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OKAY! SO WHAT APPLICATIONS OTHER THAN KIDDIES IN SCHOOL?

I am not that kind of engineer.

And 98% of humanity is not a surgeon....

I am not watching a movie on it, I spent close to a grand for a large TV.

I have tried Oculus and not impressed, will never replace my Playstation.

I am not an interior decorator, so buying one for that one time I waste my money at IKEA sounds dumb.

I am really trying to see how this sells to the over 18 crowd, given it's basically either a work application or a gaming headset. And you can't game at work, unless a game developer, and then it's bought by the company.

I honestly do not see haha what purpose this thing will have.

And then it begs the question of Accessibility....will Apple design it so that BLIND people can use it? Really? VR/AR for the Blind? Virtually simulate something they can't see?

Just saying "It starts here!" doesn't mean anything. Kellogg found John Kellogg thought back in the 1890s that getting people to eat cereal for breakfast would break them of meat eating. "It starts here!" Didn't work out.

They thought banning alcohol would stop people from drinking. Didn't work. Just made a bunch of criminals wealthy.

What other application?

Am I gonna order an Uber on it? What about dinner?

Do I access my bank account with it?

Do I check email on it?

Oh boy! I can LOOK AT PICTURES on it.

Maybe I'll calculate on it?

What about setting a timer?

You know what? Maybe I'll set a destination in it, use it to map out where I am going while I drive with it on!

Maybe I'll scroll Facebook on it?

Buy from Amazon?

Post to Instagram.....

I'll take photos!!!

Oh shoot, gotta use Authenticator on it, too!

Check my calendar for a bit.....

Obviously, I have to change my wallpaper.....

Maybe I'll control my TV with it, change the channels...oh wait, can't watch TV....I'm in the Matrix

Maybe I'll browse the web on it.

Oh wait, I have an iPhone/iPad/Mac that can do all of these things.....and more......

Between this and your other post it sounds like there are both significant hardware AND software problems.

I don’t think anyone is going to be doing telesurgery for a very very long time, if ever. Latency is always going to be a thing, I don’t want a surgeon cutting off bits of me with even 2ms more latency than there would otherwise be.

To play devil’s advocate a little, you name things that we currently do, but that is somewhat similar to comparing what we do with computers today with what we did with them in the early 90s. Some of those things didn’t exist then or were much more primitive than they are now.

Someone does have to pour a lot of time and money into seriously jump starting both the software and the hardware, the way the iPhone did. I don’t know if they can do it this time, because they need to have some seriously groundbreaking software ideas that you haven’t thought of before, as well as hardware that is at least close to worth the money.

If anyone can do it it’s probably Apple. I’m excited for them to at least take a crack at it. I don’t know if the corporate nature of software and the internet these days will be as welcoming as it was for new technology a few decades ago. As you mention, what software that exists is too expensive for what it is because software itself is just so much more expensive than it used to be, it has to be incredible to be worth the value and get people to try it. Apple is going to need to have it do some great things out of the box to get people onboard.

That used to be their strategy with the Mac and the iPhone. You didn’t need as much third party software because they shipped it with actually decent software compared to the competition. At least not at first, and the open nature of software in the era of the Mac and the at the time exciting and innovative App Store provided the jumping off point from there.
 
Interesting to see the adverse comments on VR and comments about limited application.

For the record that was exactly the comments given when the first Mac computers were made. The same comments applied to iPhones and apply to many new products, as its logical that software and uses can't really progress without the catalyst of the device in question in the first place
 
Between this and your other post it sounds like there are both significant hardware AND software problems.

I don’t think anyone is going to be doing telesurgery for a very very long time, if ever. Latency is always going to be a thing, I don’t want a surgeon cutting off bits of me with even 2ms more latency than there would otherwise be.

To play devil’s advocate a little, you name things that we currently do, but that is somewhat similar to comparing what we do with computers today with what we did with them in the early 90s. Some of those things didn’t exist then or were much more primitive than they are now.

Someone does have to pour a lot of time and money into seriously jump starting both the software and the hardware, the way the iPhone did. I don’t know if they can do it this time, because they need to have some seriously groundbreaking software ideas that you haven’t thought of before, as well as hardware that is at least close to worth the money.

If anyone can do it it’s probably Apple. I’m excited for them to at least take a crack at it. I don’t know if the corporate nature of software and the internet these days will be as welcoming as it was for new technology a few decades ago. As you mention, what software that exists is too expensive for what it is because software itself is just so much more expensive than it used to be, it has to be incredible to be worth the value and get people to try it. Apple is going to need to have it do some great things out of the box to get people onboard.

That used to be their strategy with the Mac and the iPhone. You didn’t need as much third party software because they shipped it with actually decent software compared to the competition. At least not at first, and the open nature of software in the era of the Mac and the at the time exciting and innovative App Store provided the jumping off point from there.
Telesurgery already takes place and has done so for quite some time? it makes efficient use of skills and technology.
 
So the world revolves around you? WTH? Are you serious? There will be tons of application for VR/AR in the future. This is just beginning but just like with anything, it has to start somewhere.
Doctors doing surgeries with VR/AR. Engineers fixing complex issues on micro level thanks to VR/AR. It will be huge!
Actually, when it comes to retail, the world does revolve around him, and me, and you. In aggregate, it basically decides all decisions that Apple makes, along with every other company that makes consumer products.

So yeah, his opinion indeed matters.

As for me, unless they make an iPhone 15 mini, I won’t be buying one, just like I didn’t buy a 14. I have zero interest in carrying around a big, heavy phone when all I do is check mail/messages/calendar, browse the web, and snap a few pics of my kid.

As to the VR stuff, unless Apple embraces gaming, especially cross platform gaming, which they never have, the applications for VR/AR goggles seem niche at best.
 
Interesting to see the adverse comments on VR and comments about limited application.

For the record that was exactly the comments given when the first Mac computers were made. The same comments applied to iPhones and apply to many new products, as its logical that software and uses can't really progress without the catalyst of the device in question in the first place
You are forgetting that VR goggles have been out for many years now. Apple releasing their own versiln
Or VR would not be some kind revolutionary, never before seen product like it was with something like the first Mac or the iPhone.
 
You are forgetting that VR goggles have been out for many years now. Apple releasing their own versiln
Or VR would not be some kind revolutionary, never before seen product like it was with something like the first Mac or the iPhone.

There were MP3 players out well before iPod and smart phones well before iPhone. The infamous, "Apple may not be first but..." line may apply here.

Before I had anything Apple, I never even considered an MP3 player for portable music. Late to the competitive game iPod at an "insanely too high" price was my first Apple purchase. To load it with music, I needed a Mac, so the "off the track" iPod drove my first Mac purchase too. Now I have tons of Apple stuff, accumulated ever since.

Are goggles the new iPod? We don't know. But we sure seem to have people ripping the concept as hard as people ripped that first iPod. We know what happened there.
 
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Are goggles the new iPod?

No. Oculus sales are in free fall since 2 years ago and the customers are selling that stuff on used markets after using them for a month and getting bored and irritated by them. Facebook is blowing all their cash trying to convince everyone this is the future because they are a dying company. Young people have been leaving Facebook and all they are keeping are boomers and Karens reading conspiracy pages.

Judging from your responses to people, a reality check is needed. Not virtual reality check, real life check. You have been trying to refute some very intelligent posts with massive chunky paragraphs nobody is going to read. An evidence based reply doesn't need so many meandering words.

It is quite clear people will not wear goggles in the way you suggested. I have used every type of VR going back to about 1992 and I do not even believe it can be a mainstream device used for all day computing. That would be terrible in every single way imaginable. If I believed people could live and work in VR I really hope someone grabs me by the shoulders and tells me to wake up and rips this goggles crap from my face.
 
Again, if after 6+ years, Apple rolls out only Oculus +, I'll be first in line to ridicule the whole thing to no end. There's too much time & presumably money investment in this thing for it to be only an Apple Oculus.

And if these goggles can deliver the front row, center experience for sporting events, concerts or shows I like and/or only replicate my working Mac desktop experience as presented in those "chunky paragraphs" I wrote, this "people" will be first in line to buy them and use them, even at the rumored price.
 
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Never bet against apple, but man, the headset is going to be a tough sell unless it does all sorts of seemingly magical things we aren’t aware of yet .
 
I didn't accuse you of having no imagination- just a limiting one with respect to this one product. Obviously my imagination- delusional or overly sci-fi influenced or not- is broader than yours with respect to this one product. I'm imagining many uses that seem at least plausible if these can fully deliver for eyes and ears.

For example, I like going to live events- sports and theater- and I like prime seating down close. That last NBA game I attended was row 8 and it cost us $1500 for 3 of us... for a single game. Down at row 1, center court tickets can go for upwards of $8K+ per game. I'd love to sit there but $8K is too much. However, virtualize that experience of sitting there by "selling" those tickets to cameras to feed this kind of product and sell a front row-center subscription to the season for less than one game and I'm likely a buyer. Why would the teams be interested? Because there is only a seat or two to sell in that spot. Do they want $16K for 2 physical bodies to occupy them or would they like to sell maybe $500-$1000 subscriptions to many thousands to perhaps millions? See NFL Sunday ticket for the $500 piece and the "millions" who buy potential. Why would this be less desirable when feeling like one is even more there? I'd be an immediate buyer of that service... and that does not seem to be a big leap to deliver as an early service with this kind of product.

Broadway seasons can be pricey for front row, center. But again, exact same technology could sell front row, center to thousands-to-millions who like broadway shows but can't attend in person or can't afford the whole season in those seats in person. Rock concerts? Etc.

There's not even much cutting-edge software development required for this- it's mostly just a consumption service like watching the new Avatar movie in 3D. Work the deals with the show/sports producers, put the camera & streaming technology in the right place(s), use a subscription model to manage the money, sell tons of front row, center seats instead of only 1 seat to a physical body.

Does that mean I imagine this replacing reality- that everyone jumps on this and theater and sports stadiums are suddenly empty? Of course not. There are many other variables in actual reality that virtual can't touch. But if I want to attend the NYC broadway season and I live in Florida, rather than all of those flights/hotels/etc. maybe I would opt to attend this way instead. If my team is playing in Portland or LA and I'm working with a client in Pennsylvania or London at the time, I could still "attend" the game from anywhere vs. watching it only a 2D screen.


I don't even follow Zuckerberg or Meta. I don't even have a Facebook account. What I see of him/them is occasionally press stories and TV commercials, none of which have ever implied any of the stuff I shared as potentials and instead seemed to revolve around slicing bricks in half as they fly at us.

I've seen some news story where people were trying to buy virtual RE next to Snoop Dogs virtual RE so they could be VR neighbors. To me, that stuff is just fleecing the public but not to be held against these goggles/glasses any more than a scam that rip off people who take some bait on the Mac, iPhone or iPad doesn't make it the Apple tech's fault.

As to the rest, OK. Not as many years ago, someone proclaimed, if God wanted people to fly, they would have wings... Ford suggested that we could have any color of car as long as it was black... AT&T basically gave away their initial cell phone business because it had no potential in their opinion... Gates proclaimed 640K was all anyone would ever need in a computer... Jobs asked why would anyone want a color screen on an iPod?... Apple ridiculed phones with screens bigger than the perfection of 3.5" and then 4" and "we" did the same with spin about pants with bigger pockets, one handed use, man purses, developer fragmentation, blah, blah, blah. And on and on.

All very new ideas- particularly technological hops- start with extreme doubt. Just about everyone here ridiculed iPod as that rumor grew and even right after Apple announced it. There's a thread on this site filled with the certainty of failure of that insane, "far too expensive" product.

Again, we'll see what happens.

Man I can’t believe I tried to read that and then I stopped when you misquoted Bill Gates. When he said that thing about 640k he was talking an early DOS which didn’t have himem.sys yet and didn’t need it yet. He was not talking about computing for all time. Who the hell really believes BILL GATES of all people thought 640k memory is all we would ever need? Nobody with computer science knowledge believes that Bill Gates thought that.

Gonna drop this here like I always do. Think about it.


 
According to this article it’s still largely experimental, and cites latency as a major issue. They claim it takes “40 on site technicians” to maintain suitable latency, which sounds crazy but illustrates the point.


More software layers you have more latency we get. It’s why we still have lagging software keyboards on 2ghz multi core devices.
 
I don’t like the idea of features exclusive to a Max iPhone because I don’t like the size. In addition, I‘m not a fan of price increases due to titanium frames or similar stuff. I pay for Pro because of the best features, I don‘t want to pay for unnecessary materials. For my that’s just an artificial price increase.
 
Interesting to see the adverse comments on VR and comments about limited application.

For the record that was exactly the comments given when the first Mac computers were made.

Bad comparison. A desktop computer replaced a typewriter. It’s a solution to a problem.

VR replaces what in computing? It makes everything more complicated and uncomfortable. Gamers have mostly rejected it and they were supposed to be the ideal market segment.
 
Again, if after 6+ years, Apple rolls out only Oculus +, I'll be first in line to ridicule the whole thing to no end. There's too much time & presumably money investment in this thing for it to be only an Apple Oculus.

And if these goggles can deliver the front row, center experience for sporting events, concerts or shows I like and/or only replicate my working Mac desktop experience as presented in those "chunky paragraphs" I wrote, this "people" will be first in line to buy them and use them, even at the rumored price.
Personally I don’t see the appeal at all in wearing goggles to see my Mac desktop or watch a movie. Being able to see your surroundings is a key part of working productively. Watching a movie sounds awful too. Movies are a social experience. We sit in a dark theater together with a bunch of strangers and have a shared emotional experience. It’s part of what makes movie watching special.

Reading these comments, it really hit me that the pro-VR crowd is essentially anti-social. They don’t want anyone to bother them. They think being cut off from the world with goggles strapped to their faces will make them more productive. They‘d rather watch a movie without any shared emotional experience with their fellow humans. I don’t think the vast majority of people feel this way. I also think more and more people are waking up to just how isolating and divisive the cell phone has been for society. I don’t see most people embracing VR because it’s fundamentally anti-human.
 
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From this list I am most looking forward to...
AirPods Max 2
Mac mini pro
iPhone 15 Ultra
The AR/VR goggles

Will the AR/VR goggles slip on like glasses or ski goggles? Nothing on the hair/top-of-head is much better. For example, if I want augmented reality I simply put it on.

AirPods Max to has to play lossless. iPhone 15 Ultra could have an outstanding DAC for AirPods Max if a cord is used.

LG debuted a new flat camera module with 9x zoom. iPhone 15 Ultra could be totally wireless with no camera bump.
 
It's gonna replace our desktops.
Imagine having a screen as big as you want, interacting with hands and pointing with eyes instead of using the mouse. This will make most office work much more productive.
In two words: Minority Report.
Sounds terrible and exhausting. I can only begin to imagine the headaches and eye fatigue from using one’s eyes as a pointing device. Minority Report is a great film and some of the tech ideas were very imaginative and even prophetic. But it’s a movie. Just because the tech looks good on the screen in a 30 second scene doesn’t mean it’s actually viable or even a good idea.
 
Sonos has been so disappointing for me. The product has steadily got worse over the years I have owned it thanks to their software upgrades.
I curious why you feel this way. I’ve had a Sonos system for many years and have continued to add new devices. In my mind, their products, including the app, just get better and better. I have a whole house full of Sonos products, from the Arc to multiple Amps. No issues whatsoever.
 
There were MP3 players out well before iPod and smart phones well before iPhone. The infamous, "Apple may not be first but..." line may apply here.

And at that time I remember all of the "Who asked for a thousand songs in your pocket?" retorts.

Or... "The upcoming iPad is just a bigger iPhone. Who wants that?"

Going back further... "A mobile phone with a non-mechanical keyboard? That'll never sell."

Somewhat similar responses to AR here.

So many people fall all over themselves trying to let everyone know why some upcoming Apple product will flop. I guess that takes a whole bunch less effort than taking a minute or two to imagining the possibilities.
 
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Personally I don’t see the appeal at all in wearing goggles to see my Mac desktop or watch a movie. Being able to see your surroundings is a key part of working productively. Watching a movie sounds awful too. Movies are a social experience. We sit in a dark theater together with a bunch of strangers and have a shared emotional experience. It’s part of what makes movie watching special.

Reading these comments, it really hit me that the pro-VR crowd is essentially anti-social. They don’t want anyone to bother them. They think being cut off from the world with goggles strapped to their faces will make them more productive. They‘d rather watch a movie without any shared emotional experience with their fellow humans. I don’t think the vast majority of people feel this way. I also think more and more people are waking up to just how isolating and divisive the cell phone has been for society. I don’t see most people embracing VR because it’s fundamentally anti-human.

Example: I just flew cross country. I wanted to get some work done on that long flight. However, my seat was just too cramped for an open MBpro. iPad is not productive enough. So I put on the Ear goggles (headphones) and burned that time only listening to music. No work got done on that long flight.

However, IF it was possible for these to deliver my desktop screen and equivalent computing power appearing to happen as I interact with that screen, there was room on the tray table for a keyboard & trackpad. Instead of headphone, I slip on goggles/glasses and my whole desktop space may seem to be available to me- big screen ultra-wide (not tablet or MB screen), tactile keyboard and track pad. I could have got much work done.

Think of the people working in interior cubicles all day long. No windows. Just bland beige or white office space. They too may get very little social interaction all day long. What if their work environment could turn bland cubicle walls into corner windows, sunlight, nature outside, etc. Happier work environment? More productivity in such an environment? Whether yes or no, they wouldn't HAVE to work with goggles on. But maybe some would prefer the alt environment, even if it is faked.

I would argue these would be no more anti-social than iPhone can be, with people's nose pointed at that little screen vs. what's going on in the world around them. This just gives them much more screen and much better "AirPods" for the times they want to do things like iPhone, iPad and maybe MBpro or Mac'ing... all within ONE device instead of carrying several... not forced on anyone who prefers to carry & use all that other stuff... just an option for those who might be happier to carry as little as one thing and having eye-fooling access to ALL of that stuff.

I have zero expectations of people going into these on any kind of permanent basis- just like when they want to do things they might do on a laptop or tablet or when watching something on television. Again, airline traveler who "disappears" with eyes closed listening to headphones can feed something to their eyes too. Airline traveler who wants to watch the big game on the in-seat micro-screen might prefer to feel more like they are at the game... or watching it on their bigger screen at home. Multimedia options are GOOD. Those who want it can get it. Those who don't, won't- just like lots of other available tech.

Lastly, there are plenty of opportunities to "attend" events far, far away but can't for any number of reasons. Think of the huge broadway fan that would like to see all of the shows this season in NYC but now lives in Japan or Columbia, etc. Yes, they could fly back & forth, rent hotels, etc AND pay for those tickets to attend all shows... or maybe they attend virtually. Through their eyes & ears they are virtually there among many other people watching in person. They won't necessarily FEEL anti-social... certainly better than not being able to see the shows at all, even if a lessor experience in total.

Yes, I completely agree as technology increasingly draws our attention away from a no-technology world, it does facilitate less social interaction. However, that ship has already sailed. I've seen people nearly walk into traffic because they are too focused on a phone. Texting while driving accidents. Teenagers all sitting together in one room having rich conversations without saying a word. This is simply more of the same. Rejecting this doesn't undo the rest of technology that reduces traditional social interaction. Many of these anti-goggle posts seem like they could as easily apply to much of the rest of technology that generally distracts our eyes & ears from whatever else is going on around us. Put down that d*mn iPhone. Stop focusing on that computer so much. Etc.
 
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You are forgetting that VR goggles have been out for many years now. Apple releasing their own versiln
Or VR would not be some kind revolutionary, never before seen product like it was with something like the first Mac or the iPhone.
Let’s also not forget that the Mac was a commercial failure for many years. The Apple II line subsidized it for many years. Apple nearly went bankrupt when the Mac was its primary product line after the Apple II. Will today’s Apple subsidize a money losing product for years in hopes that it gains traction? I doubt it.
 
I want to believe Apple will update and release all of these products, especially Macs…but that has not been the history of the company for quite a while. One of the main arguments for leaving Intel was more regular updates via Apple Silicon, and I hope it is only the remnants of the pandemic and supply chains causing these delays and not a problem with the chip development.
 
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I want to believe Apple will update and release all of these products, especially Macs…but that has not been the history of the company for quite a while. One of the main arguments for leaving Intel was more regular updates via Apple Silicon, and I hope it is only the remnants of the pandemic and supply chains causing these delays and not a problem with the chip development.
All chip development has problems. Why did Apple switch from 680x0 chips to PowerPC? Why did they switch from PowerPC to Intel? What ever happened to some of the other big-name powerful chip architectures from decades prior, like SPARC and MIPS?

Every chip architecture seems to hit a wall eventually. I’m not saying that has happened with Apple’s chips…yet…but don’t be surprised when it does.
 
Think of the people working in interior cubicles all day long. No windows. Just bland beige or white office space.


Hmmmm ooooookay where does this exist in the year 2022-23 or are you watching The Matrix again?

It's just really astonishing how divorced VR fans and crypto fans are from reality. When they are asked to describe use cases and problem solving, all their answers come out of science fiction and don't reflect the real world at all.
 
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Sounds terrible and exhausting. I can only begin to imagine the headaches and eye fatigue from using one’s eyes as a pointing device. Minority Report is a great film and some of the tech ideas were very imaginative and even prophetic. But it’s a movie. Just because the tech looks good on the screen in a 30 second scene doesn’t mean it’s actually viable or even a good idea.

What if it's NOT that though? For mobile computing now, we carry a laptop: keyboard + trackpad with screen in this folding device. So what if Goggle computing person packs Goggles for the screen and speakers and a physical keyboard + track pad only... basically the bottom "half" of a laptop? Or maybe keyboard and mouse?

Now eyes are simply seeing a screen just like working on- say- an iMac. Hands are clicking physical keys and using a trackpad/mouse- just like an iMac or MB.

If the virtual screens are "retina", where is the eye strain? If it can simulate reality well enough, it should fool us into feeling like we are sitting in front of the iMac. Once one can imagine past the screen portion, a real keyboard and mouse/trackpad completes the illusion. The rumored cameras all over this thing likely show the keyboard on your desk and your hands working on the keyboard.

We seem to have this idea that it is going to be like playing games on Oculus. It shouldn't automatically be a sweaty, exhausting, workout-like experience in this hypothetical use case. It is faking us being at our typical work desk, working on our typical computing setup doing what we usually do. Eyes, hands, arms are only flailing about to exhaustion if that's how we work with something like an iMac now. Else, we've fired up an Oculus-type game to play for a while and those 3D blocks are flying at us and need to be chopped or kicked.

Granted: maybe it CAN'T deliver a fully simulated, retina desktop as I imagine. We'll see what it is whenever it gets around to showing up. But I don't envision it all bad automatically just because it is something different. What was Apple's catch phrase for a LONG time: "Think ___________."
 
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