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I'm not sure where you get the notion "consumers [are] crying out" for those things. Sure, fan sites have people who want them but they are a small sliver of actual users. The Air is a lower cost small Mac that essential replaced the old white MB. adding a retina screen would bump the price up to where it'd be above the critical $1K price. As for 17 inch Macs, demand has been dead for years. Even in 2010, 17 in laptops were only 6%; in Apple's case sales estimates when the 17 was last sold were of 3.1M Mac laptops sold only 50K(!) were 17 inch models. I tried to find sales numbers that are recent than 2010 but could only find estimates for high end gaming machines, a number of which have 17 inch screens. Those were estimated at 3% of the market in 2017.

It makes no sense for Apple to design and build a 17inch MBP in the face of what appears to be very limited demand; they'd likely never recoup the costs, especially since if much of the demand is from high end users they'll want the latest CPU and GPU combinations which means a very short life cycle for a niche product. Apple doesn't do niche computer products so no 17 inches.



Snow Leopard came out in 09 and was replaced in 11; Rosetta only existed to handle the jump from PPC to Intel. Both were EOL'd long ago so it's unreasonable to expect Apple to keep supporting them. I run SL on a 10 year old Mini as a server, where it still works just fine, but to sync later devices I run the latest version of OS X on a newer machine.
That is the point I am attempting to get across though. There are plenty of Mac users still running Intel Core Duo machines and continue to make use of Rosetta. As these old machines cannot go beyond Snow Leopard whether it be because of Rosetta or the Intel Core Duo architecture both are valid reasons for Snow Leopard to receive a well overdue update.
 
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That is the point I am attempting to get across though. There are plenty of Mac users still running Intel Core Duo machines and continue to make use of Rosetta. As these old machines cannot go beyond Snow Leopard whether it be because of Rosetta or the Intel Core Duo architecture both are valid reasons for Snow Leopard to receive a well overdue update.

For Apple, or any company for that matter, to be expected to continue to update a product that is running on old architecture and is several iterations old as well is unreasonable. Just because there are machines in use that can't run the newer version is not a reason to update and support the last version they can run. SL was EOL'd, as were many of the machines, long ago so basically all you can expect is for them to run the last iteration of SL.

The same arguments apply to Rosetta. It served a very specific limited purpose, and if someone still needs to run PowerPC program they need to use a machine that runs it; not expect Apple to keep that functionality in newer versions of the OS.
 
Dear Mr. COOK :)

WHEN do we get a SOCIAL NETWORK with an "i" in competition to FB, WA and others to be socially CONNECTED with PRIVACY and AVAILABLE in both worlds, OUR iOS and with our Android FRIENDS (we surely have) ?!
HIGHEST TIME -
will you get it cheaper, than to buy WhatsApp?
But maybe too late - OH!

This is a MUST same like to improve MAPS urgently or going next steps in HEALTH belongings.

Social networks have the SOFTWARE POWER over every hardware progress like HOMEKIT and...

THANKS a lot for giving un ear to above :)
of course we love :apple: in many aspects of our life, but GAPS need to be closed soonest - the right steps are asked!
 
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That is the point I am attempting to get across though. There are plenty of Mac users still running Intel Core Duo machines and continue to make use of Rosetta. As these old machines cannot go beyond Snow Leopard whether it be because of Rosetta or the Intel Core Duo architecture both are valid reasons for Snow Leopard to receive a well overdue update.

Would you also expect Apple to update Lion, Mountain Lion, Mavericks, and Yosemite because there are some people who still run them? I would much rather see Apple forego yearly updates and concentrate on addressing issues with the current and most recent prior iterations of the OS.
 
You miss my point, so let me explain: what we are discussing is not bias but an explanation as to why iPhone 7 sales are relatively soft. You fail to give a cogent reason for why you don't like an explanation and instead dismiss it as "bias."

Bias: prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair...

I suggested two reasons for soft iP7 sales:
1. Absense of 1/8" audio jack.
2. Three year old form factor.

Had I said "I refuse to buy an iP7 because it looks the same as my 6 Plus" then that would be a form of bias. But the reasons I gave are based on what I've gleaned from maybe a dozen iP7 reviews, discussion forums, and speaking with employees at Apple Stores. They're descriptive of how consumers feel the iP7 lacks value.

Neither the audio jack nor form factor are why I've chosen to skip the iP7. My 6 Plus is still going strong and I hope the iP8 camera will add OIS to the zoom lens module and perhaps improved image sensors to both modules. Notice I didn't say sales are soft because of those personal reasons. I'm not representative of the average iPhone consumer, though I do believe that if Apple made a higher-priced iPhone Pro with a class-leading camera it would capture a loyal and wealthy niche of consumers. That's a biased opinion, lol.

Anyways, I won't respond to further insults from you. If you can't acknowledge Apple's mistakes then you must inhabit one seriously miserable little world of fandom.
Anyway, first point I challenge you to find an insult. However the last sentence in your post is clearly an insult. I don't insult, you don't like the content of my posts, there's a lot of that around here.

Secondly, no one really knows The Who, what , when where or why of sales. One can speculate from their point of view, but it's only from their point of view and doesn't apply to the masses.

For me personally, the iPhone 7 would be a solid upgrade. The rest of the world, I don't really know. But if Apple ceases to provide a product people want they will go downhill.
 
You miss my point, so let me explain: what we are discussing is not bias but an explanation as to why iPhone 7 sales are relatively soft. You fail to give a cogent reason for why you don't like an explanation and instead dismiss it as "bias."

Bias: prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair...

I suggested two reasons for soft iP7 sales:
1. Absense of 1/8" audio jack.
2. Three year old form factor.

Had I said "I refuse to buy an iP7 because it looks the same as my 6 Plus" then that would be a form of bias. But the reasons I gave are based on what I've gleaned from maybe a dozen iP7 reviews, discussion forums, and speaking with employees at Apple Stores. They're descriptive of how consumers feel the iP7 lacks value.

Neither the audio jack nor form factor are why I've chosen to skip the iP7. My 6 Plus is still going strong and I hope the iP8 camera will add OIS to the zoom lens module and perhaps improved image sensors to both modules. Notice I didn't say sales are soft because of those personal reasons. I'm not representative of the average iPhone consumer, though I do believe that if Apple made a higher-priced iPhone Pro with a class-leading camera it would capture a loyal and wealthy niche of consumers. That's a biased opinion, lol.

Anyways, I won't respond to further insults from you. If you can't acknowledge Apple's mistakes then you must inhabit one seriously miserable little world of fandom.
The sad part is their strategy to develop the jet black phone to give it an appearance of an all glass form factor to disguise the old form factor flopped hard
[doublepost=1483537621][/doublepost]
OMG Tim, if you can't kill off these horrific bezels, bring us a bike to drive around them.
The bezels wouldnt have been so atrocious only if Apple gave us front facing speakers
 
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Reminds me of this secret video recording of a apple conference call where Timmie admits apples strategy

I don't ever remember that being true. I remember higher clock speeds and lower performance on PCs. Even today, using a PC after using my Mac feels like I've fallen into a vat of cold molasses! Windows bloatware is terrible.
I don't ever remember that being true. I remember higher clock speeds and lower performance on PCs. Even today, using a PC after using my Mac feels like I've fallen into a vat of cold molasses! Windows bloatware is terrible.

So ditch Windows and run Linux. Actually, when Apple stops supporting your older Macs, install Linux on them. I've got Linux Mint running dual booted with Snow Leopard on my 2006 MBP (1,1).
[doublepost=1483542371][/doublepost]
Would you also expect Apple to update Lion, Mountain Lion, Mavericks, and Yosemite because there are some people who still run them? I would much rather see Apple forego yearly updates and concentrate on addressing issues with the current and most recent prior iterations of the OS.
I would expect Apple to stand behind their hardware, and that includes providing software updates to keep the older computers secure. Perhaps a disclaimer should accompany new hardware specifying that only critical security updates will be provided after 5-6 years.
 
I would expect Apple to stand behind their hardware, and that includes providing software updates to keep the older computers secure. Perhaps a disclaimer should accompany new hardware specifying that only critical security updates will be provided after 5-6 years.

According to NetMarketshare, SL has about 2% of the Mac user base. Apple has updated SL so users whose machines support new versions of Mac OS can upgrade, but to expect Apple to maintain an OS that was EOL
d a while ago simply because a tiny percentage of users still run it is unreasonable. It's pretty well known that computers and OS's stop being supported after a while so it's not exactly a surprises that a seven year old OS that was EOL'd three years ago is no longer supported.

here are the numbers for OS X from NMS:

Sierra 38%
El Capitan 30%
Yosemite 18%
Mavericks 7%
Snow Leopard 2%
Lion 2%
Mountain Lion 2%
 
But at this point wouldn't be profitable for Apple forgetting about hardware and rethink the MacOS licensing?
 
But at this point wouldn't be profitable for Apple forgetting about hardware and rethink the MacOS licensing?
There are a few reasons that might not be a good idea:

1. Manufacturers may leave out components needed to ensure full functionality and thus Mac OS wouldn't have full functionality on all machines.
2. Either Apple or component manufacturers writes drivers for their products or some graphic cards / WiFi / etc may simply not function and Apple is likely to get blamed.
3. OS X would need to be a profit center as hardware sales decline so Apple would have to change the upgrade pricing model to make up for lost revenue.
 
But at this point wouldn't be profitable for Apple forgetting about hardware and rethink the MacOS licensing?
Why is it that people keep suggesting that Apple turn the Mac into a PC? Why don't you just buy a PC and let the rest of us keep the better system?
 
Why is it that people keep suggesting that Apple turn the Mac into a PC? Why don't you just buy a PC and let the rest of us keep the better system?

I think Bengi's point was to allow MAC OS to be installed on PC's, not the other way around. Which makes sense really. If Apple discontinues hardware updates for all but the iMac, it would certainly help out the Pro community by allowing them to stick with the Mac OS if nothing else. That said I really don't see Apple taking this route. They will likely marry iOS with the Mac OS at some point. It's headed in that direction already I believe.
 
I think Bengi's point was to allow MAC OS to be installed on PC's, not the other way around. Which makes sense really.
No, and no. Licensing turns a platform into a cheapest possible box that technically qualifies as running the OS. In other words: into a PC. That makes no sense. PCs still represent the majority of the market, so turning the Mac into just another flavor of PC dooms the Mac to irrelevance, and therefore extinction.

The Mac is better because Apple controls the hardware and software. If they give up one or the other they kill the Mac.
 
2017 will be the year we see the decay of Apple's profit dominance pick up speed, as it will produce more of the same, pushing away its most loyal supporters.
 
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...

The Mac is better because Apple controls the hardware and software. If they give up one or the other they kill the Mac.

Have you met Apples current lineup, the 2013 Mac Pro, or 2014 Mac Mini?

Seems to me they have given up on hardware.

The option to have an authorized "hackintosh" option is what people are advocating (self build or manufacturer like dell/hp/Lenovo/asus), as Apple has seemingly abandoned these solutions for professionals, prosumers, and consumers alike.

(Sarcastic and obligatory statement-against Apple) hell they even allow third party hardware straps/bands for their watch-why not let folks put their own case on macOS.
 
My money is still on the iPhone 7s rather than iPhone 8. Have Apple ever celebrated a product's anniversary?

I think 2017 will be a very disappointing year. The "exciting pipeline" that Apple have talked about for the last couple of years hasn't really presented much excitement, so I'm not expecting that to change.
 
Have you met Apples current lineup, the 2013 Mac Pro, or 2014 Mac Mini?
You're assumption is that the pro market is important. It is, but only to the pro. Even if it were important to the rest of the world, pros need to accept (as the rest of us have) that personal computers are now mature. Rapid improvements are part of their history, not their future. Computers will get faster, but over much greater time frames. If you like, you can hope for a new quantum rig, but if and when that arrives it's not going to come from Apple or any PC maker. That will require an upstart to disrupt the established players.
 
My money is still on the iPhone 7s rather than iPhone 8. Have Apple ever celebrated a product's anniversary?

I think 2017 will be a very disappointing year. The "exciting pipeline" that Apple have talked about for the last couple of years hasn't really presented much excitement, so I'm not expecting that to change.
Depends what people get excited over

depends if a

New design
OLED
wireless charging
glass back

excites people or not.

high chances are there will be a 7s and iPhone 8
 
You're assumption is that the pro market is important. It is, but only to the pro. Even if it were important to the rest of the world, pros need to accept (as the rest of us have) that personal computers are now mature. Rapid improvements are part of their history, not their future. Computers will get faster, but over much greater time frames. If you like, you can hope for a new quantum rig, but if and when that arrives it's not going to come from Apple or any PC maker. That will require an upstart to disrupt the established players.
Complacency the new "courage"

Regardless of the fact that here have been appropriate GPU and CPU advancements for both machines, yet are "fast enough", and need no, albeit, minor updates.

You're assumption is that the pro market is important. It is, but only to the pro. Even if it were important to the rest of the world...

... perhaps it should be important. I would imagine much of the content you consume comes from those higher end machines, either rendering or compiling. But hell, if we have advanced as far as our feeble minds could possibly comprehend, bring on the emoji culture.

Allow me to be direct. You originally stated that it was the hardware and the software that made the Mac "better". I pointed out the neglect of two Mac products, and you respond with 'their good enough'? 'their mature'? 'the Pros need accept computing leaps in their machines are history-not the future'?
And seeing that you've been a member for a month and a half really demonstrates your lack of credibility and experience. And I'll leave it at that.
 
Complacency the new "courage"
Sigh. It's not the hardware, and it's not the software. It's the fact that they control both that matters. That's what makes for quality, not more speed. Would I like more speed? Sure, but my desire doesn't change the physics. Accepting reality is not complacency, it's just realism.

Oh, and I don't remember when I joined Mac Rumors, but it wasn't 2 months ago. I previously had cwt1nospam, and before that and long ago: cwtnospam. I use throw away emails to join, and every once in a while I may lose the password. Maybe after switching to a new machine. So I have to rejoin with a new email. It's worth it though, since it forces me to abandon addresses that have accumulated a number of spammers. By the way, my first Mac was a 512K enhanced. What was yours?
 
No, and no. Licensing turns a platform into a cheapest possible box that technically qualifies as running the OS. In other words: into a PC. That makes no sense. PCs still represent the majority of the market, so turning the Mac into just another flavor of PC dooms the Mac to irrelevance, and therefore extinction.

The Mac is better because Apple controls the hardware and software. If they give up one or the other they kill the Mac.

Agree to disagree I guess. Apple has already gave up on much of their hardware. There is nothing stopping them from contracting some other manufacturer from building an Apple approved box so everything works as it should. Again, I don't expect Apple would do this though. The iMac works for many but leaves the Pro hanging.
 
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There is nothing stopping them from contracting some other manufacturer from building an Apple approved box...
They do that now, like most PC makers. It's not about who contracts to build it. It's about who controls the build. Adding a middleman that will brand their own boxes just adds cost while forcing Apple to cede some of that control and costing them sales.

Licensing was tried before. It was a bad idea in the '90s and it won't work now either.
 
Would you also expect Apple to update Lion, Mountain Lion, Mavericks, and Yosemite because there are some people who still run them? I would much rather see Apple forego yearly updates and concentrate on addressing issues with the current and most recent prior iterations of the OS.
Of course it would be impractical to support all of the above releases however Snow Leopard is unique in that many machines cannot run any later release due to architecture restraints and there are still those who need Rosetta to run PPC applications. Rosetta does not feature beyond Snow Leopard. As it stands these Mac users are being penalised for not upgrading their Hardware and Software. It would take little effort from Apple to release a 10.6.9 update for Snow Leopard which remains one of the most stable releases of OS X.
 
That's quite a rant, and quite misplaced. You set up a strawman, "Apple must conform to our exact wishes" (which no one here has said or implied) and proceed to knock it down.
Every one of these posts implies this. If this was not the case then they'd not be expecting this and that from Apple all fo the time.

Guys like you crack me up. What happened to customer choice? Why is it unreasonable to expect the richest corporation in the world to have more than three computer lines under active development?
It's nice to want it, but to expect it (or anything else from Apple) is just arrogance. If Apple wants our $$ they will fix things up or their profits will continue to slide.

I don't want Apple (or any other vendor, for that matter) to cater to my whims. However, I think that it's appropriate to expect products that match or exceed the design, build quality, and performance of offerings from leading competitors or to ask for OS releases and application software that set the standard for functionality, UI, and quality control. Apple has massive resources at its disposal, and it's not unreasonable to demand excellence.
This is not demanding execellence though. This is demanding specifics of this and that to cater for some invididual's wishes.

This makes me laugh. Name one other electronic concern that can neglect their whole computer range for almost 4 years and still in business. We are talking about tech here, not china porcelain.
iPhones and iPads are portable PCs by definition. That debunks the statement you just said here. You just want Apple to focus more on it's desktop PC and notebook PC lines more.
 
Please elaborate.

It's probably the best and most stable OS since Snow Leopard!
And that since it's initial release, very much a stable OS

You are more than welcome:
  • Apple Mail crashes
  • PDF crashes
  • Viewer not recommended to be used
  • unreliable bluetooth connections
  • WiFi dropouts
  • iTunes error messages "disk full" (256GB left)
  • 4k monitors not coming up during boot,
  • graphic distortions.

Need more?
Snow Leopard was a blessing. Sierra is the worst macOS I've ever had (and I started with Snow Leopard).
 
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