What to expect in the second Gen Retina MacBook (Merged)

[boltjames]

I see you're just looking for attention, so I'll give some to you.

I'm not looking for attention, I am offering an opinion just like everyone else. If anything is attention-getting it's your condescending tone.

What reasons does Apple have to do under-the-hood updates to any of their machines 1-2 times a year? That should answer why they would do the same for the rMB. It's not a complete redesign of the internals or the externals. It's simply a refresh of the innards. Conversely, if they do not update it this year, then they will update it in 2017. Does that make better business sense to you? Having a laptop age 2 years or more before updates? Again, evidence and logic will say they will update it in March.

The MacBook Pro of today is a 2006 design. It needs to have under the hood updates because the thing is ancient, if Apple just sat on their hands they'd be out of the notebook business. Same for the Air which is the same design from 2008.

The RMB is a brand new machine, it might have been announced last March but you couldn't find one anywhere until May and it wasn't in stock in all sizes/colors in all Apple Stores until August. Unlike the archaic Pro and Air the RMB is brand spanking new, and from a supply chain standpoint it's only 6 months old. It makes zero sense for Apple to update the RMB at all, especially not for a processor boost when processing ability is just about the least important thing to the RMB's design and it's consumer base.

You make it sound like you don't want Apple to update it more than you think they're not going to. It's silly, your trying to push this opinion onto others. Just enjoy your year-old rMB and let others enjoy theirs when they get the new ones. You had it new for a year, now it will be time for others, no need for sour grapes.

It's not sour grapes, if Apple releases a new RMB with real features that make a difference to my use-case I'll buy it on Day 1 just like I do all other Apple devices. If I lose $500 on Craigslist on resale, it doesn't matter, I have the money.

It's not a 2007 era processor. Skylake is 2015-2016. If you're talking about processor SPEEDS, though, that's something different. Please be more precise in your wording.

Wording? LOL. What's next? Spelling errors? All that Skylake adds are a slight boost to processing speeds no one can feel and battery life no one needs. Oh, Skylake is "10% faster"? What does that mean? Instead of executing a task in, say, 100 milliseconds it will now execute it in 90 milliseconds? What will you do with all that time? Add it up, that's probably about 1 second a day. My God, the whole eyeblink or sneeze some Skylake owner will enjoy while the rest of us suffer.

Skylake adds practically nothing? Seriously? Not sure about your alarmism attitude, but please do some more research before you make yourself look sillier. Bold highlights below.

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only business executive in here. There is not a single, smart, business-related reason for Apple to update this product at this time. The other products are a decade old. The RMB is a newborn.

BJ

 

[vincenz]

I'm not looking for attention, I am offering an opinion just like everyone else. If anything is attention-getting it's your condescending tone.



The MacBook Pro of today is a 2006 design. It needs to have under the hood updates because the thing is ancient, if Apple just sat on their hands they'd be out of the notebook business. Same for the Air which is the same design from 2008.

The RMB is a brand new machine, it might have been announced last March but you couldn't find one anywhere until May and it wasn't in stock in all sizes/colors in all Apple Stores until August. Unlike the archaic Pro and Air the RMB is brand spanking new, and from a supply chain standpoint it's only 6 months old. It makes zero sense for Apple to update the RMB at all, especially not for a processor boost when processing ability is just about the least important thing to the RMB's design and it's consumer base.



It's not sour grapes, if Apple releases a new RMB with real features that make a difference to my use-case I'll buy it on Day 1 just like I do all other Apple devices. If I lose $500 on Craigslist on resale, it doesn't matter, I have the money.



Wording? LOL. What's next? Spelling errors? All that Skylake adds are a slight boost to processing speeds no one can feel and battery life no one needs. Oh, Skylake is "10% faster"? What does that mean? Instead of executing a task in, say, 100 milliseconds it will now execute it in 90 milliseconds? What will you do with all that time? Add it up, that's probably about 1 second a day. My God, the whole eyeblink or sneeze some Skylake owner will enjoy while the rest of us suffer.



Sometimes I feel like I'm the only business executive in here. There is not a single, smart, business-related reason for Apple to update this product at this time. The other products are a decade old. The RMB is a newborn.

BJ

I'm not being condescending-- all I'm offering are facts. The way you take everything personally is very childish, IMO. You could probably be Donald Trump's successor.

Whether you like it or not, how old the product is depends on the RELEASE DATE, not the TIME PERIOD DURING WHICH IT BECAME READILY AVAILABLE. Seriously, you're going to try to debate this one? Hilarious.

By all means upgrade your rMB when the new ones come out. You wouldn't be able to resist anyway. If money means nothing to you, why flame others and attempt to prove that Apple won't update it this year? If you don't give a crap, you wouldn't do this, so that's very telling.

Wording means everything. If you are unclear with what you say or type (which you were, unfortunately), then that causes confusion and makes you look silly. You'd make a terrible lawyer.

Finally, you can call yourself whatever you want, but there's a reason you're not a business executive at Apple. You'd let a consumer laptop go 2+ years without a refresh if you were, which is a great tactical business decision in this industry.

 

[in Cider]

The MacBook Pro of today is a 2006 design. It needs to have under the hood updates because the thing is ancient, if Apple just sat on their hands they'd be out of the notebook business. Same for the Air which is the same design from 2008.

This isn't very accurate. Having had several MBPs/MBAs since 2006 and the rMB since April, I can say there have been a lot of changes to all of the product lines in terms of capabilities, not just specs. For me the rMB is a great computer, but I would personally love more GPU power, as I like to play some retro games mid day between meetings and the rMP struggles just a tad too much at present.

I get the role of the rMP, but I think its ok to want it to be a little more than what it is today.

I'm not being condescending-- all I'm offering are facts. The way you take everything personally is very childish, IMO.

That sounds a bit condescending to me.

Wording means everything. If you are unclear with what you say or type (which you were, unfortunately), then that causes confusion and makes you look silly. You'd make a terrible lawyer.

LOLz. Give me a break, now the low bar for discussion boards is a law degree?


Both of you guys keep me very entertained on "slow business" days. Thank you so much!

 

[vincenz]

That sounds a bit condescending to me.




LOLz. Give me a break, now the low bar for discussion boards is a law degree?


Both of you guys keep me very entertained on "slow business" days. Thank you so much!

It's not about a law degree. You missed the analogy. It's about having clarity and concision in your communication that allows others to fully understand what you mean to say and say to mean, which BJ lacked in that quoted area.

Are you suggesting that opinions rather than facts are more conducive for debates?

 

[Trey M]

The MacBook Pro of today is a 2006 design. It needs to have under the hood updates because the thing is ancient, if Apple just sat on their hands they'd be out of the notebook business. Same for the Air which is the same design from 2008.

Not sure where you get this stuff from. The MacBook Pro was refreshed within the last 4 years, beginning with the 15 inch model in Mid 2012. I have this particular model. It introduced a thinner design, redesigned keyboard, inclusion of HDMI port, very significant weight reductions, among the major update: Retina display.

The Air was refreshed in 2010 (I believe) with a refreshed design that did away with the sliding USB door; all ports were on the sides now as the rest of the lineup was.

Something tells me you knew these facts, but chose to ignore them to strengthen your argument. To say the MBP had the same design in 2009 compared to Mid 2012, for example, is incredibly misleading and ignorant. Are we debating facts or fiction here?

In a previous page on this threadyou wrote that the rMB was, "barely out on the market six months". This is the same kind of misleading statement; at the exact time of your post, the time out on the market had exceeded 9 months. Sure, availability was low in stores, but it is a fact that it had been on the market 9 months.

 

[in Cider]

It's not about a law degree. You missed the analogy. It's about having clarity and concision in your communication that allows others to fully understand what you mean to say and say to mean, which BJ lacked in that quoted area.

Are you suggesting that opinions rather than facts are more conducive for debates?

I don't think I missed the analogy at all, as I work daily in matters of law. I just think, IMHO, its a somewhat pretentious statement, and an unrealistic expectation in this environment.

I guess I just live in a world where my experience with communications has been more process and less science. While aspirationally I would like everyone to encode their communications for the target audiences with high levels of accuracy, it's just not reasonable, IMHO, to expect perfection on an internet message board.

Can we not have a civil discourse to arrive at a shared understanding?

On second thought, no. Please, I'd rather you continue on with the entertainment!

 

[vincenz]

I don't think I missed the analogy at all, as I work daily in matters of law. I just think, IMHO, its a somewhat pretentious statement, and an unrealistic expectation in this environment.

I guess I just live in a world where my experience with communications has been more process and less science. While aspirationally I would like everyone to encode their communications for the target audiences with high levels of accuracy, it's just not reasonable, IMHO, to expect perfection on an internet message board.

Can we not have a civil discourse to arrive at a shared understanding?

On second thought, no. Please, I'd rather you continue on with the entertainment!

In the pursuit of better communication, clear and concise sentence structure and correct grammatical usage is necessary. It doesn't matter what your work is in.

TBH, if your standards are like that, I would not trust you to represent me in any "matters of law."

 

[boltjames]

I'm not being condescending-- all I'm offering are facts. The way you take everything personally is very childish, IMO. You could probably be Donald Trump's successor.

Whether you like it or not, how old the product is depends on the RELEASE DATE, not the TIME PERIOD DURING WHICH IT BECAME READILY AVAILABLE. Seriously, you're going to try to debate this one? Hilarious.

By all means upgrade your rMB when the new ones come out. You wouldn't be able to resist anyway. If money means nothing to you, why flame others and attempt to prove that Apple won't update it this year? If you don't give a crap, you wouldn't do this, so that's very telling.

Wording means everything. If you are unclear with what you say or type (which you were, unfortunately), then that causes confusion and makes you look silly. You'd make a terrible lawyer.

Finally, you can call yourself whatever you want, but there's a reason you're not a business executive at Apple. You'd let a consumer laptop go 2+ years without a refresh if you were, which is a great tactical business decision in this industry.

There are at least 6 personal attacks in this post alone, if you're here to debate the topic that's fine but if you're here to attack me personally I suggest you stop, it's not allowed and I won't respond to it.

BJ

 

[vincenz]

There are at least 6 personal attacks in this post alone, if you're here to debate the topic that's fine but if you're here to attack me personally I suggest you stop, it's not allowed and I won't respond to it.

BJ

I am not attacking you. I am attacking your stance on the facts (aka your "opinions"). You have been using this tone since earlier in this thread to push your opinion onto others that the rMB will not be updated this year and that Apple would actually be ill-advised to do so (which even though is your opinion, it is my opinion that this is grossly misguided).

You put your opinions out there, be ready to defend them. The nail that sticks out the most gets hit the hardest.

 

[in Cider]

In the pursuit of better communication, clear and concise sentence structure and correct grammatical usage is necessary. It doesn't matter what your work is in.

TBH, if your standards are like that, I would not trust you to represent me in any "matters of law."

I support your goal of clear and concise sentence structure and correct grammatical usage, as standards go. I do not believe I have said anything in conflict with that.

Are you suggesting mine "has" not been up "too" said standard?

Unless, are you confusing my use of "expectation" with that of a fictitious, non published, and/or agreed upon Internet message board "standard?"

To restate, my "expectations" for Internet message boards do not rise to the "standards" required by legal matters.

Thank you for your honest feedback, I will reflect on it with due consideration.

 

[vincenz]

I support your goal of clear and concise sentence structure and correct grammatical usage, as standards go. I do not believe I have said anything in conflict with that.

Are you suggesting mine "has" not been up "too" said standard?

Unless, are you confusing my use of "expectation" with that of a fictitious, non published, and/or agreed upon Internet message board "standard?"

To restate, my "expectations" for Internet message boards do not rise to the "standards" required by legal matters.

Thank you for your honest feedback, I will reflect on it with due consideration.

I'm glad we can agree. Never suggested anything about your "standards." Was just saying that something should be said if someone makes a mistake or is unclear, which I pointed out about bj. I think it's OK to do so, if it helps with future communication. Having confusion or doubt about what someone means or meant isn't good, I think. If that were resolved, it would be helpful for all parties reading-- that's all.

 

[boltjames]

I am not attacking you. I am attacking your stance on the facts (aka your "opinions"). You have been using this tone since earlier in this thread to push your opinion onto others that the rMB will not be updated this year and that Apple would actually be ill-advised to do so (which even though is your opinion, it is my opinion that this is grossly misguided).

You put your opinions out there, be ready to defend them. The nail that sticks out the most gets hit the hardest.

You are attacking me personally. My tone in my posts are directed at the RMB and the validity of future features, not other posters. I do not criticize other posters, call them derogatory names, tell them they are "childish", "Donald Trump's successor", or "a terrible lawyer". Those would be personal attacks which are not allowed and I will not respond to.

I am ready to defend my opinions, but I will not be subjected to name calling or engage in same.

BJ

 

[SteveJUAE]

I am not attacking you. I am attacking your stance on the facts (aka your "opinions"). You have been using this tone since earlier in this thread to push your opinion onto others that the rMB will not be updated this year and that Apple would actually be ill-advised to do so (which even though is your opinion, it is my opinion that this is grossly misguided).

You put your opinions out there, be ready to defend them. The nail that sticks out the most gets hit the hardest.

For someone who profess to the art of concise sentence structure you have certainly managed to make childish remarks to provoke a reaction to one and insult another without realising it shows a complete lack and over estimation of the skills you claim to demonstrate.

Maybe if you just stuck to the facts we could of enjoyed your opinions and counter arguments, as we all enjoy BJ getting a good thrashing (rarely) but alas you opted for the sore head

 

[vincenz]

For someone who profess to the art of concise sentence structure you have certainly managed to make childish remarks to provoke a reaction to one and insult another without realising it shows a complete lack and over estimation of the skills you claim to demonstrate.

Maybe if you just stuck to the facts we could of enjoyed your opinions and counter arguments, as we all enjoy BJ getting a good thrashing (rarely) but alas you opted for the sore head

I don't know what my sentence structure has to do with your opinion of my remarks.

If he wants to troll you, you go ahead and encourage it then. He is entitled to whatever opinion he wants, even if it is wrong. I am entitled to say his opinions are trash.


[doublepost=1454443896][/doublepost]

You are attacking me personally. My tone in my posts are directed at the RMB and the validity of future features, not other posters. I do not criticize other posters, call them derogatory names, tell them they are "childish", "Donald Trump's successor", or "a terrible lawyer". Those would be personal attacks which are not allowed and I will not respond to.

I am ready to defend my opinions, but I will not be subjected to name calling or engage in same.

BJ

To be clear, I never called you childish. I called your reactions to other people's differing opinions as childish, going so far as to make ridiculous jumps in logic to defend them. The Donald Trump comment was connected to this assessment. The fact that you took it personally means something.

I said you would make a terrible lawyer. I'm not insinuating that you are one, but that if you were one, you would not be very good at it. If you think that's a direct insult, that's your opinion. As a whole, if you cannot defend your opinions because they are either not sound or were worded incorrectly, then the person in question would not make for a good lawyer, correct?

 

[SteveJUAE]

I don't know what my sentence structure has to do with your opinion of my remarks.

If he wants to troll you, you go ahead and encourage it then. He is entitled to whatever opinion he wants, even if it is wrong. I am entitled to say his opinions are trash.

Maybe that's the problem to much structure and not enough reflection on your content

Please trash BJ's opinion with your own, everyone will support your equal entitlement to that, but not when it is overly personal or deliberately provoking unnecessary conflict

 

[vincenz]

Maybe that's the problem to much structure and not enough reflection on your content

Please trash BJ's opinion with your own, everyone will support your equal entitlement to that, but not when it is overly personal or deliberately provoking unnecessary conflict

Not sure what "too much structure" means, but I think I'm pretty clear. We'll just have differing opinions on what is overly personal then.

 

[boltjames]

To be clear, I never called you childish. I called your reactions to other people's differing opinions as childish, going so far as to make ridiculous jumps in logic to defend them. The Donald Trump comment was connected to this assessment. The fact that you took it personally means something.

I said you would make a terrible lawyer. I'm not insinuating that you are one, but that if you were one, you would not be very good at it. If you think that's a direct insult, that's your opinion. As a whole, if you cannot defend your opinions because they are either not sound or were worded incorrectly, then the person in question would not make for a good lawyer, correct?

We discuss Apple products here, not other posters. Feel free to tell another poster why you disagree with their opinions, do not tell another poster what you think about him as a person.

If you wish to engage in a spirited debate on the next-gen RMB, that's why we're here, I don't back down from any opinion and will offer a counter-argument, that's what discussion forums are for. I will not, however, engage in any discussion with someone who continues to engage in personal attacks. Those are the forum rules. This is the last post I will make on the matter.

BJ

 

[vincenz]

We discuss Apple products here, not other posters. Feel free to tell another poster why you disagree with their opinions, do not tell another poster what you think about him as a person.

If you wish to engage in a spirited debate on the next-gen RMB, that's why we're here, I don't back down from any opinion and will offer a counter-argument, that's what discussion forums are for. I will not, however, engage in any discussion with someone who continues to engage in personal attacks. Those are the forum rules. This is the last post I will make on the matter.

BJ

We'll just disagree then. Whatever you wish, but just know I'll be right here if you want to discuss how terrible your assessment is of the rMB update for this year. It just makes no logical or business sense whatsoever, as I originally stated in my first response to this thread. When the March event rolls around, we will revisit this and you will see.

 

[Bars_12]

Just add one more USB-C port and SSD of 512gb and im good!

 

[boltjames]

Just add one more USB-C port and SSD of 512gb and im good!

You are describing the new MacBook Pro, the RMB will never get a second USB-C port. It goes against everything the RMB is about.

The world would adore the featureset of the MacBook Pro in the form factor of the RMB but we're not there yet. We'd all love our minivan's to handle like Porsche's, just can't happen. So instead of imagining these Frankenbook's, remember that an abundance of ports and processing power equals a Pro, a super-thin and light design equals a RMB, the jury's out on what becomes of the Air.

BJ

 

[in Cider]

You are describing the new MacBook Pro, the RMB will never get a second USB-C port. It goes against everything the RMB is about.

IMO, there is nothing about having 2 usb ports that seems in contradiction to the rMB's role. I expect the rMB to get a second usb port over time, but not at the price of increasing the overall size. As existing components continue to consolidate and free up internal space, Apple will very likely fill that space with additional capability, such as a second usb port.

 

[Trey M]

IMO, there is nothing about having 2 usb ports that seems in contradiction to the rMB's role. I expect the rMB to get a second usb port over time, but not at the price of increasing the overall size. As existing components continue to consolidate and free up internal space, Apple will very likely fill that space with additional capability, such as a second usb port.

I pretty much agree with that assessment, as well. Seeing how incredibly small the logic board is on the rMB and just how much real estate was dedicated to the battery alone, I really think they chose the 1 USB C port to both send a message about their direction with future notebooks as well as just not having enough real estate on the board to be able to accommodate another port.

Perhaps sometimes in the next couple years, when new updates to the logic board occur, Apple will be able to squeeze another USB C port into the machine. After all, while someone can live with just one port given the adapters, etc., I don't think you can really make an argument that 2 isn't better than 1.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I pretty much agree with that assessment, as well. Seeing how incredibly small the logic board is on the rMB and just how much real estate was dedicated to the battery alone, I really think they chose the 1 USB C port to both send a message about their direction with future notebooks as well as just not having enough real estate on the board to be able to accommodate another port.

Perhaps sometimes in the next couple years, when new updates to the logic board occur, Apple will be able to squeeze another USB C port into the machine. After all, while someone can live with just one port given the adapters, etc., I don't think you can really make an argument that 2 isn't better than 1.

You would think its a nice idea but given that they never upgraded the MBA sticky out SD card slot to a full recessed one and the hole etc was already there what's the chances of another USB slot

 

[in Cider]

You would think its a nice idea but given that they never upgraded the MBA sticky out SD card slot to a full recessed one and the hole etc was already there what's the chances of another USB slot

They did add a second speaker to the MBA over time. I hold out hope they will add a second usb port to the rMB. (fingers crossed)

 

[boltjames]

IMO, there is nothing about having 2 usb ports that seems in contradiction to the rMB's role. I expect the rMB to get a second usb port over time, but not at the price of increasing the overall size. As existing components continue to consolidate and free up internal space, Apple will very likely fill that space with additional capability, such as a second usb port.

The RMB could have had 3 USB-C ports from the outset, could have had USB and SD too. But it didn't. Why?

Because Apple made the strategic decision that the RMB is a different kind of notebook, one that embraces the cloud, eschews legacy ports, and will sacrifice anything to reduce size and weight. It has a slow, old processor because fans are thick and heavy. It has a blurry, SD webcam because HD versions are thick. It has a newly designed keyboard to reduce height. It has fantastic new speakers making a big sound in an impossibly small space. It has a new plateaued battery design to reduce thickness. It has a single USB-C port because HDMI, SD, USB, VGA, and all the rest add thickness, weight, and negatively impact battery life.

The single USB-C port in this unique notebook is the sole connection to the past for Apple. And it occupies the space that would have otherwise been used by a power supply, so it's taking up no incremental space in the process. Instead of looking to Apple to add a second USB-C port, you should be thinking about what else they might remove, to reduce weight and thickness. That's the mission of the RMB. Apple didn't release this last year to watch it get thicker and heavier over time. It's going to get thinner and lighter. That's its mission.

BJ