What We Learn From Leopard's Delay

[TheAnswer]

I learned (again) that Thinksecret is as unreliable as the National Enquirer for inside information....


Think Secret, two months ago:

Development of Mac OS X 10.5 is wrapping up faster than many at Apple even anticipated, and at present, a release can be expected as early as late March, sources say.

Think Secret, in an “exclusive” scoop 11 days ago:

Apple is currently planning to release Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard in June, mostly likely at or around its Worldwide Developers Conference, reliable sources report.

I think we can all shun Thinksecret now, can't we?

The funniest part is that only one comment post in the past couple of days is critical of their reporting and imaginary sources. They must keep a pretty close eye on the comments and delete as necessary. Thinksecret is actually less entertaining than that dreck MOSR used to spout...at least MOSR had a dreamlike Fellini-esque quality about it.

 

[Gump]

With a delay until October, I won't be happy until Leopard can run Windows executables natively with the help of a few Vista DLL's!!!!

Now try that on for size Apple, I'd prefer to keep a full-blown MS operating system off my Mac and run Windows software instead!

 

[localoid]

With a delay until October, I won't be happy until Leopard can run Windows executables natively with the help of a few Vista DLL's!!!!...

A Windows exe running via the emulation of the Window API "with the help of a few Vista DLL's" isn't running "native" under OS X by any stretch of the imagination...

A "native" application would be an app compiled on OS X that directly accesses OS X system libraries.

 

[Naimfan]

i wanted to switch this summer to laptop with Leopard.

I've not read through this entire thread, but this post and others like it really make me shake my head. Why, exactly, would you wait to switch "this summer" when no one outside of Apple definitively knows what advantages Leopard will have? If you want a laptop, and it will do what you want it to, buy one now. Why, precisely, was Leopard so important?

Best,

Bob

 

[Naimfan]

Too bad about the delay, I was going to swap over to Macs. The delay tells me Apple is no longer serious about their desktop platforms. Their focus is on trendy devices for a younger generation. Nothing wrong with that, it's all good buisness [sic] I guess. I was looking to outfit my business with all new Macs as well...wanted my first purchase for myself though. Waiting six months is one thing, but the thought that Apple may shift its focus away from the desktop is another. I've spent the last five months researching both Vista and Leopard, was excited about going Mac....for now, I'm rethinking my next purchase.

I'm sorry, this is simply absurd. You contradict yourself in the space of three sentences--you say "[t]he delay tells me Apple is no longer serious about their desktop platforms," and then, in the third following sentence, you say "the thought that Apply may shift its focus away from the desktop is another." So either they are no longer serious about their desktop platforms, which is think is simply absurd, or you are concerned that they are going to shift their focus away from the desktop. Those are two inconsistent statements.

Also, your statements reflect no acceptance of Apple's own stated reason for the delay--that the OSX code warriors had to be diverted to the iPhone. While the iPhone's operating system is based on, and compatible with, OSX, any work they did on the iPhone had to be at the expense of something else--namely, Leopard. Ditto for the Apple TV. It also doesn't consider the statements from people here who receive developer seeds. Also, I'm curious how you research for five months a product that isn't available?

I don't mean to pick on you personally--there are a lot of similar posts in the pages I've read on this thread. And delay can't be the only reason you have for not investing in Macs--if a 4 month delay were, you never would have considered Vista in the first place, which was delayed something like two years.

My sense is that Leopard will reflect a lot of integration for Apple--including the iPhone, Apple TV (which is surely only the beginning), iPods, etc., as well as a larger emphasis on corporate markets, with their need for stability, networking, etc., as well as completing the Intel transition. So I suspect one of the major reasons for the delay is in making sure Leopard is both complete (as in being mostly bug-free and functional) as well as comprehensive (by which I mean able to integrate and adapt to Apple's new hardware--iPhone, Apple TV, whatever else comes, and reaching to other markets).

I have no real opinion on whether (or when) Apple knew Leopard would not be ready for a June release. I suspect the actual programmers knew a while ago, but that in inevitable corporate fashion upper management (from VP to SVP) did not become aware until later, and that the decision to announce the release delay was discussed extensively at the EVP/CEO level.

Best,

Bob

 

[Bosunsfate]

But the big question is why they need 4 months to debug it after it is feature complete. That would only be needed if there were major changes. So WWDC 07 will definitely be interesting.

Those with expierence in developing large softare projects certainly realize that a 4 month release cycle from feature complete is not that long. Many projects take much longer than 4 months.

Why did it slip so many months? I still don't get it.
Is it really that bug-ridden or are they so inefficiently resourced that they really need another 4 months?

This slip is nothing. In fact, given the software industry's track record Apple has one of the best records for releasing software on time. The fact that they want a few extra months to make sure the iPhone goes out on time, and slip the OS by a few months...what a no brainer decision.

For those of you still complaining...why don't you hit the streets and complain about something that is really taking too long...this US Presidency...

 

[SteveG4Cube]

I think people need to look at the bigger picture here. Everyone who's bitching that Apple isn't a computer company anymore need to realize that Jobs makes no secret of this. He's often said things about moving his vision onto other things. Remember when Apple said they wanted Macs to be the hub of people's digital life? They've been building toward this for a long time now. Before there was an iLife or iPod, there was iMovie.

Using a Mac as a central spot for all of today's technology to come together has really been their long term goal (for the consumer market - there will always be a different need for pro users). Now we've got iPods, TVs, wireless internet, Bluetooth phones, and countless other stuff that all comes together thanks to our computers. Next we'll have the iPhone, running a compact version of OSX.

All of this goes hand in hand with OS development. Whether you use an iPod, iPhone, TV, or some other device with your Mac, everyone benefits in some way from this level of integration. Waiting a couple more months for them to polish it is only going to benefit everyone. In the meantime, we have Tiger which does the job just fine.

Maybe they didn't "invent" MP3 players, phones, or even computers, but just like how the Apple ][ pushed PCs into the mainstream, so has the iPod done with portable digital music. And so might TV and iPhone do so with online video content and do-it-all phones. All of this means brand recognition, which brings switchers, which means more people experience the OS that everyone thinks Apple is abandoning.

Some of the newcomers may not remember the dark times, and laugh at those who drink the Kool Aid from within the RDF of Steve, but I think it's about the best time ever to be a Mac user and it's only gonna get better.

 

[lmcargo]

I'm sorry, this is simply absurd. You contradict yourself in the space of three sentences--you say "[t]he delay tells me Apple is no longer serious about their desktop platforms," and then, in the third following sentence, you say "the thought that Apply may shift its focus away from the desktop is another." So either they are no longer serious about their desktop platforms, which is (sp I) think is simply absurd, or you are concerned that they are going to shift their focus away from the desktop. Those are two inconsistent statements.

I feel Apple is no longer serious about their desktop platforms, which is the reason for their shift (in this case the delay to work on the iPhone) to other devices.

Also, your statements reflect no acceptance of Apple's own stated reason for the delay--that the OSX code warriors had to be diverted to the iPhone. While the iPhone's operating system is based on, and compatible with, OSX, any work they did on the iPhone had to be at the expense of something else--namely, Leopard. Ditto for the Apple TV.

That's my point.

And delay can't be the only reason you have for not investing in Macs--if a 4 month delay were, you never would have considered Vista in the first place, which was delayed something like two years.

I didn't need a total IT infrastructure replacement two years ago. If I had, the Vista delay would've bothered me as well. I need a total new infrastructure by mid summer. I'm currently running a legacy Sun infrastructure. We, my IT department and I, began researching for replacements back in the fall. Granted, no one in my IT department received betas...we contracted out to research firms for their advice. At that time Vista was nearing completion, Apple was progressing as well. I could've gone the Vista route but it was my decision to actually waited for Leopard.

 

[lmcargo]

I'm sorry, this is simply absurd. You contradict yourself in the space of three sentences--you say "[t]he delay tells me Apple is no longer serious about their desktop platforms," and then, in the third following sentence, you say "the thought that Apply may shift its focus away from the desktop is another." So either they are no longer serious about their desktop platforms, which is (sp I) think is simply absurd, or you are concerned that they are going to shift their focus away from the desktop. Those are two inconsistent statements.

I feel Apple is no longer serious about their desktop platforms, which is the reason for their shift (in this case the delay to work on the iPhone) to other devices.

Also, your statements reflect no acceptance of Apple's own stated reason for the delay--that the OSX code warriors had to be diverted to the iPhone. While the iPhone's operating system is based on, and compatible with, OSX, any work they did on the iPhone had to be at the expense of something else--namely, Leopard. Ditto for the Apple TV.

That's my point.

And delay can't be the only reason you have for not investing in Macs--if a 4 month delay were, you never would have considered Vista in the first place, which was delayed something like two years.

I didn't need a total IT infrastructure replacement two years ago. If I had, the Vista delay would've bothered me as well. I need a total new infrastructure by mid summer. I'm currently running a legacy Sun infrastructure. We, my IT department and I, began researching for replacements back in the fall. Granted, no one in my IT department received betas...we contracted out to research firms for their advice. At that time Vista was nearing completion, Apple was progressing as well. I could've gone the Vista route but it was my decision to actually waited for Leopard.

 

[coffey7]

I hope the delay is to make it really a big step forward instead of just a visual update of the current OS.

 

[Bosunsfate]

I didn't need a total IT infrastructure replacement two years ago. If I had, the Vista delay would've bothered me as well. I need a total new infrastructure by mid summer. I'm currently running a legacy Sun infrastructure. We, my IT department and I, began researching for replacements back in the fall. Granted, no one in my IT department received betas...we contracted out to research firms for their advice. At that time Vista was nearing completion, Apple was progressing as well. I could've gone the Vista route but it was my decision to actually waited for Leopard.

If you are serious about completly replacing your IT infrastructure, the last thing you should be doing is trying to time that with a new release of software.

The last thing you want is to deal with the numerous patches that will come after the first release. Its the nature of new software.

Go with Tiger, its stable and still a killer OS.

 

[Bosunsfate]

I hope the delay is to make it really a big step forward instead of just a visual update of the current OS.

I would feel pretty confident that Leopard is not a "visual" update. If it was, why would that cause a delay as engineers were pulled off to work on the iPhone.

What you see happening (as well with the AppleTV) is that Leopard is under the hood on all of the new products that Apple is releasing, named and unamed.

That means the integration between all of these is going to be really hard, and if they can still do it all and deliver by October...I'll be impressed.

 

[Stella]

I'll buy another laptop when 10.5 comes out too.

Why? Because 10.5 comes 'free' with the laptop. I'm looking to change anyway, and its cheaper to buy when 10.5 is out rather than buying PowerBook now + 10.5 later. I can wait until October.

I can use the $170 on other things.

I've not read through this entire thread, but this post and others like it really make me shake my head. Why, exactly, would you wait to switch "this summer" when no one outside of Apple definitively knows what advantages Leopard will have? If you want a laptop, and it will do what you want it to, buy one now. Why, precisely, was Leopard so important?

Best,

Bob

 

[Naimfan]

LM--

You said "I feel Apple is no longer serious about their desktop platforms, which is the reason for their shift (in this case the delay to work on the iPhone) to other devices." So why, then, would you say "the thought that Apply may shift its focus away from the desktop is another." Both of those statements cannot be true. Either Apple already has shifted away, or they have not. You believe (apparently) that Apple has shifted and is no longer "serious" about desktop platforms. That's fine, but you cannot maintain both positions.

As to the rest--I wish you only the best with a complete infrastructure replacement. Not a fun time!

Best,

Bob

 

[budward]

iPhone GoHOME!

You know.. delay the damn iPhone instead, after all OSX doesn't have the market share the iPhone will have right? Wrong! Why even announce the iPhone 6 months early... sheesh.. all I want my cell phone to do is call someone.. I don't need it to email, take a pic, video game, play music and built a bridge...

WTF cares... Apple you blow for choosing iPhone over Leopard.

And since I am on a rant right now... Parallels is the worst *expletive* company that sells software for OSX. There support is non-existant, yes they say we offer free email support.. well I have sent hmm.. 5 emails to them without a reply. They are a total "Take the money and run company" Why do they get such good press, there product has nothing on VMware fusion. I have both and VMware even offers you email support on their beta product, not to mention it supports my 30" display for linux and BSD. Parallels you are greedy *expletive* scum.

Ahhh.. I think I forgot my medication today...

Sorry if I am annoying, but truthfully both these issues got under my skin.

 

[nuckinfutz]

You know.. delay the damn iPhone instead, after all OSX doesn't have the market share the iPhone will have right? Wrong! Why even announce the iPhone 6 months early... sheesh.. all I want my cell phone to do is call someone.. I don't need it to email, take a pic, video game, play music and built a bridge...

WTF cares... Apple you blow for choosing iPhone over Leopard.

And since I am on a rant right now... Parallels is the worst *expletive* company that sells software for OSX. There support is non-existant, yes they say we offer free email support.. well I have sent hmm.. 5 emails to them without a reply. They are a total "Take the money and run company" Why do they get such good press, there product has nothing on VMware fusion. I have both and VMware even offers you email support on their beta product, not to mention it supports my 30" display for linux and BSD. Parallels you are greedy *expletive* scum.

Ahhh.. I think I forgot my medication today...

Sorry if I am annoying, but truthfully both these issues got under my skin.

I understand your frustration. The problem is that the iPhone has competition and Leopard does not. If Apple bungles the iPhone launch then they corroborate the FUD that came from companies like Nokia and other stalwarts in the cell game. Delaying the iPhone would be perceived "very" negatively. Leopard is going to be a great OS but let's be honest it's not "Mission Critical" that we get Leopard before the iPhone.

Sorry to hear about Parallels. They are local to my area..maybe I'll go there and bust some heads for you. They better improve because VMware has the name and experience.

 

[DJ OJ]

I know I have no knowledge of software codingish stuff and not a lot about apple compared to you guys but all I want to say is, give the guys at apple a break. those developers spend all day and sometimes night working on great, beautiful products and because of a small ( Like nothing compared to vista) delay the whole mac community is angry! I know iPhone is going to be great, I know Leopard is going to be great and I am HAPPY to wait for quality software!

BTW, I don't that apple is not serious about their computers. SO HA!

 

[thewhitehart]

Any Wall Street pundit would tell you that delaying Leopard and making sure the iPhone comes out first is the right call for Apple. It's pretty obvious, I don't think it needs explaining.

People who already own macs are unlikely to ditch their chosen platform because of an operating system delay. (Most people, not including the irrational macrumors demographic ). People who worry about Leopard are, like another poster hinted, nerdcore. Your average new mac buyer can care less about Leopard, if they even know what it is.

We have rumor sites like this because Apple is too smart to fall victim to the Osbourne Effect. What we learn from Leopard's delay is that people who are very enthusiastic about a company (like us) are often ill-suited too see what is best for business. That's also why companies like Apple have had mass firing purges in the past.

Putting the iPhone first was a good call on Apple's part.

 

[3282872]

Wine has been around in the Linux world since 1993.

It's nothing new and revolutionary. It's functionality is currently very limited.

Remember "Lindows" and the wild promises (circa 2001) that Lindows would run any and every Windows program (by using Wine)?

It didn't happen.

Ok, so maybe it wasn't WINE that I was thinking of, but I did read in a few places that there has been talk of getting rid of "Boot Camp" altogether and somehow allowing Windows programs to run natively as independent programs on Intel systems with the new OS.

 

[piltupso]

I learned where Apple is really interested in allocating its resources.

 

[uraniumwilly]

I learned that some people whine a lot. I also learned that Tiger is a great OS that is still ahead of Vista.

I'd guess the OS Leopard ship might have chozen to perform some directional adjustment to further accentuate Apple from Vista.

Or maybe it's the bugs.

 

[chesterville]

Any Wall Street pundit would tell you that delaying Leopard and making sure the iPhone comes out first is the right call for Apple. It's pretty obvious, I don't think it needs explaining.

People who already own macs are unlikely to ditch their chosen platform because of an operating system delay. (Most people, not including the irrational macrumors demographic ). People who worry about Leopard are, like another poster hinted, nerdcore. Your average new mac buyer can care less about Leopard, if they even know what it is.

We have rumor sites like this because Apple is too smart to fall victim to the Osbourne Effect. What we learn from Leopard's delay is that people who are very enthusiastic about a company (like us) are often ill-suited too see what is best for business. That's also why companies like Apple have had mass firing purges in the past.

Putting the iPhone first was a good call on Apple's part.

I completely agree with thewhitehart on this. People who use this site have to remember that most of the 100 million iPods Apple has sold have been to "mainstream" customers. Apple is now much more than a computer company, and I think this will prove to be a good thing over the long run, even for those of you who complain that "Apple doesn't care about computers anymore" - it will allow Apple to offer you more innovative products and services, and more revenue = more R & D. Apple will continue to lead the way in computers, and is beginning to do the same in consumer electronis.

Secondly, regardless of whether or not the iPhone is the true culprit behind Leopard's delay (I suspect it is not), after spending the last couple of months trashing MS and Vista, Apple has to ensure that Leopard is the best darn OS they've ever released.

Thirdly, people will continue to buy macs. I say this from experience. I still plan on buying a MB (or MBP, still haven't decided) this summer because Apple still makes pound-for-pound and dollar-for-dollar the best computers, and Tiger is much, much better than Vista or XP. Be thankful you at least have Tiger, it will tide you over until October...

 

[Father Jack]

It can crash, and Kernel Panics seem more common

Perhaps I'm just lucky ...... or the Lord is on my side (LOL)

FJ

 

[localoid]

Ok, so maybe it wasn't WINE that I was thinking of, but I did read in a few places that there has been talk of getting rid of "Boot Camp" altogether and somehow allowing Windows programs to run natively as independent programs on Intel systems with the new OS.

Oh yes, there's never a lack of "talk" about <insert fantastic sounding, but totally unreasonable to expect feature here> that supposedly is going to be part of Leopard.

The reality is that there are existing solutions for people who need to run Windows programs, e.g., emulators or virtualization software. But Apple would have to be crazy to include same within the OS. There's no way they could handle the support for running any and every Windoze program ever created, or yet to be created.

 

[Episteme]

Oh yes, there's never a lack of "talk" about <insert fantastic sounding, but totally unreasonable to expect feature here> that supposedly is going to be part of Leopard.

The reality is that there are existing solutions for people who need to run Windows programs, e.g., emulators or virtualization software. But Apple would have to be crazy to include same within the OS. There's no way they could handle the support for running any and every Windoze program ever created, or yet to be created.

To implement the Vista APIs on OS X would be commercial suicide for Apple.

Who would continue to write Apple-native software if they could just say "use the Windows version"?

Same thing happened with OS/2 when they offered the ability to run Windows software -- practically no native software outside of IBM's own (and even then, in some cases, depending on division!) resulted in a user-base with a lot of Windows software. The logical upgrade path end up being to go to Windows, especially when you find updates of software you already own don't work quite right on your "guest API" implementation.

Virtualization offers better compatibility -- it's the "real thing", after all -- and since third parties can't rely on it being present, any market that offers competition will still result in native software rather than a "use the Windows version". Plus, much less chance of a lawsuit from Microsoft.