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What are they doing about MBP Keyboard?? I’m 1 month out of warranty
- Thread starter JohnnyWmac
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This is why Apple's reputation is falling.... Personally, I will not purchase another Apple laptop until they redesign their keyboards, and even then I might wait until the revision after that. Unfortunately, it is only a matter of time before my 2013 MBA becomes unusable or obsolete and I while I love the 2015 MBPs, they are overpriced now. If my MBA dies and I need a replacement, I am heading back to Windows. I don't like that thought, but I have lost all need to stay on the Mac platform--all of my software that used to be Mac only now runs on Windows, MacOS server has been deprecated, there are solid Windows hardware options, and I hate the new design direction (read: FaceID and notch) for the iPhone.
As an IT consultant, I strongly caution anyone moving into Apple ecosystem now. I will hold onto my Macs for as long as they are serviceable, but if Apple does not change, then I will be forced to change.
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I do wonder about whether Apple designed the butterfly keyboards with "planned obsolescence" in mind. Many mice--Logitech is infamous for this--are designed to withstand a certain number of presses before the thin piece of metal contact no longer functions properly. The design takes into consideration the average number of clicks in a year and the length of the manufacturer's warranty. I wonder if Apple has done something similar with these keyboards or if Apple simply designed the mechanism improperly, i.e. too thin, resulting in premature failure due to use or heat. On Logitech mice, this can be fixed; on a Mac, not so much.
iliasp posted an interesting video in reply 123 above.
What I found REALLY interesting is that the guy in the video quoted one of MY posts here at MacRumors!
I'm a "quoted poster"!
heh...!
THAT WAS A GREAT VIDEO (shouting intentional) -- I watched it all the way through.
This is why I continue to recommend the 2015 design MacBook Pro as a better, wiser buy over a 2017 design (or refurbished 2016 design).
Why spend the money on a "new, latest and greatest" 2017 MacBook Pro that has a defective keyboard design that is likely to fail?
What are you going to do when it's out-of-warranty?
How many keyboard replacements will you then be willing to pay for?
Get a 2015.
The keyboard won't break and it has ports you can actually use.
What I found REALLY interesting is that the guy in the video quoted one of MY posts here at MacRumors!
I'm a "quoted poster"!
heh...!
THAT WAS A GREAT VIDEO (shouting intentional) -- I watched it all the way through.
This is why I continue to recommend the 2015 design MacBook Pro as a better, wiser buy over a 2017 design (or refurbished 2016 design).
Why spend the money on a "new, latest and greatest" 2017 MacBook Pro that has a defective keyboard design that is likely to fail?
What are you going to do when it's out-of-warranty?
How many keyboard replacements will you then be willing to pay for?
Get a 2015.
The keyboard won't break and it has ports you can actually use.
"Absolutely terrible advice to give anyone."
Nonsense.
What sense does is make to recommend something that has a high rate of [expensive] failure?
The 2015 design IS older, yes.
But it's not significantly "less powerful" than the new ones.
And again -- the keyboards WON'T FAIL.
I'd prefer a three-year-old Mac that keeps working, to a brand-new one that breaks... and then... breaks again.
Nonsense.
What sense does is make to recommend something that has a high rate of [expensive] failure?
The 2015 design IS older, yes.
But it's not significantly "less powerful" than the new ones.
And again -- the keyboards WON'T FAIL.
I'd prefer a three-year-old Mac that keeps working, to a brand-new one that breaks... and then... breaks again.
So that’s why there are hundreds of stores selling replacements?
So, in other words.... buy a machine that is three years old as opposed to a new one that *may or may not* have something go wrong.
Absolutely terrible advice to give anyone.
You have two choices.
1) Buy a design that is proven to last for long periods of time, and can be serviced by independents if something goes wrong. It won't be fun to service them, or cheap, but at least it's doable.
2) Buy a design that is proven to have random issues with a part that is not available in good condition from any supplier, that is unsupported from the manufacturer.
Choice 1 saves you 30%-50% over choice 2.
Explain what makes their advice bad advice?
No problem.
These specs are based off of both machines as NEW from Apple.com
2015
-5th generation Haswell Processor
-1600mhz ddr3 ram
-300 nits screen brightness
-slower ssd read/write speed
-integrated video (intel iris pro)
-support for 4K video external
-4.5lbs
-$1999.00
2017
-7th generation Kaby Lake Processor
-2133mhz lpddr3 ram
-500 nits screen brightness with wide color
-faster ssd read/write speed
-Radeon 555 / Intel Iris
-Support for 5K (2x) or 4K (4x) external
-4.02lbs
-$2399
I won’t mention the keyboard or larger trackpad and touch bar, as those are subjective at best. In every way the new machines are better. And you can argue they aren’t until you’re blue in the face, but the specs don’t lie.
All of these back and forth arguements about what *might* happen are utterly ridiculous. You might get hit by a car crossing the street, or your plane might fall out of the sky. None of those possibilities stop you from going to home/work/vacation/store/etc.
Also, I would argue that 1) over half of the people complaining about the 2016/2017 do not or have not owned one, and 2) would recommend AppleCare for the 2015 as well. So guess what... if you’re buying it for the 2015 you’d buy it for the 2017. You’re covered! Simple really. Get the newest machine you can afford.
If apple did such a thing it would be shocking. I don't think apple is evil, I mean the long term damage that would case to the company would be tremendous. I think they wanted to go as thin and possible and didn't field test it enough which is bad to begin with. Whatever happens I hope my new keyboard is a new version without the issue and the problem gets solved fast because It's really a great laptop.
You assume Apple did not field test the new design adequately. I suggest it might be planned obsolescence (an industry-wide practice). Which is worse--intentionally designed repairs or negligence?
Personally, I would not be shocked if the design was simply under-engineered and is failing prematurely; however, Apple clearly has no qualms about planned obsolescence and up-selling its customers to new hardware (see iPhone throttling).
As someone who owned and returned a 2016, and was lucky enough to find the (as of now) last 2015 2.8 512 model on the refurb store, I don't think specs tell the whole story.
I found the 2016 glitchy, did not like the new keyboard and found the touch bar awkward and pixelated. Hitting escape and moving focus with the oversized trackpad were daily frustrations. I'm quite sure I received shocks from the chassis, found the battery life inconsistent and short lived, and I got the overall impression the quality wasn't there like before, so I returned it.
I really wanted to upgrade my 2010 15" that was on it's 3rd GPU, so fast forward 2 years it was down to the 2015 vs. 2017, but like many others I was concerned about the alarmingly high keyboard failure rates.
So for me the reliability, useability, similar performance of the 2015 outweighed the risks of the 2017. I prefer the 2015 trackpad, keyboard, function keys, ports and track record. I would say it's the wiser choice until Apple addresses the keyboard issues. Having had multiple hardware failures in the past, I was acutely aware of the 5-10% risk of a $700 repair (a risk that may increase over time), and I shouldn't have to get Apple Care to cover a design flaw. I like to keep my machines for a while and would be concerned about the probability of an out of warranty repair.
Sure you could argue the 2017 specs are objectively better, but for the real world I chose the 2015. It was an iGPU model made in late 2017. Figured the iGPU would be more reliable and more likely to be a new refurb as the dGPU were discontinued some time ago now. I was right as it the serial number shows a 9/17 manufacture date and I'm excited to be picking it up in 2 days.
Now could be the last chance to get what Marco described as the best laptop ever made. I asked myself, if all the 2015s were discontinued tomorrow and I was stuck with a ticking time bomb 2017, would I regret not purchasing? I would, so I made the snap decision to pull the trigger once I saw the 2015 2.8. For me it came down to price-performance and risk-reward, and for me the 2015 was more compelling and less risky than the 2017.
"I won’t mention the keyboard or larger trackpad and touch bar, as those are subjective at best. In every way the new machines are better. And you can argue they aren’t until you’re blue in the face, but the specs don’t lie."
Yes, the specs are a little "lower" on the older one, but the essential and serious problem with the new design is something you "won't mention".
That is, the keyboard that breaks, and breaks again.
I prefer the older model with slightly less impressive specs that will still be running and usable when many of the 2016/17 designs will have been retired by their owners from frustration, or an unwillingness to dump $400-500 or more into them every time the keys start stickin' ...
Yes, the specs are a little "lower" on the older one, but the essential and serious problem with the new design is something you "won't mention".
That is, the keyboard that breaks, and breaks again.
I prefer the older model with slightly less impressive specs that will still be running and usable when many of the 2016/17 designs will have been retired by their owners from frustration, or an unwillingness to dump $400-500 or more into them every time the keys start stickin' ...
Not sure if Apple has different keyboard replacement method but that is ridiculous. Would not want my $2500+ machine going thru that. No surprise. Apple chooses design over function. We all want thin, light, great performing machines. Have we crossed the line of design over reliability.
That's so cute! You take my words out of context and twist them to fit your narrative. You should run for political office.
I was comparing the specs of the machine. NOT the ports (or lack thereof), trackpad size, keyboard feel. I specifically said I would not mention those as they are subjective. But hey, do whatever you need to do to justify your position.
That's not a valid argument because it's a false dichotomy. You're suggesting that the likelihood of danger shouldn't derail us from going on vacation, as if that was my argument. It isn't.
Let's say we have two vacation destinations: Disneyland or Disney World. Disney World had a far greater chance of resulting in a random cancellation than Disneyland. In the case of cancellation, The DisneyWorld vacationgoers report not receiving a refund or reschedule opportunity.
How could this not affect one's decision as to where to take their vacation?
I am not arguing you avoid vacation due to the uncertainty of distress. Rather, I am arguing that if one vacation plan has a far greater likelihood of not being a viable option, that you consider the other option as if it were one: because it is!
There is always a risk of danger. Weighing the costs and benefits to say "it is not worth the extra risk of purchasing a lemon that will not be supported to get mildly better specifications" is not ridiculous, it's prudent. The specs you posted are a mild difference, that one must weigh with considerable risk of random failure. It is on you to decide what is worth it.
All previous discussion and concerns aside - objectively there are more keyboard issues in 2016/2017 MBP's
That's a huge problem and something so serious on a reliability front quickly extinguishes any benefits of the newer models for me.
Not for the millions that don’t have any issues it isn’t. All of these negative posts are from an minority of users. And that is a fact.
The specifications tell me that you lose the magnetic charger interface which vastly reduced repair claims from accidents.
The specifications tell me that you lose the SD card slot which was INCREDIBLY useful to one of Apple's core demographics: amateur artists/filmmakers/content creators using the media with their cameras.
The specifications tell me you must carry a dongle around with you to use any other standard USB devices or hook it to most external monitors.
The "fact" is that it's larger problem then before.
That point is relevant.
C'mon man - argue and debate in good faith and concede an accurate point at least.
If it is a fact, please post proof. I'll settle for a properly conducted poll among a group of 1000 users representative for entire user base of the 2017 model, but if you've got something better, I'd love to see it.
Hahahhah. Whatever you say man. You got it. Not everyone needs a card reader, I have usb-c for any device I need to plug into it. No adapters required. Period. Oh, and my monitor plugs in with a usb-c to hdmi cable. And just to throw this out there, I’m a web designer / dev doing creative work in adobe cc most of the day, along with visual studio, brackets, VMware fusion, etc. etc.
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Go ahead and set one up then. Because it’s impossible on MacRumors to make a poll in which you actually know if someone OWNS the machine or is just jumping on the bandwagon, right? How about the FACT that Apple had the highest number of sales since the introduction of the machines? Do you think all of those new mobile sales were people clamoring to get a 2015 before they stopped making them? Mac sales were up 7% YoY quarter 3 2017. What else were they selling? A 2014 Mac mini? A 2013 Mac Pro? Cmon, you know better than that.
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I will not sir!
I’m not saying they don’t have issues. I never have and never will. I’m simply saying there is no way possible that it is as big and earth shattering as people here would lead others to believe.
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Good it works for you, equally Apple has screwed many of us in the process, and that's not cool. It's frustrating, irritating and outright expensive to switch platforms. For what the sake of an aesthetic, no small wonder there are so many pissed off pro users...
I can honestly say I've never seen more contemplate and actually leave the platform including myself, with many being long standing Mac stalwarts. I'm in heavy engineering covering all aspects both mechanical and complex electronic assemblies, one of the very few to use the Mac in my field, nor do I use it today professionally...
Q-6
I'm really surprised Apple are charging people for faulty keyboards on laptops just over a year old. Even if there wasn't a concern over the new design's reliability, since when did anybody buying a computer from any manufacturer ever, have to worry that a keyboard might die within a year or so?
Having a keyboard that would last a few years is surely an absolutely basic requirement when you buy any new machine? Has anybody actually challenged the Apple repair costs based on their country's consumer laws where you expect goods to be fit for purpose?
Having a keyboard that would last a few years is surely an absolutely basic requirement when you buy any new machine? Has anybody actually challenged the Apple repair costs based on their country's consumer laws where you expect goods to be fit for purpose?
I have a similar situation here; I own a 2015 MBP 256 ssd (bought in Amazon). Is failing (screen or video issues) and Amazon offers me:
1) Replacement for another 2015
2) Refund of the money (100%) and if I pay 400 dls more I can get the 2017 (512 ssd)
I love the 2015 and if you get one in good price (1000/1200 for my opinion) is a great machine.
But in tech specs talking (if you see apple prices) the difference in money doesn´t worth it... go for the 2017 or wait until next one this year maybe.
Amazon offers 2 years warranty, if something goes wrong they refund the money, is way better than getting the mbp fix over and over (as I can see happens to many people) or paying AppleCare.
IMHO
1) Replacement for another 2015
2) Refund of the money (100%) and if I pay 400 dls more I can get the 2017 (512 ssd)
I love the 2015 and if you get one in good price (1000/1200 for my opinion) is a great machine.
But in tech specs talking (if you see apple prices) the difference in money doesn´t worth it... go for the 2017 or wait until next one this year maybe.
Amazon offers 2 years warranty, if something goes wrong they refund the money, is way better than getting the mbp fix over and over (as I can see happens to many people) or paying AppleCare.
IMHO
That is truly the crux of the problem - well said.
Apple took a normally exceptionally reliable part - a very important one - and in their own quest for thinness and change for the sake of change made it a new problem to worry about.
It's like if your car dashboard was suddenly now riddled with buttons that get stuck, a wheel that will sometimes not turn as it should, and a shifter that gets finicky.