What is the Ultimate Role of the Apple Tablet?

[nastebu]

Not trying to disagree with you or anything remotely close (just adding something in relation to the topic of this thread) but if this thing can't replace a laptop it will be a flop or very niche product. Period.

While it may be extremely useful for textbooks, no college kid is going to buy this in addition to a laptop when they're in financial aid debt as soon as they attend their first class.

As of right now, contrary to others that may disagree, Apple has to give a reason why consumers need this product. An e-reading media player is simply not good enough no matter how pretty it is. This was the main theme of the Gruber article.

I don't think we disagree at all. Gruber's point was that he thinks the device will do fewer things than we think it will do, but do those things very well. That means it doesn't have to replace a laptop in the sense of it doesn't have to do everything a laptop does equally well. It needs to do some of the things that a current laptop does, but much better. It needs to replace a laptop by better suiting how many people use laptops, not by providing a product that does exactly the same thing.

In other words, no, like Gruber says, Apple won't succeed with a pure ebook reader. But it's quite possible that they would succeed if the iSlate-or-whatever-it's-called is an extremely good ebook reader in addition to some of the other functions of a laptop--like web browsing, email, etc. I agree I can't see students buying a tablet just to access textbooks. But if they're buying it for general media use, there's a great opportunity to see electronic versions of current textbooks. They won't be cheap though.

 

[Eidorian]

That still says a lot about you.

Anyway, I have a lot of books that I've bought that I sure couldn't find online anywhere.

I'm not sure if you mean that a lot of books are out of copyright and so freely available, or maybe you're hinting at piracy?

Content isn't free to create, and so it's not going to be free to us endusers. If Apple can create a device that helps publishers produce good content and get fair prices for it, that's a very good thing.

A good example is the textbook industry. College textbooks are very expensive to develop and need to be frequently updated. If Apple makes an ebook reader that can handle color, video, and still be easy to read (like a Kindle), then this is an incredible opportunity for textbook publishers. But they are still not going to be cheap. Creating that content, new content, especially, means that the electronic editions are going to be very close to the cost of the paper editions--just better and more portable.

There are now much fewer instances where I do need to buy books. I have several out of print RPG materials that luckily are still available on Amazon surprisingly enough.

Otherwise I was able to find a good portion of my college textbooks at the library.

The piracy talk amuses me but I haven't done that to acquire my reading material. The talk of the explosion of content at your fingertips that you pay for seems a bit much. I understand there are people that do desire it but I just use my library. If they don't have it there are plenty of them around here and there's always acquiring materials from other libraries. All for free mind you.

 

[skinnylegs]

Answer: Your a thick idiot here my friend, I suggest you don't jump half way into conversations that you clearly have not fully read. That way you'll save yourself some embarrassment

Let me enlighten you, I was basically speaking to SOMEONE ELSE who seemed to be implying it does not matter if this tablet thing can't edit Word docs etc. So you see, if you did your homework and read a few pages instead of jumping in you'd understand.

Let me make things a bit clearer; this will be a multimedia centric device; not a business centric device. That doesn't mean that it will not be capable of light word processing. It will...

Nevermind.

EDIT: The Kindle and Nook are grains of sand on the electronic media beach. There is a *huge* untapped market in terms of digitally delivered media and Apple has plans on capitalizing on this. Can you visualize a digital newsstand? Can you visualize interactive periodicals and newspapers with rich graphics, video, audio content and <insert use your imagination>. I just don't see why people don't get it.

 

[str1f3]

I don't think we disagree at all. Gruber's point was that he thinks the device will do fewer things than we think it will do, but do those things very well. That means it doesn't have to replace a laptop in the sense of it doesn't have to do everything a laptop does equally well. It needs to do some of the things that a current laptop does, but much better. It needs to replace a laptop by better suiting how many people use laptops, not by providing a product that does exactly the same thing.

In other words, no, like Gruber says, Apple won't succeed with a pure ebook reader. But it's quite possible that they would succeed if the iSlate-or-whatever-it's-called is an extremely good ebook reader in addition to some of the other functions of a laptop--like web browsing, email, etc. I agree I can't see students buying a tablet just to access textbooks. But if they're buying it for general media use, there's a great opportunity to see electronic versions of current textbooks. They won't be cheap though.

I agree with you but there are some necessary things that this device needs to be a standalone device for the basic user. One of them is iWork. If Apple can't manage having these things on the tablet, as well as solving how you type on it, then it will be a failure. There are many problems on this device that Apple will have to solve for the end user. Unless you're someone who'll purchase anything with a Mac logo, it will have to be able to replace a laptop.

I just hope Apple finds a solution instead of making this some kind of e-reading media player which will fail. I've read more books by the time I was 15 than many users have read in their whole lives on this forum. That doesn't mean I'm foolish enough to buy an expensive device solely for that purpose.

 

[NAG]

I agree with you but there are some necessary things that this device needs to be a standalone device for the basic user. One of them is iWork. If Apple can't manage having these things on the tablet, as well as solving how you type on it, then it will be a failure. There are many problems on this device that Apple will have to solve for the end user. Unless you're someone who'll purchase anything with a Mac logo, it will have to be able to replace a laptop.

I just hope Apple finds a solution instead of making this some kind of e-reading media player which will fail. I've read more books by the time I was 15 than many users have read in their whole lives on this forum. That doesn't mean I'm foolish enough to buy an expensive device solely for that purpose.

I hate to agree with listing requirements for a tablet to be a success but I agree that there will have to be some sort of rudimentary iWork functionality or it will be largely pointless as far as content creation (outside of photos or minor video editing present on the 3GS).

 

[*LTD*]

It's not lack of imagination, it's being sensible, you have got to be some serious thick stupid idiot to hail a device that can't even edit a word doc that as I already said can be done on just about any smart phone, so why not use your imagination, guess how much this thing will cost, then ask yourself if you would buy it if it can't perform the same tasks plus more then any other netbook or smart phone can? I bet your telling yourself yes!! I mean you seem to think I lack imagination to expect a device to perform simple editing tasks for a potential $600 plus price tag



Thanks, but you desperately need to apologise for your total and complete lack of any intelligence considering your rather pathetic response. Your a pure genius sir.

If you're talking about the iPhone, it edits Word docs, Excel, etc.

 

[firewood]

... if this thing can't replace a laptop it will be a flop or very niche product.

Neither the iPhone nor the iPod Touch can fully replace a laptop (except for very limited usages, for example using VNC and RDP apps), yet they both outsold all Apple laptops by a large margin.

Not a flop.

And, this is just a guess, but Kindles are probably currently outselling MacBook Airs. Maybe not a roaring success, but probably not a flop either.

And the niche of (various ages, but older on average) people who need something with a larger page size than an iPod Touch, and faster and with more display contrast than a Kindle, is probably larger than you think.

Possibly a lot larger.

 

[InfoSecmgr]

"While we normally avoid purely speculative pieces here on MacRumors"

really??

 

[nastebu]

The talk of the explosion of content at your fingertips that you pay for seems a bit much. I understand there are people that do desire it but I just use my library. If they don't have it there are plenty of them around here and there's always acquiring materials from other libraries. All for free mind you.

The library is wonderful and irreplaceable. Especially for research. But lots of people like books, and like writers, and like buying books, having them, writing in them, etc. That's a different purpose than the library and is still a big market.

Also, it's not so simple that the library is always a possibility. I live in Japan, for example, and so library books in English are difficult to come by. Likewise, Japanese books in the United States are expensive to buy and current books or any book that isn't manga isn't in the library. As you say, you can always inter-library loan, but that can take time, is frequently more difficult than just posting an order, and for a book you want you may not want to wait. The Google dream of any book in any language in sixty seconds would be a revolution.

 

[Eidorian]

The Google dream of any book in any language in sixty seconds would be a revolution.

Who is going to pay for that? Don't forget I can get books online with just my card number as well. You can do more than just hit the databases and journals online. You can get more mundane content as well. You just need a browser.

 

[nastebu]

I agree with you but there are some necessary things that this device needs to be a standalone device for the basic user. One of them is iWork. If Apple can't manage having these things on the tablet, as well as solving how you type on it, then it will be a failure. purpose.

If by "type" you mean tap out a basic email or do some basic editing on a spreadsheet, I agree with you. If "type" means write an essay, I don't. I can't imagine Apple will find a way to make a thing with no keyboard do as good a job at pure writing as a thing with a keyboard. And I can't imagine if they thought they needed too they'd release anything at all on January 26th, because no matter how you slice it, if you want to write anything more than a paragraph or two, you're going to want a laptop.

For this product, write an email, yes. Write a book, no way.

 

[nastebu]

Who is going to pay for that? Don't forget I can get books online with just my card number as well. You can do more than just hit the databases and journals online. You can get more mundane content as well. You just need a browser.

You mean library card number, right? But that's general reading, and mostly limited to things out of copyright. Like google books and google scholar now, there is material online, but it's really about teasers rather than providing real access to content.

The real money is in copyrighted material. People will pay for that. I have no doubt that there's enough of a market to pay for it, but that's not the hardest problem. Who gets the money? And how are you going to control the copyrights? There are terribly difficult sets of issues. That's why it's a dream, and why success would be revolutionary.

 

[str1f3]

Neither the iPhone nor the iPod Touch can fully replace a laptop (except for very limited usages, for example using VNC and RDP apps), yet they both outsold all Apple laptops by a large margin.

Not a flop.

And, this is just a guess, but Kindles are probably currently outselling MacBook Airs. Maybe not a roaring success, but probably not a flop either.

And the niche of (various ages, but older on average) people who need something with a larger page size than an iPod Touch, and faster and with more display contrast than a Kindle, is probably larger than you think.

Possibly a lot larger.

The iPhone and touch are not comparable. One can always justify the iPhone as being a phone. The iPod comes with no contract and has is available for as low as $199. If this is an e-reading media player, it will be far more expensive and the average person can't justify the price. Apple is popular because it took devices and made them better. People are not going to line up just because Apple made it. I'm sure Jobs is aware of this.

There are still a ton of questions about this tablet.

How do you type on it?
How does it stand?
Is it a replace of a laptop for the basic user?
Do you have to pay for OS updates and how much is it?
Can this support an external hard drive and can you format it?
Does this have bluetooth keyboard support?
Does it have stylus support?
Does it support Flash?
Can you sideload apps?
Can the iPhone sync to it?
Can you backup your files?
Does it multitask?
How does it handle iPhone apps you purchased?
What is the price of the data plan if there is one?
Does this have to be synced to a Mac?
Can it setup a printer and print wirelessly?
Can it be used as a phone?

etc.

If you're a reasonable person, these questions need to be asked. All we know now is that is that this tablet is 7"-10" in size. At the very least, this has to have iWork from the very start as an app to purchase from the App Store.

I'd only hope that on Jan. 26 Mossberg and Pogue ask these questions and more.

 

[str1f3]

If by "type" you mean tap out a basic email or do some basic editing on a spreadsheet, I agree with you. If "type" means write an essay, I don't. I can't imagine Apple will find a way to make a thing with no keyboard do as good a job at pure writing as a thing with a keyboard. And I can't imagine if they thought they needed too they'd release anything at all on January 26th, because no matter how you slice it, if you want to write anything more than a paragraph or two, you're going to want a laptop.

For this product, write an email, yes. Write a book, no way.

We don't know how you'll type on it. Anyone pretending to know otherwise is acting foolish. We can only assume Apple has thought of a solution or this is a media player. If it is the latter, it will flop. They have interesting patents for typing but Apple has a tendency of patenting everything so they won't get sued.

 

[liavman]

>How do you type on it?

What would be cool is one method of input is if I can just speak to it. Video lip reading plus audio has higher success rate compared just speech recognition.

 

[cmaier]

here's betting we see Apple strike a deal with Amazon for ebooks....

Here's betting we won't. First of all, Amazon has it's own thing. It can put the kindle app on there for free and not share any money with Apple. Further, why would Apple need a middleman? It can deal directly with the book publishers.

 

[MattInOz]

Not trying to disagree with you or anything remotely close (just adding something in relation to the topic of this thread) but if this thing can't replace a laptop it will be a flop or very niche product. Period.

While it may be extremely useful for textbooks, no college kid is going to buy this in addition to a laptop when they're in financial aid debt as soon as they attend their first class.

As of right now, contrary to others that may disagree, Apple has to give a reason why consumers need this product. An e-reading media player is simply not good enough no matter how pretty it is. This was the main theme of the Gruber article.

Ok the efficiency of e-media is not cheaper content but cheaper and more discrete distribution. So in the case of textbooks which are big bulky and tend to have small print runs, and on top of that the same text maybe or may not be used in at different institutions. So no one hand you have a large run but wider distribution on the other you have small run with cheaper distribution then the cost of Distribution in your average textbook and specialist industry paper manuals to all accounts is pretty massive part of the text.

So any e-media version of those texts could not only have major advantages in terms of the content inclusion and interactivity, but the ability for the internet to delivery e-goods anywhere for a fraction of the cost of paper distribution. What's more adding content to an e-text after initial print also can happen at a mere faction of the cost as well.

Although not great for the second hand text market but that isn't such a bad thing for the content producers after all they are going to get more direct buyers in this model.

Indeed they could break books into chapters students researching a topic of relevance might instead of photocopying the one chapter of relevance may instead buy just the part they need.

Your assuming that for many users of such media that the device isn't going to have enough scope to replace their laptop and they'd have to buy both.
Well if it's on one its' going to be on the other. So some may not need a laptop because it has enough power to suit them or the other extreme they need far more power then a laptop can provide so they can pair this device for portable needs with a desktop with some real number crunching ability.

I do agree e-media consumption is not enough in it's own right. The real test of it's value would be in how it allows us to review and embellish that media. On top of some general media production tools (Think Pixelmator and iWork more then Photoshop and Final cut).

 

[hitekalex]

It's an issue about control and security as witnessed by the numerous attacks on unlocked iphones. How many attacks have you read of in non unlocked iphones? Exactly, none. There was that proof of concept sms attack that was quickly patched. This is what an app store guarantees, control and security

Yeah, and if Apple decides that a particular app encroaches into their territory, or.. god forbids.. competes with Apple's offerings.. You simply will never be able to install it on your precious $700 iSlate. Ever heard of what happened to Google Voice iPhone apps?

Apple can take their "guarantees, control, and security" and stick it where the sun don't shine. If they lock it down to App Store a'la iPhone - no sale.

 

[cmaier]

Yeah, and if Apple decides that a particular app encroaches into their territory, or.. god forbids.. competes with Apple's offerings.. You simply will never be able to install it on your precious $700 iSlate. Ever heard of what happened to Google Voice iPhone apps?

Apple can take their "guarantees, control, and security" and stick it where the sun don't shine. If they lock it down to App Store a'la iPhone - no sale.

say it, brother.

 

[KnightWRX]

There is a *huge* untapped market in terms of digitally delivered media and Apple has plans on capitalizing on this. Can you visualize a digital newsstand? Can you visualize interactive periodicals and newspapers with rich graphics, video, audio content and <insert use your imagination>. I just don't see why people don't get it.

Yes, it's already available. It's called the Web.

Magazines and newspaper can already publish to the Web to reach a much wider audience than some hacked together PDF format ever could.

Plus the Web eliminates this "periodical" thing. News is available as soon as it happens, not a month later.

 

[dmuir]

Greetings

I'm new to this forum and I have to say this is a really interesting thread. (I hope it is, I've spent all evening reading more than 600 entries. wondering if i would ever catch up;-)

I'm not a programmer, but pretty knowledgeable about the Mac genesis.
I even had (have) one of Steve's NeXT cubes.

Back on topic.

My predictions regarding the iTablet (many encouraged by observations here).

• It will not be just a scaled up iTouch. Apple could have put that out long ago.

• Apple will not abandon the momentum of the phone apps for this device, but it will allow for extended functionality. Multitasking!

• The new form factor will require a new GUI; iTab-OS? It will be another variant of NeXTstep. Oops, I mean OS-X.

• It will synch with all your other Apple devices; hopefully with a hardwire option.

• It will have Bluetooth access to keyboards and mice, maybe even a new touch pad. And stereo headphones, speakers, etc.

• Text input on a touch screen is not so difficult... if your not standing up doing it with one hand.

• The Apple business plan will include a much extended iStore library.

• The Bonnier Group, linked above, is a good illustration of magazine evolution and may be what we see on the iTablet, but Apple does not own this, and it will be available on all our devices... maybe more eloquently on the Apple device, as usual.

• Many will use it to consume media, some will use it to deliver media (their own, hence the need for a display port) and a few will use it to produce media.

• There may be two units; and the differentiation may be more than the screen size. (I had to write this post twice because i got logged out, meanwhile some one else made that observation.)

I'm an Architect, and I've been using design software that's 25 years old, since it was version 1.0. The laptop and phone get a lot of business use, but when need to do conceptual work I revert to a REAL PAPER NOTEBOOK WITH A SOFT PENCIL. Vintage tactility! Nothing in any software I ever encountered comes close to the intuitive response of drawing with a pencil. My various bits of sketch shorthand can keep up to my thoughts. No CAD program, or word processor comes close..... slow down and type! Huh?

• I don't know if it's sufficient to hurtle first year sales to 10 million units, but there is definitely a pent-up desire for high quality tactile access to content... the screen... a retro paradigm shift?

• This will add functionality in the classroom, conference room, or job-site... and the den/living room. Marking up a photo in the field would be remarkable.

My wish list for the iTablet:

• high resolution touch sensitive stylus input (to supplement the gesture touch screen technology) that really allows this to replace pencil & paper. If you've ever tried to draw a line in Photoshop with a mouse you'll understand this opportunity.

• Just think of a notepad, lays flat, unobtrusive, rotate, changes orientation... calls up your resources; photos, videos, memos, etc... handwriting recognition, speech recognition, touchscreen keyboard, real sketch tools, bluetooth input, awesome!

The interface could be a game changer for a few people, especially creative types that Apple (Steve) has always understood.

I am really looking forward to this thing. It may change many ways we do things; I've told you the one that counts for me, and many other designers.

Hope these thoughts are useful.

Doug
17"MBP, MPro w/ 2-30"cin., iP, multi-iPods, 21"cintiq, ATV (in the closet;-(.
Anyone else have an '87 GRiD laptop?

 

[LagunaSol]

Yes, it's already available. It's called the Web.

Magazines and newspaper can already publish to the Web to reach a much wider audience than some hacked together PDF format ever could.

To date, the Web's magazine/newspaper replications have been clunky at best. I can imagine some real possibilities for a touch-driven electronic magazine format.

Plus the Web eliminates this "periodical" thing. News is available as soon as it happens, not a month later.

Most magazines I read don't focus on "up to the minute" news - and the "periodical thing" works just fine.

I enjoy the Web and I enjoy magazines. I don't much enjoy magazines on the Web. I'd love to see Apple replicate the real magazine experience (minus the feel of paper on your fingers, of course) on an electronic device.

It's a shame magazines have suffered because of the Web, while the Web hasn't suitably supplemented them. I want the beauty of a great magazine with the convenience of electronic delivery. I'd love to have a collection of full-color books and magazines at my fingertips stored in a single device (not to mention apps, Web, music, etc.).

And I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but how about the possibilities for sheet music (for, say, piano) on a tablet device? Goodbye trying to flip pages while playing!

 

[SactoGuy18]

(getting on soapbox)

I think the BIG thing for the tablet computer is simple: it will literally change the book and periodical publishing industry.

Remember, flat screen display technology has improved to the point that we can comfortably read text on an LCD screen for hours at a time without eyestrain, despite what the e-ink supporters claim. But up until very recently, LCD panels consumed a lot of power because they needed cold-cathode florescent lights for backlighting, which is not a very efficient technology. The development of side-lit LED backlighting has drastically cut that power usage, and by 2012 we will start to see long-life, larger-size Organic LED panels with extremely efficient power usage (since they no longer need backlighting at all) that could show up on tablet computers.

I see the "iSlate" in both 7" and 10.1" versions with amazingly sharp LCD touchscreen panels that will be very power-efficient, sharpness good enough to display high-quality text and color graphics. With these high quality displays, the highly-interactive digital version of a magazine or newspaper now becomes possible, as Time Incorporated's recent "fantasy demo" of Sports Illustrated on a tablet computer so clearly shows.

But there is something else that these new tablets could change: the comics industry. In 2000, Scott McCloud wrote Reinventing Comics, describing how the process of digital distribution could literally transform the world of comics, graphic novels and even manga. Criticized a lot when it was originally published, this book now has become surprisingly prophetic, especially with Apple about to release "iSlate." Imagine instead of going to a comic book store, with the iSlate you get to a Wi-Fi hotspot or turn on the 3G cellular connection and within a few minutes get all the comic strips, comic books, etc. you chose released that week in high-resolution digital form, often in full color.

It might even change the Japanese manga industry, too. Imagine being able to schedule automatic downloads once a week of a full issue of Weekly Shounen Jump onto the "iSlate," with a mix full-color pages and high-quality black-and-white graphics (since we're no longer limited by the cheap printing process used normally in manga anthologies). Translation into another language will become far less of an issue, since the manga publishers may ask manga-ka to submit pages with full graphics (but no text, including the text used in sound effects) so they could apply text in multiple languages for digital distribution. In short, it's possible that a few years from now a manga series like Hiro Mashima's very popular Fairy Tail will be digitally delivered with a simultaneous worldwide release date for every new episode, and you can choose a version in one of 20+ languages that will look like it was printed "natively" in that language. It should be noted this idea is not as far-fetched as you think--Rumiko Takahashi's Kyoukai no Rin-ne is already published in Japanese and English almost simultaneously online, and the leap to the digital distribution method I just mentioned is a very short one. And Shueisha's new foray into digital manga distribution for Weekly Shounen Jump titles in Japan is a preview of what I just described above.

Remember the Sports Illustrated demo I mentioned earlier? A digital version designed for the "iSlate" will be nothing short of spectacular, not only with the ability to customize how you read each issue, but also display a lot more pictures, hear interviews or see video--in short, freed from the limits of "dead tree" distribution. A long story in Sports Illustrated--let's say for example coverage of the Super Bowl--will now include a lot more pictures, possibly a longer story, and audio and video from the story.

Because desktop computing power is so cheap today, even small-time publishers will get in on the act, too. Alternative newspapers could now become available on the "iSlate" very cheaply--probably free since each issue will include ads--in sophisticated, highly interactive issues. I could see the Village Voice going in this direction within the next few years. If the "iSlate" includes GPS navigation capability, imagine you see a good review of a store or restaurant in the "iSlate" edition of Time Out New York, and if you're in the New York City area you can get turn-by-turn directions--complete with maps!--on how to get there right on the "iSlate" itself, and it will include possible links to a site like Yelp.com for reviews from non-professional reviewers.

In sum total, Apple's new "iSlate" may have laid the groundwork for the biggest change in the entire publishing industry in many, many years, mostly because of its ability to do highly interactive content on a easy-to-use device for the first time.

(getting off soapbox)

 

[KnightWRX]

Most magazines I read don't focus on "up to the minute" news - and the "periodical thing" works just fine.

I enjoy the Web and I enjoy magazines. I don't much enjoy magazines on the Web. I'd love to see Apple replicate the real magazine experience (minus the feel of paper on your fingers, of course) on an electronic device.

It's a shame magazines have suffered because of the Web, while the Web hasn't suitably supplemented them. I want the beauty of a great magazine with the convenience of electronic delivery. I'd love to have a collection of full-color books and magazines at my fingertips stored in a single device (not to mention apps, Web, music, etc.).

This is contradictory. If the Web hasn't suitably supplemented them, why is the Web responsible for their suffering ?

The fact is information the Web might be presented differently, but it's the same as you would have in a Magazine. Think just of MacRumor or AppleInsider. They probably have tons of stories on a day to day basis that would end up in a Mac periodical after a month. Except people now don't read the mag because it's just a rehash of what has been on the Web for the last month.

MacRumors doesn't have the same nice typography or arrangements, but it's more popular, because at the end of the day, most periodicals are information based content. It's all about the information, not the way it's presented.

The Web reaches far and wide. iTunes based periodicals wouldn't and would still suffer from everything that print magazines do, ie, being late to the game with news and features.

 

[NAG]

This is contradictory. If the Web hasn't suitably supplemented them, why is the Web responsible for their suffering ?

The fact is information the Web might be presented differently, but it's the same as you would have in a Magazine. Think just of MacRumor or AppleInsider. They probably have tons of stories on a day to day basis that would end up in a Mac periodical after a month. Except people now don't read the mag because it's just a rehash of what has been on the Web for the last month.

MacRumors doesn't have the same nice typography or arrangements, but it's more popular, because at the end of the day, most periodicals are information based content. It's all about the information, not the way it's presented.

The Web reaches far and wide. iTunes based periodicals wouldn't and would still suffer from everything that print magazines do, ie, being late to the game with news and features.

You're assuming that they'd have to be once a month periodicals. You know, newspapers used to publish twice a day and had better layout than macrumors.

The problem is that price of publishing is thrown completely out of whack when it moved to the web. The big publishing companies are being out maneuvered because they have so much invested in management while all the new web blogs are mostly editors and writers.