What to Expect at November's Apple Event: Macs With Arm-Based Apple Silicon Chips

[flottenheimer]

Can’t wait to see if real world performance is as good as promised.

Especially when it comes to x86 emulation - which will be important for a few years until all apps are recoded for AS.

... and Adobe - crossing my fingers that you’ve been hard at work making the ENTIRE CS suite run natively on AS from the get go. But I guess not.

 

[opeter]

What?

There is absolutely no indication whatsoever that Apple will do anything to prevent users from installing whatever they want, same as now. All of the security features they’ve added are overridable - if you really want to run an unnotarized app from an unknown developer, you’re free to do so, and always have been.

Maybe not in Big Sur, but in the future? They can simply lock down the system, and your only option will be, that you install apps/games/whatever from the Mac App Store.

Except if you will jailbreak macOS. If they will let you do that. Remember, there will be the T2 (or T3? T4?) chip...

 

[JEccles]

Yes!... and with a good graphics.

I‘m in as well. But I believe we‘re a minority.

 

[Mimiron]

Altho sucks for the new ARM Mac to be 12", really looking forward to seeing what the machines can do after transitioning over to Apple Silicon.

 

[lambertjohn]

If it is a MBA, does anybody expect it to have the same issue regarding heat as I’ve heard about with current MBA?

How could anyone possibly know the answer to that question?

 

[Frank Philips]

I believe Apple said at WWDC that Adobe had already ported all of their Creative Cloud apps to work on Apple Silicon. Chrome will probably need to be emulated, at least at first. Spotify will as well, but you’ll theoretically also have the option of running the iPad version natively.

The running iPad apps part of Apple's plan is something I'm interested in, but also worry about. Granted they will run technically, but how about usability?
Case point, any app that run into portrait orientation.
Unless Apple plans a complete redesign of the Macs, with a 360-degree hinge, but I haven't heard any rumor about this.
Let's also wait and see how well apps that have been designed for a touch based interface will transition to a mouse based interface.

 

[Frank Philips]

Emulation on ARM? Can only hope for decent ports as that's way above my (basic) programming skill level.

There's Provenance, which is basically the ARM version of OpenEmu

Welcome | Provenance EMU

wiki.provenance-emu.com

I wouldn't be surprised to see Retroarch being ported sooner or later.

 

[deevey]

The running iPad apps part of Apple's plan is something I'm interested in, but also worries about. Granted they will run technically, but how about usability?
Case point, any app that run into portrait orientation.
Unless Apple plans a complete redesign of the Macs, with a 360-degree hinge, but I haven't heard any rumor about this.
Let's also wait and see how well apps that have been designed for a touch based interface will transition to a mouse based interface.

Many iPad users (Those who run permanently attached to a keyboard) already have that big problem.

Theres no reason any app should not auto rotate to landscape when required, it's simply down to lazy ass development.

 

[Mr. Awesome]

Something that will really tell us something about how this is going to go will be Chrome. As it is, Chrome is a downloadable app for iOS already. So there's going to be a native Apple Silicon version built for the hardware they have as a core.

However, browsing Chrome on iOS (or any "app") is sandboxed. You don't get to add the extensions you get to on the desktop. AFAIK, you don't get the instant access to the back-end code you get with a full OS.

Is Apple going to allow users to install Chrome? And Chromium? And put in extensions that kill all unwanted ads or hide cookies like I can do on a full desktop OS? As it is, if you install Chrome through the iOS App store, you are tagged and tracked across the web at every step. And you have no real ability to customize your experience with extensions. My worry is that Apple will change the user experience to make Mac OS less like a computer and more like that. In which case, MacOS will become a very different thing, indeed.

I doubt it. Apple would lose a ton of customers if they restricted apps on the Mac to just the App Store. No company in their right mind would do that to a desktop OS. *glares pointedly at Windows 10 S*

 

[Frank Philips]

I'm curious about the video conversion capabilities of the AS Macs.
Benchmarks are not everything and I'm not convinced that any ARM processor can really challenge/beat an x-64 if you, say, start a 4~5 hours ProResRAW --> h265 conversion.
Even more so if there's no active cooling.

The T2 chip was able to handle such a task, but I've never seen the result (I know it's fast, but is it any good?).

Any rumor about a video compression co-processor, that would hopefully not fry computer if it's a 100% passive cooling system?

 

[Frank Philips]

I doubt it. Apple would lose a ton of customers if they restricted apps on the Mac to just the App Store. No company in their right mind would do that to a desktop OS. *glares pointedly at Windows 10 S*

Yes and no. They tried in the past, with a closed GateKeeper, and indeed it was a fiasco.
But time has passed --- when was it, 10 years ago or so?
I'd be first in line to carry a torch and a pitchfork if they try again, but how many more would join me?

More and more people got used to the app store only world through the IOS devices.
Would it be such an outcry nowadays?
Sadly, not so sure.

 

[cmaier]

Maybe not in Big Sur, but in the future? They can simply lock down the system, and your only option will be, that you install apps/games/whatever from the Mac App Store.

Except if you will jailbreak macOS. If they will let you do that. Remember, there will be the T2 (or T3? T4?) chip...

People have been saying this kind of nonsense for ten years. It’s not happening. In the end, the *only* difference between macos and ios will be that macos will let you run any software you want (though you may have to click through alerts or disable protections to make that happen).

 

[chucker23n1]

Yes and no. They tried in the past, with a closed GateKeeper, and indeed it was a fiasco.
But time has passed --- when was it, 10 years ago or so?

It was it-never-happened years ago.

 

[ArPe]

I thought I could stay calm and just mellow about whatever but today I started to get hot, fidgety, impatient and excited about Tuesday’s event.

 

[deevey]

Yes and no. They tried in the past, with a closed GateKeeper, and indeed it was a fiasco.
But time has passed --- when was it, 10 years ago or so?
I'd be first in line to carry a torch and a pitchfork if they try again, but how many more would join me?

More and more people got used to the app store only world through the IOS devices.
Would it be such an outcry nowadays?
Sadly, not so sure.

There's really only a handful of desktop apps that I use regularly that are not available via the App Store yet but I don't see developers being happy about locked into the the Apple Payment System on both iOS and MacOS.

The fact that some very popular apps are available for Windows platform as well I think is the decisive factor for Apple keeping MacOS "unlocked". I they could though, I have no doubt, they would.

 

[Doug314]

So what would the difference be between a Air and a 13" Pro? Just the touchbar?

Exactly! Can't imagine they will have different silicon so....???

 

[Doug314]

Little change to the MBP other than dropping Apple silicon in it would be a little disappointing but they HAVE to update the FT camera to 1080 with so many people working remotely now. I'd guess the 14.1" major update is waiting for mini-LED screens availability so not until 2021. But my Early 2015 MBP is about due for replacement. Tough choices.

 

[firewood]

Maybe not in Big Sur, but in the future? They can simply lock down the system, and your only option will be, that you install apps/games/whatever from the Mac App Store.

Except if you will jailbreak macOS. If they will let you do that. Remember, there will be the T2 (or T3? T4?) chip...

Macs are for developers (Apple has millions enrolled, and depends on them for App Store revenue). And developers need Macs that can run Xcode and compilers, and that can test and debug any code. And Xcode allows anyone to run any code that they can compile on their Mac. So no lockdown is possible unless Apple is willing to shut down the App stores. Since it's a billion $$$ business for Apple now, ridiculously unlikely.

 

[Dozer_Zaibatsu]

Macs are for developers (Apple has millions enrolled, and depends on them for App Store revenue). And developers need Macs that can run Xcode and compilers, and that can test and debug any code. And Xcode allows anyone to run any code that they can compile on their Mac. So no lockdown is possible unless Apple is willing to shut down the App stores. Since it's a billion $$$ business for Apple now, ridiculously unlikely.

I absolutely hope so. Apple would obviously face a revolt.

But if they did lock down their system like iOS, but one which also runs Xcode for Mac-based apps, I also suspect many people would defend it. "Steve Jobs said PCs are trucks and this is better because it's a tailored, curated experience. It's safer…"

Would developers complain? Obviously, it would backstab open-source. But commercial developers who had a massive, captured audience who had no alternative to installing open-source software? Would they play along if meant they made money?

I have been vocal in my revolt at the idea of an iPad as a "laptop replacement." Well, no. You can't really code. You can't really do whatever you want on it. Only what apps you can get through iOS. And you're tracked like a collared bear. Microsoft was hated and sued in the 90s for making far-less proprietary systems. Apple reserves the right to kick anybody off their platform. I don't dispute this right. It is a closed, proprietary system. They use their right to keep a closed system.

I already think iCloud in Catalina is extremely annoying at how it pops up everywhere and won't take no for an answer.

Many big brains and serious developers would absolutely ditch the Mac platform if they decided to keep it closed to non-app code. Who does Apple benefit from, though? 95% of their base will not ditch the Mac for GNU/Linux on PCs.

But if Apple Silicon runs well and the platform allows them to compete on cost? They might expect to double their Mac user base. In which case they know the developers will play along to make money, no matter what. "If you want to whine about installing what you want, go buy a Clevo and put Arch on it! Good luck with that!"

 

[Dozer_Zaibatsu]

I doubt it. Apple would lose a ton of customers if they restricted apps on the Mac to just the App Store. No company in their right mind would do that to a desktop OS. *glares pointedly at Windows 10 S*

Which was trying to directly compete with iOS. Doing what iOS does.

 

[luckystar101]

Do you think there will be the same chip in Air e 13 pro like iPhone 12 and 12pro?

 

[rezwits]

No need to do that. Macs (Intel based Macs) can install windows, and thanks to Thunderbolt 3 one can hook up a dedicated graphics card to their machine.

Actually Bootcamp doesn't support eGPUs unfortunately...

 

[aaronhead14]

No rumors of a new Apple TV?

I’ve been waiting almost a year for a new Apple TV! Been holding out. Hope it comes soon.

 

[Dolmio]

I'm curious about the video conversion capabilities of the AS Macs.
Benchmarks are not everything and I'm not convinced that any ARM processor can really challenge/beat an x-64 if you, say, start a 4~5 hours ProResRAW --> h265 conversion.
Even more so if there's no active cooling.

The T2 chip was able to handle such a task, but I've never seen the result (I know it's fast, but is it any good?).

Any rumor about a video compression co-processor, that would hopefully not fry computer if it's a 100% passive cooling system?

My iPad Pro 2018 is faster than my MacBook Pro 15.4 i7 2018 at exporting / converting 4k video files from Adobe Rush so I’m pretty certain Apple Silicon macs with ample Ram (cw iPad) and probably higher tdp A14x equivalent will cream the intel i9

 

[tdar]

Do you think there will be the same chip in Air e 13 pro like iPhone 12 and 12pro?

NO. Apple has already said that AS macs will have their own line of processors. A14 is a iPhone processor. A14X will be a iPad processor. The rumor is that the mac will receive a A14T.