Again, I find it interesting to see so much disdain for a file manager in iOS. Even Apple finally yielded to the need for some kind of organizational capabilities when they allowed your apps to be grouped into nested folders. Newsflash: This is "file management".
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What is benefit of a file manager? Please Explain
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As soon as Apple introduces something like this everyone will be calling it the next best thing.
I think you'll find that iOS could continue to operate the exact same way it does now but also include a file browser for those who need it.
I typed up loads of Pages documents on my iPad, then e-mailed them to myself at work so I could print them off. I had to do this one by one. That was absolutely ridiculous that I'm e-mailing documents one by one in 2014.
iOS is very dated in that respect. File management is rubbish if you want to use iOS for work.
All it would take is something on the OS level that allows apps to share their files to other apps and then apps like mail could have an attach facility where you just choose an app with available files, choose the file and attach it. The same would work for saving files. It does already from Safari with a few apps like Adobe Reader or iStorage. It's a really simple fix for a problem that wouldn't boggle less tech-savy users but still cater for everyone else.
That would be a marked improvement but not as good as a full blown file browser.
Eg I might want to save different types of documents in one folder. At work I have a different folder for each client and all sorts of documents go into those folders. That is the way that makes the most sense.
Apple could just disable the file browser by default and even password protect it. Maybe make it an option in restrictions that's enabled by default.
Apple doesn't include one just because so few people actually want it, and those that do can easily choose one of a hundred from the App Store for free. It's not a huge issue. It's not something that millions of people are clamping for, like with a bigger screen for example. Apple prioritizes things and it is unsurprising to me that they have not included a file browser, for MANY reasons, the least of which being so few people actually want Apple to make one. This is, literally, the only place I have ever seen it requested.
I can't believe people are saying some sort of file management is a bad thing. Every time I just want to simply move documents around and such it becomes a nightmare. I'd like to be able to upload my uni assignments on my iPad but its not possible. Any sort of file management between Macs and iPads is a bloody nightmare. Say I want to get photos onto my iPad without iTunes - NUP. iCloud Drive should help though!
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Half the iPad people I help would love an easier way to manage files. Its one of the most difficult to grasp concepts on the iPad for new users.
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Half the iPad people I help would love an easier way to manage files. Its one of the most difficult to grasp concepts on the iPad for new users.
That's obviously false, as the small sampling from this thread alone proves, not to mention the masses who email attachments every day. Also, you have no clue whatsoever why Apple does or doesn't do what they do.
Again not true. There is not a single app that provides the capability we've been talking about, namely adding attachments to email replies, or adding multiple attachments to email messages.
Shocking as it may seem, the needs of millions of users is not limited or restricted to only what you have personally witnessed.
Do you really believe that millions of people around the world are clamoring for Apple to release a file manager...?
Are you kidding me? Come on buddy. It doesn't even make the top 20. Apple could easily fix email attachments without a file manager. There are much better ways to fix it. You can argue it would be a good thing to include, and that would be a valid request and I couldn't blame you for it, but stop trying to act as if it's a popular request. Because it's not. It never has been, either.
Yeah, first of all, apple could easily add the ability to attach multiple documents to an email without having to use some clunky file manager that you seem to dream of. If a file manager was actually desired by a lot of people, Apple would have done it already. But VERY few people actually care about having a file manager on their phone.
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There are like ten different ways to do this already. And I don't know why you are having all of these difficulties moving documents around. I do it all the time and I have no issues at all...perhaps you should call AppleCare for assistance
Do you have any actual statistics of how many people want a file manager? It's such an uncommon request that I doubt you could even find any.
Do you really believe that millions of people around the world are clamoring for Apple to release a file manager...?
You can argue it would be a good thing to include, and that would be a valid request and I couldn't blame you for it, but stop trying to act as if it's a popular request. Because it's not. It never has been, either.
Yeah, first of all, apple could easily add the ability to attach multiple documents to an email without having to use some clunky file manager that you seem to dream of. If a file manager was actually desired by a lot of people, Apple would have done it already. But VERY few people actually care about having a file manager on their phone.
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There are like ten different ways to do this already. And I don't know why you are having all of these difficulties moving documents around. I do it all the time and I have no issues at all...perhaps you should call AppleCare for assistance
Do you have any actual statistics of how many people want a file manager? It's such an uncommon request that I doubt you could even find any.
It doesn't need a file manager like the finder but just a easy way to sharing of documents between programs and upload and download things. And its not an uncommon request among those who I set iPads up for. Its a very common thing for uni students, who buy iPads for uni only to find they can't upload their work with them, they can't download past lectures and they can't manage documents properly.
I'm guessing you love moving documents around the long way. Not all of us have the time to. Emailing 20 documents individually must be fun. Not everyone has a Mac + iCloud.
Where are the statistics that seem to show that nobody wants a browser? Apple is slow to add much wanted features so saying that "Apple would have already added it if it was requested is false" Control centre was a much requested feature for years and it took till 2013 to add it.
OK yep. Lets see, you can use iTunes to get photos on and off - Which I already said BESIDES iTunes, there is photstream which is annoying and slow, third party apps which all involve using networks and shared folders to sync things on and off.
All I want to do sometimes, is to import a large number of photos from my Macbook onto an iPad, sometimes mine and often times someone else's - I don't want to use iTunes as you're then tied down to syncing things and it gets annoying. Why can't I just drag and drop?
I wish people would stop being absolute fanbois and see that doing things Apple's way is NOT easier/the best solution in this respect.
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No app on a non-jail broken iOS device is capable of the features we're discussing in this thread. Namely a fully fledged file system and a way for apps to access those files on a global OS wide scale.
I don't mean to be rude but you're bogging this discussion down with nonsense.
People might not realise they want a file manager (or at least a vastly improved way of managing files) but I constantly hear people complain about the inability to attach multiple files to emails. The lack of a decent file management solution in iOS is the root cause of that problem.
Every single thing you just said is made completely and utterly irrelevant because of the cloud. If you don't have a mac, then you can easily use Dropbox, or a million other free cloud services.
Emailing 20 documents...? I don't know why you keep acting as if this needs a file manager, or as if a file manager would somehow make this ANY easier. Because it wouldn't. Apple could easily just give you the ability to select a few documents in Pages and hit the share button. That would be a lot easier than some sort of file manager.
Copying a lot of photos to the iPad? This is even easier, on a mac just add them in to Photostream. Done. How, exactly, would a file manager on the ipad make this any easier? I can't imagine having to use iTunes to copy photos to an ipad. There are ten thousand ways to do this, including many ways offered by Apple themselves, and iTunes would be my very last choice.
You say you "want an easy way to share documents between programs" on the ipad? Apple said 2 months ago that with iOS 8 they will be coming out with an extremely simple and powerful Extensibility framework that will vastly improve inter-app communications. It will do things like allow third party apps to add their own filters directly in to the Camera app. Extensibility, in my opinion, is a FAR easier and far more elegant solution to this problem, not some 1990's style file manager.
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Why on earth would anyone ever want this...? Perhaps I am too young, but I never did like the old folder-directory style of doing things on computers. It was very inelegant. For example, you click the "upload picture" button on a website, and it requires you to navigate and sift through your entire hard drive trying to find the folder that you dropped the photo in to. THAT is how iOS is superior, because in iOS it literally will immediately let you pick a photo from your camera roll.
A filesystem is powerful, and it's how software (even on mobile devices) views the computer, but in terms of actually doing things on a mobile device, a full fledged file system would be impractical for 99% of the users out there who just want to check Facebook and play Candy Crush. You can't blame Apple for valuing 99% of their customers requests over the 1% who want some ancient filesystem UI.
Let me ask you this. Do you know how many thousands of people delete a text message every day and then call Apple asking why it "went away"? Or how many thousands turn on some Accessibility feature and then call in to ask how to turn it off? Can you even comprehend the damage and headaches these people would cause if they had access to the entire iOS filesystem? These are the people who don't own computers because they don't know how they work.
File systems, folders, directories, etc. genuinely confuse these people. While someone like you and me obviously know how file systems work and love computers, the "masses" don't, and they much prefer the simplicity of a mobile device to the file system of a computer. These people make up a huge number of Apple's mobile customers. You can't blame them for wanting to try and appease them and the power users with a kind of middle road approach. I think that Apple's whole Extensibility framework for inter-app communication and file sharing is gonna fix all of these problems that both of you keep bringing up. There are much better ways to solve these problems than simply throwing in a filesystem.
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I don't think this is even worth arguing, since you are recycling fanboi talk, making up fake statistics and didn't read what I wrote. I don't want to use freaking photo stream. Its unreliable and slow for 1000s of photos. The end.
A file manager - perhaps I'm not talking about what you're talking about, something where i could drag photos onto the iPad, then choose to open them in photos. Almost every iOS user I support would love a better way to manage files. Most don't use their iPad for work due to the lack of this ability. Its just to cumbersome to email documents and they don't use pages on their Macs and obviously not on Pcs.
I can't even believe you're suggesting that using a file system on a Mac is not a good idea. It makes organisation perfectly manageable and I never have issues finding things. Its not that hard. And nobody ever suggested that anyone should have access to the iOS filesystem- we just want an interface for managing documents and saved files, essentially a my documents. NOT program files.
And uhh yeah, a file management system would allow you to go into Mail, press attach, and from the Pages file, choose 20 documents. Simple. You'd also be able to email attachments for more than one program at a time. I often want to send a pages and keynote file to someone, but guess what on the iPad I CAN'T!
By your logic, I think they should remove the multitasking menu as there are an awful lot of users who don't use that and it might "confuse them". Same with changing the background, most users seem to keep the standard background so why keep that in?
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There's a very simple reason Apple don't include a generic file browser and the solution wouldn't be as simple as just chucking one in - it would need a lot of re-engineering of iOS to implement.
That reason is sandboxing: No app can navigate the file system above it's installation root - apps do have full access to a file system but it's limited to the file system below their installation directory.
To change this would mean breaking / re-writing the underlying security system Apple have implemented and I suspect that's not something Apple are keen to do!
iCloud Drive appears to be Apples way to address this and AFAIK apps will have access to other apps' documents within iCloud drive, but I just don't see general local file browsing ever being implemented in iOS
That reason is sandboxing: No app can navigate the file system above it's installation root - apps do have full access to a file system but it's limited to the file system below their installation directory.
To change this would mean breaking / re-writing the underlying security system Apple have implemented and I suspect that's not something Apple are keen to do!
iCloud Drive appears to be Apples way to address this and AFAIK apps will have access to other apps' documents within iCloud drive, but I just don't see general local file browsing ever being implemented in iOS
I like how you think people can't understand a simple concept as files/folders but they magically understand Extensiblility. I get you're trying to defend Apple but just because Apple did something a certain way doesn't make it 100% right (and it doesn't make it the perfect way).
With any third party app that supports PDFs, you CAN do that with iTunes File Sharing.
No, they're clamoring for functionality. They just want to attach files to emails, for example, in a simple, natural way, without having to follow convoluted procedures. I haven't once said people want a "file manager".
Again, I'm not talking about a "file manager", but a user-accessible file system, where they can browse and select documents for attachment to emails. You're trying to make the solution sound more complex than it is. It's the end result that people want. What happens in the background is of no interest, as long as the user interface is simple and intuitive.
Again, you clearly aren't in touch with so many in the business world who have the need to attach files to emails when they're mobile.
I have not once said people want a "clunky file manager". I've repeatedly stated what they do want. You're the one trying to introduce the idea of a "clunky file manager", while others are simply wanting access to their files when they need them.
What if the documents to be shared aren't Pages documents? What if the documents need to be shared in an email reply? What if the documents consist of a PDF, a Word document, an Excel Spreadsheet, an .MP3 and a .ZIP file? Sharing multiple documents in Pages isn't going to cut it.
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I know right? "Old people" have used folders to organize things for over 20 years and are used to it. Even my tech noobe of a mother. I don't see how apples approach is supposed to be easier.
Documents Folder = Documents
Download Folder = downloaded Files such as PDFs
Click on the file and decide what app u want to open it with
How is that complicated? Lol
Apples approach
"download a PDF" now where did it actually go? Where's the "file". How can I have my presentation at the same place as the essay or paper that belongs to it.
Open an app and hope it can open said file. If not pick another app. Now what happens if I edit it, will it be changed in every app or is it a duplicate
I use to be one for iOS needing a "classic" file system - now I don't see the point.
Goodreader has all my documents already ordered and sorted. I can download directly from the web from there, and keep an original copy of files in there.
Whenever I want to transfer files from pc/mac without iTunes - I can simply log into my mac from my phone and grab the file directly, or I can do wifi-transfer. I can also upload it to my dropbox.
Whenever I need to email multiple files - I just go into good reader and select all the files, - I could then zip them or send them directly. I've sent emails with multiple PDFs that way without any problems.
iOS doesn't need a "classic" file system - I think an app like good reader takes all the good points about a file system and leaves out the bad.
Also - have you EVER browsed the iOS file directory? It's a messy, unintuitive PITA. Coming from Android, I really don't care about the "freedom" aspect of having a classic file manager on iOS.
All I care about is results.
Goodreader has all my documents already ordered and sorted. I can download directly from the web from there, and keep an original copy of files in there.
Whenever I want to transfer files from pc/mac without iTunes - I can simply log into my mac from my phone and grab the file directly, or I can do wifi-transfer. I can also upload it to my dropbox.
Whenever I need to email multiple files - I just go into good reader and select all the files, - I could then zip them or send them directly. I've sent emails with multiple PDFs that way without any problems.
iOS doesn't need a "classic" file system - I think an app like good reader takes all the good points about a file system and leaves out the bad.
Also - have you EVER browsed the iOS file directory? It's a messy, unintuitive PITA. Coming from Android, I really don't care about the "freedom" aspect of having a classic file manager on iOS.
All I care about is results.
We don't want a file system where we can see the OS files, just a local version of iCloud drive basically with more flexibility and functionality. I've tried good reader and its still not quite there for what I'd like to do.
A few examples: I'd like to download videos into a very very basic version of the finder, upload documents to websites, insert documents from a variety of applications into emails, plug my iPad into the computer and have it mount and drag and drop to these folders. I'd like all apps (Well they'd have to be modified I guess) to open and save files into these folders.
What is benefit of a file manager? Please Explain
Most of this is covered by iCloud Drive next month. Don't need to plug iPad into computer to access iCloud Drive, which makes it even easier than plugging in. iCloud Drive enables any app to see the same file, no multiple versions across apps anymore. The only thing on your list that won't be available is the email thing, unless that's unlocked in GM/Final release.
Most of this is covered by iCloud Drive next month. Don't need to plug iPad into computer to access iCloud Drive, which makes it even easier than plugging in. iCloud Drive enables any app to see the same file, no multiple versions across apps anymore. The only thing on your list that won't be available is the email thing, unless that's unlocked in GM/Final release.
Nice try, but these are very misleading half-truths. iOS already has the mechanisms in place to allow an app access to arbitrary local storage. As an example, for about the last three years developers have been able to read the on-device music library. Apple is just being paranoid and/or lazy, please stop spreading FUD.