What if Apple does not release a new MBP at WWDC in June?

[Mackinjosh]

I'm in the market for a new MBP, but won't be buying one until they address their obvious keyboard deficincies.

 

[turbineseaplane]

It would take quite a course correction by Apple to pry me off of my 2015 15" MBP.

 

[hajime]

This is a really sensible suggestion. I actually considered it myself. A mid-range iMac, combined with a lower end MacBook Pro 13" for days I need to be mobile. This doesn't come in much more than a top 15" MacBook Pro!

Apple released iMac Pro last year. I recall them saying that that have not forgotten Mac Pro users? So this year we will see new Mac Pro?

 

[leman]

Apple released iMac Pro last year. I recall them saying that that have not forgotten Mac Pro users? So this year we will see new Mac Pro?

Reports indicate the Mac Pro is coming not before 2019. The iMac Pro is this years model that is aiming to fill much of the pro-level niche.

 

[hajime]

Reports indicate the Mac Pro is coming not before 2019. The iMac Pro is this years model that is aiming to fill much of the pro-level niche.

Thanks for the info. Too bad it is not going to happen this year.

 

[leman]

Thanks for the info. Too bad it is not going to happen this year.

Is the iMac Pro not enough for you then? It uses new Xeon W-series CPUs which are optimised for performance (what Intel calls "mainstream workstation") as well as some of the fastest GPUs currently available. A Mac Pro will likely use scalable multi-socket Xeon systems as back in the day.
The iMac Pro will be faster than a single-CPU machine from the scalable family though. So most performance-oriented pro will probably be better served with the iMac version though, multi-CPU system will be only worth it for rather niche applications... think render farms and professional movie editing.

 

[hajime]

You are entitled to a refund within your return period. Apple will happily accept that because it is within your consumer rights.

However consumer rights don’t entitle anyone to keep buying and returning goods so that you only pay once. Many companies have various methods to prevent people from exploiting their return policies in this way.

Apple should just extend the trial period since they screwed up an excellent product line with design fault in the keyboard. If it were not the keyboard, I could have bought it last year.
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To add to that Windows itself is a real mess right now.

The macOS equivalent would be if the dock was from Yosemite but Finder and other utility apps were from Mavericks with some third party apps looking modern with most looking like they were from the Mountain Lion era.

Windows could look great though. Let’s see what Microsoft do with the next major release in the Fall.

I use Windows occasionally. It is Windows 7. Isn't Windows 10 much improved?! So if I jump ship to a Windows laptop, I would encounter all sorts of other issues?

I don't know why MBP can drive external 4K display at 60Hz but most Windows laptops can't. Probably only those heavy gaming laptops can do it.
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I didn't know Apple informed their retail staff on such matters beforehand.

I am afraid you are right. From what I heard from the threads posted in rumors, people in Apple stores don't know about it until the day or the day before actual release. Is that right?

Probably it was his own personal guess. He has a 2017 MBP and he hates the keyboard. Even I did not talk about the MBP 2018, he just suggested me to use it for two weeks and return it as there is a 80% chance that Apple would release a new MBP with keyboard issue fixed at WWDC.

 

[sputnikBA]

Apple should just extend the trial period since they screwed up an excellent product line with design fault in the keyboard. If it were not the keyboard, I could have bought it last year.

It’s not a trial period... but it’s not my job to try and save you from being stuck with something they might not let you return.

I’m just trying to help you - but if you feel your case is strong enough, then do what you want and see if Apple will allow you.

 

[hajime]

It’s not a trial period... but it’s not my job to try and save you from being stuck with something they might not let you return.

I’m just trying to help you - but if you feel your case is strong enough, then do what you want and see if Apple will allow you.

Thanks. I just noticed that the MBP 2017 I got has only 8 GB rather than 16GB.

 

[michael.richard1982]

They're not updating anything except the iGadgets at WWDC

--
"What's a computer?"

 

[hajime]

As of now, 17 forum users voted for getting a Windows laptop but only one user goes for Hackintosh. Why not getting a Windows laptop and make it dual boots (Windows 10 and Hackintosh?

 

[michael.richard1982]

I'm too worried about the long term stability of a hackintosh installation. I know it's easy now to get it started thanks to sites like TonyMacx86, but every minor update after the initial setup carries the risk of bricking your machine. Also, I do a lot of work in virtualization with vmware fusion on my mac and I worry this will not be well supported.

Windows is just the easier way now, sadly. Apple has given up on pro users and computers in general.

 

[jerryk]

As of now, 17 forum users voted for getting a Windows laptop but only one user goes for Hackintosh. Why not getting a Windows laptop and make it dual boots (Windows 10 and Hackintosh?

First, MacOS is only supported on Apple's specified hardware configurations. So with a Hackintosh you are taking on the role of a maintainer of a unsupported version of MacOS.

This can mean you dealing with a lot of configuration of the system because of your specific hardware. And things like automated updates can kill your system, until you fix config files and drivers, and deal with all of the special issues of running MacOS on your "foreign" hardware.

 

[CrazyForCashews]

All work are behind as my current MBP 2010 is dying (e.g. fan sounds like a vacuum clearer even immediately after a fresh restart and sometimes crazy lags as I type).

Clean the internals of the MacBook from dust and apply new thermal paste.

If you do those things, you might not even have to upgrade.

 

[hajime]

Clean the internals of the MacBook from dust and apply new thermal paste.

If you do those things, you might not even have to upgrade.

I opened it and surprisingly, it was quite clean. Haven't applied new thermal paste yet. Is it dangerous on the MBP? I have applied thermal paste to DIY PC before.

Unfortunately I still have to upgrade as 2010 MBP does not support 4K.

 

[afir93]

No. This is known as Return Fraud in the US and is illegal. Other countries may have similar laws and even for the ones that don't, the companies have policies in place to prevent this.

Consumer protections and refund rights only apply for reasonable returns, not to use products as a rental service.

I'm no expert on this topic but are you sure that only two(!) consecutive returns already make this law kick in? I mean I get what this law is for, but it sounds pretty ridiculous that, once you have returned a product once, you commit a crime by returning a similar product in the two or so weeks thereafter. I'm pretty sure that's not the case in my country and I'd be surprised if that's the legal situation in the US; two returns seem (in your words) like a perfectly reasonable amount to me.

What do you do for example if you simply just realized two times consecutively that the model you ordered didn't have the specs that your needs require, or if both models shipped with some sort of defect (not exactly rare with the butterfly keyboards), or with some annoyance/downside that you didn't realize beforehand, or any combination of these?

 

[hajime]

I'm too worried about the long term stability of a hackintosh installation. I know it's easy now to get it started thanks to sites like TonyMacx86, but every minor update after the initial setup carries the risk of bricking your machine. Also, I do a lot of work in virtualization with vmware fusion on my mac and I worry this will not be well supported.

Windows is just the easier way now, sadly. Apple has given up on pro users and computers in general.

My original thought was since Apple is no longer good at laptop hardware, I just buy or build a computer and make it run Mac OS. Sounds like I am looking for troubles and more lose of time going the Hackintosh route. Those Hackintosh users on Youtube do look very happy!

I have not encountered Windows laptops that can drive 4K TV @ 60Hz yet. Don't know the reason. Sounds like we are stuck with Apple.
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I'm no expert on this topic but are you sure that only two(!) consecutive returns already make this law kick in? I mean I get what this law is for, but it sounds pretty ridiculous that, once you have returned a product once, you commit a crime by returning a similar product in the two or so weeks thereafter. I'm pretty sure that's not the case in my country and I'd be surprised if that's the legal situation in the US; two returns seem (in your words) like a perfectly reasonable amount to me.

What do you do for example if you simply just realized two times consecutively that the model you ordered didn't have the specs that your needs require, or if both models shipped with some sort of defect (not exactly rare with the butterfly keyboards), or with some annoyance/downside that you didn't realize beforehand, or any combination of these?

Actually I have already found two defects on my MBP 2017 13". Sometimes the system hangs for no reason. Also, continuous buzzing sounds came out from the TV. I had to change the port to eliminate the issue. Do other users have similar problems?

 

[SRLMJ23]

I have a 2015 15" MBP. I can wait until Apple produces something with more power, and a reliable keyboard

I have the 13" 2015 MBP. Great machine, no need for dongles, great keyboard etc. If Apple does not release a new MBP this year then I will just wait another year. I can certainly wait for sure.

 

[CrazyForCashews]

Is it dangerous on the MBP? I have applied thermal paste to DIY PC before.

No, why would it be dangerous? Applying fresh, quality paste (like Arctic MX-4), to any device that uses it is always beneficial. Especially when they're very old devices like your MacBook Pro from 2010. That paste must be so dry and crusted that just thinking about it makes me shiver. It could be a cause for the fan going haywire.

Just make sure you remove the battery connector before doing anything and patience is key. Lookup guides or teardown videos on YouTube for help.

 

[sputnikBA]

I'm no expert on this topic but are you sure that only two(!) consecutive returns already make this law kick in? I mean I get what this law is for, but it sounds pretty ridiculous that, once you have returned a product once, you commit a crime by returning a similar product in the two or so weeks thereafter. I'm pretty sure that's not the case in my country and I'd be surprised if that's the legal situation in the US; two returns seem (in your words) like a perfectly reasonable amount to me.

What do you do for example if you simply just realized two times consecutively that the model you ordered didn't have the specs that your needs require, or if both models shipped with some sort of defect (not exactly rare with the butterfly keyboards), or with some annoyance/downside that you didn't realize beforehand, or any combination of these?

As I said, consumer protections and refund rights only apply for reasonable returns, not to use products as a rental service.

While exact laws/rights vary between country - there is a difference between bringing something back because it is faulty, and buying with the intent of returning. A retailer only has obligations to you for the former and not the latter. If they realise what he is doing, they are within their rights to deny his refund (unless he can prove the hardware is faulty, at which point warranty procedures kick in).

But as I said, if he believes his case is strong enough then that is up to him if he wants to try.

 

[ocnitsa]

I opened it and surprisingly, it was quite clean. Haven't applied new thermal paste yet. Is it dangerous on the MBP? I have applied thermal paste to DIY PC before.

Unfortunately I still have to upgrade as 2010 MBP does not support 4K.

I just removed the heat sink and cleaned up the cpu and gpu and applied fresh thermal paste on a 2012 mbp....it was easy and fixed the fan and throttling issue. You should try it. Use the ifixit web site for directions.

 

[hajime]

No, why would it be dangerous? Applying fresh, quality paste (like Arctic MX-4), to any device that uses it is always beneficial. Especially when they're very old devices like your MacBook Pro from 2010. That paste must be so dry and crusted that just thinking about it makes me shiver. It could be a cause for the fan going haywire.

Just make sure you remove the battery connector before doing anything and patience is key. Lookup guides or teardown videos on YouTube for help.

Thanks. Just to double check. Do you mean this?

https://www.amazon.ca/Thermal-Paste...392&sr=8-1&keywords=mx-4+thermal+paste+arctic

Each day the first thing I hear after turning on the MBP is the crazy loud fan noise. This morning, when I turned it off, I could hear the sound of the birds. So I guess it is pretty loud. Now I even hear addition grinding sounds from the computer. Sounds like the computer is going to be in critical condition.

What will happen if I don't apply the paste? Will it run crazy hot to the point that the components got burnt down?

 

[ugahairydawgs]

Still about two more weeks to go until WWDC. After I return the MBP 2017 13", will Apple allow me to get another one, use it until WWDC and return? What suggestion do you have during this two week wait period?

Buying a computer to use as a rental is a pretty scummy thing to do. The return policies are only generous for as long as people don't abuse them like this. Legitimately trying out a computer during the return window and taking it back because it doesn't work for you is one thing. But getting a new computer you know you aren't going to keep at the time of purchase just to "hold you over" would be the epitome of not cool.

Just go back to your old laptop for the time being. Another 2 weeks won't be the end of the world.

As an aside, I have the 2016 model. I realize everyone has subjective taste with the keyboard and I had issues with it in the beginning as well, but ultimately I was able to alter my typing a bit in terms of how much force I was putting on each key and that made a world of difference for me. Now every time I use an older Apple laptop the mushy-ness of the keyboard is not something I prefer. I would imagine that in the long run not beating the hell out of my keys when typing will limit the possibility of RSI issues, at least somewhat.

Even Apple employee at Apple Store suggested me to do it and told me that a new MBP with keyboard issue fixed is coming at WWCC. He did not suggest me to do it twice.

If an Apple retail employee tries to tell you they know about unannounced stuff coming at WWDC, just walk away. They are feeding you a line. They may release new laptops. I would imagine when they do there will be some mitigation of the reliability issues with the keyboards, but not any sort of reversion back to the previous style.

But if they do get announced it will be nothing more than an affirmative hunch on the part of the guy or gal at the retail store.

 

[Fishrrman]

I would not expect to see a MacBook Pro replacement at WWDC (either an actual new model or the announcement of one).

If there is to be a 2018 MacBook Pro, it will come later this year -- probably not before September...

I could be wrong.

 

[hajime]

Among those who would go for a Windows laptop, which do you recommend? I cannot find one that can drive external display at 4K@60Hz.