What to expect in the second Gen Retina MacBook (Merged)

[in Cider]

The RMB could have had 3 USB-C ports from the outset, could have had USB and SD too. But it didn't. Why?

Because Apple made the strategic decision that the RMB is a different kind of notebook, one that embraces the cloud, eschews legacy ports, and will sacrifice anything to reduce size and weight. It has a slow, old processor because fans are thick and heavy. It has a blurry, SD webcam because HD versions are thick. It has a newly designed keyboard to reduce height. It has fantastic new speakers making a big sound in an impossibly small space. It has a new plateaued battery design to reduce thickness. It has a single USB-C port because HDMI, SD, USB, VGA, and all the rest add thickness, weight, and negatively impact battery life.

There is little doubt Apple is targeting this device to define a new paradigm in portability.

That said, I do not personally believe, nor are there any indications for me to believe, that Apple will sacrifice anything to reduce size/weight or increase battery life. In fact it's quite the contrary, Apple chose to:

• Use a higher resolution screen that consumes more power than lower res options
• Employ an active touchpad that consumes more power, adds more weight, and saves no cubic volume, when compared to other available mechanical options
• Use two (stereo) speakers that consume more volume, contrary to the original MBA
• Not eschew the headphone jack, consuming more volume and weight when they could have just included usb-c/Bluetooth headphones
• Include a mechanical keyboard when a membrane keyboard would have saved weight and thickness
• Use aluminum for the chassis instead of magnesium or a metal matrix composite
• Etc, etc, etc

Apple could make a much lighter and thinner laptop if they were wiling to compromise further on features and capabilities. Why didn't they?

Because Apple made the strategic decision that the rMB is an evolutionary step toward maximum portability with the minimum viable features as dictated by market pressures for that particular segment.

IMO, they did not exclude a second USB port, to make a statement, anymore than they excluded a second speaker from the original MBA, to make a statement. It was a balance between goals and practical execution.

If and when they can include additional features to maintain or improve their market advantage, they will likely adjust in a value prioritized manner. There is no reason for Apple to not include a second USB port, should they have the necessary advancements in technology/manufacturing. I, for one, think the market would respond well to a second USB port that did not force a step back in size/weight/battery life.

The single USB-C port in this unique notebook is the sole connection to the past for Apple. And it occupies the space that would have otherwise been used by a power supply, so it's taking up no incremental space in the process. Instead of looking to Apple to add a second USB-C port, you should be thinking about what else they might remove, to reduce weight and thickness. That's the mission of the RMB. Apple didn't release this last year to watch it get thicker and heavier over time. It's going to get thinner and lighter. That's its mission.

I have already considered this, please see the list above.

 

[boltjames]

There is little doubt Apple is targeting this device to define a new paradigm in portability.

That said, I do not personally believe, nor are there any indications for me to believe, that Apple will sacrifice anything to reduce size/weight or increase battery life. In fact it's quite the contrary, Apple chose to:

• Use a higher resolution screen that consumes more power than lower res options
• Employ an active touchpad that consumes more power, adds more weight, and saves no cubic volume, when compared to other available mechanical options
• Use two (stereo) speakers that consume more volume, contrary to the original MBA
• Not eschew the headphone jack, consuming more volume and weight when they could have just included usb-c/Bluetooth headphones
• Include a mechanical keyboard when a membrane keyboard would have saved weight and thickness
• Use aluminum for the chassis instead of magnesium or a metal matrix composite
• Etc, etc, etc

Apple could make a much lighter and thinner laptop if they were wiling to compromise further on features and capabilities. Why didn't they?

Thought provoking, but those features are all a) what's expected in a premium notebook at this price, b) media-related for viewing video crisply, listening to music vividly, typing Facebook posts cleanly, etc. The only feature that Apple disappointed on was the HD camera, that makes no sense. The rest of these features are all mission critical for this device.

BJ

 

[in Cider]

a) what's expected in a premium notebook at this price

That is my point exactly, thank you for helping me make it. Apple is driven by market demands, even when creating new markets. They did not eliminate everything they could have to hit the lowest possible size/weight.

Additionally, items on the edge of inclusion this version, may come back in scope when more easily included within their market constraints.

b) media-related for viewing video crisply, listening to music vividly, typing Facebook posts cleanly, etc.

This is not a media consumption device, Apple has been very clear about that. Please see relation to iPad in their collateral.

The only feature that Apple disappointed on was the HD camera, that makes no sense.

Agreed, 480p is pathetic, but a HD camera was likely another feature just outside of the available performance envelope. I expect this to be one of those features to make it in, over time, along with a second USB.

The rest of these features are all mission critical for this device.

I would disagree that all of the features are mission critical. Aluminum, not mission critical. Active touchpad, not mission critical. Backlit keyboard, not mission critical. USB-c, not mission critical.

 

[SteveJUAE]

They did add a second speaker to the MBA over time. I hold out hope they will add a second usb port to the rMB. (fingers crossed)

Now what about a touch screen for us Bootcamp users LOL that will put the cat amongst the pigeons and open up BJ 's thoughts on Apples trump card on fully supporting Windows openly

 

[in Cider]

Now what about a touch screen for us Bootcamp users LOL that will put the cat amongst the pigeons and open up BJ 's thoughts on Apples trump card on fully supporting Windows openly

I would love to see that, but TC's firewall between MBs and iPads may see that as too much of a convergence. A proper Apple 2 in 1 would be great for my workflow.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I would love to see that, but TC's firewall between MBs and iPads may see that as too much of a convergence. A proper Apple 2 in 1 would be great for my workflow.

No chance on the OSX side as you note but a Bootcamp/Win 10 touch rMB emmmmmmm, would be enough to stop those exec's that think they can use an Ipad in leau of a laptop/notebook/thingie

 

[in Cider]

No chance on the OSX side as you note but a Bootcamp/Win 10 touch rMB emmmmmmm, would be enough to stop those exec's that think they can use an Ipad in leau of a laptop/notebook/thingie

You could always kickstart a replacement screen with touch capabilities for the rMB. I'll buy 1.

 

[boltjames]

That is my point exactly, thank you for helping me make it. Apple is driven by market demands, even when creating new markets. They did not eliminate everything they could have to hit the lowest possible size/weight.

I don't know if I'm making your point, I think we're both on the same page that in an era of a $299 doorbuster special HP laptop at Best Buy, a $1,600 notebook simply cannot sell without a retina display, stereo speakers, best-in-class keyboard/touchpad, etc. I might have clarified myself better, sorry, so here:

"Because Apple made the strategic decision that the RMB is a different kind of notebook, one that embraces the cloud, eschews legacy ports, and will sacrifice almost anything to reduce size and weight."

This is not a media consumption device, Apple has been very clear about that. Please see relation to iPad in their collateral.

Ah, but we will disagree here. To me, the RMB is the world's only iOS notebook, it's Apple's better solution to a two-in-one like the Surface. It's more or less an iPad with a keyboard and mouse that can truly multitask and run desktop-class apps.

And, again, to clarify, when I say "media" I mean "social media" as much as I mean movies and TV shows. The RMB is for a traveling executive to run Office, Outlook, Skype, Browser, and iTunes and for a student on a vast campus to do his homework. It's not a workhorse, it's a situational device. It's not a pickup truck, it's a weekend convertible.

Agreed, 480p is pathetic, but a HD camera was likely another feature just outside of the available performance envelope. I expect this to be one of those features to make it in, over time, along with a second USB.

I think a 720p or 1080p camera was just too thick, they couldn't let it protrude like the iPhone, they couldn't make the lid thicker, so they lived without it. If the iPhone 7 rumors are true and it's getting a flush HD camera then I could see Apple making that one of the touted features of the RMB 2.0. That camera means more to prospective RMB buyers than Skylake does. The camera does something they can feel, something they care about, something germane to the mission of the product.

I would disagree that all of the features are mission critical. Aluminum, not mission critical. Active touchpad, not mission critical. Backlit keyboard, not mission critical. USB-c, not mission critical.

Touchpad critical because of height, backlit keyboard is a must-have for an executive on a plane, USB-C is brilliant because it is a power port that can also run all the legacy cables and becomes a tiny docking station. They're all essentials, again, to the consumers the device targets.

BJ

 

[SteveJUAE]

You could always kickstart a replacement screen with touch capabilities for the rMB. I'll buy 1.

Well considering many OSX users are living dual lives with Windows in the office and OSX at home why not make it a real device to compete against SP4/SB etc in a unique way

 

[in Cider]

Ah, but we will disagree here. To me, the RMB is the world's only iOS notebook, it's Apple's better solution to a two-in-one like the Surface. It's more or less an iPad with a keyboard that can truly multitask and run desktop-class apps.

And, again, to clarify, when I say "media" I mean "social media" as much as I mean movies and TV shows. The RMB is for a traveling executive to run Office, Outlook, Skype, Browser, and iTunes and for a student on a vast campus to do his homework. It's not a workhorse, it's a situational device. It's not a pickup truck, it's a weekend convertible.

I'm not sure TC would not agree this is the rMB's goal. He has very clearly stated media consumption is the role of the iPad. Also, social media accessibility is not a principle goal of an executive tool, but leverages similar features.

While you can find value beyond what Apple targets, I don't think it is fair to state these are the intended goals of a product when the manufacturer states otherwise. Apple wants a discrete device for each defined role. One's extension of the rMB to fit their broader wants should not be more vaild than another's.

I would like to be able to add pro features form time to time through TB3/USB-c, this is not more or less valid than other's wants. I would also like a second USB-c or wireless charging, as long as it doesn't degrade/compromise the current specs. Same here.

I think a 720p or 1080p camera was just too thick, they couldn't let it protrude like the iPhone, they couldn't make the lid thicker, so they lived without it. If the iPhone 7 rumors are true and it's getting a flush HD camera then I could see Apple making that one of the touted features of the RMB 2.0. That camera means more to prospective RMB buyers than Skylake does. The camera does something they can feel, something they care about, something germane to the mission of the product.

Yes, I'm hoping their composite sensor tech will help keep the thichkess down while pumping up the resolution.

Touchpad critical because of height, backlit keyboard is a must-have for an executive on a plane, USB-C is brilliant because it is a power port that can also run all the legacy cables and becomes a tiny docking station. They're all essentials, again, to the consumers the device targets.

The active touchpad was not required for height, look at the teardowns and caliper measurements, this is to drive other agendas beyond size/weight. Backlit is nice, but wouldnt you rather lose that .001" of thickness and use the overhead light, or save the 9.7 grams of weight in LEDs? USB-C is not the same thing as the USB Power Spec, and USB-C was not required to power the laptop or provide expansion options, this was to drive other agendas beyond size/weight.

I think Apple did a great job balancing the rMB, but none of these are "essential," they are highly desired by the market. They are decision points in the product development lifecycle, as was the decisions to forgo a second USB-c in this iteration. The rMB could have lost one of these features and added another and still been selling like hotcakes. I would have rather seen a switch to a new casing material to accommodate some additional features, like wireless charging.

Apple is very good at tight integration and judiciously choosing when to leverage their weight to drive long term agendas, while at the same time selling those trade-offs as necessary for the whole. I love their products, but I don't buy into the RDF.

 

[toddzrx]

They did add a second speaker to the MBA over time. I hold out hope they will add a second usb port to the rMB. (fingers crossed)

But what do you really need a second USB-C port for? I realize that most people, with their current setup, use multiple ports. For example, I'm using 6 of the 9 ports on my home iMac: Ethernet to the router and all 4 USB ports (2 hard drives, a keyboard, and a printer, and both USB ports are used up on the keyboard with wireless accessories). But I could easily see my setup changing to where my accessories are all plugged into a stationary monitor and a (future) rMB is plugged into it with a single USB-C cable which serves charging, data transfer, and video out needs simultaneously. This leaves the rMB free to be easily taken on the road when needed, no doubt its primary mission.

 

[Trey M]

But what do you really need a second USB-C port for? I realize that most people, with their current setup, use multiple ports. For example, I'm using 6 of the 9 ports on my home iMac: Ethernet to the router and all 4 USB ports (2 hard drives, a keyboard, and a printer, and both USB ports are used up on the keyboard with wireless accessories). But I could easily see my setup changing to where my accessories are all plugged into a stationary monitor and a (future) rMB is plugged into it with a single USB-C cable which serves charging, data transfer, and video out needs simultaneously. This leaves the rMB free to be easily taken on the road when needed, no doubt its primary mission.

I agree that mostly, the concerns about the single port are overblown. In my opinion, the average user walking out of the Apple Store with a rMB in hand will rarely run into a scenario where a single USB port is hindering their ability to perform whatever task is necessary. It is so often talked about on this forum because most individuals here are power users that certainly don't represent the average rMB user, especially considering the rMB is designed for those who don't value performance over everything else.

But think about this scenario: you're at the airport between flights, and your phone and laptop are dead. You're able to find just 1 power outlet. Normally, with a regular MBP, you could just plug in your laptop charger and then plug your phone into your laptop. With the rMB, this isn't possible. It's situations like these that I think really steer people away from giving the rMB a fair chance. Though, admittedly, it doesn't really bother me much-- I actually purchased a rMB but decided to return it in hopes for Skylake/TB3 combo.

Now, I realize the above scenario could be avoided if you had the $79 adapter Apple sells. Or if you had a portable charger, which I never travel without. But Apple users don't want to lug around their expensive, easy to lose adapter everywhere they go. Sure, this is all essentially based around paranoia of running into a situation most are unlikely to face. But remember how upset people were when the MBA didn't include a CD drive?!

My favorite conversation I used to have:

They: "Wow, is that the Macbook Air? I love how thin it is, but I would never buy a laptop without a CD drive. That's stupid."

Me: "Well, how many times a year do you actually use your CD drive?"

They: *Silence*

 

[navaira]

They: "Wow, is that the Macbook Air? I love how thin it is, but I would never buy a laptop without a CD drive. That's stupid."

Me: "Well, how many times a year do you actually use your CD drive?"

They: *Silence*

Now I am taking this out of context a bit but the same conversation in 2016 could be...

They: "Wow, is that the rMB 2016/iPhone 7? I love how thin it is, but I would never buy a device without a 3.5mm jack. That's stupid."

Me: "Well, how many times a year do you actually use your wired headphones?"

They: Erm, I've used it for four hours today already.

 

[in Cider]

But what do you really need a second USB-C port for?

For me, I would classify it as more of a want than a need. It wasn't a critical factor and it didn't stop me from purchasing a rMB, and 95% of the time it isn't an issue. For the most part, I am able to work around those times where a second USB port would be useful.

That said, I have hit overall bandwidth limits (not CPU bound), where some tasks take longer port chained than they would with dedicated ports. Additionally, I would like to be able to be able to make it though the work day traveling room to room with what I can carry in suit pockets (without looking disheveled) and in my hands. So, I don't like to carry a plethora of dongles/converters.

Some of my wants may be addressed by TB3, if that comes next rev, while others may take longer...

 

[toddzrx]

That said, I have hit overall bandwidth limits (not CPU bound), where some tasks take longer port chained than they would with dedicated ports. Additionally, I would like to be able to be able to make it though the work day traveling room to room with what I can carry in suit pockets (without looking disheveled) and in my hands. So, I don't like to carry a plethora of dongles/converters.

Some of my wants may be addressed by TB3, if that comes next rev, while others may take longer...

The anecdotal evidence on this forum tells me that the rMB is on the edge of true all-day battery life. If you have the settings right and don't do too much processor intensive work, you can make it through the day. But many others report sub-8 hour battery life too. While all day battery life will be nice, it's by no means a deal breaker for me since mine would spend most of its time docked. But I feel your pain.

 

[in Cider]

The anecdotal evidence on this forum tells me that the rMB is on the edge of true all-day battery life. If you have the settings right and don't do too much processor intensive work, you can make it through the day. But many others report sub-8 hour battery life too. While all day battery life will be nice, it's by no means a deal breaker for me since mine would spend most of its time docked. But I feel your pain.

I do get through the day, most of the time, but any extra 15-20% would be welcome.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

I have the impression that people usually get 5-7 hours on the Macbook. Personally I would like that to be higher, especially since the 13" Air lasts way longer.

 

[in Cider]

I have the impression that people usually get 5-7 hours on the Macbook. Personally I would like that to be higher, especially since the 13" Air lasts way longer.

There seems to be a good amount of variation in the rMB battery capacities once they stabilize. I'm lucky enough to be at 93% after 8/9 months and 125+ cycles, some people are just over 80% in the same time/cycle count. The extra percentage makes a huge difference.

 

[navaira]

Yeah the thread here about the battery dropping superfast is rather unsettling. I've been keeping my Air connected to AC 90% of the time (i.e. when I am sitting on the sofa anyway and not doing anything that really requires portability), have 20 cycles and still more than 100% battery capacity.

 

[intz2nu]

I'd love to see Apple release one of these in a 14" screen size with larger storage options.

 

[satchmo]

One thing worth discussing is the possibility of introducing a 14" model alongside a redesign of the MBP line. This is PURE speculation, but would possibly be something logical on the assumption that Apple would at the same time discontinue the MBA line completely. They could then add an additional USB-C to the right side of the 14" model, creating a differentiation between it an the 12" model, in the same way they give more ports to the 13" MBA currently over the 11". This would probably result in the MBP line going to a 14" and 16" line-up as well.

If they do this, they better somehow differentiate between the two product lines. Otherwise, they'll end up with the same problem they have now with the MBP and MBA product line. And the MB has a retina display that a MBA doesn't.

 

[boltjames]

If they do this, they better somehow differentiate between the two product lines. Otherwise, they'll end up with the same problem they have now with the MBP and MBA product line. And the MB has a retina display that a MBA doesn't.

The MBA is not going anywhere. It's Apple's most popular notebook and at a popular price.

There will be the MBP and the RMB as the benchmark Apple products. The MBA will be cost-reduced and demoted for third world countries and emerging markets becoming the iPhone 5C of the MacBook range.

BJ

 

[satchmo]

The MBA is not going anywhere. It's Apple's most popular notebook and at a popular price.

There will be the MBP and the RMB as the benchmark Apple products. The MBA will be cost-reduced and demoted for third world countries and emerging markets becoming the iPhone 5C of the MacBook range.

BJ

So the MBA is not going anywhere, but then you suggest it's going to third-world countries.
I think the MBA's done (as a mainstream product).

It's clear Apple's headed to "retinized" all their products. The MB becomes the low-priced offering (more so when they cut the price by $200 in the next revision). They just need to ensure it's not too powerful that it infringes on MBP territory.

 

[boltjames]

So the MBA is not going anywhere, but then you suggest it's going to third-world countries.
I think the MBA's done (as a mainstream product).

It's clear Apple's headed to "retinized" all their products. The MB becomes the low-priced offering (more so when they cut the price by $200 in the next revision). They just need to ensure it's not too powerful that it infringes on MBP territory.

Let's not get lost in the semantics. When I say "not going anywhere" I mean it's not being discontinued.

My opinion, the MacBook Pro gets a major overhaul as the flagship notebook in the Apple line, no brainer there. The MacBook Retina line gets expanded to a 14" screen size, some may argue against this, I think it's inevitable. The MacBook Air doesn't change at all, the 11" and 13" models continue at reduced prices as the "third world" and entry level Apple notebooks.

If you want a value priced notebook for your business organization or Ugandan tribe, you get an Air. The rest choose from a workhorse desktop replacement (Pro) or an ultralight executive/student portable (RMB) and that's that. It's the same line that Apple had back when the Air was first launched, it's just that the RMB takes the space of the super-ultralight and the Air gets demoted to the budget tweener with the low-res screen.

BJ

 

[dogslobber]

Let's not get lost in the semantics. When I say "not going anywhere" I mean it's not being discontinued.

Think matrix. Think matrix. 2x2. Consumer and Professional. It's really quite simple.

What you need to grasp is that Apple must resist returning to the bad old days of non-exoteric market segmentation. You struggle to paint a picture of why the MacBook exists with fancy words about jet setting executives. It's not language the punter in the street understands. KISS is a well used term but is apt when selling computers. Keep it simple; keep choices limited.