No additional software needed (you can't do anything with Windows out of the box). An equivalent suite of software to do what iLife does costs hundreds.
Not true.
iTunes and iPhoto are the only useful apps in the iLife suite. iTunes on Windows is definitely lacking and slow thanks to Apple's shoddy Windows software porting division. Vista has built-in photo organizing software that is every bit as good as iPhoto. You can also get freeware alternatives like Picassa, which many regard as better than iPhoto. You can also get HP's free "Photosmart Essentials" which does everything iPhoto does, including the "photo books" and all of that. But with the added benefit of being able to print out those photo books on YOUR OWN paper and in your own styles! You buy the book and insert the pages.
iMovie '08 is not very good at all. iDVD is okay, but generally people don't care about fancy menus and such. In fact, I have yet to talk to someone in a real world situation (even in an Apple store) that likes DVD menus.
Garageband is essentially useless. If you're recording instruments you want higher quality and more capable software anyway.
A far more productive OS that can potentially save you thousands over a course of several years (simplicity, logic, and ease of use).
Neither Vista nor Leopard is easier to use than the other. They're both equal in terms of "ease of use". Leopard is not "more simple". On the surface, Leopard seems to have some advantages. Such as easier software installs. But uninstalling software in Leopard generally leaves behind a mess of .plist files in various folders that you have to hunt down and destroy, even if you do use AppDelete or AppZappper.
I also find Windows to be far more "logical" than OS X in some instances. Alt-Tab for instance. In Windows it takes you directly to the window you want. In OS X it just takes you to the application, then you have to use another keyboard combination/shortcut to get to the desired window.
I don't mean to sound like a fanboy, I'm not, I just think Windows is a joke, and I laugh at people who compare Macs to PC's.
And I laugh at people who think Windows is a joke. OS X is far behind Windows in many aspects. Let me know when OS X has system wide hardware acceleration for video please. Something Windows has had in various forms since the 1990s.
Heh, Windows had that before Mac OS had pre-emptive multi-tasking. Kind of funny
Now that is the type of information I was looking for. Very good info.
I don't see how it would make such a huge difference in "portability" between having a 13.3 or 15.4 in a bag to carry with me. But I do see a big difference when looking at a 13.3 and 15.4 screen. If I was concerned with portability, I would just use my iPhone for everything or get a 8.9 inch portable which is the size of a book.
The MacBook isn't as much smaller as a PC as the Apple faithful would like you to believe. I have a "fat" 15.4" HP and the MacBook. The MacBook weighs 5lbs and is only a cm or so smaller in each direction than the HP. The HP weighs 6lbs (with the higher capacity, but not bigger, battery and dedicated graphics). When I have it in a bag (most bags are designed for 15.4" anyway) I can't tell the difference between the two.
When I'm using it on my lap, the HP has a HUGE advantage in terms of heat. All Macs lack efficient cooling. As a result, the bottom of the case can COOK. Its amazing how hot it gets even with reduced performance settings and not doing anything other than chatting and browsing. The HP stays cool though, thanks to the fan on the bottom pulling air up and pushing it out the back, compared to the MacBook's exhaust only fan with no circulation and no vents in the casing except around the fan.
To get a more proper comparison it would be better to compare a Macbook to an XPS m1330 in which case the Macbook is often slightly cheaper or around the same price
Sigh. Its always ridiculous when people try to bring up this argument. Its completely inaccurate. The XPS is a system you buy because you care about vanity and because you want a portable.
The MacBook is generally the most popular MacBook and the one people buy because its the ONLY Apple notebook they can afford. As I've said many times before, nearly all people do not walk into an Apple store and see the MacBook and think "hmm its cheaper AND smaller" they look at the 15.4" and say "wow I can't afford this. But I can afford the smaller one".
Its perfectly reasonable to compare a standard notebook PC to a MacBook because, again, people are not buying it for its size. They are buying it because it is all they can afford.
And for $50 more than the middle MacBook, you get dedicated graphics with the XPS anyway. So its still well ahead of the MacBook.
The Macbook is considered a premium computer and as such it should be compared to premium computers.
Oh please. Whats premium about the MacBook? It's lacking standard connectivity (HDMI, eSATA, VGA/S-Video without adapters, full size ExpressCard, memory card readers), the casing is prone to cracking from regular use and heat, its prone to discoloring due to regular use and heat, and it uses integrated graphics. No "premium" computer would EVER have integrated graphics. Even the old last generation iBook still has better graphics than the current MacBook!
And it's pretty clear that mosx is a troll...
Don't resort to school yard insults just because you don't like hearing the truth.
By "stupid design", you appear to be talking about slot-loading drives vs. tray-loading drives.
Oddly enough, PC notebooks just now seem to be moving towards this "stupid design" that Apple notebooks have had for the last umpteen years.
My roommates' $2000 new Dell Studio XPS whatever has a slot-loading drive, and guess what? You have to perform surgery and pull the entire system apart to replace the optical drive.
Dell and their "premium" designs are the only ones that use slot loaders.
Every one else, including Dell's "regular" notebooks, HP, Gateway, custom makers, Asus, etc. all use standard tray loaders that can be replaced by the end user.
Standard? If you walk into a Best Buy or Circuit City and look at the rows of PC notebooks there, it's still the exception to find one with HDMI
Not true. Any PC in Best Buy, CC, Fry's, etc. with dedicated graphics will have HDMI outputs. You can even pick up a $750 HP with integrated graphics (ATI 3200) with an HDMI output and blu-ray. Again, HDMI was part of the Santa Rosa spec. It was up to the manufacturers to opt out of including it.
The difference between them is the fact that the Dell machine comes with an out of date Celeron processor, a screen with the same resolution as the Macbook but bigger in size, only 1 GB or Ram, only Wireless G, no Bluetooth, and Vista Home Basic which is quite spartan, a smaller battery, plus the lack of in store support, etc, lack of software such as iLife and depending on the machine, worse quality often times.
Two things. First, at least Dell gives you the option of buying a system at that price. What if that is all someone needs or all they can afford? At least PC manufacturers give you the choice of being able to pick and choose what hardware you want for what price. With Apple you either have to buy an expensive system that is not worth it (entry MacBook) or go up to a level ($1299) where you can get what could be considered a gaming PC.
At least Dell, HP, Gateway, and many others offer systems at all price ranges. Theres no reason for someone to spend $1100 on a computer if they only want to do a small amount of things. With integrated graphics, 1GB of RAM, and no DVD writer, that entry level MacBook is no better than that $450 Dell anyway. Except the Dell WOULD have a DVD writer!
Second thing, why bring up iLife? Again, iLife is essentially useless. iTunes is good in OS X, but not in Windows (Apple's fault). iPhoto is good, but there are better and free alternatives out there for Windows. Most people will never use iMovie, iDVD, or Garageband outside of opening it up and seeing what it looks like. I personally rather have the option of paying $100 less and not having iDVD, iMovie, and Garageband installed. Or let me spend $200 less and have NO iLIfe apps. Let me download iTunes for free and spend $25 to get iPhoto.
Most people still don't live around an Apple store either. I live in southern California and the closest Apple store is a good 70 mile round trip.
With PCs, however, you do get 24/7 support. It doesn't close on the weekends.
Except the HDMI thing is partially right, it's true that it's not as standard as MOSX think but at the same time they're not extremely hard to find.
You'd be hard pressed to find a system with dedicated graphics that does NOT have HDMI output and is a current generation model.
PC manufacturers use Slot-Loading drives too, not as much as apple, but most of their "Stylish" and "Chic" looking laptops do like the Dell Studio Laptops and the XPS lines.
Can you remind me what Apple also HAPPENS to strive for in the looks department?
And since you like "proof" so much MOSX
I already said that Dell and their "premium" lines are using slot loaders. No other respectable manufacturer does.
Oh, just watch how fast he turns this into the "DELL DOESN'T ACCURATELY REPRESENT ALL PC MANUFACTURERS" just like how he kinda did with that Vista survey on that forums which only had 800 people vote, rather than the 203492384093289 (mosx excellent estimation skills) MILLION that use Vista.
Go read up about what a survey does, buddy, because I think your thinking census and I'm thinking Arby's
Of all of Dell's sales, how many XPS and Studio systems are sold?
Exactly. I bet Dell sells less XPS and Studio systems than Apple sells Macs
Oh and 800 people voting on a survey does not represent the tens of millions of Vista users
None of them come close to the build quality of Apples, except the Thinkpads.
Heh, you think Apple's build quality is good? THen tell me, why does the MacBook Pro have yellowing screen issues still? Why does it still have sound issues (electronic sounds coming out of the headphone/speaker jack)? Why does it warp from heat? Why does it bend and scratch? Why does the case start to separate due to heat? Why does the MacBook still have cracking issues on the palmrest? Why does the MacBook crack on the bottom due to heat? Why does it crack around the vent due to heat? Why does it turn yellow on the bottom due to heat? Why does it turn yellow around the vents due to heat?
As far as the C2D's not running as efficiently under OSX as they do in Windows; have you read any benchmarks? Better yet, have you performed any? I have. OSX is faster than Vista. Sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. Even on the same exact machine. It's also generally faster (again, on the same hardware) than XP is.
Have you watched your CPU use at all? Play a DVD in OS X versus Windows. Browse the web and watch Firefox or Safari's CPU use in OS X versus Windows. Look at Flash performance in OS X versus Windows.
ANd yes, I have run benchmarks. First of all, games. Even on the pathetic GPUs that Apple includes in the MacBooks, games tend to run twice as fast in Windows versus OS X. I've run Handbrake on both my HP and my Mac. MacBook: 2.16GHz Core 2 Duo 3GB of RAM. HP: 2GHz Core 2 Duo, 3GB of RAM. Handbrake finished faster on the HP by a few seconds.
But I'm not just talking about raw speed (its painfully obvious to anyone who monitors CPU usage that OS X and 3rd party OS X software eats up more CPU cycles than Windows), I'm talking about application loading time as well. Thanks to the way Windows Vista works, all of my most frequently used software loads instantly on a fresh boot. I click the FF icon and its there. I click AIM and its there. I click MSN and its there. Even iTunes. I click it and it opens nearly instantly. In OS X after a fresh boot I have to wait several seconds for each application to open.
I haven't been here very long, but have many years logged in the PC world. It's clear to see why the other posters here seem to generally dislike you. You're not remotely constructive or helpful, and are at best a poor troll. Why is that? PPC hold out fan boy? Or Windows fanboy?
Its funny when Apple fans resort to school yard insults when they can't handle hearing the truth.
I was actually an Apple fanboy. I loved my Mac. Then I started experiencing OS X's crashing problems. Then about 3 months after I got my first MacBook I noticed that, for half the price, I could have gotten something with a similar processor, 17" screen, twice the memory, twice the HDD space, and a GeForce Go 7600. My MacBook couldn't even choke out a good 30fps in a then 3 year old game at medium settings at 800x600, yet a system costing half as much could run the same game (UT2k4) at native display resolution, max settings, solid 60fps. I realized then that I was a fool for buying into the Apple Hype and that I made a huge mistake buying my MacBook. I should have taken that refund that Apple offered.
Yup

Had family visiting and was busy.
BTW, I'm currently considering this laptop, for all of you Macbook lovers.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1211587727985 For $1450, it has a 17" screen, and its graphics card leaves the 17" MBP in the dust. 1920 x 1200 resolution, 4GB ram standard, 7200 RPM HDD, ect. It's a Gateway, and yet it has positive reviews everywhere.
Thats an awesome system. I'd buy it if I was in the market right now. That just blows away all of the Macs out there and it costs half as much as the MacBook Pro 17"!
I can get all those specs for the price of a top-of-the-line Macbook. Who cares about how thin and light the Macbook is? You can't use it on your lap, or you'll lose your fertility and get second-degree burns.
Heh heh I like that.