What is benefit of a file manager? Please Explain

[oldmacs]

Most of this is covered by iCloud Drive next month. Don't need to plug iPad into computer to access iCloud Drive, which makes it even easier than plugging in. iCloud Drive enables any app to see the same file, no multiple versions across apps anymore. The only thing on your list that won't be available is the email thing, unless that's unlocked in GM/Final release.

What about uploading documents to the web + downloading videos and music and other file types?

 

[David58117]

What about uploading documents to the web + downloading videos and music and other file types?

Goodreader downloads files...

You can type in a specific web address and download whatever you want. I've downloaded music and PDFs from it...

I don't know what you're trying to upload to. But if it's another PC - wifi transfer is simple enough. Dropbox/Facebook is easy enough, there's also FTP transfer.

 

[oldmacs]

Goodreader downloads files...

You can type in a specific web address and download whatever you want. I've downloaded music and PDFs from it...

I don't know what you're trying to upload to. But if it's another PC - wifi transfer is simple enough. Dropbox/Facebook is easy enough, there's also FTP transfer.

But if you've got to log on to your university site, its easiest to do through safari especially depending upon the video type etc. I want to be able to download Uni lectures and upload uni assignments. A built in file app would make this all a breeze.

I also regular want to move large amounts of photos on and off of iPads without iTunes (there is a very good reason for this) but I can't do that..

 

[David58117]

But if you've got to log on to your university site, its easiest to do through safari especially depending upon the video type etc. I want to be able to download Uni lectures and upload uni assignments. A built in file app would make this all a breeze.

When I went to university, I simply logged in through the ipad and downloaded the slides directly to the ipad.

I used Goodreader as the "hub" and organized the classes with folders. This was my backup...

Then I sent the slides to my handwriting app (goodnotes is what I used), and had virtual notebooks...

I tried typing out a paper with a Bluetooth keyboard once with pages - never again. The screen was just too small. But I emailed it to the professor and that was the end of it.

I mainly just used ipad for handwriting over slides/voice recording lectures. I had all my texts books on it too, and took photos of hand outs..so I pretty much had everything on it. And it was all organized into folders..

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I also regular want to move large amounts of photos on and off of iPads without iTunes (there is a very good reason for this) but I can't do that..

Dropbox will easily do that.

Also wifi transfer if you want to get numerous files on it.

Having a file system will not make it easier to wirelessly transfer files.

Goodreader will allow you to zip them and upload pretty easily.

 

[bubbleboil]

Goodreader, icloud, Dropbox are already a kind of file manager? Except that it's not local but in the cloud.

Hence file manager is important. Dunno why ppl keep sayings it's not important. How u arrange the file in those app, will be how I use it on my phone.

Only stock android has no file manager but at least it's possible with 3rd party apps. And there is symbian, asha, bb10, bb7, jolly, wp etc with file manager.

 

[David58117]

Goodreader, icloud, Dropbox are already a kind of file manager? Except that it's not local but in the cloud.

Hence file manager is important. Dunno why ppl keep sayings it's not important. How u arrange the file in those app, will be how I use it on my phone.

Only stock android has no file manager but at least it's possible with 3rd party apps. And there is symbian, asha, bb10, bb7, jolly, wp etc with file manager.

You don't see file directories with them. Like I can't browse app directories with Goodreader.

So no - they're not a traditional "file manager."

My understanding is when people complain about not having a file manager, they mean a traditional one (like how android can have).

Not something that has already been done for over half a decade with a widely available app...

 

[matttye]

Every single thing you just said is made completely and utterly irrelevant because of the cloud. If you don't have a mac, then you can easily use Dropbox, or a million other free cloud services.

Emailing 20 documents...? I don't know why you keep acting as if this needs a file manager, or as if a file manager would somehow make this ANY easier. Because it wouldn't. Apple could easily just give you the ability to select a few documents in Pages and hit the share button. That would be a lot easier than some sort of file manager.

Copying a lot of photos to the iPad? This is even easier, on a mac just add them in to Photostream. Done. How, exactly, would a file manager on the ipad make this any easier? I can't imagine having to use iTunes to copy photos to an ipad. There are ten thousand ways to do this, including many ways offered by Apple themselves, and iTunes would be my very last choice.

You say you "want an easy way to share documents between programs" on the ipad? Apple said 2 months ago that with iOS 8 they will be coming out with an extremely simple and powerful Extensibility framework that will vastly improve inter-app communications. It will do things like allow third party apps to add their own filters directly in to the Camera app. Extensibility, in my opinion, is a FAR easier and far more elegant solution to this problem, not some 1990's style file manager.

You're right that Apple could just as easily let us share more than one document in Pages.

That solves the Pages issue... now what about all the other apps that only let us send one file? At the moment the app has to allow us to send multiple files, but we are proposing that the OS allows us to send multiple files. I.e. the app doesn't even have to support it - any app that saves files is instantly supported!

Why on earth would anyone ever want this...? Perhaps I am too young, but I never did like the old folder-directory style of doing things on computers. It was very inelegant. For example, you click the "upload picture" button on a website, and it requires you to navigate and sift through your entire hard drive trying to find the folder that you dropped the photo in to. THAT is how iOS is superior, because in iOS it literally will immediately let you pick a photo from your camera roll.

A filesystem is powerful, and it's how software (even on mobile devices) views the computer, but in terms of actually doing things on a mobile device, a full fledged file system would be impractical for 99% of the users out there who just want to check Facebook and play Candy Crush. You can't blame Apple for valuing 99% of their customers requests over the 1% who want some ancient filesystem UI.

So you click upload picture... a box pops up,

"Upload picture from...

[Camera roll] [Filesystem]"

Tap your option.

Best of both worlds.

Let me ask you this. Do you know how many thousands of people delete a text message every day and then call Apple asking why it "went away"? Or how many thousands turn on some Accessibility feature and then call in to ask how to turn it off? Can you even comprehend the damage and headaches these people would cause if they had access to the entire iOS filesystem? These are the people who don't own computers because they don't know how they work.

File systems, folders, directories, etc. genuinely confuse these people. While someone like you and me obviously know how file systems work and love computers, the "masses" don't, and they much prefer the simplicity of a mobile device to the file system of a computer. These people make up a huge number of Apple's mobile customers. You can't blame them for wanting to try and appease them and the power users with a kind of middle road approach. I think that Apple's whole Extensibility framework for inter-app communication and file sharing is gonna fix all of these problems that both of you keep bringing up. There are much better ways to solve these problems than simply throwing in a filesystem.

Nah extensibility won't cut it.

What if I want to: -

1. Type a letter to a client (Pages)
2. And attach to the letter an invoice (Numbers)

My letter is saved in Pages and my invoice is saved in Numbers.

It would make so much more sense if I could save both documents in a folder called "Client_name"

Extensibility won't solve this, not in the slightest.

File management is something Android does right and has over iOS, IMO.

By default there is no file manager installed on most phones (or wasn't last time I used Android a couple of years ago) and the file system doesn't have to be exposed to the user. For those that want it, however, you can install a file browser app and have full access to the file system.

 

[David58117]

You're right that Apple could just as easily let us share more than one document in Pages.

That solves the Pages issue... now what about all the other apps that only let us send one file? At the moment the app has to allow us to send multiple files, but we are proposing that the OS allows us to send multiple files. I.e. the app doesn't even have to support it - any app that saves files is instantly supported!



So you click upload picture... a box pops up,

"Upload picture from...

[Camera roll] [Filesystem]"

Tap your option.

Best of both worlds.



Nah extensibility won't cut it.

What if I want to: -

1. Type a letter to a client (Pages)
2. And attach to the letter an invoice (Numbers)

My letter is saved in Pages and my invoice is saved in Numbers.

It would make so much more sense if I could save both documents in a folder called "Client_name"

Extensibility won't solve this, not in the slightest.

File management is something Android does right and has over iOS, IMO.

By default there is no file manager installed on most phones (or wasn't last time I used Android a couple of years ago) and the file system doesn't have to be exposed to the user. For those that want it, however, you can install a file browser app and have full access to the file system.

For your last example - all you do is transfer both documents to goodreader. You would make a folder with your clients name. I don't see how this is harder than having to navigate to the directory and folder with a file manager.

Both leave you with a "client name" folder with both files in it

 

[shandyman]

What is benefit of a file manager? Please Explain

Most of the examples being used for reasons to have a file manager are mostly solved with iCloud Drive, any remaining examples can be solved by Apple simply expending from iCloud Drive by allowing Mail to access it and do multiple attachments, also to expand safari's current ability to save and upload images to anything in iCloud Drive.

What about uploading documents to the web + downloading videos and music and other file types?

Apologies, did not realise what you meant by that originally. That's not currently in the beta, but seeing as you can upload and download images, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible for Apple to extend this ability to iCloud Drive, which will cover what you're asking. I suspect Apple want to get iOS drive running before expanding to further to these other abilities.

 

[FSMBP]

For your last example - all you do is transfer both documents to goodreader. You would make a folder with your clients name. I don't see how this is harder than having to navigate to the directory and folder with a file manager.

Both leave you with a "client name" folder with both files in it

Legit question: Wouldn't you be creating duplicates of these files?

 

[David58117]

Legit question: Wouldn't you be creating duplicates of these files?

Yep.

I used goodreader as a backup and kept clean copies on there. When I sent copies to apps I would have those as the "working" copies.

You could always delete extras from apps and not have a backup.

Your choice.

 

[matttye]

For your last example - all you do is transfer both documents to goodreader. You would make a folder with your clients name. I don't see how this is harder than having to navigate to the directory and folder with a file manager.

Both leave you with a "client name" folder with both files in it

I'd have to transfer it to good reader again every time I edit the documents.

All of these so called workaround are extremely lacking in some respects.

 

[Monique1]

Most of the examples being used for reasons to have a file manager are mostly solved with iCloud Drive, any remaining examples can be solved by Apple simply expending from iCloud Drive by allowing Mail to access it and do multiple attachments, also to expand safari's current ability to save and upload images to anything in iCloud Drive.

Yes, I agree. But if Apple is going to do this in iOS8 they would’ve mentioned it at WWDC for maximum fan orgasm effect. It Didn’t happen.

iCloud Drive will be more than we had in iOS7 but it just ain't what I'm looking for.

 

[David58117]

I'd have to transfer it to good reader again every time I edit the documents.

All of these so called workaround are extremely lacking in some respects.

No - the app itself should save it. I just liked to have un modified originals.

 

[matttye]

What is benefit of a file manager? Please Explain

No - the app itself should save it. I just liked to have un modified originals.

Are you saying that if I create a pages document, send it to good reader then edit the document in Pages that the good reader document will be the up to date version?

I'm pretty sure apps files are sandboxed, so I don't understand how the good reader version would be up to date...

 

[shandyman]

Yes, I agree. But if Apple is going to do this in iOS8 they would’ve mentioned it at WWDC for maximum fan orgasm effect. It Didn’t happen.



iCloud Drive will be more than we had in iOS7 but it just ain't what I'm looking for.

I didn't say it would be in iOS 8. Could be 8.1, or maybe 9, they might be waiting to make sure the kinks are worked out from the initial launch of iCloud Drive. Or it could be one little thing they left to mention at the announcement on 9/9/14, which would also cause 'fan orgasm'.

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Are you saying that if I create a pages document, send it to good reader then edit the document in Pages that the good reader document will be the up to date version?

I'm pretty sure apps files are sandboxed, so I don't understand how the good reader version would be up to date...

This would happen once the apps have access to iCloud Drive.

 

[David58117]

Are you saying that if I create a pages document, send it to good reader then edit the document in Pages that the good reader document will be the up to date version?

I'm pretty sure apps files are sandboxed, so I don't understand how the good reader version would be up to date...

If you want it up to date all you have to do is send it to Goodreader. Its quicker than having to open a file manager, navigate to the directory, copy the file, navigate back to the home directory and paste it.

 

[matttye]

If you want it up to date all you have to do is send it to Goodreader. Its quicker than having to open a file manager, navigate to the directory, copy the file, navigate back to the home directory and paste it.

What are you talking about? You wouldn't have to do any of that with a file manager, you would just edit the file in pages as you currently do but the file would be available for all apps to access.

 

[Phil A.]

Nice try, but these are very misleading half-truths. iOS already has the mechanisms in place to allow an app access to arbitrary local storage. As an example, for about the last three years developers have been able to read the on-device music library. Apple is just being paranoid and/or lazy, please stop spreading FUD.

It's not FUD, it's fact - yes, you can access the media library (and the photos library), but through specific APIs and not general file access.

The fact remains that an App Store app simple cannot see any files or folders outside its sandbox and to change that and give apps access to local files outside their sandbox would mean a lot of re-engineering.

 

[rrl]

to change that and give apps access to local files outside their sandbox would mean a lot of re-engineering.

It would take zero engineering because they've already done the work.

 

[Sonmi451]

Would be nice to have something to save texts/text photos/voicemails. Right now have to use third party apps. But iOS is getting better with every version, so who knows in the future what they'll include. They seem to be opening this up more and more, slowly but surely.

 

[David58117]

What are you talking about? You wouldn't have to do any of that with a file manager, you would just edit the file in pages as you currently do but the file would be available for all apps to access.

So each app would have universal access to the document?

That's not a file manager...

A file manager would simply allow you to access the individual apps directory.

 

[oldmacs]

When I went to university, I simply logged in through the ipad and downloaded the slides directly to the ipad.

I used Goodreader as the "hub" and organized the classes with folders. This was my backup...

Then I sent the slides to my handwriting app (goodnotes is what I used), and had virtual notebooks...

I tried typing out a paper with a Bluetooth keyboard once with pages - never again. The screen was just too small. But I emailed it to the professor and that was the end of it.

I mainly just used ipad for handwriting over slides/voice recording lectures. I had all my texts books on it too, and took photos of hand outs..so I pretty much had everything on it. And it was all organized into folders..

----------



Dropbox will easily do that.

Also wifi transfer if you want to get numerous files on it.

Having a file system will not make it easier to wirelessly transfer files.

Goodreader will allow you to zip them and upload pretty easily.

I don't want wireless transfer!! Its slow. I want to be able to mount mine and other's iPads on the desktop and drag the photos into a folder. I don't need to see the whole file system. Just a Home folder with a folder for each document type. I don't want to use the cloud for photos. Who knows where the memories are going. In addition to that i can't send photos to the built in photos app.

All of these things need workarounds and third party apps to work and are annoying. A local version of iCloud drive that had enhancements + drag and drop from the computer would do nicely.

 

[David58117]

I don't want wireless transfer!! Its slow. I want to be able to mount mine and other's iPads on the desktop and drag the photos into a folder. I don't need to see the whole file system. Just a Home folder with a folder for each document type. I don't want to use the cloud for photos. Who knows where the memories are going. In addition to that i can't send photos to the built in photos app.



All of these things need workarounds and third party apps to work and are annoying. A local version of iCloud drive that had enhancements + drag and drop from the computer would do nicely.

So if you don't want wifi transfer, cloud storage, direct download from a website and insist on a USB cable - connect it to a computer and transfer that way.

You totally can use a USB cable and transfer the files that way. I don't even think iTunes is needed for photos (what you're talking about). Anytime I connect my iPad or iPhone a folder pops up with photos...

Android had "Android transfer" I had to use, and Samsung had "Keyes" or whatever it was. iTunes is much more fluid than any of those were and used less resources.

 

[shandyman]

So each app would have universal access to the document?

That's not a file manager...

A file manager would simply allow you to access the individual apps directory.

If all apps can see and use the same file from within their own app, as with iCloud Drive, why would you need a separate file manager app?

All Apple need to do is allow safari and mail to access iCloud Drive, then it's sorted.