All iPads Where is Apple's rebuttal to Microsoft Surface?

NotAdvisable

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 16, 2011
215
76
Perth, Australia
It's been nearly three years now since we saw Microsoft tease what they thought Surface could be. Now with the Surface Pro 3 they've been able to refine their product down to what is a pretty sweet rig.

My question is, where is Apple's rebuttal?
Imagine a "tablet" not much thicker or heavier than the iPad Air running a fully fledged version of OS X, with 8GB RAM and a powerful processor.

Honestly I can't see why this wouldn't be an area Apple would miss.
Thoughts?
 

haruhiko

macrumors 603
Sep 29, 2009
5,029
2,536
This is Apple's rebuttal:


http://go.bloomberg.com/tech-blog/2012-04-24-apple-ceo-you-can-merge-toaster-and-fridge-but-it-wont-be-pleasing/

Apr 24, 2012

On today’s earnings call, Apple CEO Tim Cook was asked by Sanford Bernstein analyst Toni Sacconaghi whether Apple would come up with some kind of tablet-laptop hybrid, so consumers would only need to carry one device.
Cook, who is known as an operations expert, didn’t miss a beat. Sounding downright Jobsian, he said:

“Anything can be forced to converge. But products are about trade-offs.”
Make too many, he suggested, and “you begin to make trade-offs where what you have left at the end of the day doesn’t please anyone.” He added:
“You can merge a toaster and a refrigerator, but that’s probably not going to be pleasing to anyone.”


He went on to provide data that suggests Apple is selling what the market wants. Through the end of 2011, the company had sold 67 million iPads in the two years it’s been on the market. It took more than 24 years to sell that many Macs, five years to sell that many iPods, and three years to sell that many iPhones. He suggested that many people will continue to want a laptop.
“There is a very good market for the MacBook Air, and we continue to innovate in that area,” Cook said.
 

Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
13,064
5,084
Go buy a Surface. Use it as your laptop and tablet for a few months. If you still think Apple needs to come out with a rebuttal, come back and tell us then.
 

NotAdvisable

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 16, 2011
215
76
Perth, Australia
This is Apple's rebuttal:

“Anything can be forced to converge. But products are about trade-offs.”
Make too many, he suggested, and “you begin to make trade-offs where what you have left at the end of the day doesn’t please anyone.” He added:
“You can merge a toaster and a refrigerator, but that’s probably not going to be pleasing to anyone.”
Although very true for the start of 2012, quite a lot has changed since then.
I'm just saying really, an Apple 'version' / rebuttal to the Surface would be an extremely powerful contender.

Go buy a Surface. Use it as your laptop and tablet for a few months. If you still think Apple needs to come out with a rebuttal, come back and tell us then.
I own a Surface alongside my mostly Apple collection, and although it's useful it still has it's downfalls.
Like I said above, Apple could build a very powerful contender.
 
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Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
13,064
5,084
Although very true for the start of 2012, quite a lot has changed since then.
I'm just saying really, an Apple 'version' / rebuttal to the Surface would be an extremely powerful contender.

I own a Surface alongside my mostly Apple collection, and although it's useful it still has it's downfalls.
Like I said above, Apple could build a very powerful contender.
It's easy to sit here and say, Apple could build something like this. It's another thing to actually build it, have it be useful and easy to use, and keep it priced reasonably.

Microsoft has been trying, and failing, to build tablet PCs since around 2000. Jobs came back to Apple, scrapped the Newton, and stayed away from portable computers smaller than laptops until he dropped the iPhone on the world. He even refused to build a netbook, remember?

I'm hoping Apple sticks with the way Jobs did things, and stay away from laptop-tablet fusion devices until they can build a device that is almost perfect on day one, and then drop that onto the world.
 

BenTrovato

macrumors 68030
Jun 29, 2012
2,849
1,871
Canada
What Microsoft is doing is smart. They're building new products and giving people who don't want Apple/Android products an alternative. In essence, they are staying relevant.

Asking where is Apple's rebuttal is sort of irrelevant. Microsoft is attempting to say that the Surface is better than a Macbook Air which it isn't even the same product. The worst thing Apple can do is say "Hey Microsoft, your hybrid tablet laptop that you say is better than our laptop, which everyone knows isn't, isn't better". That scale demonstration was a joke. If Microsoft hired me I'd revamp their delivery asap, it could have been a lot better than that scale bluff. I'm surprised a company of this magnitude can be so bad at showing off their products.
 

haruhiko

macrumors 603
Sep 29, 2009
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What Microsoft is doing is smart. They're building new products and giving people who don't want Apple/Android products an alternative. In essence, they are staying relevant.

Asking where is Apple's rebuttal is sort of irrelevant. Microsoft is attempting to say that the Surface is better than a Macbook Air which it isn't even the same product. The worst thing Apple can do is say "Hey Microsoft, your hybrid tablet laptop that you say is better than our laptop, which everyone knows isn't, isn't better". That scale demonstration was a joke. If Microsoft hired me I'd revamp their delivery asap, it could have been a lot better than that scale bluff. I'm surprised a company of this magnitude can be so bad at showing off their products.
It's being compared to the MacBook Air because it's expensive. If it's compared to an iPad then everybody will say that it's too expensive. Only by comparing it to a laptop the Surface looks cheaper.
 

HenryDJP

macrumors 603
Nov 25, 2012
5,087
829
United States
The Surface Pro 3 just came out yesterday. Why would there be rebuttal from any company that fast? Geesh. And since the Surface really hasn't been much of a seller outside of that niche customer I don't think Apple is clamoring over it to figure out how to make the next iPad or whatever.
 

Tsepz

macrumors 68040
Jan 24, 2013
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Johannesburg, South Africa
I'd love Apple to,atleast show some effort. I'm not expecting a SP3 type device, but at least give us an iPad made for power users with 3GB RAM, Split Screen multitasking, MicroSD support, MicroUSB 3.0 and a stylus.... Or atleast give us a decent pair of headphones with the iPad, at the very least.
 

s2mikey

macrumors 68020
Sep 23, 2013
2,462
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Upstate, NY
Once again I gotta say it. There is NO reason to try and merge laptops and tablets. They are and should be separate devices so they can excel at the tasks which each device are designed for. As it always happens when you try and do this, the flaws or shortcomings that the hybrid unit will exhibit will hurt the device on in both use cases. I realize that Microsoft has worked hard to make the surface a solid product and this newest one looks OK.

However, I still feel they'd have been better off just making a separate tablet and then a powerful laptop instead of desperately trying to make both in one chassis.

Apple doesn't need a rebuttal. They have iPads and they have their laptops. All of which are pretty solid products. Done.
 

maflynn

Moderator
Staff member
May 3, 2009
63,851
30,368
Boston
There is no rebuttal from apple because MS just released the product, apple has no time to respond.


Here's my $.02.
First the Surface Pro is aimed as a laptop replacement, the iPAd is not. Apple does not need to respond to the SP3 because its iPAd is not competing against it.

Secondly, apple very rarely "responds" to what a competitor does. It has its design philosophy and strategic direction, why change that because MS released something.
 

Ledgem

macrumors 68000
Jan 18, 2008
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Hawaii, USA
First the Surface Pro is aimed as a laptop replacement, the iPAd is not. Apple does not need to respond to the SP3 because its iPAd is not competing against it.
It's not just a matter of product categories. The iPad dominates the tablet market and is grappling with Android. Microsoft had no tablet to field and has been struggling to gain market share in the smartphone market, which is related to the tablet market. The Surface is Microsoft's rebuttal to the iPad, and possibly to declining PC sales overall.

If the Surface were doing extraordinarily well and Mac/iPad sales declined dramatically as a result then I would ask where Apple's response was. That the Surface is a conceptually neat device isn't a good reason for Apple to massively alter its products or product lineup.
 

maflynn

Moderator
Staff member
May 3, 2009
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Boston
The Surface is Microsoft's rebuttal to the iPad, and possibly to declining PC sales overall.
Agreed, MS basically had no choice at the time (first gen of the surface) because there were no major alternatives to the iPad and to a lesser extent Android tablets. They also see the writing on the wall that consumers are no longer buying desktop/laptop computers every (or every other) year and instead are finding the tablet to be a good alternative.

If the Surface were doing extraordinarily well and Mac/iPad sales declined dramatically as a result then I would ask where Apple's response was. That the Surface is a conceptually neat device isn't a good reason for Apple to massively alter its products or product lineup.
I am a big fan of the SP3 and I'm tempted by it tbh, but I'll be honest here. I don't think its going to sell "extraordinarily well" I'm not sure we're ready to see a convergent device that is both a tablet and laptop. I think people who already own a surface or were planning on getting one will get it. MS may entice others as well but I don't think its going to be a break out hit.

I was looking for a refurb or used SP2 but now with the SP3, I may take the plunge but since I have a rMBP its hard to justify dropping over 1,300 (128gb + keyboard) for a laptop replacement that has less memory, storage and computing power then my rMBP. I've never let logic get in my way of purchasing before so I still may buy it :p
 

Kariya

macrumors 68000
Nov 3, 2010
1,818
10
Apple's rebuttal is an iPad with Office 365 and the BT keyboard. Or a MBA.

To me Surface is still a solution looking for a problem.
 

hologram

macrumors 6502
May 12, 2007
467
96
What makes you think Apple NEEDS to rebut every new device that comes out?
Isn't it enough that all the other manufacturers are trying to rebut Apple?
 

960design

macrumors 68030
Apr 17, 2012
2,820
832
Destin, FL
It's been nearly three years now since we saw Microsoft tease what they thought Surface could be. Now with the Surface Pro 3 they've been able to refine their product down to what is a pretty sweet rig.

My question is, where is Apple's rebuttal?
Imagine a "tablet" not much thicker or heavier than the iPad Air running a fully fledged version of OS X, with 8GB RAM and a powerful processor.

Honestly I can't see why this wouldn't be an area Apple would miss.
Thoughts?
I agree, mostly. Microsoft has stepped up its game; unfortunately it's still playing the wrong one. My company cannot afford to pay for subscription based software:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/business/compare-office-365-for-business-plans-FX102918419.aspx
Seriously $20/mon per license for 365 when Apple's Pages, Numbers, Keynote are now FREE, not to mention that Apple products can be used collaboratively in the cloud ( well I just mentioned it, sorry ).
Round numbers here: 10k user devices (laptops/desktops) * $20/month = 2.4 Million / year, yep MILLION in software every year AND we are planning on expanding to 40k user devices in the next year or so. We used to get Office for $25 / license and that would last us 3 years ( life of the device ).

We've looked seriously at Chromebooks, Ubuntu OS and MacOS. Guess which one everyone likes?

I've stopped using Adobe because of the subscription, just removed Photoshop CS6E from my desktop and laptop and replaced with Pixelmator and Sketch last month.

Windows8 is such a huge change we've had to create training to assist our users. While developing the training, we figured, why not just train them on something free instead, like Ubuntu or offer training on MacOS / iPad. Again, I bet you can guess which training was full and which was not.
 
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Saturn1217

macrumors 6502a
Apr 28, 2008
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232
I don't think Apple needs to respond by coming out with an OSX powered laptop-tablet hybrid. I think that would be a disaster. TBH while I'm impressed by the surface pro 3 I'm also 99% sure I would never buy it. I really like using a tablet and the sp3 seemed geared at people who don't like tablets but maybe acknowledge that the form factor could be useful in limited scenarios.

That being said there are areas where the iPad could be improved for productivity that don't ruin its utility as an amazing thin and light tablet. This is how I would like to see apple "respond"

Stylus support. Additional improvements to Bluetooth keyboard support. The ability even if via dongle to access files on an external USB drive. All of these are option additions that would be great for those who want to use the iPad productively but could be safely ignored by those who just want a consumption device.
 

SandboxGeneral

Moderator emeritus
Sep 8, 2010
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Detroit
Where is Apple's rebuttal to Microsoft Surface?
I don't know that Apple cares much to respond to the Surface. They have their product road maps and update, release them on their own timetable, generally, regardless of what other companies are doing.

Not only that, I'm seeing more reviews comparing the Surface to the MacBook Air than the iPad.
 

bluespark

macrumors 68000
Jul 11, 2009
1,851
1,992
Chicago
I don't think Apple needs to respond by coming out with an OSX powered laptop-tablet hybrid. I think that would be a disaster. TBH while I'm impressed by the surface pro 3 I'm also 99% sure I would never buy it. I really like using a tablet and the sp3 seemed geared at people who don't like tablets but maybe acknowledge that the form factor could be useful in limited scenarios.

That being said there are areas where the iPad could be improved for productivity that don't ruin its utility as an amazing thin and light tablet. This is how I would like to see apple "respond"

Stylus support. Additional improvements to Bluetooth keyboard support. The ability even if via dongle to access files on an external USB drive. All of these are option additions that would be great for those who want to use the iPad productively but could be safely ignored by those who just want a consumption device.
Great post. I see little legitimate need that is addressed by "convergence" but the iPad Should do a better job of addressing power users and users who need a tablet for notetaking, drawing, etc.
 

TWO2SEVEN

macrumors 68040
Jun 27, 2010
3,520
637
Plano, TX
At this point, I do not think the Surface requires a rebuttal from Apple. Of course, that is always subject to change if and/or when the Surface becomes a stronger competitor to the iPad.

Yet on Thursday Microsoft announced that it was taking a $900 million write-down to reflect unsold inventory of the Surface RT. That’s a stark comparison to Apple’s iPad, which continues to break record sales and has sold more than 100 million devices.
Source:
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/19/why-the-surface-rt-failed-and-the-ipad-did-not/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
 

Charliebird

macrumors 6502a
Mar 10, 2010
838
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The iPad Pro is sitting in a wooden box with the Apple TV, rack mountable Mac Pro, and the iWatch.