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What are they doing about MBP Keyboard?? I’m 1 month out of warranty
- Thread starter JohnnyWmac
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But the Air still sells in big numbers, so its not really outlived its purpose. Its maybe not a machine the average MR poster would be buying, but its price obviously appeals to a lot of people. I suspect they'll just update the internals to make it faster and leave it at that. I'm always amazed at how capable older Apple laptops are when you put an SSD in there, so its no surprise that the Air is more than fast enough for lots of people who just do email, web browsing and office-type apps. Lots of "normal" people don't even care that the screen is not retina 
If they could put another port in the 12" MacBook and drop the price to be the same as the Air, they'd probably be able to drop the Air altogether.
If they could put another port in the 12" MacBook and drop the price to be the same as the Air, they'd probably be able to drop the Air altogether.
But the Air still sells in big numbers, so its not really outlived its purpose. Its maybe not a machine the average MR poster would be buying, but its price obviously appeals to a lot of people. I suspect they'll just update the internals to make it faster and leave it at that. I'm always amazed at how capable older Apple laptops are when you put an SSD in there, so its no surprise that the Air is more than fast enough for lots of people who just do email, web browsing and office-type apps. Lots of "normal" people don't even care that the screen is not retina
If they could put another port in the 12" MacBook and drop the price to be the same as the Air, they'd probably be able to drop the Air altogether.
Only thing the Air suffered from was Apple forcing the upsell of the MBP by opting for such a poor TN display panel. For many the Air only needs an IPS display and a redesign of the bezel and frankly it's a dam sight more usable than the current joke the MBP has become.
In many respects the current Air is the only sensible portable in Apple's line-up, that is until Tim & Co get round to destroying it with more disposable garbage...
Q-6
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My Surface Book has been fine. But, the concept is still questionable. I have only used it as a tablet one or twice.
But, with that said, it is a great attempt. A much better option than attempting to use my iPad pro as a laptop. That has been a disaster because IOS is a terrible lap/desktop OS. Who wants to poke at the screen when doing real PowerPoint, Excel, or Word work?
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But the Air still sells in big numbers, so its not really outlived its purpose. Its maybe not a machine the average MR poster would be buying, but its price obviously appeals to a lot of people. I suspect they'll just update the internals to make it faster and leave it at that. I'm always amazed at how capable older Apple laptops are when you put an SSD in there, so its no surprise that the Air is more than fast enough for lots of people who just do email, web browsing and office-type apps. Lots of "normal" people don't even care that the screen is not retina
I don't think people do not notice that the screen quality is poor. At least if they have an HD or 4K TV at home. It is pretty obvious. And if they ever peeked at a retina screen, you just cannot unsee the difference. With my 2012 MBP I was sort of wondering if it was my eyes going bad or the screen. Once I saw a retina I knew it was the screen. And now days, even basic windows laptops come with better screen that the Air. IMHO people tolerate the screen.
As you point out it is still selling, but since Apple does not provide detailed sales numbers we really don't know how well. I wonder how many are corporate replacement machines. Corporate IT groups hate users getting new hardware they have to support. And some actively try to prevent users from changing until everyone changes.
My friend, just this morning, told me his wife is getting a new Air this week. (upgrade)
Many here on MR don't seem to grasp the port thing still, but it was simple for her.
Please, let me stop any of you saying "get dongles-problem solved"
Her problem already is solved with the ports built into the Air.
USB-C has to get more compelling and much more ubiquitous across all the various random situations a user like this might encounter before they'll be even remotely interested in it.
And then there's the "new problem" with USB-C in that you don't really know what each port/cable combo is actually capable of doing despite the ports all looking the same physically. That's horrific design actually. (not Apple's fault, but still valid)
Nerds - I am a major nerd - usually love things like USB-C. Normal users don't give an eff.
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I'm of the same opinion about the screen.
But - to be honest and fair - when I was using an Air at a family members house a couple weeks ago, I was shocked how quickly I forgot about the screen quality. I'm surrounded in my life by retina screens, 4k monitors, etc - and even I forgot about it and just ended up focusing on what I was doing on screen before too long with the Air.
Many here on MR don't seem to grasp the port thing still, but it was simple for her.
- She wants nothing to do with the keyboard problems her husband (my friend) has had.
- She routinely plugs in printers at home and work (USB-A)
- Likes MagSafe - still has existing chargers from her previous Air
- Likes the size/shape/feel of it
Please, let me stop any of you saying "get dongles-problem solved"
Her problem already is solved with the ports built into the Air.
USB-C has to get more compelling and much more ubiquitous across all the various random situations a user like this might encounter before they'll be even remotely interested in it.
And then there's the "new problem" with USB-C in that you don't really know what each port/cable combo is actually capable of doing despite the ports all looking the same physically. That's horrific design actually. (not Apple's fault, but still valid)
Nerds - I am a major nerd - usually love things like USB-C. Normal users don't give an eff.
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I'm of the same opinion about the screen.
But - to be honest and fair - when I was using an Air at a family members house a couple weeks ago, I was shocked how quickly I forgot about the screen quality. I'm surrounded in my life by retina screens, 4k monitors, etc - and even I forgot about it and just ended up focusing on what I was doing on screen before too long with the Air.
It's like people think they pay companies to think for them.
First one... Cables are detachable. Replace the usb cables with usb c end cables, if you want to forgo the dock, or dongles. Otherwise use a dock for desktop setup, and a dongle for travel.
Second one is astonishing. When you buy a cable, make sure you know what you're getting. "Hm why does this cable NOT transfer at TB speed?!" Uhhhh, because you didn't read the description, in your haste to purchase the cable.
The ports thing is a non issue. I was the first one to complain about it. Was forced to upgrade, and found out VERY fast that not only is it not a problem.
The mag safe, on the other hand... At least a company makes a very reliable magnetic TB3 cable. Sucks that Apple took that out, but I assume it makes no sense to include magsafe, when all oorts charge anyway.
In the US, AppleCare (extended warranty) can be purchased any time within the first year. Via phone call to Apple,
AppleCare + (extended warranty + accidental damage) can be purchased only the first 60 days after purchase.
Other countries may differ. You should update your profile to include define your location so people can let you know the rules in your locale.
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Think about what you just said there.
You think it's "astonishing" that a guys wife might not know all this crap and the pitfalls and the types of transfer cables and protocols?
You really think a user like that - that it's their fault?
Do some of you guys realize that Apple used to be the company that solved all of this for people?
Part of the goal of classic Apple was do it better, make it simpler, etc - that was part of the premium.
You literally said it but I guess you don't realize that "yes" - this was part of why people have loved Apple
Not everyone is a nerd or tech person who wants to think about any of this (case in point, this guys wife).
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You just proved my point. 12 year old, non nerds, can look up what kind of cable they need before purchase. That's like blaming McDonalds for not puting "hot" on the coffee cup, when one burns them self.
I get your point, but this happens all the time in tech. For example, someone buys a 4K TV or monitor and connects to a 4K device and cannot get a 4K on their TV or if a monitor full resolution. Opps. You need a different HDMI cable!
Another one from these forums. Upgraded internet service to 400 Mbps but cannot get your Mac to go over 100 Mbps. Need to update Wifi access points and switch to 5GHz.
Bottom line is we users need to be smarter or be able to get technical support to make us smarter, which is a primary function of these forums.
I don't think you and I are going to be able to have a good discussion around this topic.
Have a good day
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Forum dwellers like us are a whole different world than my friends wife and casual/normal users - which is how we got talking about this anyhow.
Agree to disagree I guess
Agreed. Unfortunately we are living in a more and more technologically complex world. It is great to have all this tech at your fingertips (I can answer my doorbell from 5,000 miles away!), but there is a cost. We have to either hire people to deal with keeping up (corporate IT for example), or spend time in the forums with us. Heaven forbid!
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A very large selling point of Apple products for over 15 years now has been "it just works." and not much tech savviness was required. iTunes & syncing to an iPod. The entire ecosystem. It was designed to just work out of the box.
As someone who has been dealing with dozens of consumers a day in a customer facing environment: people of all walks of life use these products and prefer them over everything else because it just works.
Feel free to remove this at your peril, Apple. and expect it to be more difficult to sell $1299-$3000 devices in a sea of $149-$650. The extra millimeter saved wasn't worth removing standard USB ports. Not in 2018. Not while the only dongle that works still costs $70.
So well said… They are putting their entire reputation at risk with some of these poor decisions.
Literally all the women in my family that love Apple love it because it's simple and just functions… They like that it looks good but they'll drop it like a hot rock if it's overpriced stuff that doesn't work well or is inconvenient to use
Yes. People literally buy Apple so they don't have to think, just use the products. If I feel like thinking I fiddle with Linux, and if I feel like trying everything until I cry in frustration there's Windows for that. Apple is there so that I can get things that just work and think about what I want to do with them rather than how.
I love it when apologists go so far that they actually demand their life be made more difficult. "Sell identical looking cables that do different things! Make people's life harder! I demand that you make me do homework before I buy a cable!"
As I've stated Apple's not remotely interested in USB C outside it allows Apple execute it's design language bringing thinner notebooks to market. "If" Apple was remotely serious about USB C:
- Moved the iPhone to USB C, why not? Millions lost in revenue due to the licensing of Lightening
- Apple would have offered it's own USB C/TB-3 dock at launch of the new MBP. Yet still today third parties remain to fill this void with whatever that may or may not work.
- iMac Pro would be devoid of "useless" legacy Port's. One can only assume Apple is concerned with the backlash of marketing a "Pro" Mac with just a singular port type, who'd of thought...
- Apple should have included USB C to USB A adaptors to ease the transition, it didn't for one simple reason Apple is overly focused on nickel & diming it's customers at every possible opportunity, which I personally find insulting.
- Answer to the MPB and USB C only is very simple; the smaller port allows Apple to exercise it's design language, allows it's manufacturer's to streamline parts and production process, undoubtedly increasing Apple's margin with ever more modular disposable appliances...
Q-6
I don't get the blame for thinness or butterfly. The rMB has no problem, and has even thinner keyboard. I'd rather the 2018 get that than one that fails in 12 months.
Ppl that don't like thin keyboards gotta get with the times. But a failing keyboard is inexcusable regardless.
Ppl that don't like thin keyboards gotta get with the times. But a failing keyboard is inexcusable regardless.
I agree, that is why I use a $179 Moto g instead of a $1000 iPhone X. Just sayin' that a lot of that "it just works" and "it's easy" and "everything is a compatible ecosystem" that made the products worth a premium might go out the window if people have to start researching which dongle work with what before they get to work.
My laptop has standard USB ports. It also has a USB-C port, which works with any dongle I choose to buy! Not just the $70 Apple one.
It is one thing to create a machine that has no ports besides USB-C. It is another entirely that it doesn't function with third party dongles. It is yet another thing entirely that the $3000 machine have a keyboard less durable than the average $300 machine's keyboard.
What does the premium price buy you anymore?
MBP runs hotter, nor is the rMB devoid of issue related to the keyboard. Apple simply wanted an aesthetic solution with little regard towards the user or the typing experience. Today the customer is paying for Apple's arrogance with piss poor unreliable keyboards...
Q-6
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0 thread with 'keyboard' in the title on the first page of the Macbook sub-forum. 5 threads with 'keyboard' in the title on the first page of the Macbook Pro sub-forum.
You can hypothesize it's heat or thinness or act of god or cuz Donald Trump got elected. But the truth is much, much, Much less problem with the rMB keyboard and it's Thinner than the MBP keyboard. While the MBP keyboard is failing left right and center. Anything else is speculation.
Maybe the install base is dramatically smaller than all the 13" and 15" pros with butterflies?
Might be part of it.
I have to think the 12" is pretty niche in total numbers vs essentially "all the other laptops combined" (except the Air)
[doublepost=1521936611][/doublepost]Also - there do appear to be issues when doing a search
https://forums.macrumors.com/search/5496284/?q=Keyboard&o=date&c[title_only]=1&c[node]=129
I skimmed the top 10 threads. Most are just wondering if there's a stuck keyboard problems. A few are spills, etc. Only 1 thread seems legit and it didn't even exceed 1 page.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/newer-macbook-and-macbook-pro-keyboard-problems.2083388/
I don't buy the argument that less unit sold = less keyboard threads on the rMB forum. U'd think if the failure rate is equal, the complaint rate on the forum will be equivalent. With the only difference being the frequency and total quantity of post in the respective forums. Not 5 to 0.
Unscientific anecdotal is saying that rMB has this problem Much Much less, despite being a thinner keyboard. There's nothing to indicate that the number of problems correlates with how thick or thin the keyboard is, let alone caused by thinness.
But I agree, Apple screwed up the rMBP keyboards in one way or another. They better fix them in 2018s and also do extended warranties for free on all the 16/17 keyboards.
I'm not sure it is equal.
As Queen said above, there are other differences in play here as well
Also, the travel on the rMB seems to be even less - even that change must be relevant here.
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Fully agree - that's all that really matters here..