is why I don't believe that we'll ever see an OSX tablet. Better to focus on improving the capabilities of iOS than try and bastardize OSX, IMO.

Totally agree.

There's no doubt that iOS is NOT done evolving by a long shot. Operating system updates will continually refine and build upon itself to give more and more functionality. The iOS you see and experience today is NOT the iOS that Apple envisions it will become. Cook has made it clear that Apple has a direction, good or bad, that they're focusing on and as far as they're concerned, the future of computing is Mobility, which IS iOS and not OS X.

This first itineration of iPad Pro is technically amazing for what can be done hardware wise. It's only held back by it's 'current' operating system and available software apps which will change in the near future and it only stands to get better as iOS evolves and 'pro' level apps catch up to it's capabilities.

 

[maflynn]

You were using the Pencil as an example of Apple not being innovative, but coming up with a different technology is innovative. Whether or not that innovation makes much of a difference, I'm not sure, as I'm not an artist myself.

Different does not equate innovation. They did improve it, but I'm not sold that its a great example of apple's innovation.

 

[alecgold]

One of the biggest future improvements I saw in Windows 10, was the ability to port iOS and Android apps quick and easy to windows 10, run windows 10 on a laptop, desktop, tablet or phone. A few days ago I read Astoria isn't going to happen, or at least not in the foreseeable future. This would have been a serious competition to Apple and Google, but as it is, laptops and tablets are not going to merge anytime soon.

So you buy a Surface 4 laptop, which can act a bit like a tablet (but without apps, lesser battery-life, a bit clunky, a fan to cool it)
Or you buy a iPad Pro tablet, which can act a bit like a laptop (but without the laptop full-function programs, lesser connectivity, CPU that is just not as powerful).

I think iOS will grow in future years more towards productivity, there is a lots of room for improvement.
I hope windows will grow in future years more towards a truly mobile device without loosing it's laptop features.

I see surface 4 users more producing serious stuff, programming, drawing, rendering, using CMS etc.

The odd thing about the iPad Pro is that people who can do with an iPad Air 2 in daily life, are not spending twice as much on a iPP, unless there is a good reason. A lot of people, who use an iPA as their primary device, are people that really like the good, easy going tablet experience, have no difficult things to do (just email, web surfing, photo's, bit of documents and rarely printing) and use it privately. Are you going to spend twice the money or more on an iPP? Unlikely.
So the most likely users are either artists who like to sketch (I've read the pencil experience is great) and then continue on a laptop/desktop. Or managers who don't produce that much, just write some emails, use slack, write some documents, read spreadsheets and read lot's of documents and PDF's.

I noticed that reading long, complicated documents on an iPA is suboptimal. Either you zoom and loose overview/swipe a lot around, or the letters are getting impossible small. I now have the iPP 7 days and noticed how much easier it is to read old documents that have been (quite badly) scanned into PDF. How much easier / less headache / more overview and insight it gives me. I just can't stop using my MBP 13" and Thunderbolt screen, but if I need to replace my MBP, it will become a 15" and the iPP will get an even bigger part of the work.

 

[DNichter]

One is a good tablet, one is a good laptop. They shouldn't be compared as often as they are. Take them for what they are.

 

[double329]

I had SP3 with WIn10 and I got rid off. My issue with SP3 was resolution scaling. Not all application scaled properly with the high resolution screen and small screen size. RDP for example, it was horrible. It's just wierd, not quite table, too much res for small screen laptop. The SP3 was nice a fast. But, apps for tablet mode is just isn't there.
I hope SF4 is different. If I want laptop, I would probably go with the actual laptop and then carry iPad Air if Ineed tablet. The SP/SB is just want to be too many things in one and neither one is good. I am not saying iPad Pro is, but at least iPad Pro want to be just tablet.