What's wrong with Apple?

[sunking101]

They should stop forcing the yearly iOS update to coincide with the iPhone release. Put out a phone once a year, but release the software when it's ready and bug-free.

iOS 8 adds a few features we could've lived without for a few months, and releasing it full of bugs is bad for their reputation.

Exactly. Microsoft don't bring out a new version of Windows every 12 months.
It took a whole year for iOS7 to run without any major niggling faults, and then they released iOS8 which is even worse. The iPhone 4 and iOS6 was the last great effort from Apple when it comes to iPhones. Since then we've had lacklustre hardware and bug-ridden Android copycat software. Steve Jobs is missed just as much as we thought he would be and Apple need a maverick techhead dictator at the helm, not some corporate beancounters.

 

[C DM]

Exactly. Microsoft don't bring out a new version of Windows every 12 months.
It took a whole year for iOS7 to run without any major niggling faults, and then they released iOS8 which is even worse. The iPhone 4 and iOS6 was the last great effort from Apple when it comes to iPhones. Since then we've had lacklustre hardware and bug-ridden Android copycat software. Steve Jobs is missed just as much as we thought he would be and Apple need a maverick techhead dictator at the helm, not some corporate beancounters.

Pretty sure Microsoft is on more or less a yearly schedule these days as well.

 

[sunking101]

Pretty sure Microsoft is on more or less a yearly schedule these days as well.

Well, they added the start button but it wasn't anywhere like a whole new o/s. They refined what they already had...unlike Apple.

Does *anyone* here seriously crave the yearly iOS updates that Apple launch with every new iPhone? Would anyone not buy the latest hardware because it had the previous year's o/s on it? I very much doubt it. The old o/s on new hardware would run faster, smoother and give a real feeling of the phone being an 'upgrade'.

 

[I7guy]

Exactly. Microsoft don't bring out a new version of Windows every 12 months.
It took a whole year for iOS7 to run without any major niggling faults, and then they released iOS8 which is even worse. The iPhone 4 and iOS6 was the last great effort from Apple when it comes to iPhones. Since then we've had lacklustre hardware and bug-ridden Android copycat software. Steve Jobs is missed just as much as we thought he would be and Apple need a maverick techhead dictator at the helm, not some corporate beancounters.

Microsoft issues monthly updates to it's operating systems. And then rolls out service packs that can add new functionalities. Microsoft now mandates service packs be installed (8.1) to get future updates. Remember Vista, the first 64 bit mass-consumer operating system, the first release was a disaster. Windows 7 rectified it. Windows 8 was a disaster as well. Windows 8.1 was much better. Of course you can judge the number of bugs in the O/S by the number of patches being released....most of these bugs are security related. But Windows being such a monolithic operating system also has arcane fixes not security related that most users don't understand what is really being fixed.

While it's your opinion ios 8 and iphone 6 were lackluster, that over two months after release and tens of millions sold, it's still not easy to get your hands on this new model. Obviously the tens of millions of consumers of these products don't share your feelings about lackluster hardware and bug-ridden android copycat software.

I really like 8.1.1 it's the most stable software I've seen since I started with apple with my ipad 2. One jetsam event in my log since installation of 8.1.1 on November 6 (or thereabouts).

 

[GooberMan]

Their stock price is kicking ass. That's all that matters right? You know, public perception?

 

[C DM]

Well, they added the start button but it wasn't anywhere like a whole new o/s. They refined what they already had...unlike Apple.

Does *anyone* here seriously crave the yearly iOS updates that Apple launch with every new iPhone? Would anyone not buy the latest hardware because it had the previous year's o/s on it? I very much doubt it. The old o/s on new hardware would run faster, smoother and give a real feeling of the phone being an 'upgrade'.

Yes most typical users want something new just for the sake of new. Even the less typical users who are here have a lot in their ranks that also want that. It might not be better or perhaps even smarter but that's the reality.

 

[sunking101]

Their stock price is kicking ass. That's all that matters right? You know, public perception?

A lot of it is due to fashion and how iPhones are perceived by the general public, ie that they're the best. Most people don't look into specs, they just 'assume' that Apple are the best and who cares, they're the trendy purchase. That kind of customer is fickle and quickly moves onto the newest 'best' thing. Once Apple loses its 'must have' brand appeal, it's hard to get it back. Lacklustre hardware and buggy software will keep their place at the head of the foodchain for only so long...
I bought into Apple because they made great products. Now? Not so much, certainly not on the iPhone side. That device is living on former glories in my opinion. I've been waiting for another killer iPhone since the iPhone 4 and it hasn't happened. Apple dripfeed the hardware upgrades way too slowly for my liking. More RAM and a polished iOS8, along with the bigger screen, would have brought them right back into the mix again. Would anyone look at HTC or LG if they released a phone with specs similar to the iPhone 6? No. It would be laughed out of town. People love it because it's made by Apple and because it runs iOS. If the form shown by iOS7 and now iOS8 becomes the norm, then the public's love of iOS is going to disappear pretty sharpish. Then what's left? Nokia rested on their laurels for far too long and look what happened to them, never mind that this kind of thing has happened to Apple before Jobs came back.

Anyway, it's hard to voice these kind of opinions to dyed in the wool (*no iSheep gag there I promise) Apple fans.

 

[GooberMan]

A lot of it is due to fashion and how iPhones are perceived by the general public, ie that they're the best. Most people don't look into specs, they just 'assume' that Apple are the best and who cares, they're the trendy purchase. That kind of customer is fickle and quickly moves onto the newest 'best' thing. Once Apple loses its 'must have' brand appeal, it's hard to get it back. Lacklustre hardware and buggy software will keep their place at the head of the foodchain for only so long...
I bought into Apple because they made great products. Now? Not so much, certainly not on the iPhone side. That device is living on former glories in my opinion. I've been waiting for another killer iPhone since the iPhone 4 and it hasn't happened. Apple dripfeed the hardware upgrades way too slowly for my liking. More RAM and a polished iOS8, along with the bigger screen, would have brought them right back into the mix again. Would anyone look at HTC or LG if they released a phone with specs similar to the iPhone 6? No. It would be laughed out of town. People love it because it's made by Apple and because it runs iOS. If the form shown by iOS7 and now iOS8 becomes the norm, then the public's love of iOS is going to disappear pretty sharpish. Then what's left? Nokia rested on their laurels for far too long and look what happened to them, never mind that this kind of thing has happened to Apple before Jobs came back.

Anyway, it's hard to voice these kind of opinions to dyed in the wool (*no iSheep gag there I promise) Apple fans.

Third party apps help Apple's cause too. To what extent I can say for sure, but my guess is that aspect of it is a big part of the equation. It's not just the Apple fans that are on board, but the developers as well, because of those many fans.

I agree though, buggy operating systems will hurt them eventually if they don't clean up their act. Unfortunately their approach seems to be: release a new OS every year as a way to hype their products, even if it means the OS suffers because of it.

 

[I7guy]

A lot of it is due to fashion and how iPhones are perceived by the general public, ie that they're the best. Most people don't look into specs, they just 'assume' that Apple are the best and who cares, they're the trendy purchase. That kind of customer is fickle and quickly moves onto the newest 'best' thing. Once Apple loses its 'must have' brand appeal, it's hard to get it back. Lacklustre hardware and buggy software will keep their place at the head of the foodchain for only so long...
I bought into Apple because they made great products. Now? Not so much, certainly not on the iPhone side. That device is living on former glories in my opinion. I've been waiting for another killer iPhone since the iPhone 4 and it hasn't happened. Apple dripfeed the hardware upgrades way too slowly for my liking. More RAM and a polished iOS8, along with the bigger screen, would have brought them right back into the mix again. Would anyone look at HTC or LG if they released a phone with specs similar to the iPhone 6? No. It would be laughed out of town. People love it because it's made by Apple and because it runs iOS. If the form shown by iOS7 and now iOS8 becomes the norm, then the public's love of iOS is going to disappear pretty sharpish. Then what's left? Nokia rested on their laurels for far too long and look what happened to them, never mind that this kind of thing has happened to Apple before Jobs came back.

Anyway, it's hard to voice these kind of opinions to dyed in the wool (*no iSheep gag there I promise) Apple fans.

It's only hard to voice these opinions because people have differing opinions. I personally think i6 and i6+ along with IOS 8 have given the public what they want, as evidenced by the sales figures. And if it's your opinion that only "isheep" (sic) buy these products, so be it.

You're just waiting for Apple to fade into nothingness based on your current perceptions of the company. In the realm of nothing is impossible I guess it could happen.

 

[Sydde]

A lot of it is due to fashion and how iPhones are perceived by the general public, ie that they're the best.

Curiously, Apple have been able to get away with crazy design flaws and convince people they are wonderful. The iPod was kind of a Mac niche product, then they made it in a USB version with that new-at-the-time 30-pin connector, making it much more PC-accessible and accessory compatible. I have one of the 2nd-gen FW iPods, and I had one of the early 30-pin FW/USB iPods, and the basic front-panel design of the FW iPod was so much nicer, with the ring buttons that clicked; the row of buttons at the top and the non-clicking center button was more of a pain to use, especially if you were not looking at the thing, but somehow that poor design became wildly popular, even before iTunes-for-Windows. It got better, but I still have a hard time understanding how that thing caught on.

 

[Zxxv]

Microsoft issues monthly updates to it's operating systems. And then rolls out service packs that can add new functionalities. Microsoft now mandates service packs be installed (8.1) to get future updates. Remember Vista, the first 64 bit mass-consumer operating system, the first release was a disaster. Windows 7 rectified it. Windows 8 was a disaster as well. Windows 8.1 was much better. Of course you can judge the number of bugs in the O/S by the number of patches being released....most of these bugs are security related. But Windows being such a monolithic operating system also has arcane fixes not security related that most users don't understand what is really being fixed.

While it's your opinion ios 8 and iphone 6 were lackluster, that over two months after release and tens of millions sold, it's still not easy to get your hands on this new model. Obviously the tens of millions of consumers of these products don't share your feelings about lackluster hardware and bug-ridden android copycat software.

I really like 8.1.1 it's the most stable software I've seen since I started with apple with my ipad 2. One jetsam event in my log since installation of 8.1.1 on November 6 (or thereabouts).

I have 17 jetsam events in my log. Tell me what my iPhone is meant to be crashing like... oh don't bother please I don't want to know as as far as I'm aware its running fine.

 

[I7guy]

I have 17 jetsam events in my log. Tell me what my iPhone is meant to be crashing like... oh don't bother please I don't want to know as as far as I'm aware its running fine.

Seventeen since release of IOS 8.1.1? That is less than one a day. It seems this is either a new event or one that is now being reported on, but not in reported in IOS 7.

 

[Zxxv]

Seventeen since release of IOS 8.1.1? That is less than one a day. It seems this is either a new event or one that is now being reported on, but not in reported in IOS 7.

I only updated the other day, maybe two or three days ago. My iPhone 6 works fine. Like I say what ever problem its meant to be showing I haven't noticed. Nothing crashes, nothing chugs, as far as I'm aware its ok. Thats why I said please dont tell me. If it breaks i'll take it in, till then I'll keep enjoying the experience.

 

[I7guy]

I only updated the other day, maybe two or three days ago. My iPhone 6 works fine. Like I say what ever problem its meant to be showing I haven't noticed. Nothing crashes, nothing chugs, as far as I'm aware its ok. Thats why I said please dont tell me. If it breaks i'll take it in, till then I'll keep enjoying the experience.

Too funny! If it ain't broke don't fix it!

 

[Foss]

Can you explain to me what that pc has to do with mine?

Is comparing list price for new to list price for new not a fair comparison? Guess not.

 

[BigInDallas]

Is comparing list price for new to list price for new not a fair comparison? Guess not.

Yes that is a fair comparison. But it has nothing to do with my PC. compare mine to a macbook retina 2 years ago with the same stats and lets see the prices then

 

[Benguitar]

Technology is great when it works.

 

[grahamperrin]

Detraction from the Apple brand, and more

… Once Apple loses its 'must have' brand appeal, it's hard to get it back.

It seems that Apple has already lost much of its appeal. In 2013, a research director with the Gartner Technology and Service Provider Research group reported:

"… Despite Apple’s rank as the #1 brand WW by Interbrand, the NPS score for the company is weak (-3% NPS score). Nearly 40% of consumers would not recommend the Apple brand. …"​

In 2006 the NPS for Apple was 66%.

Yes most typical users want something new just for the sake of new. …

I'm not sure about 'most', but the cravings for novelty – with not enough regard for quality – is not healthy if Apple tries to satisfy those cravings.

Curiously, Apple have been able to get away with crazy design flaws and convince people they are wonderful. …

Yeah. The circular mouse for the original iMac.

Lacklustre hardware and buggy software will keep their place at the head of the foodchain for only so long...
I bought into Apple because they made great products. Now? Not so much …

I don't have a new Mac Pro, but I do love its design.

OS X Yosemite has some awful design problems.

… I personally think i6 and i6+ along with IOS 8 have given the public what they want, as evidenced by the sales figures. …

Their stock price is kicking ass. That's all that matters right? You know, public perception?

Wrong.

Every time someone gushes about numbers, about market share, about profitability or whatever – in response to a complaint about degradation of software – there's another silent but sure swing of the sledgehammer at a pillar of something that Tim Cook reportedly holds dear.

 

[iolinux333]

Nokia - innovated amazing stuff. owned the market. no one could have ever imagined them going under. couldn't come up with the next big thing. dead

Blackberry - innovated amazing stuff. owned the market. no one could have ever imagined them going under. couldn't come up with the next big thing. living dead.

Motorola - innovated amazing stuff. owned the market. no one could have ever imagined them going under. couldn't come up with the next big thing. dead

Apple - innovated amazing stuff. owned the market. no one could have ever imagined them going under. has come up with aWatch. Next big thing or dead?

Google - innovating amazing stuff. i think we all wish they were dead

 

[Winona Northdakota]

What's wrong with Apple?

Nokia - innovated amazing stuff. owned the market. no one could have ever imagined them going under. couldn't come up with the next big thing. dead



Blackberry - innovated amazing stuff. owned the market. no one could have ever imagined them going under. couldn't come up with the next big thing. living dead.



Motorola - innovated amazing stuff. owned the market. no one could have ever imagined them going under. couldn't come up with the next big thing. dead



Apple - innovated amazing stuff. owned the market. no one could have ever imagined them going under. has come up with aWatch. Next big thing or dead?



Google - innovating amazing stuff. i think we all wish they were dead

And Samsung just keeps stating that they are "the next big thing", regardless. Doesn't make it true at all.

 

[afsnyder]

I've been an Apple user since the first iPhone was released (I was so impressed with the iPhone that I bought one as soon as they became available here in Japan, after I had already purchased an iPod touch, iMac, and an AEBS). It used to be that I would recommend Apple wholeheartedly to my friends and family, because everything just worked. I had an epiphany this morning, as I again waited for my iPhone to connect to my iMac's shared iTunes Library (it never did): things haven't "just worked" in years!

I haven't been able to view my iMac's shared iTunes Library on my iOS devices in at least a year. My iMac has always run the latest version OS X and the latest iTunes, and is routed through an AirPort Extreme Base Station (the dual channel 802.11n version) so I'm 100% Apple here, computers, software and network.

I haven't been able to get text shortcuts to reliably sync between devices for about a year. New rMBP - syncs. New rMini - doesn't sync. New iMac - doesn't sync. New iPhone 6 - doesn't sync. Old MBA - doesn't sync. Kind of ridiculous, really.

Speaking of text shortcuts, make sure not to trigger them in mobile Safari, in webforms. Instant lock-up and crash. I've reported this issue to Apple more than once, since iOS8 Beta 1 was released, but the problem persists, even in 8.1 Beta 2.

These things, combined with the random lock-ups, freezes and crashes (again, on top-of-line, new devices) are making me kind of hate Apple. I love the design, but the reliability of their software has really gone to hell in the past few years.

/ rant

Maybe, just maybe... they don't really feel that keyboard shortcuts is much of a priority for their development team.

 

[iolinux333]

And Samsung just keeps stating that they are "the next big thing", regardless. Doesn't make it true at all.

Good point. I wonder if all the future holds is cheap Chinese generic display/phones, total commodity items, running some kind of open source like CM, for $10-20 at the checkout isle display, like pocket calculators are now. And everyone else leaving the market because there was no point any more.

 

[I7guy]

It seems that Apple has already lost much of its appeal. In 2013, a research director with the Gartner Technology and Service Provider Research group reported:

"… Despite Apple’s rank as the #1 brand WW by Interbrand, the NPS score for the company is weak (-3% NPS score). Nearly 40% of consumers would not recommend the Apple brand. …"​

In 2006 the NPS for Apple was 66%.



I'm not sure about 'most', but the cravings for novelty – with not enough regard for quality – is not healthy if Apple tries to satisfy those cravings.



Yeah. The circular mouse for the original iMac.



I don't have a new Mac Pro, but I do love its design.

OS X Yosemite has some awful design problems.





Wrong.

Every time someone gushes about numbers, about market share, about profitability or whatever – in response to a complaint about degradation of software – there's another silent but sure swing of the sledgehammer at a pillar of something that Tim Cook reportedly holds dear.

There sure does seem to be a disparity between the NPS score and the value of the company. The highest NPS score does nothing to a company whose stock value is in the toilet.

 

[Winona Northdakota]

What's wrong with Apple?

Good point. I wonder if all the future holds is cheap Chinese generic display/phones, total commodity items, running some kind of open source like CM, for $10-20 at the checkout isle display, like pocket calculators are now. And everyone else leaving the market because there was no point any more.

Isn't Android OS some kind of open source? Aren't there a plethora of cheap generic devices running Android OS? Looks like the majority go with Open Handset Alliance devices just to get Google's walled in garden.

 

[iolinux333]

Isn't Android OS some kind of open source? Aren't there a plethora of cheap generic devices running Android OS? Looks like the majority go with Open Handset Alliance devices just to get Google's walled in garden.

What if there was an open source garden monitored by the community? Most major Linux distros are exactly that. I think that is what Mozilla phone is trying to do. Ubuntu phone too.