What is wrong with everyone??

[25ghosts]

Yes god forbid anyone complain about Apple.
[doublepost=1519390146][/doublepost]
So if someone is not a social person they are destined to be a failure. Nice atttiude.

That is not what I said. I don't know how you could derive such and odd conclusion. But each to his own !

 

[thesaint024]

Yes god forbid anyone complain about Apple.
[doublepost=1519390146][/doublepost]
So if someone is not a social person they are destined to be a failure. Nice atttiude.

Those are some big stretch conclusions you've made, or twisting of words. This discussion is all about "excessive" bitching, as in repeating in every thread. Not your run of the mill "how do I fix this wack Apple product". And your definition of "social person" is not correct in this context. Does not mean people run around and say hi to everyone. It means you are not behaving in a socially acceptable manner IRL, as in going around and bitching all day long to everyone you see.

 

[bopajuice]

I just don't know how you really enforce that in a way that I'd personally be comfortable with.
I'm certainly not uploading copies of my drivers license/etc to a site like this to "prove my identity".

I think the barriers to figuring out how to do that and what it might to do forum traffic are reasons why more sites don't do such a thing. The internet is really held back by us going down the AD supported/page view route to monetization. There simply can't be meaningful change when a site like this has to worry about torpedoing itself by being too restrictive or cumbersome.

I was talking more hypothetically. It's like getting cut off in traffic. People feel it's OK to cut in to beat the line, but they would never do that face to face in a grocery store line or at a movie theater line. It's the idea of annonminity that emboldens people, yet to me it only shows their true colors.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I was talking more hypothetically. It's like getting cut off in traffic. People feel it's OK to cut in to beat the line, but they would never do that face to face in a grocery store line or at a movie theater line. It's the idea of annonminity that emboldens people, yet to me it only shows their true colors.

I fully agree with you, but I am just not sure what can realistically be implemented to do anything about it in a place like MacRumors.

 

[Phonephreak]

I wasn’t

Those are some big stretch conclusions you've made, or twisting of words. This discussion is all about "excessive" bitching, as in repeating in every thread. Not your run of the mill "how do I fix this wack Apple product". And your definition of "social person" is not correct in this context. Does not mean people run around and say hi to everyone. It means you are not behaving in a socially acceptable manner IRL, as in going around and bitching all day long to everyone you see.

I wasn’t aware it was socially unacceptable to bitch and complain to people. Especially when you spend $1000 or more and then have problems with your device.

 

[TiggrToo]

I wasn’t

I wasn’t aware it was socially unacceptable to bitch and complain to people. Especially when you spend $1000 or more and then have problems with your device.

Oh 'twas it just that. I've seen people bitch incessantly about why should Apple even begin to imagine they should sell something for $1000 - with a notch, no less! It's not like these folk have even brought one, they seem to be personally offended that Apple should even have done this.

Me, I'm sticking to my 7plus - not seeing a need for an X myself - however to anyone who's got it - good for them.

Unsure why folk just gotta hate just because Apple tries to do what Apple does best - sell items at markup prices.

 

[I7guy]

I wasn’t

I wasn’t aware it was socially unacceptable to bitch and complain to people. Especially when you spend $1000 or more and then have problems with your device.

I think what the op was trying to say, in general, is repeating the same thing, like a broken record, in post after post becomes tiring...and might be against the rules for appropriate forum debate.

 

[max2]

I agree with you.

 

[Gravydog316]

I agree with you.

At least we can all agree that I'm always right.
all the time.
Always.

 

[ixxx69]

I know, it's the internet, but this site is divisive as hell. Not the fault of the site, but every thread I click into is some childish debate about who's smarter, more knowledgeable, who's dick is bigger. I was regularly on a year ago about the great dumb debate about whether Apple "lost it's way" in their new MBP lineup. It seems that is still going on. Now I've been back regularly because of my excitement about the new X. People are arguing about whether the 8+ or X is better? WTH? Did people argue if the MB was better than the MBP?People are just spewing stupid "facts" about screen size, value per dollar, size of bezels, size in hands, and how clever they are because they bought the iPhone [of choice]. I get that these discussions are necessary in part to help people make decisions, but the level of vitriol reminds me of US politics. People stop making sense and just argue to argue. I frequent other forums for info, but the level of trolling here is on another level. Am I alone? Possible that I am just out of touch with internet forums in 2017? It's MADNESS!!

I just came across this thread... I've thought about posting something like this many times... I'm reminded of our exchange over a year ago, not long after you joined the forum: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...f-being-on-a-mac.2019399/page-6#post-24026318

I actually would put a lot of the "fault" on MacRumors - i.e. the way it's moderated. And I'm not saying it's "good" or "bad" moderating - it's simply the way they've decided to run their site, and that's quite literally their business. The endless arguing leads to more eyeballs = advertising = money. (I can of course make the case for why it's fools gold chasing that, but the world generally doesn't work as it's supposed to ). And since they'll of course reject that reasoning, we could just agree that they run the site that way because they want to.

That being said, the posting "rules" and the way the forum is moderated quite directly leads to all the most knowledgeable, intelligent articulate, thoughtful and sane posters not wanting to waste their time here, and ceding the forum to the kind of posters you describe.

The thing is, knowledgeable, intelligent, articulate, thoughtful and sane posters don't do the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. They see the results and then move on. Maybe they check back once in a while to see if anything has changed, but they don't just repeat over and over again. Ultimately, that leads to a forum full of people who are the opposite.

We see this spreading throughout the internet. An endless sea of people spouting their opinions with little knowledge, comprehension, context, or perspective. In this internet age we live in, that's what rises to the "top". And the mods on this site don't do much to challenge that.

 

[thesaint024]

I just came across this thread... I've thought about posting something like this many times... I'm reminded of our exchange over a year ago, not long after you joined the forum: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...f-being-on-a-mac.2019399/page-6#post-24026318

I actually would put a lot of the "fault" on MacRumors - i.e. the way it's moderated. And I'm not saying it's "good" or "bad" moderating - it's simply the way they've decided to run their site, and that's quite literally their business. The endless arguing leads to more eyeballs = advertising = money. (I can of course make the case for why it's fools gold chasing that, but the world generally doesn't work as it's supposed to ). And since they'll of course reject that reasoning, we could just agree that they run the site that way because they want to.

That being said, the posting "rules" and the way the forum is moderated quite directly leads to all the most knowledgeable, intelligent articulate, thoughtful and sane posters not wanting to waste their time here, and ceding the forum to the kind of posters you describe.

The thing is, knowledgeable, intelligent, articulate, thoughtful and sane posters don't do the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. They see the results and then move on. Maybe they check back once in a while to see if anything has changed, but they don't just repeat over and over again. Ultimately, that leads to a forum full of people who are the opposite.

We see this spreading throughout the internet. An endless sea of people spouting their opinions with little knowledge, comprehension, context, or perspective. In this internet age we live in, that's what rises to the "top". And the mods on this site don't do much to challenge that.

Thanks for linking the blast from the past of the old, naive me. Apparently much hasn't changed since I am still surprised about the types of "conversations". Good point on the motivation of the site, but I won't concede that it's intentional for dollars. It could be, but it could also be that they have no choice but to let people say whatever stupidity they want. To think I just wanted to join MR to share my excitement about my new toys, only to get attacked for being an apologist.

I've mentioned this a lot in my posts, but I want to throw my ATV3 against the wall and shatter it in as many pieces as possible. I tried to use it again last night and it restarted itself 3 times until I finally just turned it off and went to sleep. So tired of it "just [not] working". I've had some bad luck with Apple too and have no problem bitching about it. But you'll see that I don't seek out every ATV thread to say how much it sucks, and I actually own one! I strangely have better things to do with my time. But if anyone brings it up, I will hate on it with the best of them. I have an ATV4 and a Roku, and I think I'm going to get another Roku to replace that POS ATV3. I have to admit though, I've had other streamers over the last decade and most are in the garbage after less than a year. The ATV3 lasted many years and only in the last couple years started sucking hard. It's just a higher expectation from Apple that I don't have with any other consumer electronics manufacturer.

On another note, I found my box for my iPhone X lying around and thought back about how I was sure I was going to return it. I didn't, and still think it's the best phone I've ever owned, and it's not even close. Same with my tMBP. Every day I'm surprised about how they managed to make what a laptop is supposed to be. Money well spent on those two items, not so much on my friggin ATV3. I have no ulterior motives other than to share experiences with others who are interested.

 

[Doctor Q]

And I'm not saying it's "good" or "bad" moderating - it's simply the way they've decided to run their site, and that's quite literally their business. The endless arguing leads to more eyeballs = advertising = money.

The incentives don't work that way. Our volunteers don't benefit from advertising income or visitor counts. In fact, the more eyeballs there are, the harder the job is.

At the same time that we're reading comments about moderation being too lax, we're reading comments in other threads about moderating being too extensive. We have chosen the middle ground, and we know it won't please everyone.

 

[ActionableMango]

I know, it's the internet, but this site is divisive as hell.

It's pretty bad with anything that hits the front page. And moderately bad on very popular subforums like, say, the iPhone one.

But the deeper and deeper you get away from the masses and delve into more and more specialized sub-forums, the better the signal-to-noise ratio gets. Yes, there is still some discord, but it's a lot better.

This general rule is true in a lot of places. For example the default subs in Reddit are nearly useless, but in a specialized subreddit like /r/learnprogramming, it's pretty darn good.

It reminds me of the old saying that goes something like this: "The best place on Earth ceases to be the best place on Earth as soon as everyone else finds out about it."

 

[thesaint024]

It's pretty bad with anything that hits the front page. And moderately bad on very popular subforums like, say, the iPhone one.

But the deeper and deeper you get away from the masses and delve into more and more specialized sub-forums, the better the signal-to-noise ratio gets. Yes, there is still some discord, but it's a lot better.

This general rule is true in a lot of places. For example the default subs in Reddit are nearly useless, but in a specialized subreddit like /r/learnprogramming, it's pretty darn good.

It reminds me of the old saying that goes something like this: "The best place on Earth ceases to be the best place on Earth as soon as everyone else finds out about it."

Word. MR has become Yosemite. But don't worry, the current administration is trying to jack up the prices of national parks so only those who bought iPhone X's can afford to go.

 

[ixxx69]

Good point on the motivation of the site, but I won't concede that it's intentional for dollars. It could be, but it could also be that they have no choice but to let people say whatever stupidity they want. To think I just wanted to join MR to share my excitement about my new toys, only to get attacked for being an apologist.

It may not be, but the "no choice" is just letting them off the hook. Of course they have a "choice"... they've chosen... we just don't care for it. Ultimately that's our problem... we can always go start our own forum.

The incentives don't work that way. Our volunteers don't benefit from advertising income or visitor counts. In fact, the more eyeballs there are, the harder the job is.

At the same time that we're reading comments about moderation being too lax, we're reading comments in other threads about moderating being too extensive. We have chosen the middle ground, and we know it won't please everyone.

I didn't suggest the mods benefit. Obviously more posters is more challenging to moderate than less posters. That has nothing to do with whether MacRumors profits from more eyeballs.

But as I also wrote, which you conveniently clipped out of the quote, is that whether there's a profit motive or not for the site, they can decide to mod it however they want, i.e. it's their site and they can do with it what they want as long as they aren't breaking laws.

Your reply is kind of an example of the disingenuous arguing that I was referring to... it's a typical "moving the goal posts".

The issue is that MacRumors wants to be a place for "all people", and as long as you're not offensive within the context of what MacRumors deems "offensive"*, then you can be as smart or dumb as you want to be. You can come to this forum every day and post how much Apple sucks, and it will be welcomed. You can babble on endlessly making no sense what-so-ever about whatever you want, just don't "insult" anyone... perfectly fine.

My point is those rules and the way the mods apply those rules create a self-selecting membership... the results of which we see here on this forum. There are even posters in this very thread who by all outward appearances seem to be perfectly reasonable here, but you look at their posting history and they are "bad actors"... but as long as they stick to the MR "rules" they can continue on.

Moderation isn't easy, but the way you've articulated it is also part of the problem... your narrative is that this is about either being too lax or too heavy handed and you can't please everyone... well, that's generally what it's about for the "bad actors" because they have an agenda, and their goal is to follow that agenda without getting banned. For people like me, it's about the audience MacRumors wants to have. And the audience MR wants to have right now does not align very well with the kind of people I want to hang out with on an online forum. Again, forums are self-selecting based on the rules and content.

(* the perspective of "offensive": here's an example: on this forum, you can write "people who buy Apple product 'X' are mindless sheep who have more money than sense" is perfectly acceptable. Depending on your perspective, that's a commonly held fair opinion, or an offensive insult.)