What to expect from iMac 2012 - Discussion

[flynz4]

I'm really beginning to think the next iMac will have the Super Drive taken out, considering they plan to revamp their Macbook Pro lineup to be more Air-like by end of 2012.

This may be the year that Apple ditches CDs entirely. They already started it with the Air, the Mac Mini, now it's time for the rest.

For the record... I am not an ODD fan. In fact, the inclusion of an ODD in a laptop is pretty much a product dis-qualifier for me. I use a MBA as my personal machine... and a Lenovo X201 as my work PC. Neither have an optical drive, and I personally think that an ODD is obsolete in a laptop. It's impact on mobility outweighs its usefulness.

Having said that, I would be surprised if the iMac removes the ODD this year... or even in '13. I do expect by '15 at the latest it will be gone... maybe even in '14. Given the ease of integrating an ODD into a desktop... I don't see it going away until the broader user base comes to the conclusion that physical media has become obsolete.

/Jim

 

[Digital Skunk]

The Mac is more like the BMW of computers. It's a trendsetter, but that doesn't mean everyone gets to own one. A lot of people get around in their Chevy's while wishing they had BMWs, and today's Chevy's are catching up to what BMW introduced 5-10 years ago.

Well, the truth of the matter is Apple would be to PCs as BMWs are to Chevys if Apple's had features that no other PC had. Or if BMWs didn't offer certain features that were in every other car.

Either way, Macintosh computers are FAR from trendsetters. The Sony VAIO TT series was lighter than, had more power than, and was introduced earlier than the MBA. And every new PC out has HDMI out and USB 3.0; not to mention the option for Blu-ray.

Now, when PCs do start offering TBolt . . . . then maybe the Mac will be a trendsetter for that feature.

If you can find proof that Intel and Asus would disagree with me, then sure. Or if you can show me where Apple had made the very first notebook without an ODD, with a 13" display and near or less than 3lbs sure. Or if a Mac was even the first to be classified as a subnotebook, or if Apple made the first laptop at all! Otherwise, don't bring that crap to what is otherwise a good discussion.

 

[onthecouchagain]

For the record... I am not an ODD fan. In fact, the inclusion of an ODD in a laptop is pretty much a product dis-qualifier for me. I use a MBA as my personal machine... and a Lenovo X201 as my work PC. Neither have an optical drive, and I personally think that an ODD is obsolete in a laptop. It's impact on mobility outweighs its usefulness.

Having said that, I would be surprised if the iMac removes the ODD this year... or even in '13. I do expect by '15 at the latest it will be gone... maybe even in '14. Given the ease of integrating an ODD into a desktop... I don't see it going away until the broader user base comes to the conclusion that physical media has become obsolete.

/Jim

The article I was referring to is here: http://www.appleinsider.com/article...e_with_radically_redesigned_macbook_pros.html

Of course this is more about the Pros. I guess I'm speculating I can't see the iMac being far behind after the Pros lose the ODD. I definitely see it gone well before 2015.

I could be wrong, and in some ways, I hope I am. I personally would prefer the ODD in my iMacs, but if they removed it, I wouldn't feel terrible either.

 

[beosound3200]

Yes, the trendsetter IS the most popular brand. The iPhone is the trendsetter for sure . . . hands down. The Macintosh is not.

Yes, the Macbook Air IS NOT moving the industry in the way of thin, lightweight, flash, ODD less laptops. Even the ill-fated netbook met all of those requirements. Design of those laptops however, is ruled by Apple . . . but Apple has ALWAYS been king of designing top-notch hardware.

p.s. I want to thank you for the discussion. Don't get too much of this on MR.

discussion is one of the most important things

as you said, ill-fated, there was a discussion here somewhere, the one who revolutionazes is not the one who comes out with something first, but the one who brings it to mass market. you can say that apple is the first who brought the netbooks (macbook air) to masses, i.e. popularize it, agree?

and you can guess, there will be more and more netbooks, there were netbooks before, but apple made them popular with its marketing, design and use of flash so they appear fast and capable (one could also argue that the technology came to that point, but i dont think its so simple)

----------

1) Because I like Physical Media I'm not smart? Maybe physical media just integrates with my life more than it does with yours. I have several regularly used computer programs that are relatively new (released in late 2010-late 2011) that I use daily that came on CDs. Almost all my video games are CD based on my Mac, let alone my PS3 games. I have a lot of movies on Blu-Ray (Which I can't watch on my Mac, though my cousin's dell laptop which has a blu-ray player can). I was simply asking if it was because you were a fanboy that you were supporting the non-ODD movement. You stated that you wern't when I asked. How at all does this make my not very smart? I've been able to eclipse almost every point you've made AND even come up with solutions to sort out the problems.

2) You literally refused to buy a computer JUST because it had a disc drive?

3) I'm responding to your bottom quote: Apple is not the most popular brand when it comes to computers. If it was, why do they have ~11% of the market? The Air didn't start the lightweight computer business. Other computer makers also have their lightweight computers, some like ultrabooks which are newer (The Macbook Air is an ultrabook), some around the same time as the initial launch of the Macbook Air, some even before.

--------------
If Apple doesn't give me the option for an integrated disc drive (because the Apple External SuperDrive isn't very good, like most other external drives), I probably won't buy another computer from them.

1) i would be the most stupid guy on this planet if that was the case. i cannot and will not degrade you because of your habits and needs. the previous statement was laid out because of this: 'You only support this because Apple is doing this. If another big company like Dell or HP or Lenovo did this then you would be against it. You don't have any valid stance in this argument anymore.' and you didnt asked, you stated. thats why i said what i said. and yes, you didnt eclipse any of my points except price of the blu ray technology which varies from country to country. in any case, my apologies

2) yes, the macbook pro 17' is priced at 5000$ in my country, and my current pc isnt so bad, so i figured why buy something so expensive when almost 1/3 of its space is consumed by something that i will never use, and space is very valuable in laptops

3) what is the most popular brand in car industry? lets say ferrari...

 

[beosound3200]

Well, the truth of the matter is Apple would be to PCs as BMWs are to Chevys if Apple's had features that no other PC had. Or if BMWs didn't offer certain features that were in every other car.

Either way, Macintosh computers are FAR from trendsetters. The Sony VAIO TT series was lighter than, had more power than, and was introduced earlier than the MBA. And every new PC out has HDMI out and USB 3.0; not to mention the option for Blu-ray.

Now, when PCs do start offering TBolt . . . . then maybe the Mac will be a trendsetter for that feature.

If you can find proof that Intel and Asus would disagree with me, then sure. Or if you can show me where Apple had made the very first notebook without an ODD, with a 13" display and near or less than 3lbs sure. Or if a Mac was even the first to be classified as a subnotebook, or if Apple made the first laptop at all! Otherwise, don't bring that crap to what is otherwise a good discussion.

what does bmw have, the others dont? what does rolls-royce have, the others dont? in terms of features...

again and again, it doesnt matter who is the FIRST, it never mattered, the most important one is the one who popularizes something

my analogy from the other thread: if i invent a mobile phone with 1 year battery life tomorrow and 10 people buy it, i didnt revolutionize mobile phone industry, i did nothing... and certainly i wasnt a trendsetter

and yeah, intel and asus are now eating themselves trying to build ultrabook successful like apples, tech sites all full of those news and rumors, im surprised you didnt know this already

macbook air is the trendsetter because of the pure numbers sold, compare it to vaio tt. and why is it a trensetter, as i stated earlier, other players in industry look up to apple because it is the only company in the pc world that has growth, and believe it or not, everybody wants to make money

just a couple:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2475...th_touch_screens_and_marketed_like_crazy.html
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...12_intels_ultrabooks_to_samsungs_galaxy_note/

 

[0000757]

1) i would be the most stupid guy on this planet if that was the case. i cannot and will not degrade you because of your habits and needs. the previous statement was laid out because of this: 'You only support this because Apple is doing this. If another big company like Dell or HP or Lenovo did this then you would be against it. You don't have any valid stance in this argument anymore.' and you didnt asked, you stated. thats why i said what i said. and yes, you didnt eclipse any of my points except price of the blu ray technology which varies from country to country. in any case, my apologies

2) yes, the macbook pro 17' is priced at 5000$ in my country, and my current pc isnt so bad, so i figured why buy something so expensive when almost 1/3 of its space is consumed by something that i will never use, and space is very valuable in laptops

3) what is the most popular brand in car industry? lets say ferrari...

1)

Basically that dell mark interprets you don't value the companies and have a bias towards Apple. If not speak now.

2) Well I can understand in the case of the price, but I still don't see how that relates to the ODD.

3) Everyone is buying Ferraris and Ferrari sets every standard for cars?

 

[flynz4]

The article I was referring to is here: http://www.appleinsider.com/article...e_with_radically_redesigned_macbook_pros.html

Of course this is more about the Pros. I guess I'm speculating I can't see the iMac being far behind after the Pros lose the ODD. I definitely see it gone well before 2015.

I could be wrong, and in some ways, I hope I am. I personally would prefer the ODD in my iMacs, but if they removed it, I wouldn't feel terrible either.

Of course, any timeframe is just speculation... so I have no idea when the iMac will drop support for ODDs. My point is that an ODD has a detrimental affect on the mobility of a laptop. By contrast... the same detriment does not apply to a desktop.

Clearly, there is a broad range of opinion on the value of an ODD... so some will be upset when it is removed. Hence, I suspect that the ODD will be removed from laptops ahead of desktops. It has already started with MBAs in 2008. The article you mentioned speculates that ODDs might be removed across all laptops in 2012... four years later.

Your guess is as good as mine on when it would be removed from the iMac. My estimate of '14 or '15 is just a guess. I really have no idea. I'll just do not think it will be this year... and probably not next year either.

/Jim

 

[nostylluan]

it's best to not expect anything, that way you won't be disappointed unless the video card is still 512mb or 1gb... then there is problems *shakes fist*

 

[onthecouchagain]

Of course, any timeframe is just speculation... so I have no idea when the iMac will drop support for ODDs. My point is that an ODD has a detrimental affect on the mobility of a laptop. By contrast... the same detriment does not apply to a desktop.

Clearly, there is a broad range of opinion on the value of an ODD... so some will be upset when it is removed. Hence, I suspect that the ODD will be removed from laptops ahead of desktops. It has already started with MBAs in 2008. The article you mentioned speculates that ODDs might be removed across all laptops in 2012... four years later.

Your guess is as good as mine on when it would be removed from the iMac. My estimate of '14 or '15 is just a guess. I really have no idea. I'll just do not think it will be this year... and probably not next year either.

/Jim

Valid points. The Mac Mini lost ODD last year. Wouldn't be surprised if the iMac was next after the MBPs. When that might be though...

 

[NASCAR]

Do you guys think the iMac will ever look like the Apple Cinema Display?

 

[The Final Cut]

Optical drives have no value anymore. the fact that you could buy a super tiny slim one for $20 bucks (you dont need an expensive one) and plug into a computer if you REALLY need one at this point negates any need for them in the actual hardware. that space could be used for more important things or a smaller design.

 

[flynz4]

Valid points. The Mac Mini lost ODD last year. Wouldn't be surprised if the iMac was next after the MBPs. When that might be though...

That is a really good point. I forgot about the Mac Mini. Maybe it is on its way out faster than I expected. Personally, I do not care if it is removed. I really don't use one anymore... and I have a superdrive for my MBA that could be used if I had a reason.

/Jim

 

[beosound3200]

1)


2) Well I can understand in the case of the price, but I still don't see how that relates to the ODD.

3) Everyone is buying Ferraris and Ferrari sets every standard for cars?

yeah, i guess you aint that smart after all...

it relates to odd because it takes 1/3 of the macbook pro 17, that space could be used for something else. for me, odd is total waste of space and functionality because i dont use it at all

are you dumb or what? what is the most popular brand in car industry? popular =/= numbers sold, get it now? in 'normal' cars, mercedes and bmw have by far the most popular brand, but dont sell most cars. its the same with apple. car market is far too old and far too complicated with too many players, there are no obvious trendsetters like in pc/mobile world.
look at the post at the top of this page by forty2j, #301, he sums it up pretty good.

for some reason you dont understand a word i say

 

[forty2j]

Well, the truth of the matter is Apple would be to PCs as BMWs are to Chevys if Apple's had features that no other PC had. Or if BMWs didn't offer certain features that were in every other car.

I'm afraid I can't cite specific examples from the 2012 models. But luxury brands like BMW always introduce safety features and new technology first, and then over time they trickle down to the other brands. Things like iPod integration, automatic traction control, automatic (rain-activated) windshield wipers, and even airbags were luxury before they were mainstream.

In Apple's case, it's always the user experience that people want to copy. And they are always the first to see the future (like, say, the death of the 3 1/2" floppy, or the death of Flash) and actively work to hasten its arrival when they feel the time is right.

 

[0000757]

yeah, i guess you aint that smart after all...

it relates to odd because it takes 1/3 of the macbook pro 17, that space could be used for something else. for me, odd is total waste of space and functionality because i dont use it at all

are you dumb or what? what is the most popular brand in car industry? popular =/= numbers sold, get it now? in 'normal' cars, mercedes and bmw have by far the most popular brand, but dont sell most cars. its the same with apple. car market is far too old and far too complicated with too many players, there are no obvious trendsetters like in pc/mobile world.
look at the post at the top of this page by forty2j, #301, he sums it up pretty good.

for some reason you dont understand a word i say

Then you can just take the ODD out and replace with something else, or just be a whiny-baby and not buy it at all (because if you're going to whine about that, you probably don't deserve it in the first place)


Being the most popular brand, you had have a lot of endorsements. ALL of the competition would fall behind you. Many people would be going after it. Popularity does equal the numbers sold because if you don't sell a lot, you're not popular. How many Ferraris do you see on the road everyday? Now compare that to the number of Toyotas you see everyday. BMW and Mercedes have GOOD cars, and they may be a recognizable brand, but that doesn't mean their popular. Apple may have GREAT computers, but how many are sold compared to a Dell? Exactly. While Popularity isn't just about how many are sold (also depends on h= recognition, endorsements, advertisements, sponsored events), the sales figures are a majority.

Sorry, looks like you are the uneducated one.

 

[beosound3200]

Then you can just take the ODD out and replace with something else, or just be a whiny-baby and not buy it at all (because if you're going to whine about that, you probably don't deserve it in the first place)


Being the most popular brand, you had have a lot of endorsements. ALL of the competition would fall behind you. Many people would be going after it. Popularity does equal the numbers sold because if you don't sell a lot, you're not popular. How many Ferraris do you see on the road everyday? Now compare that to the number of Toyotas you see everyday. BMW and Mercedes have GOOD cars, and they may be a recognizable brand, but that doesn't mean their popular. Apple may have GREAT computers, but how many are sold compared to a Dell? Exactly. While Popularity isn't just about how many are sold (also depends on h= recognition, endorsements, advertisements, sponsored events), the sales figures are a majority.

Sorry, looks like you are the uneducated one.

jesus man, all i can put in instead of odd is another hdd (optibay). i dont need the space. can i put faster cpu? faster gpu? bigger battery? slimmer design? only apple can do that, and will do that when they rid of odd. whiny? youre whiny baby when you dont want to buy something what has idiotic usage of space (odd)? and space is a valuable commodity in laptops, i think thats common sense, and believe me there is a lot of people thinking exactly like me, take a look at macbook pro forum. im not giving 5000$ for something thats not what i want. luckily apple nows that, and is releasing odd-less macbook pros in a couple of months. but its not important anymore cause im waiting for ivy bridge imac.

no. believe it or not, some people dont have the money to buy what they want, thats why popularity =/= numbers sold. show me one person who would rather have toyota instead of ferrari. thats called popularity. show me one person who would rather have 700$ laptop (those 'popular' ones which sell the best) than 2500$ macbook pro. thats popularity, you cant always have what you want. and want makes something popular. popularity in brands isnt the same popularity in music. in music popularity = numbers sold/listened, in material things such as cars or pc, popularity =/= numbers sold because of finite amount of money a person has. if all the people on this world had unlimited money, i think there would be more ferraris and ZERO toyotas.

dont mix education with intelligence. intelligence is inversely proportional to the number of words i need to use to explain such simple concepts to you (like popularity of brand, or absolute madness of integrating an odd (nearly obsolete technology) in macbook pro which desperately needs space. luckily, as you will see, apple doesnt lack previously mentioned human mental characteristic, unlike you

 

[onthecouchagain]

That is a really good point. I forgot about the Mac Mini. Maybe it is on its way out faster than I expected. Personally, I do not care if it is removed. I really don't use one anymore... and I have a superdrive for my MBA that could be used if I had a reason.

/Jim

Yeah. What would be great is if Apple lowered the price of the SuperDrive if/when they release an iMac without the ODD. Maybe from $79 to the $49 or $59 price range. That way people who feel they need the ODD won't feel too cheated, and others will have less hesitation picking up an ODD-less iMac.

Though really, an ODD-less iMac kind of takes away from the "All-in-one"-ness of the product. Doesn't feel so 'together' if there's a separate SupderDrive on the table. Awkward?

 

[forty2j]

Let's not confuse "volume leader" with "popular". How many people do you think actually WANT those HP beige boxes, vs. settling for it because it's cheap/it's what the corporation gave them/etc.?

 

[0000757]

SOLUTION

Offer the option of a SuperDrive with little or no cost.


THERE. HAPPY?

 

[0000757]

no. believe it or not, some people dont have the money to buy what they want, thats why popularity =/= numbers sold. show me one person who would rather have toyota instead of ferrari. thats called popularity. show me one person who would rather have 700$ laptop (those 'popular' ones which sell the best) than 2500$ macbook pro. thats popularity, you cant always have what you want. and want makes something popular. popularity in brands isnt the same popularity in music. in music popularity = numbers sold/listened, in material things such as cars or pc, popularity =/= numbers sold because of finite amount of money a person has. if all the people on this world had unlimited money, i think there would be more ferraris and ZERO toyotas.

People don't want to just buy a Ferrari.

What's the most popular car with families? The car that's safe, that is affordable, that's reliable and safe. A car with good MPG. Unless you're super rich and can just blow money, you're not going to even think about a Ferrari as being "popular". Yes, if everyone did just have unlimited money then people probably would have Ferraris.

Even then, using cars is a terrible, and I mean really terrible, analogy.

Sales is a factor in popularity. Stop fooling yourself.

 

[beosound3200]

Sales is a factor in popularity. Stop fooling yourself.

yes it is, but not directly and unconditionally, it would be if everybody was super rich. then and only then would everybody be buying what they really want (not limited by money and expenses down the road) so it would be direct indicator of popularity. that is a world too simple to exist.

----------

SOLUTION

Offer the option of a SuperDrive with little or no cost.


THERE. HAPPY?

odd will be offered for a price but as an external device

 

[softservedesign]

SDD and ODD... my two cents

Personally I think that the most likely thing to happen is apple adding a 64gb SDD for the OS and app store apps and a 500GB or 1TB HDD for the rest... Although i would love a 500gb sdd drive... but thats not gonna happen.

second, as far as the optical disc drive goes, I think apples main idea is to get rid of the bulk in their portable and small machines and keep the ODD for their more professional lineup... I do think that even if the ODD is removed from the 21.5 it will be left in on the 27"

 

[0000757]

odd will be offered for a price but as an external device

That's practical for the iMac, but not in the MacBook Pro since you're going for portability, and an external SuperDrive (which never performs as well) just isn't portable or convient enough.

 

[musclemilk]

I am looking forward to having a new iMac (21.5inch) with an HD 1080p Facetime Camera (This is possible, right?) Along with updates to iLife (iMovie 2012 sounds neat). A new design form would be interesting too. Hopefully it's released before June....

 

[beosound3200]

That's practical for the iMac, but not in the MacBook Pro since you're going for portability, and an external SuperDrive (which never performs as well) just isn't portable or convient enough.

well, odd is gone from macbook pros in the next revision. they will maybe leave one model, 15', with the option of odd, but i dont think that will happen