It was discontinued because the 15" rMB"P" has more resolution on paper, while being smaller.
It can come back with retina.
The problem is that it will probably be just another MBA.
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What are the chances will bring back the 17" MBP?
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It was discontinued because the 15" rMB"P" has more resolution on paper, while being smaller.
It can come back with retina.
The problem is that it will probably be just another MBA.
It can come back with a built-in microwave oven, if Apple wants to give it one. But they don't, and it isn't.
It was discontinued because it didn't sell.
It won't be coming back for exactly the same reason.
If the problem had been that it didn't sell before the rMB"P" was released, it would have been discontinued before that.
im sorrrrrry i had a bad day found out my samsung screen has a yellow faint tint on the left corner **** meee
Apple's 17" MBP is (excluding thickness) physically about as big as a 16" laptop from every other laptop OEM. It might be too big to be called a laptop, but most people use the words "laptop" and "notebook" so interchangeably these days it doesn't really matter.
Also, to OP: the 17" isn't coming back. Like the stuff I regularly listen to, it's a niche of a niche - the demand simply is not sufficient enough to justify keeping the 17" in production.
I know that I was not the one you quoted, but I still feel addressed. First, let me make something clear. I am an 1.92m tall amateur boxer and I can ensure you that I am in no way 'weak'. However, if I want physical exercise, I go to the gym. I don't need to carry any additional weight during my day - actually, I'd rather avoid it. I am able to notice the 0.5 kg difference of going from cMBP to rMBP - it results in considerably less strain on my back. Which is a quality of life improvement. I am sure that you are able to handle the 17" model. Almost everyone is. Let me ensure you though, if you actually try cycling with a 3kg laptop as opposed to a 2kg laptop on your back - you will notice the difference very quickly.
If you for some reason are attached to the physical size of your computer - I am sure you have your reasons. But please stop trying to sell it as being a better machine. The rMBP trumps it in every regard, leaving beside the questionable issue of text readability at max resolution. Again, I can understand that some people would be interested in a beefier workstation with better internals, but the history of 17" MBP was the computer whose only distinguishable feature was higher display resolution. I see no place for such a machine in current Apple's lineup, which already has a high-res display at 15".
Now, a 17" machine with a workstation GPU, more ports etc., that could be really a MacBook Pro - but who would be interested in a machine like that? Very few people. A dual-CPU machine would be probably more interesting, but there is no multi-CPU laptop tech that I am aware of
I know that I was not the one you quoted, but I still feel addressed. First, let me make something clear. I am an 1.92m tall amateur boxer and I can ensure you that I am in no way 'weak'. However, if I want physical exercise, I go to the gym. I don't need to carry any additional weight during my day - actually, I'd rather avoid it. I am able to notice the 0.5 kg difference of going from cMBP to rMBP - it results in considerably less strain on my back. Which is a quality of life improvement. I am sure that you are able to handle the 17" model. Almost everyone is. Let me ensure you though, if you actually try cycling with a 3kg laptop as opposed to a 2kg laptop on your back - you will notice the difference very quickly.
If you for some reason are attached to the physical size of your computer - I am sure you have your reasons. But please stop trying to sell it as being a better machine. The rMBP trumps it in every regard, leaving beside the questionable issue of text readability at max resolution. Again, I can understand that some people would be interested in a beefier workstation with better internals, but the history of 17" MBP was the computer whose only distinguishable feature was higher display resolution. I see no place for such a machine in current Apple's lineup, which already has a high-res display at 15".
Now, a 17" machine with a workstation GPU, more ports etc., that could be really a MacBook Pro - but who would be interested in a machine like that? Very few people. A dual-CPU machine would be probably more interesting, but there is no multi-CPU laptop tech that I am aware of
So...a 1lbs difference is a big deal to you? What kind of boxer are you? And the rMBP certainly does NOT trump it in every regard. It doesn't trump it in physical screen size, which is valuable to a lot of professionals. It also doesn't trump it in sound quality, hard drive capacity, nor upgradeability. I have nearly 2 TB in my 17" MBP, half of which is SSD. The rMBP tops out at 768GB.
Who would be interested in a workstation-class 17" notebook? Me, and every single person I work with on a day to day basis who also cycle to work with their 17" MBPs. And I have cycled with both the 15" and 17" 10 miles round trip on my commute. I tried the rMBP, but found it wanting. Even then, I didn't notice the difference. The difference in weight is equivalent to a bottle of water and a hard drive (which I would have to carry an additional one of to make up for the rMBP's flaccid shortcomings in that department) or whether I decide to ride my carbon bike to work that morning, or my aluminum bike. If you notice a difference, that's your problem, but I've got other things to worry about than a 1 kg difference between an inferior laptop and a superior one like that which I carry every day. Maybe you should see a specialist about your back issues? Or perhaps hire a 3rd world slave boy to carry your stuff around for you?
Please stop saying the 17" is too big, or too cumbersome or unwieldy. It's the weakest argument you people have and makes you look like a weak, anemic child.
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CaptMorgan...
As a LONG time user of the 17" solely...both for business and pleasure (I run a small business and the Macs are our foundation)...I can't tell you how fond I am/was of them. It's all I used and we still have a pair in the systems...however, I did jump into the 15" rMBP. Primarily for my wife, our bookkeeper and client liaison. I couldn't believe it. I went out a month later and bought one for myself and I'm completely sold. From the Powerbooks forward, I've only owned 17"'ers. (?) --- however, after picking up the 15" with the 768GB SSD...and I do understand your storage woes. I was on the cutting edge years back pulling my ODD and supplementing my internal storage....the Thunderbolt and USB3 connectivity has solved any issues I have. As drive sizes have dropped...small, 1.5-2TB drives are a bargain, don't require a power supply and only weigh a few ounces...this is it. I'm never going back....unless Apple DOES indeed to decide to release a High Rez 17"
I think when 4k monitors become a bit more mainstream...I can see Apple re-releasing the 17" with a true 4k 'retina' display for the workstation and creative crowd. The Mac Pro has never been a big money maker for them either...and this new iteration looks to be damned spendy. I can see Apple bringing it back someday, in the right circumstances.
That said. It doesn't matter to me. The new 15" rMBP is everything I had in our 17s and much MUCH more. I can't tell you how nice the text is. Every time I open it...I'm happy. It's fast as hell...extremely light, the display is phenomenal and the I/O options with SD/HDMI Thunderbolt x 2 and USB3 alone make the leap a good one for me. I couldn't for the life of me get my USB3 express card to work from OWC. Transfer rates through that card were slower than my USB2 ports....I do understand your love for the real estate. It was my main concern. But the 15", I routinely run @ 1920x1200....actually 3840x2400 and it's absolutely stunning. NO lag, no issues with storage (again, a WD 1.5 TB USB3 drive is a hundred bucks...and takes up no room), and the ability to see every pixel in my canvas editing 1080p while the UI 'around' the canvas is pixel doubled magic for stunning clarity.
Honestly...one of the easiest tests for me was the 'App Store'. Open it in your 17" (Which is right up there as one of the highest, non-retina PPI displays with the 11" Air)...and side by side with a 15" rMBP. The difference is night and day. While I'm at a complete loss why Apple doesn't allow zoom or 'text enlargement' in the App Store, it's irrelevant on the rMBP. Completely readable whatever---9 or 10 point text they use. It's a pretty awesome experience.
I'm not trying to sell you on them. As I mentioned, I still own a pair of 2011 17" MBPs....both with dual drives SSD/HDD on the ODD side...I much, MUCH prefer to work on the rMBP.
Obvioiusly...and as always YMMV
I still have an old 17" Powerbook I use because of the larger PCIMCA slot. It allows the proprietary P2 cards from Panasonic to be offloaded in the field by simply plugging them in! The newer ExpressCard slots, other than for us adding SATA was really worthless....especially compared now with Thunderbolt x 2 and USB3....as well as HDMI.
J
PS...forgot to mention, the rMBP absolutely Destroys the 17" in sound quality. This compared to the latest 2011 2.4Ghz machine (17") and the 2012 2.7/16/768 rMBP. The new retinas added a small sub and did something very cool with the speakers that Bose is now suing them over....seriously though, no comparison. While you're right---the 17" model ALWAYS laid waste to the rest of the lineup, the rMBP takes 'internal' sound to a new level.
As a LONG time user of the 17" solely...both for business and pleasure (I run a small business and the Macs are our foundation)...I can't tell you how fond I am/was of them. It's all I used and we still have a pair in the systems...however, I did jump into the 15" rMBP. Primarily for my wife, our bookkeeper and client liaison. I couldn't believe it. I went out a month later and bought one for myself and I'm completely sold. From the Powerbooks forward, I've only owned 17"'ers. (?) --- however, after picking up the 15" with the 768GB SSD...and I do understand your storage woes. I was on the cutting edge years back pulling my ODD and supplementing my internal storage....the Thunderbolt and USB3 connectivity has solved any issues I have. As drive sizes have dropped...small, 1.5-2TB drives are a bargain, don't require a power supply and only weigh a few ounces...this is it. I'm never going back....unless Apple DOES indeed to decide to release a High Rez 17"
I think when 4k monitors become a bit more mainstream...I can see Apple re-releasing the 17" with a true 4k 'retina' display for the workstation and creative crowd. The Mac Pro has never been a big money maker for them either...and this new iteration looks to be damned spendy. I can see Apple bringing it back someday, in the right circumstances.
That said. It doesn't matter to me. The new 15" rMBP is everything I had in our 17s and much MUCH more. I can't tell you how nice the text is. Every time I open it...I'm happy. It's fast as hell...extremely light, the display is phenomenal and the I/O options with SD/HDMI Thunderbolt x 2 and USB3 alone make the leap a good one for me. I couldn't for the life of me get my USB3 express card to work from OWC. Transfer rates through that card were slower than my USB2 ports....I do understand your love for the real estate. It was my main concern. But the 15", I routinely run @ 1920x1200....actually 3840x2400 and it's absolutely stunning. NO lag, no issues with storage (again, a WD 1.5 TB USB3 drive is a hundred bucks...and takes up no room), and the ability to see every pixel in my canvas editing 1080p while the UI 'around' the canvas is pixel doubled magic for stunning clarity.
Honestly...one of the easiest tests for me was the 'App Store'. Open it in your 17" (Which is right up there as one of the highest, non-retina PPI displays with the 11" Air)...and side by side with a 15" rMBP. The difference is night and day. While I'm at a complete loss why Apple doesn't allow zoom or 'text enlargement' in the App Store, it's irrelevant on the rMBP. Completely readable whatever---9 or 10 point text they use. It's a pretty awesome experience.
I'm not trying to sell you on them. As I mentioned, I still own a pair of 2011 17" MBPs....both with dual drives SSD/HDD on the ODD side...I much, MUCH prefer to work on the rMBP.
Obvioiusly...and as always YMMV
I still have an old 17" Powerbook I use because of the larger PCIMCA slot. It allows the proprietary P2 cards from Panasonic to be offloaded in the field by simply plugging them in! The newer ExpressCard slots, other than for us adding SATA was really worthless....especially compared now with Thunderbolt x 2 and USB3....as well as HDMI.
J
PS...forgot to mention, the rMBP absolutely Destroys the 17" in sound quality. This compared to the latest 2011 2.4Ghz machine (17") and the 2012 2.7/16/768 rMBP. The new retinas added a small sub and did something very cool with the speakers that Bose is now suing them over
....seriously though, no comparison. While you're right---the 17" model ALWAYS laid waste to the rest of the lineup, the rMBP takes 'internal' sound to a new level.
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That's cute, but we'll just have to agree to disagree. All the post-production people I work with have 17"s and won't trade them until they stop working. We'll load up new Mac Pros in our backpacks to compensate before we ditch our 17" MBPs. I also spend way more time editing video than reading text, so the retina doesn't do anything for me but waste GPU power that could be directed elsewhere. We also are a full Thunderbolt/eSATA house, so no need for USB 3 here. And while having a full 1080p picture on your monitor is great in theory, 1) we find that we'd rather have more real estate dedicated to the actual timeline workspace, and 2) We don't use FCP X. I also don't see the App Store, something I open once a month maybe, as a selling point. Sorry.
PS...forgot to mention, the rMBP absolutely Destroys the 17" in sound quality. This compared to the latest 2011 2.4Ghz machine (17") and the 2012 2.7/16/768 rMBP. The new retinas added a small sub and did something very cool with the speakers that Bose is now suing them over
You may want to get your ears checked. As someone who's owned a retina and compared dynamic range and overall sound quality directly between the 2 MacBook Pros...side by side, I think you're misinterpreting what you're hearing. There is no way that the retina has as much range, volume, and throw as the 17" MBP. Sorry, you may think so, but I think you're diluting yourself. That being said, no real professional bases their mix on a set of laptop speakers, we use real monitors for that. But if I'm trying to play music or watch a movie in my hotel room with just my laptop, the 17" obliterates the rMBP.
The more people that feedback to that they want/need the 17" back the better. No point being silent and wishing, make your voice and want list heard
Do it. You know you want to.
http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html
Do it. You know you want to.
http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html
I am sad too for you.
I'm sad that you think you need drugs to feel thoughtful.
Not negative in the least. It was discontinued over a year ago for very good reasons. It's ludicrous to imagine they'll bring it back.
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I'm sad now because I can't afford the same drugs you can.
I'm sad that you think you need drugs to feel thoughtful.
If Apple delayed the release of the 17" unibody back in 08, then it's highly probable that they will re-release it soon.
Let's not forget that the retina is a fresh new product / idea for the whole computer industry (not just Apple), so it makes perfect sense if they tested the first generations out on the more "mainstream" and "sellable" versions, such as the 15" and 13". There's also the factor of having to get rid of the first generation / rev A issues before launching a 17" flagship product for the retina line.
Again, the retina line is technically only a generation old in terms of specs. It's still in its infancy and by the looks of it, the issues still have to be re-analyzed and solved.
For the niche of a niche market, a next generation 17" rmbp with bugs is definitely unacceptable and will just stain Apple's integrity for the prosumer market. Apple is very keen with the technologies and products it offers, plus the fact that their laptops - even the base models can last longer than any laptop brand i know of, means that the 17" can withstand the test of time until its next iteration. It doesnt mean that it's Sandy Bridge that it will perform poorly against the new models. IT CAN, and the passionate 17" community here is its own testimony.
Cheers,
Greg
Let's not forget that the retina is a fresh new product / idea for the whole computer industry (not just Apple), so it makes perfect sense if they tested the first generations out on the more "mainstream" and "sellable" versions, such as the 15" and 13". There's also the factor of having to get rid of the first generation / rev A issues before launching a 17" flagship product for the retina line.
Again, the retina line is technically only a generation old in terms of specs. It's still in its infancy and by the looks of it, the issues still have to be re-analyzed and solved.
For the niche of a niche market, a next generation 17" rmbp with bugs is definitely unacceptable and will just stain Apple's integrity for the prosumer market. Apple is very keen with the technologies and products it offers, plus the fact that their laptops - even the base models can last longer than any laptop brand i know of, means that the 17" can withstand the test of time until its next iteration. It doesnt mean that it's Sandy Bridge that it will perform poorly against the new models. IT CAN, and the passionate 17" community here is its own testimony.
Cheers,
Greg
First, let me say that I do not approve of your tone, even though I find your vain attempts to humiliate your discussion partners mildly amusing.
Now to your post.
Its the weight of two printed books. If you want to carry that kind of stuff around that's your problem...
As I already mentioned, this is an argument I don't buy. Maybe for people with weak eyesight.
If you care about sound quality that much, you will have good earphones anyway. Hard drive capacity is a good point, but that is the nature of SSD-based machines. Of course, if your line of work involves handling large data, then I see how this can be an annoyance to you. Upgradeability... that word again 16GB RAM is the maximal amount you will be able to tup in those laptops... and storage can be expanded externally.
Well, then let's get constructive here. What are the features you would want of a workstation-class notebook? The only thing that comes to my mind is a workstation GPU and maybe a more generous internal storage space. Workstation GPUs only make sense to people who work with 3D graphics, and if their work is that intensive, they will get a proper desktop based workstation instead. You seem to be an audio professional, so that feature will be completely pointless for you.
This was not my argument My argument was that there is not a single thing that 17" model does which would put it above the current 15" lineup. Storage can be an issue of course for some people, but its not specific to this debate - its rather part of the general classical vs all-SSD architecture debate. I see this debate slowly dying once Apple rolls out its PCI-e SSDs in all models - which will give you storage speeds which are impossible to achieve with a standard SATA-3 drive.
Now to your post.
Its the weight of two printed books. If you want to carry that kind of stuff around that's your problem...
As I already mentioned, this is an argument I don't buy. Maybe for people with weak eyesight.
If you care about sound quality that much, you will have good earphones anyway. Hard drive capacity is a good point, but that is the nature of SSD-based machines. Of course, if your line of work involves handling large data, then I see how this can be an annoyance to you. Upgradeability... that word again
16GB RAM is the maximal amount you will be able to tup in those laptops... and storage can be expanded externally. Well, then let's get constructive here. What are the features you would want of a workstation-class notebook? The only thing that comes to my mind is a workstation GPU and maybe a more generous internal storage space. Workstation GPUs only make sense to people who work with 3D graphics, and if their work is that intensive, they will get a proper desktop based workstation instead. You seem to be an audio professional, so that feature will be completely pointless for you.
This was not my argument
My argument was that there is not a single thing that 17" model does which would put it above the current 15" lineup. Storage can be an issue of course for some people, but its not specific to this debate - its rather part of the general classical vs all-SSD architecture debate. I see this debate slowly dying once Apple rolls out its PCI-e SSDs in all models - which will give you storage speeds which are impossible to achieve with a standard SATA-3 drive.First, let me say that I do not approve of your tone, even though I find your vain attempts to humiliate your discussion partners mildly amusing.
Now to your post.
Its the weight of two printed books. If you want to carry that kind of stuff around that's your problem...
As I already mentioned, this is an argument I don't buy. Maybe for people with weak eyesight.
If you care about sound quality that much, you will have good earphones anyway. Hard drive capacity is a good point, but that is the nature of SSD-based machines. Of course, if your line of work involves handling large data, then I see how this can be an annoyance to you. Upgradeability... that word again
Well, then let's get constructive here. What are the features you would want of a workstation-class notebook? The only thing that comes to my mind is a workstation GPU and maybe a more generous internal storage space. Workstation GPUs only make sense to people who work with 3D graphics, and if their work is that intensive, they will get a proper desktop based workstation instead. You seem to be an audio professional, so that feature will be completely pointless for you.
This was not my argument
very well said
Yes and they're not fighting that statement. Because it only was for some people, Apple didn't make enough profit so they stopped producing them. Simple as that.
Macbook Air made ordinary Macbooks redundant, and thus the latter was discontinued.
Yeah, I know that, but I was a die hard fan of the plastic Macbook. It was so classy yet so powerfull laptop for a consumer. Of course, with it discontinued I upgraded to an i5 Macbook Pro but kept the Macbook as a secondary or backup machine. I don't like the Air because it's under clocked and the 11" is way to small for me.
For the same 999$ the macbook had a better cpu (this was back in 2010 when the core2duo was still around) and a bigger display and the useful but obsolete SuperDrive. Of course It wasn't as thin as an Macbook Air.
Exactly. They were made for Pros. As in Macbook Pro. Get it?
I do.
Not negative in the least. It was discontinued over a year ago for very good reasons. It's ludicrous to imagine they'll bring it back.
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I'm sad now because I can't afford the same drugs you can.
A lady can dream and hope.
You're wrong. And that's cool. The rMBP sounds better than the 17" (again, I own Both and have been professionally involved in audio production for 22 years, video for 15). As well....if you're an 'all thunderbolt' workflow, wouldn't it make sense to have two thunderbolt ports vs 1? USB3 gotcha. You don't need it....and when it comes to our grading and actual production we ARE hooked up externally both to displays and sound systems. As well....a whole lot more support for the GPU in the Adobe suite with the nVidia card.
If you're TRULY working in a production house, WHY are you using a laptop? Ours is a mixture of 8 MacPros and a pair of Dells.
Take it on the run for a client and we DO use our laptops. In house...workstation only.
Thanks though for your 'cute' comment. I've worked with History, A&E, Discovery and Travel channels.....as you may have noticed, there's a sh##ton of Alaska programming on the air right now and I've been lucky enough to work steady for 7 years in post production (video) and live music production (22 years now).
IOW...I'm speaking from experience. Not heresy and what I've 'read' on the Internet.
I'm blown away with you guys' consensus on the rMBP sound. Louder doesn't mean better.
J
So basically all the improvements the rMBP bring aren't as good as a 1.6" (10%) bigger screen diagonal?
I would understand if we were comparing a 15.4" laptop to a 30" external monitor, but a 10% difference?
The real estate thing seems like a poor argument given that you can set the rMBP in native 2880x1800 on any software you want and get both a 1:1 1080p preview that doesn't fill the whole screen and more space for your timelines and such. Sure the text is tiny but from my experience having tiny text in exchange for a lot of screen estate and 1:1 1080p preview is well worth it.
And that's just for the resolution/screen size part. We could talk about the better color gamut, increased portability and increased performance as well.
not as
Not as hilarious as your contribution. Someone is amused and laughing. That is a good sign.
No one knows for sure why the late 17" MBP didn't get a refresh. As long as Apple hasn't made any official statement, no one will ever know. We knew very well and saw it coming for the MacBooks, their prices went down, down, down, we saw it coming. The price of the 17"MBP kept on climbing with tiny processor speeds then suddenly the release of the retina, obviously they didn't want to take the HUGE risk, so they thought if they get away with 15inch, eventually they'll produce the 13inch, because they are still desperate to compete with PC ultra-books. The death of Jobs meant no more innovation for the 17" MBP, that is my speculation. Apple now only wants to please the IOS market, it was a miracle they refreshed the MacPro. So, why wouldn't they surprise us with the 17"MBP again, especially with gaming more and more on people's priority lists for notebooks.
Just a matter of time people. I'm patient and willing to spend up to 8 grand if I have to. I don't mind, I'm a PROSumer on a role and producing still a ton of work with my 17"MBPs.
Why are people all of a sudden so worked up and hating on the 17"MBP now with the retina gadget book out? Like they are all justifying their loss of a huge real estate.
Not as hilarious as your contribution. Someone is amused and laughing. That is a good sign.
No one knows for sure why the late 17" MBP didn't get a refresh. As long as Apple hasn't made any official statement, no one will ever know. We knew very well and saw it coming for the MacBooks, their prices went down, down, down, we saw it coming. The price of the 17"MBP kept on climbing with tiny processor speeds then suddenly the release of the retina, obviously they didn't want to take the HUGE risk, so they thought if they get away with 15inch, eventually they'll produce the 13inch, because they are still desperate to compete with PC ultra-books. The death of Jobs meant no more innovation for the 17" MBP, that is my speculation. Apple now only wants to please the IOS market, it was a miracle they refreshed the MacPro. So, why wouldn't they surprise us with the 17"MBP again, especially with gaming more and more on people's priority lists for notebooks.
Just a matter of time people. I'm patient and willing to spend up to 8 grand if I have to. I don't mind, I'm a PROSumer on a role and producing still a ton of work with my 17"MBPs.
Why are people all of a sudden so worked up and hating on the 17"MBP now with the retina gadget book out? Like they are all justifying their loss of a huge real estate.
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The bottom line is the 15" screen is too small to use as a workstation that you can carry around. I think a solution could be to make a 16" screen on the 15" chassis by reducing the bezel. This would be awesome. If they could match the battery life I think apple might do this..... apple? .... please? pretty please?
ps
yes the sound of the 15" rMBP really is not as full as the 17" MBP. I have compared side by side several times, its not a subtle difference. They did the best they could and its a nice clean sound but you just can't get the same bass and full sound of the 17" in such a small space.
ps
yes the sound of the 15" rMBP really is not as full as the 17" MBP. I have compared side by side several times, its not a subtle difference. They did the best they could and its a nice clean sound but you just can't get the same bass and full sound of the 17" in such a small space.