Is there something wrong with wanting a Mac to have hardware that PC competitors have available? 
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What doesn't MacBook come in 15 inch monitor?
- Thread starter CrimsonTider
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"I like Macs. I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I have my opinions set in stone. I make sweeping generalizations and half truths that benefit my argument. I make fun of Vista even though I've never used it."
"I like PCs. I'm fairly knowledgeable. I also make sweeping generalizations and half truths that benefit my argument. I enjoy arguing on Apple sites in my spare time."
Old argument, let other people think and say whatever they want because there isn't much you can do about it.
Absolutely NOT. Apples' competition has some very good products, and Apple would benefit by using some of those features. The inverse is also true, of course.
"I like PCs. I'm fairly knowledgeable. I also make sweeping generalizations and half truths that benefit my argument. I enjoy arguing on Apple sites in my spare time."
Old argument, let other people think and say whatever they want because there isn't much you can do about it.
Is there something wrong with wanting a Mac to have hardware features that PC competitors have available?
Absolutely NOT. Apples' competition has some very good products, and Apple would benefit by using some of those features. The inverse is also true, of course.
Uh as I said before, that was after I had gotten my first MacBook. That was a year and a half ago (notice the GeForce Go 7600? well, maybe not since Apple uses low-end hardware).
It was between $700 and $800 (can't remember) and my MacBook was $1406 after taxes.
It had a similar processor, GeForce Go 7600, 2GB of RAM, 160GB HDD, 17" screen, etc. It was on newegg.
Photo slideshows burned to DVD? I tried that with iDVD. Bored me and everyone else I know to death.
And I was referring to the fact of how hard it is to set up DVD menus in iDVD (compared to freeware alternatives on Windows, iDVD is easy but not anywhere near as easy as it should be). Freeware alternatives on Windows can set up a basic menu with all you need in just a few seconds.
This and what you described above can be done with freeware. Faster in Windows as well as with higher quality video encoders and more basic menus that are both easier to setup and easier to navigate.
Most software deletes their registry entries upon uninstall. For those small number of really old apps that don't theres always ccleaner. Simple, free (unlike most OS X software), and fast. Helps keep a system running like new.
Before you try to say anything about having to use software like that, Onyx should be built-in to OS X considering how much its needed.
All of my HPs over the years have weighed 6lbs. And didn't you notice I said it was "fat"? It is thicker than my MacBook. But it has a proper cooling system, unlike the MacBook. So I can actually use it on my lap without having to worry about my fertility.
I don't ever want a computer as thin as a MacBook or MacBook Pro again. I want a computer with a proper cooling system that won't cause the casing to get too hot and discolor or break as a result. I want to be able to use it on a warm day without worrying about heat. I want user serviceable parts. I also want dedicated graphics.
What you're referring to is the top case/palm rest discoloring due to a reaction with skin oils. That still exists to an extent. But the real problem now is yellowing from heat.
Well, Sony's junk is generally just that. Junk. They use low quality components like Apple and then bump up the price to Apple-like heights.
Gateway's T Series does? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8892861&type=product&id=1211587728253 hmm not there it doesn't.
Some do some don't. You have an OPTION *gasp*. But I know you Apple fan's can't grasp the concept of "options" in a computer
However, on the ONE T series I did see with a slot loader, it looked like it was user replaceable. It was NOT integrated into the system the same way it is on a MacBook.
Dell's "Vostro" is basically the business version of the Inspiron, but with slot loading drives on a few.
One thing to consider, however, is that the Vostro is built FAR BETTER than a MacBook and Dell offers on-site supprot for $20 on top of the base warranty that is included. For $99 you get a 3 year warranty with 3 year next business day on-site support.
In that case, the problems presented by an integrated slot-loader drive are irrelevant because of the fact that you can call Dell and have someone out the NEXT DAY to fix it.
Not like what happened with my MacBook when the DVD writer went bad. Had to send it in. Got it back, case was practically destroyed and the DVD drive was untouched. Sent it back out, service center performed a re-alignment that made things worse, sent it back with a newly destroyed new case. Apple finally replaced it. I was without a Mac for 3 weeks.
Here in Southern California they do
Even without HDMI, at least I don't have to pay for expensive adapters to connect to VGA or S-Video. Why is it that my $900 HP has standard display ports built-in (HDMI, VGA, S-Video) but my MacBook requires me to buy $60 worth of adapters if I want to use all 3?As I said, here in Southern California they do.
My $900 HP does.
As I said before, its better to at least have built-in VGA and S-Video than having to buy expensive adapters for everything. Why doesn't Apple include the adapters in the box any more like they did with the iBook?
If you want to see an ugly laptop, take a look at the MacBook Pro
The grill designs over the speakers look like its right out of the 70s.Not true.
iTunes and iPhoto are the only useful apps in the iLife suite. iTunes on Windows is definitely lacking and slow thanks to Apple's shoddy Windows software porting division. Vista has built-in photo organizing software that is every bit as good as iPhoto. You can also get freeware alternatives like Picassa, which many regard as better than iPhoto. You can also get HP's free "Photosmart Essentials" which does everything iPhoto does, including the "photo books" and all of that. But with the added benefit of being able to print out those photo books on YOUR OWN paper and in your own styles! You buy the book and insert the pages.
iMovie '08 is not very good at all. iDVD is okay, but generally people don't care about fancy menus and such. In fact, I have yet to talk to someone in a real world situation (even in an Apple store) that likes DVD menus.
Garageband is essentially useless. If you're recording instruments you want higher quality and more capable software anyway.
Neither Vista nor Leopard is easier to use than the other. They're both equal in terms of "ease of use". Leopard is not "more simple". On the surface, Leopard seems to have some advantages. Such as easier software installs. But uninstalling software in Leopard generally leaves behind a mess of .plist files in various folders that you have to hunt down and destroy, even if you do use AppDelete or AppZappper.
I also find Windows to be far more "logical" than OS X in some instances. Alt-Tab for instance. In Windows it takes you directly to the window you want. In OS X it just takes you to the application, then you have to use another keyboard combination/shortcut to get to the desired window.
And I laugh at people who think Windows is a joke. OS X is far behind Windows in many aspects. Let me know when OS X has system wide hardware acceleration for video please. Something Windows has had in various forms since the 1990s.
Heh, Windows had that before Mac OS had pre-emptive multi-tasking. Kind of funny
The MacBook isn't as much smaller as a PC as the Apple faithful would like you to believe. I have a "fat" 15.4" HP and the MacBook. The MacBook weighs 5lbs and is only a cm or so smaller in each direction than the HP. The HP weighs 6lbs (with the higher capacity, but not bigger, battery and dedicated graphics). When I have it in a bag (most bags are designed for 15.4" anyway) I can't tell the difference between the two.
When I'm using it on my lap, the HP has a HUGE advantage in terms of heat. All Macs lack efficient cooling. As a result, the bottom of the case can COOK. Its amazing how hot it gets even with reduced performance settings and not doing anything other than chatting and browsing. The HP stays cool though, thanks to the fan on the bottom pulling air up and pushing it out the back, compared to the MacBook's exhaust only fan with no circulation and no vents in the casing except around the fan.
Sigh. Its always ridiculous when people try to bring up this argument. Its completely inaccurate. The XPS is a system you buy because you care about vanity and because you want a portable.
The MacBook is generally the most popular MacBook and the one people buy because its the ONLY Apple notebook they can afford. As I've said many times before, nearly all people do not walk into an Apple store and see the MacBook and think "hmm its cheaper AND smaller" they look at the 15.4" and say "wow I can't afford this. But I can afford the smaller one".
Its perfectly reasonable to compare a standard notebook PC to a MacBook because, again, people are not buying it for its size. They are buying it because it is all they can afford.
And for $50 more than the middle MacBook, you get dedicated graphics with the XPS anyway. So its still well ahead of the MacBook.
Oh please. Whats premium about the MacBook? It's lacking standard connectivity (HDMI, eSATA, VGA/S-Video without adapters, full size ExpressCard, memory card readers), the casing is prone to cracking from regular use and heat, its prone to discoloring due to regular use and heat, and it uses integrated graphics. No "premium" computer would EVER have integrated graphics. Even the old last generation iBook still has better graphics than the current MacBook!
Don't resort to school yard insults just because you don't like hearing the truth.
Dell and their "premium" designs are the only ones that use slot loaders.
Every one else, including Dell's "regular" notebooks, HP, Gateway, custom makers, Asus, etc. all use standard tray loaders that can be replaced by the end user.
Not true. Any PC in Best Buy, CC, Fry's, etc. with dedicated graphics will have HDMI outputs. You can even pick up a $750 HP with integrated graphics (ATI 3200) with an HDMI output and blu-ray. Again, HDMI was part of the Santa Rosa spec. It was up to the manufacturers to opt out of including it.
Two things. First, at least Dell gives you the option of buying a system at that price. What if that is all someone needs or all they can afford? At least PC manufacturers give you the choice of being able to pick and choose what hardware you want for what price. With Apple you either have to buy an expensive system that is not worth it (entry MacBook) or go up to a level ($1299) where you can get what could be considered a gaming PC.
At least Dell, HP, Gateway, and many others offer systems at all price ranges. Theres no reason for someone to spend $1100 on a computer if they only want to do a small amount of things. With integrated graphics, 1GB of RAM, and no DVD writer, that entry level MacBook is no better than that $450 Dell anyway. Except the Dell WOULD have a DVD writer!
Second thing, why bring up iLife? Again, iLife is essentially useless. iTunes is good in OS X, but not in Windows (Apple's fault). iPhoto is good, but there are better and free alternatives out there for Windows. Most people will never use iMovie, iDVD, or Garageband outside of opening it up and seeing what it looks like. I personally rather have the option of paying $100 less and not having iDVD, iMovie, and Garageband installed. Or let me spend $200 less and have NO iLIfe apps. Let me download iTunes for free and spend $25 to get iPhoto.
Most people still don't live around an Apple store either. I live in southern California and the closest Apple store is a good 70 mile round trip.
With PCs, however, you do get 24/7 support. It doesn't close on the weekends.
You'd be hard pressed to find a system with dedicated graphics that does NOT have HDMI output and is a current generation model.
I already said that Dell and their "premium" lines are using slot loaders. No other respectable manufacturer does.
Of all of Dell's sales, how many XPS and Studio systems are sold?
Exactly. I bet Dell sells less XPS and Studio systems than Apple sells Macs
Oh and 800 people voting on a survey does not represent the tens of millions of Vista users
Heh, you think Apple's build quality is good? THen tell me, why does the MacBook Pro have yellowing screen issues still? Why does it still have sound issues (electronic sounds coming out of the headphone/speaker jack)? Why does it warp from heat? Why does it bend and scratch? Why does the case start to separate due to heat? Why does the MacBook still have cracking issues on the palmrest? Why does the MacBook crack on the bottom due to heat? Why does it crack around the vent due to heat? Why does it turn yellow on the bottom due to heat? Why does it turn yellow around the vents due to heat?
Have you watched your CPU use at all? Play a DVD in OS X versus Windows. Browse the web and watch Firefox or Safari's CPU use in OS X versus Windows. Look at Flash performance in OS X versus Windows.
ANd yes, I have run benchmarks. First of all, games. Even on the pathetic GPUs that Apple includes in the MacBooks, games tend to run twice as fast in Windows versus OS X. I've run Handbrake on both my HP and my Mac. MacBook: 2.16GHz Core 2 Duo 3GB of RAM. HP: 2GHz Core 2 Duo, 3GB of RAM. Handbrake finished faster on the HP by a few seconds.
But I'm not just talking about raw speed (its painfully obvious to anyone who monitors CPU usage that OS X and 3rd party OS X software eats up more CPU cycles than Windows), I'm talking about application loading time as well. Thanks to the way Windows Vista works, all of my most frequently used software loads instantly on a fresh boot. I click the FF icon and its there. I click AIM and its there. I click MSN and its there. Even iTunes. I click it and it opens nearly instantly. In OS X after a fresh boot I have to wait several seconds for each application to open.
Its funny when Apple fans resort to school yard insults when they can't handle hearing the truth.
I was actually an Apple fanboy. I loved my Mac. Then I started experiencing OS X's crashing problems. Then about 3 months after I got my first MacBook I noticed that, for half the price, I could have gotten something with a similar processor, 17" screen, twice the memory, twice the HDD space, and a GeForce Go 7600. My MacBook couldn't even choke out a good 30fps in a then 3 year old game at medium settings at 800x600, yet a system costing half as much could run the same game (UT2k4) at native display resolution, max settings, solid 60fps. I realized then that I was a fool for buying into the Apple Hype and that I made a huge mistake buying my MacBook. I should have taken that refund that Apple offered.
Yup
Thats an awesome system. I'd buy it if I was in the market right now. That just blows away all of the Macs out there and it costs half as much as the MacBook Pro 17"!
Heh heh I like that.
What is going on here? Are threads lockable in Macrumors? Do it now. This is a terrible waste of space.
We're in a macrumors forum, where people love macs. Mosx, what is your deal? I understand you had a bad time with your macbook, but chill out. Time has passed. Be happy with your PC. Go spread your joy with other PC lovers. And man, stop mentioning price. That's your decision to buy, and you should have researched the risk of buying your mac. I researched PC, and it wasn't for me. Life sucks for you cause you made a bad decision for yourself.
People have different experiences than you do man. My last 3 macs worked fine: a powerbook, and 2 macbooks. My PC's they shot straight to hell in 2 years. I am a reckless University student that cares ***** about maintaining my computer. I am the same with my macs, and they are wonderful. My 1.5Ghz powerbook (4 years)...had a geekbench of 740. My 1.6Ghz Core duo (2 years) Thinkpad had over twice that score. Windows killed my PC to unworkable, and oh yeah my fan broke down in that laptop. My powerbook...all it had was faulty bluetooth. I sold that for $800. Wow, macs even make me some money after 4 years. I also had a Dell with batteries that literally fell out while using them. Oh, and my vaio that had billions of bloatware that i never used. I sold that too.
I now use my mac to write applications for windows....go figure. And that software that you keep burning; Apple's software is about the most user friendly software I had ever used. Sure it isn't the best out there, but it beats the hell out of Windows software that looks boring and technical. Its for all the people that hate dealing with computer speak, tech jargon, and don't want to look. If you hate that, then don't use it. Yes you are better than all of us cause you can read and use Vista.
I hate to do this but Mosx, please tell us something you like about Apple, so you gain some credibility. You really do sound like a troll...praising PC's for all its worth in a Mac forum.
P.S. This is the best mac forum. Don't ruin it for these helpful people, by tainting this place with your negativity. That's what Engadget is for.
People here are just looking for Mac advice, and some don't even know what a Core Duo is.
You're right. WHY would you quote his whole worthless, gigantic post?!
End this argument now with this:
HDMI would be nice. Apple doesn't do it yet, and they're not releasing an update JUST for it. In all probability, Apple will go with DisplayPort for their next line of connectors. Should this happen, it will happen in this order: Mac Pro, MacBook Pro, iMac, MacBook, Mac Mini.
DisplayPort is small enough to not require a proprietary "mini-DisplayPort" like Apple's mini- and micro-DVI solutions.
And to shut people up about it, Blu-ray is compatible with OS X. Blu-ray movies that use HDCP are the only form of Blu-ray media that is not. Apple does not like DRM, and HDCP is its worst incarnation yet. The adoption of Blu-ray will be in the aforementioned order if Apple chooses to give its computers Blu-ray drives at all.
Thread over... please.
The Apple community could use more people who aren't going to simply praise everything that comes out of Cupertino, and I write this message from my MacBook, my only computer. The fact of the matter is, everything mosx says is true. You can still love Apple's products, you can still love your Macs, but it's important to not become media illiterate and be able to see the forest through the trees.
I love my MacBook, but not as much as I did before I bought there. There were some harsh realities I had to accept as time went on with this machine, and mosx chronicled a lot of it.
I don't plan to switch back, but I wouldn't rule it out. If Apple knows that can put out whatever the hell they want and we'll love it, where's the incentive to improve?
I love my MacBook, but not as much as I did before I bought there. There were some harsh realities I had to accept as time went on with this machine, and mosx chronicled a lot of it.
I don't plan to switch back, but I wouldn't rule it out. If Apple knows that can put out whatever the hell they want and we'll love it, where's the incentive to improve?
You forgot GarageBand, iMovie, and iDVD, all very useful. GB is used all over the place. Check sevenstring.org and Harmony-Central, there are a lot of users, and it's a great program for recording now that it does 24-bit multitrack recording.
Vista has built-in photo organizing software that is every bit as good as iPhoto. You can also get freeware alternatives like Picassa, which many regard as better than iPhoto. You can also get HP's free "Photosmart Essentials" which does everything iPhoto does, including the "photo books" and all of that. But with the added benefit of being able to print out those photo books on YOUR OWN paper and in your own styles! You buy the book and insert the pages.
What's "not very good about it"? It works very well, and is easy to use. What am I missing?
See above. Obviously you're commenting on something you know nothing about once again, because the quality in GB is great. You do know that much of the quality of a recording has to do with converters, right? The summing in GB might not be as good as Logic or others, but it does a damn good job.
That's your personal preference, not a fact.
And I laugh at people who think Windows is a joke. OS X is far behind Windows in many aspects. Let me know when OS X has system wide hardware acceleration for video please. Something Windows has had in various forms since the 1990s.
Heh, Windows had that before Mac OS had pre-emptive multi-tasking. Kind of funny
The MacBook isn't as much smaller as a PC as the Apple faithful would like you to believe. I have a "fat" 15.4" HP and the MacBook. The MacBook weighs 5lbs and is only a cm or so smaller in each direction than the HP. The HP weighs 6lbs (with the higher capacity, but not bigger, battery and dedicated graphics). When I have it in a bag (most bags are designed for 15.4" anyway) I can't tell the difference between the two.
When I'm using it on my lap, the HP has a HUGE advantage in terms of heat. All Macs lack efficient cooling. As a result, the bottom of the case can COOK. Its amazing how hot it gets even with reduced performance settings and not doing anything other than chatting and browsing. The HP stays cool though, thanks to the fan on the bottom pulling air up and pushing it out the back, compared to the MacBook's exhaust only fan with no circulation and no vents in the casing except around the fan.
Sigh. Its always ridiculous when people try to bring up this argument. Its completely inaccurate. The XPS is a system you buy because you care about vanity and because you want a portable.
The MacBook is generally the most popular MacBook and the one people buy because its the ONLY Apple notebook they can afford. As I've said many times before, nearly all people do not walk into an Apple store and see the MacBook and think "hmm its cheaper AND smaller" they look at the 15.4" and say "wow I can't afford this. But I can afford the smaller one".
Its perfectly reasonable to compare a standard notebook PC to a MacBook because, again, people are not buying it for its size. They are buying it because it is all they can afford.
And for $50 more than the middle MacBook, you get dedicated graphics with the XPS anyway. So its still well ahead of the MacBook.
Oh please. Whats premium about the MacBook? It's lacking standard connectivity (HDMI, eSATA, VGA/S-Video without adapters, full size ExpressCard, memory card readers), the casing is prone to cracking from regular use and heat, its prone to discoloring due to regular use and heat, and it uses integrated graphics. No "premium" computer would EVER have integrated graphics. Even the old last generation iBook still has better graphics than the current MacBook!
Don't resort to school yard insults just because you don't like hearing the truth.
Dell and their "premium" designs are the only ones that use slot loaders.
Every one else, including Dell's "regular" notebooks, HP, Gateway, custom makers, Asus, etc. all use standard tray loaders that can be replaced by the end user.
Not true. Any PC in Best Buy, CC, Fry's, etc. with dedicated graphics will have HDMI outputs. You can even pick up a $750 HP with integrated graphics (ATI 3200) with an HDMI output and blu-ray. Again, HDMI was part of the Santa Rosa spec. It was up to the manufacturers to opt out of including it.
Two things. First, at least Dell gives you the option of buying a system at that price. What if that is all someone needs or all they can afford? At least PC manufacturers give you the choice of being able to pick and choose what hardware you want for what price. With Apple you either have to buy an expensive system that is not worth it (entry MacBook) or go up to a level ($1299) where you can get what could be considered a gaming PC.
At least Dell, HP, Gateway, and many others offer systems at all price ranges. Theres no reason for someone to spend $1100 on a computer if they only want to do a small amount of things. With integrated graphics, 1GB of RAM, and no DVD writer, that entry level MacBook is no better than that $450 Dell anyway. Except the Dell WOULD have a DVD writer!
Second thing, why bring up iLife? Again, iLife is essentially useless. iTunes is good in OS X, but not in Windows (Apple's fault). iPhoto is good, but there are better and free alternatives out there for Windows. Most people will never use iMovie, iDVD, or Garageband outside of opening it up and seeing what it looks like. I personally rather have the option of paying $100 less and not having iDVD, iMovie, and Garageband installed. Or let me spend $200 less and have NO iLIfe apps. Let me download iTunes for free and spend $25 to get iPhoto.
Most people still don't live around an Apple store either. I live in southern California and the closest Apple store is a good 70 mile round trip.
With PCs, however, you do get 24/7 support. It doesn't close on the weekends.
As someone who deals with HP on a nearly daily basis, HP service sucks *******. Absolutely the worst in the industry. Getting anything fixed through them is like pulling teeth. A lot of it is because they can't understand what you're saying, and vice versa, because you're always calling overseas. Even for business support. It's not until you call for a server problem that you get to someone that speaks English as their first language.
You'd be hard pressed to find a system with dedicated graphics that does NOT have HDMI output and is a current generation model.
I already said that Dell and their "premium" lines are using slot loaders. No other respectable manufacturer does.
Of all of Dell's sales, how many XPS and Studio systems are sold?
Exactly. I bet Dell sells less XPS and Studio systems than Apple sells Macs
Oh and 800 people voting on a survey does not represent the tens of millions of Vista users
Heh, you think Apple's build quality is good? THen tell me, why does the MacBook Pro have yellowing screen issues still? Why does it still have sound issues (electronic sounds coming out of the headphone/speaker jack)? Why does it warp from heat? Why does it bend and scratch? Why does the case start to separate due to heat? Why does the MacBook still have cracking issues on the palmrest? Why does the MacBook crack on the bottom due to heat? Why does it crack around the vent due to heat? Why does it turn yellow on the bottom due to heat? Why does it turn yellow around the vents due to heat?
Have you watched your CPU use at all? Play a DVD in OS X versus Windows. Browse the web and watch Firefox or Safari's CPU use in OS X versus Windows. Look at Flash performance in OS X versus Windows.
ANd yes, I have run benchmarks. First of all, games. Even on the pathetic GPUs that Apple includes in the MacBooks, games tend to run twice as fast in Windows versus OS X. I've run Handbrake on both my HP and my Mac. MacBook: 2.16GHz Core 2 Duo 3GB of RAM. HP: 2GHz Core 2 Duo, 3GB of RAM. Handbrake finished faster on the HP by a few seconds.
But I'm not just talking about raw speed (its painfully obvious to anyone who monitors CPU usage that OS X and 3rd party OS X software eats up more CPU cycles than Windows), I'm talking about application loading time as well. Thanks to the way Windows Vista works, all of my most frequently used software loads instantly on a fresh boot. I click the FF icon and its there. I click AIM and its there. I click MSN and its there. Even iTunes. I click it and it opens nearly instantly. In OS X after a fresh boot I have to wait several seconds for each application to open.
Sounds like you're doing something wrong, because Vista is always slower than OSX on identical hardware in actual benchmarking, not sitting there saying "ooh it feels faster" as your description reads.
On my 400Mhz TiBook, everything pops right up; it's just there. Very fast boot time, very responsive. Not quite sure what you could have done to make your MacBook slow; I guess it is possible for a user to screw it up.
The problem is, there's not a whole helluva lot of truth in what you're saying. To me you're just some typical user who doesn't know what they're doing, doesn't know what they're talking about, and then slagging a company for it on a web forum.
I was actually an Apple fanboy. I loved my Mac. Then I started experiencing OS X's crashing problems. Then about 3 months after I got my first MacBook I noticed that, for half the price, I could have gotten something with a similar processor, 17" screen, twice the memory, twice the HDD space, and a GeForce Go 7600. My MacBook couldn't even choke out a good 30fps in a then 3 year old game at medium settings at 800x600, yet a system costing half as much could run the same game (UT2k4) at native display resolution, max settings, solid 60fps. I realized then that I was a fool for buying into the Apple Hype and that I made a huge mistake buying my MacBook. I should have taken that refund that Apple offered.
Yup
Thats an awesome system. I'd buy it if I was in the market right now. That just blows away all of the Macs out there and it costs half as much as the MacBook Pro 17"!
Heh heh I like that.
Again, people who judge a computer based solely on the specs of the computer should just go out and buy their ****** consumer laptop at Best Buy. Enjoy their crappy support, enjoy the bloatware it has installed, and be happy.
As someone who's worked with computers for a living, it's absolutely painful to read posts from guys like you, because some people actually believe your ********, and it's dismaying. It's worse than going to Tigerdirect and listening to the ******* salespeople there tell customers the wrong information.
mosx.
You often ask for proof - you are given it, in the form of of surveys. One survey polled 800 people the other 3000. I think these polls surveyed more people than the evidence of "mosx and everyone he knows".
There have been approx 260 million Vista licenses sold (and a number of those are actually not using Vista but XP) - but that's less than a 20% uptake rate of total users. Looks like Jerry's got his work cut out. Maybe he can drop by Intel first and convince them - it appears they're sticking with XP until Windows 7 comes out. If Vista is so good and cuts all of the security and compatibility problems - business would be running to it with open arms. It would be saving them so much money. Maybe they can keep delaying 7 until everyone has finally given up as they did with XP.
You even ask me to prove your arguments for you. You say the iLife apps are not used and are useless, then ask me to come up with the information to prove you right.
Normally when a person make a statement as fact they can usually follow it up with some evidence.
Too sum up.
1. You proved for me that Vista does not have a full set of of iLife comparable apps pre-installed.
2. You have been unable to prove that people don't use iWeb and Garageband. You did in fact twist my original comment that these apps were available at start up and could do the job. The number of user groups and forums for these apps prove you wrong. Not forgetting that Oasis and Justice use GB and a Radiohead song is for sale on iTunes that is provided with a code that allows users to tinker with it in Garageband. You lose twice (once for twisting my argument and once for just being wrong)
3. You have now agreed that lots of people have basic video cameras (thats after telling me they didn't) and obviously they could use iMovie to edit them.
Then you told me no one edits these movies but then contradict yourself by saying people use VirtualDub to edit (like trimming the ends and adding sound I guess). So you lost the argument about possession of video cameras and then lose the argument about editing.
4. You have not proved iWeb and Garageband are useless. (see number 2). Obviously it will be difficult to prove seeing as not only are there user groups all over the world but professional musicians who are using Garageband too.
5. You have agreed that Vista doesn't ship with DVD decoders on all versions built in. Can you prove they all come with some third party compatible suite and that it has no compatibility problems?
6. You state that Mac users are elitist, foolish and look down on people and Apple fanboys and some PC users are they are just as ignorant as the average Mac user. These comments are designed to stir up an off topic emotional response and are therefore - trolling. The fact that you keep doing it - and getting the same response means you are aware you are doing it.
7. You implied that Windows pre-installed apps were inferior when you said "its just not publicized because, quite honestly, nobody uses them". You only implied - so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and give you that one.
Where as people really are using iApps.
8. I showed that lots of people have downgraded from Vista, you showed a continued lack of knowledge for how surveys work.
9. I quote you a survey about people downgrading - thus OEMs continue to offer XP on a range of machines up to 2.5 years after Vista was released. I even quoted your beloved HP on this who said they were offering it on a range of machines not just business PCs. It's a supply and demand thing. Lots of people downgrading meant OEM's exploit a loophole in their MS contracts and sell XP but under a Vista license (LOL).
10. Companies with monopolistic convictions are not offering choice. Thats why they have been convicted.
People are not choosing XP because they think how lucky that MS gave them the choice .... They're choosing it because they think Vista is crap or not worth the upgrade. Now that is laughable. This is another argument that you tried to twist but I'm afraid you lose again.
11. You did not to prove that Vista runs faster than XP. (don't forget to ask all 260 million licenses)
12. You agree that you didn't do much research (playing in an Apple store and buying into hype isn't research). And I still say - considering features that were important to you - like a large screen, card reader and games. I can understand you not noticing one of these - but all of them.
13. You admit you were stupid and in your opinion made a mistake. That's fair enough we all make them.
14. Viruses etc are still a major problem - otherwise they wouldn't exist. Just because you've never had one doesn't mean it's not true. If I google Vista viruses well over 3,00,000 web pages about it, are indexed. Apparently malware is down 60% on Vista - but that's still a lot of malware.
On a side note I was just reading reviews (very recent) of Vista. One person acclaimed Vista for being great, he'd had no problems what so ever installing. He had been forced however to turned off "User Account Control" as it had stopped Outlook working but otherwise everything was dandy.
Regarding price - You continue to be an evangelist on price when we all know this. We knew it before you came and we continue to know it.
Build quality - has Apple got it wrong with the MB - yes it looks like it has. Apple make mistakes (like everyone) - this is not news. Do I wish the world was perfect - yes - but its not.
Although I spoke to my brother-in-law about his HP pavillion laptop - its about 6 months old. Apparently he doesn't like to leave it on his lap for long because it gets too hot. He says it is far better on a table. Although he did say it improved since he downgraded to XP.
You often ask for proof - you are given it, in the form of of surveys. One survey polled 800 people the other 3000. I think these polls surveyed more people than the evidence of "mosx and everyone he knows".
There have been approx 260 million Vista licenses sold (and a number of those are actually not using Vista but XP) - but that's less than a 20% uptake rate of total users. Looks like Jerry's got his work cut out. Maybe he can drop by Intel first and convince them - it appears they're sticking with XP until Windows 7 comes out. If Vista is so good and cuts all of the security and compatibility problems - business would be running to it with open arms. It would be saving them so much money. Maybe they can keep delaying 7 until everyone has finally given up as they did with XP.
You even ask me to prove your arguments for you. You say the iLife apps are not used and are useless, then ask me to come up with the information to prove you right.
Normally when a person make a statement as fact they can usually follow it up with some evidence.
Too sum up.
1. You proved for me that Vista does not have a full set of of iLife comparable apps pre-installed.
2. You have been unable to prove that people don't use iWeb and Garageband. You did in fact twist my original comment that these apps were available at start up and could do the job. The number of user groups and forums for these apps prove you wrong. Not forgetting that Oasis and Justice use GB and a Radiohead song is for sale on iTunes that is provided with a code that allows users to tinker with it in Garageband. You lose twice (once for twisting my argument and once for just being wrong)
3. You have now agreed that lots of people have basic video cameras (thats after telling me they didn't) and obviously they could use iMovie to edit them.
Then you told me no one edits these movies but then contradict yourself by saying people use VirtualDub to edit (like trimming the ends and adding sound I guess). So you lost the argument about possession of video cameras and then lose the argument about editing.
4. You have not proved iWeb and Garageband are useless. (see number 2). Obviously it will be difficult to prove seeing as not only are there user groups all over the world but professional musicians who are using Garageband too.
5. You have agreed that Vista doesn't ship with DVD decoders on all versions built in. Can you prove they all come with some third party compatible suite and that it has no compatibility problems?
6. You state that Mac users are elitist, foolish and look down on people and Apple fanboys and some PC users are they are just as ignorant as the average Mac user. These comments are designed to stir up an off topic emotional response and are therefore - trolling. The fact that you keep doing it - and getting the same response means you are aware you are doing it.
7. You implied that Windows pre-installed apps were inferior when you said "its just not publicized because, quite honestly, nobody uses them". You only implied - so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and give you that one.
Where as people really are using iApps.
8. I showed that lots of people have downgraded from Vista, you showed a continued lack of knowledge for how surveys work.
9. I quote you a survey about people downgrading - thus OEMs continue to offer XP on a range of machines up to 2.5 years after Vista was released. I even quoted your beloved HP on this who said they were offering it on a range of machines not just business PCs. It's a supply and demand thing. Lots of people downgrading meant OEM's exploit a loophole in their MS contracts and sell XP but under a Vista license (LOL).
10. Companies with monopolistic convictions are not offering choice. Thats why they have been convicted.
People are not choosing XP because they think how lucky that MS gave them the choice .... They're choosing it because they think Vista is crap or not worth the upgrade. Now that is laughable. This is another argument that you tried to twist but I'm afraid you lose again.
11. You did not to prove that Vista runs faster than XP. (don't forget to ask all 260 million licenses)
12. You agree that you didn't do much research (playing in an Apple store and buying into hype isn't research). And I still say - considering features that were important to you - like a large screen, card reader and games. I can understand you not noticing one of these - but all of them.
13. You admit you were stupid and in your opinion made a mistake. That's fair enough we all make them.
14. Viruses etc are still a major problem - otherwise they wouldn't exist. Just because you've never had one doesn't mean it's not true. If I google Vista viruses well over 3,00,000 web pages about it, are indexed. Apparently malware is down 60% on Vista - but that's still a lot of malware.
On a side note I was just reading reviews (very recent) of Vista. One person acclaimed Vista for being great, he'd had no problems what so ever installing. He had been forced however to turned off "User Account Control" as it had stopped Outlook working but otherwise everything was dandy.
Regarding price - You continue to be an evangelist on price when we all know this. We knew it before you came and we continue to know it.
Build quality - has Apple got it wrong with the MB - yes it looks like it has. Apple make mistakes (like everyone) - this is not news. Do I wish the world was perfect - yes - but its not.
Although I spoke to my brother-in-law about his HP pavillion laptop - its about 6 months old. Apparently he doesn't like to leave it on his lap for long because it gets too hot. He says it is far better on a table. Although he did say it improved since he downgraded to XP.
Not at all. I'd guess that almost every Mac owner would be happy to see some of the features that are slowly becoming mainstream on PCs start to be included with Macs.Is there something wrong with wanting a Mac to have hardware that PC competitors have available?
You said "In fact, I have yet to talk to someone in a real world situation (even in an Apple store) that likes DVD menus." I was simply giving you a real world situation of people that liked DVD menus.
Can you please cite a freeware example of what you're talking about. I've found menus so easy to create in iDVD that I'd love to see a Windows freeware program that does it easier and creates as professional of a result.
You said "But uninstalling software in Leopard generally leaves behind a mess of .plist files in various folders that you have to hunt down and destroy". What you didn't say that Windows acts the exact same way (where the responsibility of removing user preferences upon uninstall is left to the application), and in addition, those orphaned preferences consume system memory.
Anecdotal. My anecdotal response is that when there is a "real problem" with Apple equipment, the forums here and elsewhere are full of busy threads complaining about the issues. The MacBook forums show none of that activity currently, so I wouldn't call that a current real problem. What criteria are you using to call it a real problem.
The point wasn't whether or not there was an option.Well, Sony's junk is generally just that. Junk. They use low quality components like Apple and then bump up the price to Apple-like heights.
Gateway's T Series does? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8892861&type=product&id=1211587728253 hmm not there it doesn't.
Some do some don't. You have an OPTION *gasp*. But I know you Apple fan's can't grasp the concept of "options" in a computer
The point was your unqualified statement that "On PC notebooks you just power down, remove the battery, loosen a single screw and pull the drive out", and that Apple's design is "stupid", but you fail to mention that the same "stupid" design is just now starting to be adopted by some high-end PC notebook manufacturers. Threads with you are fun. You start out making very broad statements that are typically not totally accurate, and as people start to point out in the inaccuracies, you spin.
The best spins are when you reply to a fact with your subjective opinion and then precede to act like everyone else on the fact of the planet shares your thoughts.
I've got the MacBook and I absolutely LOVE it. The screen size and quality is fine and it's very portable. However, my parents just bought a 15" Laptop (PC) and I was impressed with that particular size. Seems quite a bit larger than my 13" but it's not huge and heavy like most 17" laptops.
If you really want a Mac and your worried about price, go with the MacBook.
Cheers.
If you really want a Mac and your worried about price, go with the MacBook.
Cheers.
I've had my MacBook for almost a year now and I must say, I absolutely love this machine. I've had limited experience with computers. This is only my 3rd personal machine, previously sharing one Dell desktop and one E-Machine desktop with my wife and working with one Dell desktop and one IBM desktop with my employers. Of the 5 computers, I experienced a rapid decline in quality in 3 of them - my MacBook and current work IBM still working great (the IBM is only 6 months old). Two years from now, if my MacBook is still running as it is now and I'm not changing laundry or doing dishes while waiting for it to power up or for anything to load, then I will truly be sold on Apple's quality and longevity.
It's not a true complaint, but my only beef with Apple would be the screensize. The MBP is just too much machine for me to pay the money for bigger screen. So I "settled" for a 13.3" MacBook. Obviously it's not a huge issue since I made the switch. I really appreciate Apple for keeping their line-up simple and their base models I've seen are comparable to any other company's mid-level models. While not a huge market for it, I think Apple may be able to win over a few more souls if they offered a 15'4" and possibly even 17" "prosumers" models as well as a 13.3" MBP.
It's not a true complaint, but my only beef with Apple would be the screensize. The MBP is just too much machine for me to pay the money for bigger screen. So I "settled" for a 13.3" MacBook. Obviously it's not a huge issue since I made the switch. I really appreciate Apple for keeping their line-up simple and their base models I've seen are comparable to any other company's mid-level models. While not a huge market for it, I think Apple may be able to win over a few more souls if they offered a 15'4" and possibly even 17" "prosumers" models as well as a 13.3" MBP.
I only sound like a troll to those who can't stand hearing the truth
I've already said that I love my iPhone and my iPods. Its just that Apple's computers are not where they should be, spec wise.
I would like Apple's computers if they were priced more appropriately. For example, the $1099 MacBook should not even exist. The $1299 MacBook should be $999 WITH dedicated graphics on par with a GeForce 8400M GT (not GS any more) or 9300M GS or ATI's Radeon 3450.
Apple doesn't like DRM? Heh. You've never heard of the iTunes Music Store, right? More DRM than any other music store or source of music on the planet. How about the App Store, where Apple rejects apps for whatever reason they wish?
Or how about Apple's strict rules with DVD Player? They add DRM into that app that is not even required by the DVD Forum or to obtain a CSS license.
Thank you
Good to see someone else with some common sense. No I didn't. You just didn't read the rest of my post
All of the musicians I know laugh at Garageband and wouldn't touch it. These are professional musicians that perform live shows and sell professionally pressed CDs.
They all rely on PCs with professional level soundcards and more advanced software and equipment. Any musician that records music with an integrated sound processor shouldn't be allowed to make music.
For the cost of a MacBook with a DVD writer, you can get yourself a PC setup with some very nice professional level audio equipment. You can't deny that.
Never used the previous version of iMovie? There was a huge outcry here and at other Apple forums when iMovie '08 was released. So much so that it forced Apple to make the previous version available for download for all who wanted ot use it.
If someone cares about quality, they are NOT going to use Garageband and their MacBook's (or any Mac) integrated sound processor. They're going to want an E-mu or M-Audio soundcard along with Pro Tools Software.
And as I said before, you can build a desktop PC with a good E-mu or M-Audio card plus the Pro Tools HD Software package for less than the cost of a MacBook with a DVD writer.
So somehow using two separate keyboard shortcuts is better than using one?
I've had mixed results with both companies. With Apple I've had people who obviously speak Spanish as a first language (which makes me wonder if they're in this country legally) and with HP I've sometimes been connected with someone in the US on the first try. It's about 50/50 with both companies.
The great thing is that I can set up a repair on a Saturday night with HP, while Apple I have to wait until Monday morning.
Good job ignoring everything I said.
First of all, I pointed out that Handbrake and other video encoders finished faster in Vista than in OS X. Same software, similar hardware.
Secondly, I pointing out CPU usage. Care to show me that iTunes, Safari, Firefox, Mail, and others don't use more CPU use on OS X than their Vista counterparts when my experience is the exact opposite?
Do you also have PROOF of your claims of OS X being faster? I don't mean year and a half old benchmarks either. Benchmarks that test the final released to customers version of Service Pack 1 for Vista as well as modern drivers for the chipset and GPU (drivers that were updated for and released after SP1).
Heheh. Of course. It's NEVER Apple or OS X's fault. Just like OS X locking up on me is somehow MY fault. You know, somehow my emptying the Trash of jpg files or even moving my mouse, or not doing anything at all causes OS X to lock up while WIndows runs rock solid on the same hardware.
Your 400MHz PowerBook? Please. You can't even run modern software on it. So of course all of that older software will launch faster.
I'm simply stating a fact, that software opens faster on Vista thanks to the way its designed than OS X.
rofl, yeah. Someone who has been building PCs from the ground up for more than a decade and using computers longer than most people in this forum, dating back to the DOS days, somehow doesn't know what he is doing. Right.
Again, Apple's problems are NEVER their fault. They're perfect. They're just short of God status. It's always the users fault.
What bloatware? My HP came with a Norton trial and thats it. My MacBook came with an Office trial, an iWork trial, and a bunch of board games, printer drivers (over 1GB!) and language translations that I did not need.
Apple's support is good? Really? Then why can't I call them on the weekends or after 6PM local time? Why, within the first year, do I have to pay $60 a call for software support after 90 days?
If Apple's support is so good, why did I have the experience I did? First, my MacBook was sent in for a dead DVD writer and the typical Apple Build Quality issues. It was yellowing from heat and the case was separating around the vents due to heat. Sent the notebook in to Flextronics, Apple's contracted repair facility for MacBooks at that time. It came back with the DVD drive untouched. But the new case was scratched to all hell and back. Sent it back out. DVD drive was rendered essentially useless (it could at least mount and read discs before, but not burn them), and the new case was scratched to all hell again. Now on to the replacement MacBook. Again, build quality issues. Case started separating. Palm rest, lower right corner. Battery started to warp as well. Sent it in. Comes back with a new case. Scratched to all hell again. Battery not replaced but scratched. Sent it back out again. Repeat, but this time it has a new battery that is also scratched up. Third time it went out and the Apple customer relations person told them to leave the plastics on so they didn't scratch it. What a concept! It finally came back repaired properly. Out of the 18 months I've had a MacBook it has been in Apple's hands for 1.5 of them. Oh want to know something even better? When everything started with my second MacBook I received a call from Ken Bell, one of Apple's executive customer relations. He basically accused me of being out to take Apple for a ride and get my money back as well as acting like an all around jerk. Yeah, that's quality customer support right there.
So you "work with computers for a living", right? If you're recommending people use a MacBook with Garageband and the MacBook's own sound hardware for recording then.. well, that basically says it all.
Polling 800 or 3,000 people doesn't represent everyone as a whole. That's sort of like going to some backwater town in the south populated by say.. 5,000 people and asking them who they think will win the election and then every news organization out there using those poll results to say that the one candidate WILL win.
That small amount of people does NOT represent the tens of millions of people voting this November the same way that those 800 or 3,000 people do NOT represent the tens of millions of people who have bought Vista or Vista loaded PCs.
You're referring to the fact that there are well over 1 billion Windows PCs in the world.
Which is kind of an idiotic thing to do.
You're completely overlooking the fact that the majority of those PCs are in countries where the people simply cannot afford to upgrade their hardware to a level that can run Vista. Nearly all of these PCs are running hardware that was high end around the time XP was launched, maybe even weaker.
It's completely idiotic to make that kind of comparison when the vast majority of those PCs simply cannot run Vista (nor would an equally as old Mac be able to run Leopard) and those PCs are generally in areas where they cannot be upgraded because of economic/money issues.
What about the people who are perfectly happy with what they have? You know, even though Apple is the definition of capitalism and the diehard fans support them by buying every single new product they release, some people are perfectly happy with buying a computer and then using it for several years. I know that concept is hard to grasp for an Apple fan. But there are people who are happy with what they have and don't see a reason to upgrade. Their computer still works good enough for them, the software they need still works for them.. if it all works the way they both want it to and need it to, why upgrade?
Do you have any idea how businesses work?
First of all, theres the cost of upgrading. What if their PCs need upgrading? Then you have not only the cost of upgrading the software (as well as acquiring new and updated versions of software to run within that new OS), then you have the cost of upgrading the hardware. Upgrading the hardware and software comes with two price tags. The initial cost of buying the products and then paying the people who install it. Then if things look or work slightly differently, theres the cost of retraining the staff that uses it as well as the cost of retraining the IT staff to learn the ins and outs of the new products.
And like I said before, if the software and hardware are both working the way the business needs and wants them to, why upgrade? Unless you're in content creation and need the latest and greatest hardware, Office really isn't going to run any "better" now than on older hardware. You can still make basic presentations, spreadsheets, pie charts, and type up reports just as good on Office XP as you can on Office 2007. So I say again, if everything is working the way you want it to and need it to, why upgrade?
If you're a small business owner in this economy, every dollar you spend counts. So why should a small business owner spend thousands of dollars upgrading hardware, software, and retraining everyone for what really amounts to no real world productivity increases and no real world profit increases? All mission critical software still runs on XP.
Because it doesn't have iWeb or Garageband? Well, as I proved, iWeb is useless without Mobile Me. Show me websites not hosted by Mobile Me that were made with iWeb. Respectable sites.
And as I said earlier in my post, Garageband is useless. If you're someone who wants to record podcasts, Audacity is designed for recording and editing. It's freeware, it's lightweight, has MANY more ADVANCED features that Garageband does not.
If you're a musician who uses Garageband then you need a good slap from reality. For less than the cost of a MacBook with a DVD writer you can have professional level equipment on the PC side along with a PC that will be comparable to a Mac Pro in terms of overall processing power.
Radiohead, Oasis, and Justice. Three bands that have had their careers either go downhill greatly over the last decade or are completely unknown. That basically proves MY point. Besides that song for "Romeo + Juliet" 12 years ago, what else has Radiohead ever been known for? What has Oasis ever been known for?
By pointing them out, you prove my point perfectly.
No respectable musician uses Garageband. Even indie bands (many I know of here in southern California and in the Las Vegas area) will not even go near Garageband. Even the hobbyists I know won't go near Garageband.
Again, show me respectable sites outside of Mobile Me that were made using iWeb.
rofl, nice way to try twist things around.
I said that a lot of people do have video functionality on their digital cameras or cellphones. And that people do NOT edit those because they are generally quick and low quality clips. And I did clearly state that the editing done is generally just putting in flying text or something like that to describe the video on youtube.
iMovie was originally geared towards full blown video cameras. Not low quality video taken by digital still cameras and cellphones.
My point stands that the majority of people DO NOT own those types of cameras. And my point still stands that the majority of video from digital still cameras and cellphones is NOT edited in any form or fashion. You want proof? Go spend 5 minutes at youtube.
I mean, honestly, this part of your post did have me literally laughing out loud. Your attempt at trying to twist my argument is every bit as idiotic as your statement about Windows users not upgrading.
Heh, prove it. Not some washed up 1 hit wonder band from the 90s either. You can drive around southern California or Las Vegas and find more bands with indie contracts or their own professionally pressed CDs with large followings that will NOT touch Garageband than those "professional musicians" who do use Garageband.
As I said before, for less than the cost of a MacBook with a DVD writer, you can get professional level equipment and a PC comparable to a Mac Pro.
You're ignoring other things I said. Again, twisting the details in ridiculously stupid fashion.
Every version of Vista that a home user would want ships with a DVD decoder. As for computers loaded with Home Basic, every computer I see with Home Basic on newegg.com and walmart.com currently ships with a DVD player of some sort. For Vista Business, that is up to the manufacturer to include one. Generally, Dell and HP include full multi-media suites for their business line because they know that there are a large number of people who travel with those computers.
Also, every modern piece of DVD playing software on Windows is now DXVA compatible
So even if you go pick up a cheap $399 notebook from Wal-Mart and it has nvidia or AMD/ATI integrated graphics, you get full hardware support out of your video playback. Please explain to me how a 3rd party DVD player can cause compatibility issues? haha. I find that funny. If 3rd party DVD players caused problems, Cyberlink, Intervideo/Corel, and many others would have been out of business way back in the 90s. I've never heard of or seen a 3rd party DVD player causing problems. Never.
Stating a fact is not trolling.
Again, you're twisting things and completely ignoring many things I said.
Once again, people DO NOT use the "iApps". Prove that they do.
Second, you ignored a very significant point that I made. When it comes to video editing, any respectable digital video camera WILL ship with editing software that is far superior to iMovie and iDVD. It will ship with the FULL version and it will be FREE. As I pointed out, even my now 4 year old PCI TV tuner that I had used in desktops shipped with full versions of uLead video editing and DVD making software. Full versions. And that card was only $60 back in 2004.
So, as I said and you ignored, why would people use low quality built-in apps like iMovie or iDVD or DVD Maker or Movie Maker when their DV cam ships with higher quality software?
Why would someone use iWeb to make a website when you have to jump through all kinds of hoops to get it to work on host that is NOT Mobile Me?
Why would a respectable musician who cares about the quality of their music (sound quality and overall quality) buy a MacBook for Garageband when, for less than the cost of that MacBook, they could get a professional level setup?
You showed that a handful of people on a forum or two downgraded. You didn't show any real evidence that a large number of people downgraded. Even if that outrageously large and inaccurate number of 30% downgraded, that still leaves 182m (of that 260m figure you gave) using Vista. Thats still more than 7x as many people using Vista than there are using Macs total (according to the last time Apple gave the number of Mac owners out there).
You can make fun of people downgrading Vista all you want. It makes Apple look foolish when they do that and it makes the people who quote those statistics look foolish. Why? Because as much as you make fun of Microsoft "failing" when 30% of people want to use XP (not a real number anyway) over Vista, that does NOT change the fact that for every ONE Mac user there is SEVEN people using Vista.
Yeah. You quoted HP as saying they still offered XP on their gaming systems. At the time that person supposedly made those remarks, HP only offered XP on one very low-end consumer notebook (that cost around $400) and one very low-end consumer desktop.
They only offer XP on a small number of business units now.
Very few companies offer XP on a very small number of systems.
And again, as I said, using this kind of argument "against" Vista is absolutely hilarious and makes those who use it look extremely foolish. Even if that high number was accurate, that still does not change the fact that there are 7 Vista users for every one Mac user.
Again, this is silly. You're trying to say Vista is crap because some rogue forum or website claims 30% of people "downgraded" to XP? Are you serious?
I hate to sound like a broken record here, but that doesn't change the fact that there are more than 7x as many people using Vista than there are Mac users total.
When you sell 260m of something, there are bound to be people who don't like it no matter what. It's human nature.
Even when you sell Apple's numbers, there are bound to be people who don't like it. The difference is that Apple's followers are VERY vocal and like to silence those who speak out against Apple.
Anyway, you're not in any position to call Microsoft a monopoly considering Apple's recent moves. Look at how they treat apps on the App Store. Look how they still lock music from iTunes into the iPod and how they've locked the iPod and iPhone into iTunes. Look how they actively lock the iPhone, against US laws, into a service agreement with AT&T. Apple is more controlling and monopolistic than Microsoft ever was.
The difference here is that the Apple fans applaud it. If Apple had the same marketshare as Microsoft and tried to use these tactics, I can guarantee you Apple would have already run into at least the same legal trouble. Microsoft got in trouble for bundling IE. With Apple's lock-in tactics, can you imagine how much trouble they would be in? It's only a matter of time before someone with money, whether it be a private user or a group of businesses or content creators, someone will step up and challenge Apple's ways of locking people, devices, and material in (or out of the App Store).
So somehow, benchmarks performed by respectable websites with links I provided are not valid?
Sigh. Again, you're twisting things I said and ignoring others.
I used Macs all throughout junior high and high school in the 90s. I have several friends who have Macs. Outside of school, I easily logged 100 hours or so of use with OS X dating back from 10.0 (my girlfriend at that time had an iBook with it) all the way up to Tiger when I bought my MacBook.
What turned me off to the Mac was the fact that OS X DOES randomly crash (I didn't get enough individual use on systems to see this for myself, though I read a lot about it online.. but those posts and remarks were always silenced by Apple fanboys as someone doing something wrong, so I believed that). After I realized OS X wasn't as good as everyone made it out to be, thats when I realized I got ripped off on the hardware.
I bought my MacBook thinking that I was going to be getting this fantastic software experience that was second to none. I had good experiences with OS X up to that point and every Apple fanboy out there makes their voice heard above the naysayers, so you only hear good things.
Then I found out the harsh reality and realized just how much better hardware I could have gotten, seeing as how the software truly wasn't any better than Windows.
Why buy for software when the software really isn't that good? Better to buy better hardware.
Buying a Mac for OS X and the included software is a mistake. Thats a fact. Not an opinion.
Because using a general term to google represents the overall number of real threats?
I can google "Mac Crash" and get 800,000 results. What does that tell you? Absolutely nothing considering nearly all of the results I had were completely unrelated to Macs crashing. Much the same way nearly all of the results for "Vista Viruses" lead to people asking questions about potential virus threats under Vista. Nice try and fail though.
In reply to this and the previous reply:
Since you're in a googling mood, you might want to google that story about how UAC blocked every single "Rootkit" installation attempt.
The only way you can get a virus or any form of malware on Vista or XP SP2/3 is to go to a malicious site, actively download the file against all of the warnings Windows/IE/FF give you, install it despite the warnings from Windows, and run it while overriding all of the security in Windows.
If you say otherwise then you prove that you do not have any experience with Windows.
Thats funny, because Vista has better built-in hardware controls. It's better about running the CPU and other components at lower clock speeds which result in lower heat.
IT also has proper cooling. Meaning it takes air in at the hottest point and blows it out the back. There is literally no spot for it to get as hot as a MacBook or MacBook Pro or MacBook Air does.
Considering your other comments in this thread and others, as well as your methods of twisting arguments and downright complete dishonesty, I question the honesty of this remark.
Heh. No offense, but if you think iDVD produces professional results then your standards are quite low.
So I'm assuming the last time you used Windows was uh.. 1993? Applications fully uninstall themselves these days. Sometimes a rogue registry entry will get left behind. But ccleaner takes care of that.
Haven't been to www.apple.com/support lately?
Likewise, you're ignoring the multi-thread page here in this forum thats relatively new and talking about palmrest cracking.
Ah but see, you're still missing the point.
If you go look at those PCs with slot loaders, like the Gateway T Series, it is still user serviceable. It can still be removed by the user by loosening a screw or two. It is NOT integrated into the case.
My point still stands that VERY FEW PCs actually have their slot loading drives integrated into the case.
The majority of PCs that do use slot loaders have it set up the same way as they do their tray loaders. The user can replace it without performing surgery.
I don't spin anything. It's generally the Mac users who don't like hearing the truth. Or they go off on dishonest rants and ignore facts and spin facts such as the post above yours.
I post no opinion.
Everything I say, like Vista software using less CPU time than OS X software, or Vista being faster, or Windows in general having technology that OS X doesn't.. thats a fact.
Mosx I just want to point out two things that you're getting wrong. Otherwise, your other arguments I don't want to reply because I like PC's.
(1) A lot of these "facts" about the iLife software are still subjective. Your professional media friends love their windows software because it's what they are familiar with. There are teenagers that work on garageband and love it. They very well might be the next greatest musicians. Garageband is a start, and that's all it is. If Apple wanted to market that to professional musicans, then they would not be promoting Logic or Live. It's the same for iMovie: man, there's Final Cut Pro. And also, those professional programs your friends use; those are thousands of dollars. I have Acid Pro 5 and 6 for my windows machine, and they cost me a grand. Garageband comes with the mac, user-friendly, and pretty too. (Personally, I use Reason on my mac).
(2) Another "fact" to you that is subjective is the short-cut keys. I find Apple's implementation of the alt-tab key more "logical." In windows you use it to flip through the windows of each application. However, in OSX, it logically breaks it down for you:
Whereas Cmd-Tab is to move through each application,
Then Cmd~ is to move through the windows of the open application.
It makes common sense to separate two completely different functions.
(1) A lot of these "facts" about the iLife software are still subjective. Your professional media friends love their windows software because it's what they are familiar with. There are teenagers that work on garageband and love it. They very well might be the next greatest musicians. Garageband is a start, and that's all it is. If Apple wanted to market that to professional musicans, then they would not be promoting Logic or Live. It's the same for iMovie: man, there's Final Cut Pro. And also, those professional programs your friends use; those are thousands of dollars. I have Acid Pro 5 and 6 for my windows machine, and they cost me a grand. Garageband comes with the mac, user-friendly, and pretty too. (Personally, I use Reason on my mac).
(2) Another "fact" to you that is subjective is the short-cut keys. I find Apple's implementation of the alt-tab key more "logical." In windows you use it to flip through the windows of each application. However, in OSX, it logically breaks it down for you:
Whereas Cmd-Tab is to move through each application,
Then Cmd~ is to move through the windows of the open application.
It makes common sense to separate two completely different functions.
Radiohead, Oasis, and Justice. Three bands that have had their careers either go downhill greatly over the last decade or are completely unknown. That basically proves MY point. Besides that song for "Romeo + Juliet" 12 years ago, what else has Radiohead ever been known for? What has Oasis ever been known for?
Radiohead is widely considered to be the best band in the world, even though that would be a ridiculous claim to argue in this forum (any forum, really). You might want to turn the lights down, grab a tasty beverage and give them a listen one day. Surely your Zune has enough space for a few more tracks?
Radiohead is widely considered to be the best band in the world, even though that would be a ridiculous claim to argue in this forum (any forum, really). You might want to turn the lights down, grab a tasty beverage and give them a listen one day. Surely your Zune has enough space for a few more tracks?
Don't feel like quoting it, but PCs are not the industry standard for professional audio recording.
The greats of the industry know and understand that Pro Tools HD runs at its best on a Mac Pro. Using a laptop to run Pro Tools is like using a skillet to make tea. (Maybe not quite, but you get the point.)
REAL professional recording engineers aren't going to use M-Audio or EMU.
Just no. The fidelity is just terrible.
The greats of the industry know and understand that Pro Tools HD runs at its best on a Mac Pro. Using a laptop to run Pro Tools is like using a skillet to make tea. (Maybe not quite, but you get the point.)
REAL professional recording engineers aren't going to use M-Audio or EMU.
Just no. The fidelity is just terrible.
laptops can run protools just fine... but its impossible to get a laptop to run HD.. (unless theres an express slot adapter that allows you to hook up PCIe cards)
and yes, real professionals aren't going to be using converters that cost $500
I have and will continue to do so.
I'm twisting nothing. I originally asked you if all versions of Vista had a DVD player pre-installed.
You said they don't. Asking about compatibility of third party players seems to be the logical thing to do - its called research. If I ever upgrade my XP machine or replace it - I want to make the right choice.
. You once said
Calling mac users elitist, idiots and fools who look down on people is therefore trolling. (and thats not the complete list of insults you've used here).
How can I be twisting things when I'm basically agreeing with you
Quote: Chappers
You implied that Windows pre-installed apps were inferior when you said "its just not publicized because, quite honestly, nobody uses them". You only implied - so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and give you that one.
.
I have - user groups for both iWeb and GB around the world, professional bands, photographer etc etc and no you don't need MobileMe. Apple even explains how to publish your iWebsite without it, and its not difficult.
I didn't ignore this point for any other reason than it is irrelevant to the fact that you can use iMovie. Its all part of the integrated suite thing. They are compatible with each other. If a user however choses to use other software they can of course.
Personal choice I guess
Explain the hoops to me and back them up - please don't tell me that you and all your friends know there are hoops.
I've never said anyone would use a MB and GB. Please don't twist that. I would say that Oasis and Radiohead with combined album sales of 75 million fit the "respectable" musician part but I don't know what Macs they use.
Just because there are more Vista users than Mac users - didn't prove you right last month and nothing has changed this month. I also didn't quote forums (another twist from you) I quoted PC websites. You have quoted you and your friends and nothing else.
I am not making fun of people downgrading - I think it's sad to be honest.
Repeating the "more Vista than Mac users" argument still doesn't prove your argument.
When you don't know when the comment was made by HP and by whom (you don't even know if its a man or woman) - how can you possibly know what they were selling at the time.
Still offering it in a loophole - good news.
More good news
Its still not proving your point. People aren't happy - MS have admitted they're worried by this. Must be very worried - $300 million advertising campaign.
I quoted a source - it explained its article and the survey. Of course you believe you and your friends.
That is the forth time and guess what - you still haven't proved your argument.
Obviously - and its enough to worry MS
Hypocrite
That one did make me smile.Have Apple done anything illegal - no. I can put music from any number of sources on the iPod. As for the rest of the argument - I know nothing of American law. I hate to sound sarcastic - you seem to know everything about how business works (from large corps - to small business) - The music industry and now law (and this aspect of law is highly complex and specialised)
Obviously you know something that others do not.
Checked your posts in response to my arguments - you have never posted any links. You do quote "you - your friends and everyone you know"
Most people are not experiencing these crashes you talk about - I used to under MACOS 9 etc but not now. Sorry but people would flock away not to Mac if you were right.
Personal choice and opinion - nothing wrong with that.
Can't argue with that - but those virus's are still there for your system and enough people are unwise enough to get fed up with the quirks of Vista's questions and turn off the system that is designed to protect them.
He said his leg gets hot - when he comes home again - I'll have a play with his HP.
Don't get personal and nasty - it's not very polite.
Mosx, I am not going to quote your windbag of a post, but the GarageBand thing? I was referring using interfaces such as Apogee, M-Audio, or Echo, not the onboard sound. There are plenty of pro musicians that use it for demoing. No, it's not the final product. But it's a far cry from "useless". To say otherwise is ridiculous. Also, please show me where I recommend using the internal sound card. I don't.
I have been doing audio recording on computers for over 10 years now, and I do believe I know a thing or two about it. I've used Cubase, Sonar (back to when it was still Cakewalk Pro Audio 7), Tracktion, and Reaper. GarageBand is a great tool, and sounds great with a good interface.
The TiBook; actually I am running Tracktion on it, as well as Office. Is that modern enough for you?
That's hysterical. You didn't prove *****.
iWeb is fine for family websites, and you can post it to any FTP site. You do know what FTP is, right? Therefore, not useless.
Support: HP has taken up to 6 weeks on repairs, and still not gotten it right. I've sent out over 30 laptops in the past 2 years. How many have you sent out? Dell; I had 5 RAID cards in servers go bad in 1 year (spread out over 3 clients), how many did you deal with? Twice as many failed SCSI drives. It also took them 4 visits to fix a tower with their "Gold Support". Yes, Apple is better in support too. You had a bad experience, it happens. But you're one person, with one or two computers. I've dealt with the other manufacturers on a far bigger scale than you have.
PCs built: I've built in the realm of 60 or so; how about you? I go back to DOS days as well. Let me know when the pissing match is over.
As for the install base of Vista that goes back to XP; for God sakes man; read the IT/computer news sites. Vista sucks. It's a flop. Nobody here is gonna spoon feed a troll like you when the information is a Google search away. It's painfully obvious.
Apple is not perfect. Obviously there are problems in certain areas, and they need to be fixed. But what it comes down to is that people here like OSX, and still like Macs. If they don't, and they continue to post here and try to prove everyone wrong all the time, guess what? They just look like trolls. Especially when someone like you starts posting opinions as facts, which is absolute laughable crap.
But continue posting, Mosx. I have fun reading your posts, because at least you're a funny troll.
I have been doing audio recording on computers for over 10 years now, and I do believe I know a thing or two about it. I've used Cubase, Sonar (back to when it was still Cakewalk Pro Audio 7), Tracktion, and Reaper. GarageBand is a great tool, and sounds great with a good interface.
The TiBook; actually I am running Tracktion on it, as well as Office. Is that modern enough for you?
That's hysterical. You didn't prove *****.
iWeb is fine for family websites, and you can post it to any FTP site. You do know what FTP is, right? Therefore, not useless.
Support: HP has taken up to 6 weeks on repairs, and still not gotten it right. I've sent out over 30 laptops in the past 2 years. How many have you sent out? Dell; I had 5 RAID cards in servers go bad in 1 year (spread out over 3 clients), how many did you deal with? Twice as many failed SCSI drives. It also took them 4 visits to fix a tower with their "Gold Support". Yes, Apple is better in support too. You had a bad experience, it happens. But you're one person, with one or two computers. I've dealt with the other manufacturers on a far bigger scale than you have.
PCs built: I've built in the realm of 60 or so; how about you? I go back to DOS days as well. Let me know when the pissing match is over.
As for the install base of Vista that goes back to XP; for God sakes man; read the IT/computer news sites. Vista sucks. It's a flop. Nobody here is gonna spoon feed a troll like you when the information is a Google search away. It's painfully obvious.
Apple is not perfect. Obviously there are problems in certain areas, and they need to be fixed. But what it comes down to is that people here like OSX, and still like Macs. If they don't, and they continue to post here and try to prove everyone wrong all the time, guess what? They just look like trolls. Especially when someone like you starts posting opinions as facts, which is absolute laughable crap.
But continue posting, Mosx. I have fun reading your posts, because at least you're a funny troll.
Percentage of users downgrading from Vista to XP:
http://weblog.infoworld.com/sentinel/archives/2008/08/bursting_the_vi.html
And the remainder probably just don't know they can downgrade, or don't know how (average home users).
As for the benchmarks, I'd be happy to provide you with a comprehensive test once I get my MacBook, Vista vs. XP vs. OSX vs. Ubuntu vs. SuSe vs. Fedora. What apps would you like me to use?
I'll be getting the book as soon as the new ones come out. Please let me know, Mosx.
Otherwise, do a search of the Geekbench db for current benchmarks.
http://weblog.infoworld.com/sentinel/archives/2008/08/bursting_the_vi.html
And the remainder probably just don't know they can downgrade, or don't know how (average home users).
As for the benchmarks, I'd be happy to provide you with a comprehensive test once I get my MacBook, Vista vs. XP vs. OSX vs. Ubuntu vs. SuSe vs. Fedora. What apps would you like me to use?
I'll be getting the book as soon as the new ones come out. Please let me know, Mosx.
Otherwise, do a search of the Geekbench db for current benchmarks.
I only sound like a troll to those who can't stand hearing the truth
You're a troll because you are deliberately rude to people as you have been to a number of people and that has nothing to do with anything but your rudeness.
I think you're getting desperate now - are you the only person in the universe who doesn't know the history of this.
Old news there - so they listened to their customers and provided old iMovie.
You are finally showing your true colours. With this type of ignorant bigoted posting you embarrass yourself.
This is patronising at best but continues the ignorance theme quite nicely.
I couldn't agree more. Obviously microsoft haven't provided a compelling enough reason to upgrade.
You gave your opinion on iWeb/Garageband but it continues not to prove your argument. Respectable ? Don't make me give you a list of websites made by "respectable" people. I'm happy too - but it's getting embarrassing.
Radiohead - 25 million albums sold worldwide. Last album in Rainbows Charted number 1 in USA (Jan 2008)
Oasis - 50 million albums - Resigned with Sony due to popularity resurgence. Last I heard they were on tour in Canada
You so lose that one.
More of mosx and everyone he knows.
Define respectable. iWeb is designed for the home user.
Its strange that you were so sarcastic over me saying people could use iMovie to edit their movies- you actually said
To which I replied "Actually a huge percentage of people do have video cameras these days (almost all digitals come with one) not forgetting phone video as well" and that you could use iMovie to edit. You bought Virtualdub and YouTube to the table as a defense for not noticing the wide spread access to video. You actually said EVERY video on youtube that has been edited was done by Virtualdub. Clearly not true. You lose again.
Thats because when it was created not everyone had video capability as they do today. Learn your history - you lose that too
This doesn't alter the fact that iMovie can be used. In fact during that 5 minutes I saw many very well edited movies on YouTube. Looks like you're wrong again
As I have shown I haven't twisted anything - please continue laughing and being rude. I am sad only in that you feel the need to to make unpleasant comments. Not only to you make these comments about me and Mac users in general you have now made nasty comments about a Hispanic person who was trying to help you on a helpline.
So being rude and saying "everyone I know" haven't won you any arguments and keep telling everyone that PC's are cheaper isn't exactly news (we know). It's one hell of a compulsion you have there.
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