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I would agree but Apple is missing some simple key features as I mentioned before. This is just like the iPhone's copy and paste. Apple makes you wait too long for something so simple.

You know, that analogy is more accurate than perhaps you intended. A lot of the "missing" features in OSX are a lot like cut and paste on the iPhone. First, they're only simple to add if you don't care how they are implemented, and second, they're features geeks demand, and hardly anyone else cares about at all.
 
You know, that analogy is more accurate than perhaps you intended. A lot of the "missing" features in OSX are a lot like cut and paste on the iPhone. First, they're only simple to add if you don't care how they are implemented, and second, they're features geeks demand, and hardly anyone else cares about at all.

In Some cases yes but What I posted earlier is only one way to implement and that's what I meant. I would only agree with that in some cases for example auto save is missing in Pages. Now how could that be better implemented than what Microsoft Office has. When I say simple I mean simple.
 
In Some cases yes but What I posted earlier is only one way to implement and that's what I meant. I would only agree with that in some cases for example auto save is missing in Pages. Now how could that be better implemented than what Microsoft Office has. When I say simple I mean simple.

You did mention moving and copying of files. I presume this a reference to Windows cut and paste. This was the subject of a lengthy discussion.
 
Interesting how many criticisms of OSX boil down to "it isn't Windows." Apple has chosen to do things differently than Microsoft, on purpose. Some of us actually regard this as a virtue, which why we choose to use OSX instead of Windows. And before anyone says "but Windows has more features," I'd respond that Microsoft's mania for cramming features (frequently with little thought about how they work) into their products is one the reasons some of us prefer Apple's more consistent and more judicious approach.

I have to disagree here. When Windows gives you "features" they are giving you options. They are empowering you. For example, when I need to unzip a file, windows will ask me where i want to extract it, where OS X will just unzip right into that directory.

Both OS's have their pros and cons in design, but saying that OS X consistency is always a good thing is wrong.
 
I wish that Mac OS still had the move command. It's like cut and paste, but instead you would select a file (or files) and sat move, then the files would disappear, your cursor would change to a briefcase and then you would find the destination and put it where ever you want.
 
Actually I meant how Finder won't remember your window settings.

I see. I think that's more of a bug than a missing feature, but your point is taken.

I have to disagree here. When Windows gives you "features" they are giving you options. They are empowering you. For example, when I need to unzip a file, windows will ask me where i want to extract it, where OS X will just unzip right into that directory.

Both OS's have their pros and cons in design, but saying that OS X consistency is always a good thing is wrong.

Consistency is always a good thing in human interface design. If you create a function that does different things under different circumstances you're creating a cognitive disruption. You are making people learn the machine.

I've found, generally speaking, that features are for geeks. Making an interface comprehensible at the most basic level is the primary goal of interface design. It's also the most difficult. One of the techniques for doing this is consistency. Apple got that religion early on. Microsoft really never did. Geeks rule at Microsoft, which is why you get feature bloat in their products.
 
I wish that Mac OS still had the move command. It's like cut and paste, but instead you would select a file (or files) and sat move, then the files would disappear, your cursor would change to a briefcase and then you would find the destination and put it where ever you want.

You can with QuickAccesCM, which is a simple contextual menu plug-in and uses zero to little CPU.

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Note:
Moving files to an external drive or a different partition sometimes doesn't work.
It basiscally copies the files to the place you have selected and with very large files it sometimes fails to delete the original files after it has copied them.
The move itself to another location has succeeded...well ok in this case you no longer would call it a "move to", but rather a "copy to".
Don't worry about loosing files, you won't.

Another nice feature is you can set it to show the destination after its move.
20090322-gayxtan7chpraridkb6wqtruwy.png
 
The concept of cut/copy 'n paste isn't rocket science. You don't need a degree to figure it out. Even a n00b would learn how it works fairly quickly. To not have a useful feature in order to "protect the n00b" is stupid (just like the caps lock issue). So what if you make a mistake and lose a couple of sentences? It's not the end of the world.

Good interface design is consistent. My point is that it is not always possible to get back to square one. One can set their undo level too small, or do things like purging history in Photoshop. Also, if you'll notice, the destructive form of cut and paste is not what is missing from OS X.

Take a look at some magazine covers. Plenty of caps on Golf Digest for example:
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=golf digest&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

For anything more than a few letters that's not very efficient when 1 finger is holding down shift. Doesn't matter how fast you are. 10 fingers is faster than 9.

For those cases, I don't even use caps. I type it as normal in case I want to quickly revert it without retyping later. In Illustrator, and I believe InDesign as well, I go to the character palette, open the flyout and check "all caps." If I want to restore it later, I uncheck it. The kicker? You can do it to as many lines as you like. If a creative director decides that all caps only works on the headlines, I can change it instantly. Piece of cake. I can similarly make it all lowercase, or small caps, without changing a thing. But I can't make it properly formatted text if I make it all caps to begin with. It's a stretch, but like I said, that's how little I use it.

I appreciate the need, but I don't run into it. I don't make magazine covers and I don't make architectural notes. But I can see why it could be useful to you.

Adding one button doesn't suddenly open the floodgates to 20 more buttons. Full screen is probably in the top 5 requested features from switchers. Adding one more button for full screen would help the switchers and still keep the Apple loyalists happy with their way of doing things.

You make a request and Apple honors it. That sets a precedent. Users see that that request was allowed and other requests follow. I think windowshade mode was cool. I make a request to Apple, and they honor it and add another button. Thousands of others make requests daily, and Apple ignores them. Out of the user pool enough requests let in by Apple lead to two buttons. Now we have five buttons. Five buttons that don't have a lick of explanation as to what they do until you hover on them. It's bad design and already takes up too much screen. It doesn't have to happen with tons of buttons as I stated. My point, that perhaps wasn't clear enough, was that even one additional button was too many.

I mentioned that each additional button took up roughly 23 pixels. On my Safari 4, which I keep at around 900 pixels, that equates to 2.5% of my title area. With each successive button, that removes an additional 2.5% of my title area. So, with only two buttons, 5% of my viewable title area is gone. Each successive button limits my viewable area. We don't need to reach the bottom of the slope for this to be problematic.

Also, you state that it's probably in the top 5 complaints of switchers—which if we're to be fair, you also fail to provide proof for that claim. I quickly Googled the install base of Mac OS X and the Guardian estimates 22 million. Apple 1Q 2008 was approximately 2.3 million Macs shipped. If we assume that all those are Switchers, and extrapolate that for four quarters, we get 9.2 million. Even though the Guardian article was old (before 2Q 2007 I believe) 9.2 million is not even half. Switchers are obviously not the majority. Apple has other paying customers that didn't buy a new Mac this year who would, I'm sure, be annoyed at us making Mac OS X like Windows.

I use both Windows and OS X. Features that I like in Macs I want in Windows and vice versa. Options and efficiency are what I desire in an operating system. Why does it have to be either/or, us/them? Some people like that OS X and Windows are different. I, on the other hand, wish they were combined with the best traits from one another.

The best traits from one and the other are your opinion. Personally, I'm glad that OS X's missing full screen "feature" weened me off of needing to use full screen with everything that I did. I didn't like it at first, but it's helped me work faster. I was practically OCD about full screening apps back then.

I wouldn't cursor back just to forward delete. I'd use back delete in that case.

I usually use forward delete when I'm adding something (sentence or word) in the middle of an already written paragraph. I do this a lot in emails where I write something, re-read it and the wording is off so I add and/or remove words/sentences to clarify. Sometimes it's back delete, sometimes it's forward delete depending on where I need to add and/or remove the words/sentences.

Fair enough. I think this is a good question though, which I'm curious about. They only have so many keys on the keyboard. Which one would you rather them change to forward delete? Is there another key you could leave out? I'm not asking to be an ass, I'm genuinely curious. I think it's clever that they at least made it Fn+Del.
 
Caps Lock

Let the caps lock thing go just because some magazine does it does not mean it is right. Besides how many full caps are inside? I'm sorry but that key is just cruise control for trolls. If the caps are just for titles give it the extra 1/10th of a second to turn on. They did it so people don't hit it by accident not just to piss magazine writers off.

Cons
- I hate Apple does not offer a couple themes for OSX I want a darker one so it is not so distracting while watching video. I don't like HUD controls when fullsreen.
- Having to use an eject key on a keyboard. What if the keyboard does not work (non USB KB during boot up)
 
Let the caps lock thing go just because some magazine does it does not mean it is right. Besides how many full caps are inside? I'm sorry but that key is just cruise control for trolls. If the caps are just for titles give it the extra 1/10th of a second to turn on. They did it so people don't hit it by accident not just to piss magazine writers off.

Cons
- I hate Apple does not offer a couple themes for OSX I want a darker one so it is not so distracting while watching video. I don't like HUD controls when fullsreen.
- Having to use an eject key on a keyboard. What if the keyboard does not work (non USB KB during boot up)

Haha, I considered making that point, but I just went along with it. I kind of wish my keyboard had it as a feature, though I'm torn because I want my keys to be responsive.

If you need to eject a disc during bootup, you can hold the mouse button down. Of course you'll still have the problem with a non-USB mouse.
 
- Having to use an eject key on a keyboard. What if the keyboard does not work (non USB KB during boot up)

I believe F12 can be used as the eject key on Macs without an Apple keyboard.
You can hold down the mouse button during bootup.

I am glad there is no eject button on the drive itself, so that way the disc will actually dismount itself from the OS, unlike Windows where you hit the button on the drive, and then Windows complains that there is no disc in the drive.
 
It is not a problem of the button, if it is not usb (has the PS2 to USB converter box) it won't accept any input from the keyboard until it is booted, I think it doesn't know the keyboard exists because it is not natively USB. One of my customers had this problem so I brought my KB with me and all was fine. I forced her to spend the $9.99 and get a USB keyboard after that :)

I agree with your second point this was more of an emergency eject issue. We had to take her disk out and put tiger in to reinstall, she was playing where she wasn't supposed to. I made a rule after that, if it takes a password to delete Don't delete it...
 
I'm sorry but that key is just cruise control for trolls.

Good one.

FWIW, when I owned a Windows PC box, which I used almost entirely for gaming, hitting the caps lock key accidently, as I often did during game play, caused the entire system to freeze up for a few seconds, while Windows displayed CAP LOCKS ON or OFF in big, green letters across the screen. That was nifty. Hitting the cap locks key while playing the same game on a Mac just locks or unlocks the caps.
 
Good one.

FWIW, when I owned a Windows PC box, which I used almost entirely for gaming, hitting the caps lock key accidently, as I often did during game play, caused the entire system to freeze up for a few seconds, while Windows displayed CAP LOCKS ON or OFF in big, green letters across the screen. That was nifty. Hitting the cap locks key while playing the same game on a Mac just locks or unlocks the caps.

That's not even as bad as when you hit the Windows key!
 
My favorite when playing online and using Japanese
[alt]+[~] is used to change language input
[alt]+[tab] to crash the game
I of course hit that more than once. DirectX games don't like that :p
 
Good one.

FWIW, when I owned a Windows PC box, which I used almost entirely for gaming, hitting the caps lock key accidently, as I often did during game play, caused the entire system to freeze up for a few seconds, while Windows displayed CAP LOCKS ON or OFF in big, green letters across the screen. That was nifty. Hitting the cap locks key while playing the same game on a Mac just locks or unlocks the caps.

That's not a Windows feature. Additional keyboard software makes those displays, like on my HP machine, but it can be disabled. On the personal Dell, it doesn't do that at all.
 
That's not a Windows feature. Additional keyboard software makes those displays, like on my HP machine, but it can be disabled. On the personal Dell, it doesn't do that at all.

Now there's a distinction without a real difference. When I built my Windows box it needed a keyboard, so I bought a Logitech (hardly an off-brand) and installed the needed drivers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could plug just about any keyboard into the Mac and it would work without installing driver software and without it causing the OS to burp every time I hit the caps lock key. The coders can verify or disagree with me, but it seems the issue is how Windows handles interrupts and the way it supports hardware.
 
Now there's a distinction without a real difference. When I built my Windows box it needed a keyboard, so I bought a Logitech (hardly an off-brand) and installed the needed drivers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could plug just about any keyboard into the Mac and it would work without installing driver software and without it causing the OS to burp every time I hit the caps lock key. The coders can verify or disagree with me, but it seems the issue is how Windows handles interrupts and the way it supports hardware.

Those drivers are needed only for additional keys, like media control and such. You can still plug in any USB keyboard and the standard keys will work without additional drivers. Since the additional software is what causes this, I'm not sure how one could blame Windows for that.

Logitech drivers usually install the Logitech control panel with them. That's what happened with mine too on my gaming PC.
 
Those drivers are needed only for additional keys, like media control and such. You can still plug in any USB keyboard and the standard keys will work without additional drivers. Since the additional software is what causes this, I'm not sure how one could blame Windows for that.

Logitech drivers usually install the Logitech control panel with them. That's what happened with mine too on my gaming PC.

But again, it screwed up a basic OS function. Not sure if this is even possible on a Mac.
 
But again, it screwed up a basic OS function. Not sure if this is even possible on a Mac.

Sure it did, but that's the fault of the app. I'm not sure if it is possible on a Mac, but not sure I'd even want to try. Logitech's drivers seem to be heavy with that type of stuff.
 
You make a request and Apple honors it. That sets a precedent.
But that doesn't mean that they would add more buttons in the same area. Your request could end up in a pulldown menu, somewhere else, or not implemented at all.

I mentioned that each additional button took up roughly 23 pixels. On my Safari 4, which I keep at around 900 pixels, that equates to 2.5% of my title area. With each successive button, that removes an additional 2.5% of my title area.
On Safari 4, Apple stuck the tabs in the title area. Any more than a few tabs open and you basically lost all your title area. Apple doesn't seem to think it's an issue. And I don't either.

Also, you state that it's probably in the top 5 complaints of switchers—which if we're to be fair, you also fail to provide proof for that claim.
Hence the inclusion of the word probably. It's just a guess. Although I've seen many threads just on macrumors alone dedicated to having a full screen button.

And this from macosxhints: "how can I make the green button fully expand windows?" is one of the most-common email inquiries I receive.
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20090302023042371

So whether it's top 5 or top 500, it's not totally obscure.

Switchers are obviously not the majority. Apple has other paying customers that didn't buy a new Mac this year who would, I'm sure, be annoyed at us making Mac OS X like Windows.
What about Mac users like me (I count right?) that would NOT be annoyed? How many of those existing Mac customers were switchers that switched maybe one, two or three generations ago but still would like full screen from their Windows days? Are they still considered switchers? And what about future switchers (that's a large population) that Apple, no doubt, would want to appeal to?

Personally, I'm glad that OS X's missing full screen "feature" weened me off of needing to use full screen with everything that I did. I didn't like it at first, but it's helped me work faster.
Well I'm glad that you can work faster without full screen. But what does that have to do with someone wanting full screen?

If I open Safari and go to Google images the + button will only make it about 800 pixels wide for some bizarre reason. Then I click on a 900 pixel wide pic and have to hit the + button to see it full screen. Then I click on a 1280 pixel wide pic and have to click the + button again. And so on. That's ridiculous. Just give me the option for full screen.

Fair enough. I think this is a good question though, which I'm curious about. They only have so many keys on the keyboard. Which one would you rather them change to forward delete? Is there another key you could leave out? I'm not asking to be an ass, I'm genuinely curious. I think it's clever that they at least made it Fn+Del.
I would make the current eject key the forward delete key. There's already pulldown menu options to eject in programs such as iTunes and you can also hit command+e. They could either remove it or make it Fn+forward delete to eject. Or make the caps lock key smaller and put eject over there. Or make the delete key a rocker key where the right side is forward delete and the left side is backwards delete. There's tons of things Apple can do to fit it in.

I'm sorry but that key is just cruise control for trolls. If the caps are just for titles give it the extra 1/10th of a second to turn on. They did it so people don't hit it by accident not just to piss magazine writers off.
Haha, I considered making that point, but I just went along with it. I kind of wish my keyboard had it as a feature, though I'm torn because I want my keys to be responsive.
Cruise control for trolls? More like a reason for fanboys to troll. Let's put a key on the keyboard, but gimp it for people that actually use it. Yeah, that makes sense. No other keyboard has a gimp'd caps lock key. Not even Apples own keyboards from a prior gen.

You guys realize that you can easily map your caps lock to be something else right or turn it off outright? So if you never use it like you all claim then just turn it off and be done with it.

Just because you guys don't use it doesn't mean that others don't. It's not just for magazine covers. Like I said before, engineers (drawings require caps, it's an ANSI requirement), programmers (constants are mostly in caps in Java, C, C++, etc), lawyers (THE STATE VS ...), an so on.
 
If you are using it to write legal crap then take the extra 1/10th of a second it is not that hard. Funny being called a mac fanboy in a Mac forum, considering your hate of OSX I don't see why you don't just return it and buy a Dell. And I code too so that does not fly with me because it is not lines and lines of caps.

Every complaint you have is a reference to Windows I don't get why you are here if you like Windows so much.

Con:
Stupid media keys are in the wrong place on the full size aluminum keyboard
 
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