Where do you get your movies and TV shows?

[laurim]

First, thanks for the contribution. I really do love this discussion (not joking, trolling, etc). I think you're on point with that. The experience is definitely the 'product' we should be paying for. Unfortunately there is no practical way of quantifying experience. We don't pay for it that way. Is one $12 novel the same experience as ten music singles? I'm not convinced that 'experience' is the right way to look at this issue, from a legal or economic perspective.

To your point on restrictions, let's separate the different industries (music, movies, print) because those industries entered the digital world at different times and in very different ways.

There is a lesson to be learned from the music industry. They entered digital first with CDs, without even realizing what they were getting into. CDs contained unrestricted and extremely high quality music files. For a time, copying CDs was expensive (low price burners didn't come out for a while), and distribution of illegal copies wasn't feasible (low internet speeds, many people without internet at home). Plus, during this time the industry was involved in some shady business practices (price fixing, etc). They didn't have the foresight and understand of the impact of CD burners, high-speed internet, and MP3 players. Can't really blame them though; they were the first to dive into digital. They sued consumers; consumers backlashed; there was a defacto negotiation between consumers and the music industry in the courts and in public opinion; and we ended up with streaming where the artists make nearly nothing, and the consumers are upset about restrictions. It's a lose-lose.

Movie industry largely followed suit to the music industry; except they saw what was happening to music and put in some restrictions on their digital content. It helped a bit; but not enough. They largely followed the same path, and ended up with slightly better business models in Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, etc. I haven't heard about movie studios complaining about streaming as much as musicians; so I assume the deal they struck is simply better.

There is also a lesson from the print industry. The print industry (books, magazines, etc) has largely been on the side-lines for this whole mess. They resisted jumping into digital for a really long time. They finally jumped with the Amazon Kindle and Apple iPad; and they are doing pretty good. Piracy is low, relative to music and movies. The reason I think is because the print industry had time to observe music and movies and they learned the lesson: when you jump into digital, you have to do it in a very controlled and consumer-friendly manner. It has to be so much easier to buy a book legally that people won't bother pirating. Amazon did this perfectly: I can read the first chapter for free (like in a book store or library), I can buy it for a reasonable price with one click, I can consume public domain stuff for free from the same interface, and I can use it to access what is in my public library. Apple does it very well too.

Apple is probably responsible for preventing the most music and movie piracy through their iTunes store. But for their consumer-friendly and controlled distribution model, more people would have pirated.

So to your point, the restrictions are needed to maintain that control; but they shouldn't be so restrictive as to be unfriendly towards consumers. In this digital world, we have to look at piracy as competition to beat. Take apps for example: I have thought about pirating an app for my iPhone, but then I just clicked the buy button because it was the path of least resistance: $3 of resistance vs my time and effort to jailbreak and find pirated material). Back in 2002 with music, the equation was different: $15 for a CD containing the songs I want plus time ripping it (assuming the songs I want are available on one CD) vs. my time to find the pirated material.

Call me cynical, but I think fewer people pirate printed materials because fewer people read. Reading takes way more effort than passively watching tv or movies. As for the "read a few pages first" comment, that's what the movie previews are for. I've used them in iTunes and can usually tell right away if I'll probably enjoy the movie. All those things you list for print are available for media. You can go to the library and check out movies. You can go on Crackle or Hulu and watch movies with some commercials to pay for that access. Or you can delay gratification and wait until it's on antenna tv. It's not like NO ONE can watch a movie without paying for it first. You just can't always get it when you want it, how you want it. You know, like everyone did before the internet and had no problem with it.

 

[oneMadRssn]

Call me cynical, but I think fewer people pirate printed materials because fewer people read. Reading takes way more effort than passively watching tv or movies. As for the "read a few pages first" comment, that's what the movie previews are for. I've used them in iTunes and can usually tell right away if I'll probably enjoy the movie. All those things you list for print are available for media. You can go to the library and check out movies. You can go on Crackle or Hulu and watch movies with some commercials to pay for that access. Or you can delay gratification and wait until it's on antenna tv. It's not like NO ONE can watch a movie without paying for it first. You just can't always get it when you want it, how you want it. You know, like everyone did before the internet and had no problem with it.

Right. But can I "take out a library movie" from iTunes like I can with a book on my Kindle? You hit the nail on the head with the "get it when you want it, how you want it" comment. That is what the internet and digital distribution allows. That is what consumers expect and demand now; and it's up to the industries to meet those demands. I believe consumers will pay a fair price for it, if they can have it the way they want it. If piracy serves it up the way they want it, and legit methods present too many obstacles or inconveniences, then they will chose the path of least resistance.

Before the internet is gone. It will never be back. Before GE invented an in-home electric refrigerator that lower-middle class families could afford, people simple made do without being able to stock lots of frozen food. Try convincing an American today that they can't buy a 10-pound box of frozen pizza at Costco. Technology changes our lives.

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Also, I agree that fewer people read; but even proportional to size of industry - there is less piracy in print than in music or movies. Unlike with music or movies, there was no "digital" book on a physical medium (like CD or DVD). Unlike music or movies, the moment books went digital there were great distribution mechanisms up and running (iBooks, Amazon).

 

[taptic]

Netflix ftw.

 

[twobelowpar]

For those who rip their BR discs and stream them via ATV, how much did it cost to get a burner drive? Is it worth the time, the drive, and the storage to do that rather than looking for sales on iTunes and re-purchasing titles you already own and use via cloud?

 

[laurim]

Right. But can I "take out a library movie" from iTunes like I can with a book on my Kindle? You hit the nail on the head with the "get it when you want it, how you want it" comment. That is what the internet and digital distribution allows. That is what consumers expect and demand now; and it's up to the industries to meet those demands. I believe consumers will pay a fair price for it, if they can have it the way they want it. If piracy serves it up the way they want it, and legit methods present too many obstacles or inconveniences, then they will chose the path of least resistance.

Before the internet is gone. It will never be back. Before GE invented an in-home electric refrigerator that lower-middle class families could afford, people simple made do without being able to stock lots of frozen food. Try convincing an American today that they can't buy a 10-pound box of frozen pizza at Costco. Technology changes our lives.

----------

Also, I agree that fewer people read; but even proportional to size of industry - there is less piracy in print than in music or movies. Unlike with music or movies, there was no "digital" book on a physical medium (like CD or DVD). Unlike music or movies, the moment books went digital there were great distribution mechanisms up and running (iBooks, Amazon).

That Kindle lending library for Prime members is very specific to Amazon marketing and considering you have to pay for Prime and probably will pay a lot in the near future, it's NOT free. Better to compare it to Netflix.

I don't know why anyone would think watching a movie for $4.99 isn't a fair price to watch a popular movie a few months after it's released. How cheap does a blockbuster movie need to be? Gravity took over four years, hundreds of people to make and new technologies created. People need to get a grip on their expectations. I think all that is worth more than a Big Mac. For all this talk, the simplest explanation is the best. People steal because they can get away with it. And being able to easily steal movies makes movies in general less valuable.

 

[SpyderBite]

Where do you get your movies and TV shows?

I prefer to wait for movies/tv to become available on demand via Hulu, Netflix, Vudu, Amazon, etc. Then if it is a movie I want to keep it, I'll buy the digital copy.

If I just want to watch it, I'll wait until it is free on one of the services or rent it if I am anxious to see it.

Still cheaper than a theater where there is no beer or a pause button.

Perhaps I'm more patient than most people. I don't have "give it to me NOW" syndrome. ^^

 

[oneMadRssn]

That Kindle lending library for Prime members is very specific to Amazon marketing and considering you have to pay for Prime and probably will pay a lot in the near future, it's NOT free. Better to compare it to Netflix.

I don't know why anyone would think watching a movie for $4.99 isn't a fair price to watch a popular movie a few months after it's released. How cheap does a blockbuster movie need to be? Gravity took over four years, hundreds of people to make and new technologies created. People need to get a grip on their expectations. I think all that is worth more than a Big Mac. For all this talk, the simplest explanation is the best. People steal because they can get away with it. And being able to easily steal movies makes movies in general less valuable.

I'm not talking about Amazon Prime. I mean signing in with my public library card number and pin on my Kindle and borrowing books from the library. See here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId=200747550

As for the movies for $4.99, I totally agree. That's a great price, and a no brainer. $5 for a legit quality movie, stored in Apple's cloud, versus a rip of questionable quality and origin. I'll take the $5 option any day.

If only there was a way to watch Red Sox games on iTunes....

 

[Frankied22]

Where are iTunes movies $4.99? I prefer to buy movies I want to keep and rewatch. $5 is a lot to just rent a movie. If you're going to rent just go to RedBox.

 

[laurim]

Where are iTunes movies $4.99? I prefer to buy movies I want to keep and rewatch. $5 is a lot to just rent a movie. If you're going to rent just go to RedBox.

Yeah, you don't OWN a recent movie for $5.99 but they often have sales and bundles so you could get close. Rental prices depend on the movie and how long it's been available for rent. Pre-theater or new popular releases are often ~$5.99 then the price moves downward as demand goes down. You have to be pretty poor to not be able to afford that. People spend about that for a coffee at Starbucks and it doesn't last two hours.

As for Redbox. I'll be damned if I have to drive in the snow to rent a dvd that someone has probably put their greasy fingerprints on or cracked, making it skip or quit at a good part of the movie and then schlep it back the next day. Bad flashbacks to the Blockbuster/Netflix days just to save a buck. NO THANKS.

I buy some movies on BluRay but they have to be really good and usually need to be 3D to make it worth it. I own 23 right now. Most recently Gravity. I'm not in the business of storing discs on a large scale, though. I rarely re-watch the discs I have now so renting on iTunes when it first comes out, maybe watching it again later on Netflix and finally watching it on cable when nothing else is on is fine for me for the vast majority of movies. Once I know the ending, it loses a lot of interest for me.

 

[Tanax]

The two major problems I find with services like Netflix and alike are:

1. There simply isn't as much content as one would like. There are often things we want to watch that are not available. On top of that, certain content that is available in US is not available in EU.

2. Any content can disappear at any time due to licensing for that content ended.

If I have Netflix, I want to be able to watch any movie, recently released or old school movies, at any time and I don't want to have to worry that it might disappear any day.

 

[laurim]

The two major problems I find with services like Netflix and alike are:

1. There simply isn't as much content as one would like. There are often things we want to watch that are not available. On top of that, certain content that is available in US is not available in EU.

2. Any content can disappear at any time due to licensing for that content ended.

If I have Netflix, I want to be able to watch any movie, recently released or old school movies, at any time and I don't want to have to worry that it might disappear any day.

well sure, we'd all like to see every movie we want for only $8 per month. Highly unlikely to happen. Netflix sure tries to expand their offerings but it's a free market out there. The EU situation will get better.

 

[northy124]

Do most of you buy them through iTunes/Google Play/Amazon, or do you buy blu-rays? Or do you get them from other sources?

I steam on Netflix and buy Blu-ray discs from Amazon DE, FR or US.

 

[StinDaWg]

So because YOU don't like the terms the content providers have set for their content, you justify stealing it?

I think BMW's are over priced and I don't like that I have to go to the store to pick it out and deal with a salesman. I'm just going to steal one

Irregardless of price, torrents are a better experience than any other available service. I can get any tv show downloaded to my computer within 5 minutes of air, commercial free with no DRM. I can play it on any device I want without restrictions. I'm only limited by hard drive space and the speed of my home internet. Itunes won't even let you download a show as it airs, you have to wait 6-24 hours after it airs to even be able to purchase it. That's ludicrous. Like I said before, I have roommates and they subscribe to cable, but I don't use it, ever, except occasionally for a live sporting event. Why go through the hassle of using a DVR to set everything up, hope that the padding is right or the program before doesn't overrun into yours, causing you to miss the beginning or end of the show (CBS Sunday nights is notorious for this because of football overrun) and have to fast forward through all the commercials. I simply tell my torrent client what shows to download and it does everything for me in the background, ready to watch whenever I want. The future of television is true on demand, not the half ass job the tv providers are giving you. I can't believe they actually have to galls to disable FF on some on demand shows. Not to mention their DVRs are old, outdated, buggy, and slow. Only 20 hours of HD recording space? Give me a break. It's just a terrible experience all around.

Blu-rays are usually leaked online 3-6 weeks before they are available to purchase. The Hunger Games:Catching Fire blu-ray was released in stores to purchase today, it leaked online 6 weeks ago. If it's there, why should I wait? Either keep a tighter ship at the factories or make the movies available to purchase earlier. You might think that it's "immoral", but to me I'm just pushing a button on the computer (sometimes not even doing that as it's automated). Do I personally feel bad? No. Does it keep me awake at night? No. I've purchased tons of movies/music over the years (sometimes multiple times from VHS to DVD to Blu-ray) and also paid for cable on a regular basis. Once the older crowd dies off, cable as we know it will be dead. The majority of people under 30 either download/stream/Netflix/Hulu or whatever. We are in a transitional period with video that we were a decade ago with music and Napster. Piracy will eventually force the entertainment industry to change/relax it's polices like it did with music, and we will all be better off for it.

Lastly, this is always a funny argument to me, that piracy=stealing. It's not, and has been proven in court. It's copyright infringement, not theft. It also helps HBO sell a ton more copies of Game of Thrones by word of mouth. Studies have shown that people who pirate content actually spend more money on legitimate purchases than non-piraters do. Surprised? You shouldn't be. It's called "try before you buy" and if they aren't buying, they're at least recommending a show/movie to someone else who might not have purchased the product before.

Your BMW reference is a perfect example of why you are wrong with your analogy...

 

[laurim]

Irregardless of price, torrents are a better experience than any other available service. I can get any tv show downloaded to my computer within 5 minutes of air, commercial free with no DRM. I can play it on any device I want without restrictions. I'm only limited by hard drive space and the speed of my home internet. Itunes won't even let you download a show as it airs, you have to wait 6-24 hours after it airs to even be able to purchase it. That's ludicrous. Like I said before, I have roommates and they subscribe to cable, but I don't use it, ever, except occasionally for a live sporting event. Why go through the hassle of using a DVR to set everything up, hope that the padding is right or the program before doesn't overrun into yours, causing you to miss the beginning or end of the show (CBS Sunday nights is notorious for this because of football overrun) and have to fast forward through all the commercials. I simply tell my torrent client what shows to download and it does everything for me in the background, ready to watch whenever I want. The future of television is true on demand, not the half ass job the tv providers are giving you. I can't believe they actually have to galls to disable FF on some on demand shows. Not to mention their DVRs are old, outdated, buggy, and slow. Only 20 hours of HD recording space? Give me a break. It's just a terrible experience all around.

Blu-rays are usually leaked online 3-6 weeks before they are available to purchase. The Hunger Games:Catching Fire blu-ray was released in stores to purchase today, it leaked online 6 weeks ago. If it's there, why should I wait? Either keep a tighter ship at the factories or make the movies available to purchase earlier. You might think that it's "immoral", but to me I'm just pushing a button on the computer (sometimes not even doing that as it's automated). Do I personally feel bad? No. Does it keep me awake at night? No. I've purchased tons of movies/music over the years (sometimes multiple times from VHS to DVD to Blu-ray) and also paid for cable on a regular basis. Once the older crowd dies off, cable as we know it will be dead. The majority of people under 30 either download/stream/Netflix/Hulu or whatever. We are in a transitional period with video that we were a decade ago with music and Napster. Piracy will eventually force the entertainment industry to change/relax it's polices like it did with music, and we will all be better off for it.

Lastly, this is always a funny argument to me, that piracy=stealing. It's not, and has been proven in court. It's copyright infringement, not theft. It also helps HBO sell a ton more copies of Game of Thrones by word of mouth. Studies have shown that people who pirate content actually spend more money on legitimate purchases than non-piraters do. Surprised? You shouldn't be. It's called "try before you buy" and if they aren't buying, they're at least recommending a show/movie to someone else who might not have purchased the product before.

Your BMW reference is a perfect example of why you are wrong with your analogy...

Image

Here's the basic test of whether what you are doing is wrong (for the morally impaired like you):

If everyone pirates, will movies and tv shows still be made? Why do YOU get to watch things for free but I'M paying for them to be made?

Your analogy is BS. As I said above, you aren't stealing a physical thing. You are stealing the experience, a service. It's more like someone doing work on your home and then you don't pay them for their work. They worked hard for NOTHING but you get EVERYTHING.

P.S. "Irregardless" isn't a word

 

[gooser]

stindawg, i'll agree with you on one thing. cbs on sunday nights is an awful experience. i am afraid that that's where the agreement ends.

 

[Cheffy Dave]

I get all of my entertainment content from iTunes. I haven't purchased a DVD in years and have never used Blu-ray.

Well, you are missing perfection, movies in Blu Ray are better than the Theater

 

[charlien]

I simply tell my torrent client what shows to download and it does everything for me in the background, ready to watch whenever I want.

Can you share what software you use?

 

[StinDaWg]

Your analogy is BS. As I said above, you aren't stealing a physical thing. You are stealing the experience, a service. It's more like someone doing work on your home and then you don't pay them for their work. They worked hard for NOTHING but you get EVERYTHING.

No matter how many times you try to equate it to stealing, it's not in the eyes of the law. Copyright infringement, nothing more, nothing less. 99% of what I watch I wouldn't have bought in the first place. Hollywood will claim every download is a lost sale, but everyone knows that's not true. This doesn't even get into the fact that tons of shows are not available to watch in countries outside the U.S., and if they ever do come to television over there it can be 6-12 months or even later. Should these people wait a year to watch Game of Thrones because of some artificial restriction put on their country?

You are really grasping at straws here. If I hire someone to come over and repair my house, and then tell them to leave without paying them they would have legal grounds to sue me for the money they were owed for the work they did. I never told the producers of Gravity that I was going to purchase their movie, no agreement was made for payment, and they never expected to be compensated for their work from me (personally).

If everyone pirates, will movies and tv shows still be made?

It's highly unlikely that every single person in the world will pirate everything, but for the sake of discussion let's say they did. Would tv and movies still be made? Yes, but the distribution would need to change. Prices would need to come down and access to buy/stream videos easier and more convenient. No DRM. Maybe 500 million dollar movies wouldn't be made anymore, and actors wouldn't get paid 50+ million a film. Would that really be so bad?

Why do YOU get to watch things for free but I'M paying for them to be made?

Because I can? There's nothing stopping you from doing the same.

P.S. "Irregardless" isn't a word

lol, I'll just leave you with this...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless

Can you share what software you use?

uTorrent for torrents, SABnzbd for Usenet.

 

[Otago Lad]

The only difference between my analogy and your analogy is that in mine the concert / movie is open air and then in theory has unlimited capacity, and in yours the concert / movie has limited seats / capacity. As I stated before, with the nature of digital downloads, capacity is practically infinite. When one sneaks into a movie and take a seat, they are taking a physical seat that could belong to a paying patron. When one downloads an illegal movie file, they are not depriving any paying patrons.

I'm not going to bother replying to all of your statements as they are all fundamentally flawed but I will to this one as it shows how wrong your thinking is - you are fixated on the "depriving a patron/user" idea rather than seeing this for what it is which is depriving the creator/copyright holder of revenue - that is theft. Just because no user is deprived doesn't mean you should get it for free - you getting it for free has deprived the artist of the value they ascribe to their work - again, theft.

You need to see this from the other side - if you want everything for free then there are emerging artists/film makers etc out there who will give their stuff away and you should simply watch/listen etc. to them - however if you want to listen to artists and watch movies etc. that cost money to produce and have asked users to pay for then you should pay and if you think that they are not of good enough quality or aren't worth the money then vote for change by simply not buying the product, don't steal it.

 

[torana355]

Can you share what software you use?

I dare say they use an RSS smart feed. This is built into most torrent clients.

 

[blanka]

The Piracy problem in the music Industry evaporates:
Spotify makes artists expect nothing more then 0.00001ct/track and the artists realise that the only way to earn a dime is to let piracy spread the word, then cash on live acts.
What was the band that followed the piracy statistics to conclude they had to do a big live tour in Chili because there were tons of fans?
Music is helped a lot as our digital expectations are about 44khz/16bit with a big amount of compression.
Live allows true spatial high def sound without any dynamic range/data compression and room for improvisation and reaction to the public. If the artist is smart, they sell a direct download from the concert you visited afterwards. You don't want to relive the show in Berlin if you are in Lyon, so big chance only the attendees buy the live shows and spreading over the net is not of their interest.


With movies it is a different story:
From best to worst experience:
- Empty theatre with 4K digital projector (almost never happens as it is a small step to closing the theatre)
- Pirated BR rip non YIFY
- The actual BR (4 weeks later at least, if you can find it)
- Going to the theatre
- Netflix
- iTunes
- YIFY rips
- DVD (it totally sucks to run 50i/60i interlaced crap conversions in low rez in 2014)

There is no way for the artist to deliver a nice experience in this industry.

 

[alent1234]

so you are saying that if i want to buy a blu ray, i won't be able to find it in a store?

what's wrong with itunes? i rent there once a month or so

 

[alent1234]

Here's the basic test of whether what you are doing is wrong (for the morally impaired like you):

If everyone pirates, will movies and tv shows still be made? Why do YOU get to watch things for free but I'M paying for them to be made?

Your analogy is BS. As I said above, you aren't stealing a physical thing. You are stealing the experience, a service. It's more like someone doing work on your home and then you don't pay them for their work. They worked hard for NOTHING but you get EVERYTHING.

P.S. "Irregardless" isn't a word

he is kind of right
i have cable and i only watch news and sports on it. almost everything else i watch on demand via netflix, hbo go, or some other service.

my wife will watch a few reality shows and some old law and order episodes sometimes, but the commercials ruin the experience for almost every other show on cable and not worth the hassle

 

[oneMadRssn]

I'm not going to bother replying to all of your statements as they are all fundamentally flawed but I will to this one as it shows how wrong your thinking is - you are fixated on the "depriving a patron/user" idea rather than seeing this for what it is which is depriving the creator/copyright holder of revenue - that is theft. Just because no user is deprived doesn't mean you should get it for free - you getting it for free has deprived the artist of the value they ascribe to their work - again, theft.

You need to see this from the other side - if you want everything for free then there are emerging artists/film makers etc out there who will give their stuff away and you should simply watch/listen etc. to them - however if you want to listen to artists and watch movies etc. that cost money to produce and have asked users to pay for then you should pay and if you think that they are not of good enough quality or aren't worth the money then vote for change by simply not buying the product, don't steal it.

It's easy to claim they are fundamentally flawed, much harder to explain it.

First, please stop saying "you" all the time. I don't want everything for free, I don't support piracy, I do think the content is worth money. Accusations won't get us anywhere.

I do focus on the content creator being deprived, it's related to the user being deprived as well; they are intrinsically related. Why do you insist on it being theft? Where does that get us? Do you like the Spotify / Pandora business model where the artists make tiny fractions of a penny per listen? That's where the theft analogy has gotten us so far.

 

[Bozley0621]

For those who rip their BR discs and stream them via ATV, how much did it cost to get a burner drive? Is it worth the time, the drive, and the storage to do that rather than looking for sales on iTunes and re-purchasing titles you already own and use via cloud?

Everyone has their preferences for buying a hard copy of a movie or downloading it/storing it in the cloud.

I prefer to buy the disk, DVD or blu-ray depending on the "visual stunningness" of the movie. I don't want to rely on a movie needing to be authenticated in iTunes to watch it. I also am apprehensive about licenses being withdrawn and not being able to watch the movie at all.

I own the this Samsung Blu-ray drive http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-SE-50...&qid=1394468774&sr=8-2&keywords=bluray+burner.

It's plug and play and I have been very satisfied with it. I also upgraded to an iMac with a 3TB fusion drive for the purpose of storing my movies. An external hard drive would work just as nicely. I got the iMac for the storage and to have a bigger screen to work from - nothing to do with my movie collection.