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Where do you suggest finding "real reviews"? I'm sure what you are saying is right about Amazon, and while I try to read tech site reviews to learn about features, not many professional reviews include long-term outlook.
^This. Often exactly the problem with so-called professional reviews. At least on Amazon, one can attempt to skim through the newest reviews to try to ascertain the more valuable in-depth reviewers who have tried to use the item most recently, and/or those reviewers who come back at a later date and add an edit with appended information on performance.
But it's always hard to get an accurate overview of what works and what doesn't in tech land, these days. :cool:

Its especially annoying when manufacturers sell directly, without offering any place for users to come back and comment on the product. This I think, is one reason why many companies do not sell immediately directly on Amazon (sometimes only releasing much later on after months have passed), and quite frankly is a pain in the backside, as it's also a lot easier to deal with Amazon ordering & returns, than it is to deal with each and every individual company's ordering and returns policies.
 
I heard a rummor that DATOptic will release a Thunderbolt 3 tower has 5x SATA (6Gb) tray-less bay JBoD, Two USB 3.1 host, and one eSATA (6Gb) host that support Port Mulitpier
Can wait to see that !
 
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^This. Often exactly the problem with so-called professional reviews. At least on Amazon, one can attempt to skim through the newest reviews to try to ascertain the more valuable in-depth reviewers who have tried to use the item most recently, and/or those reviewers who come back at a later date and add an edit with appended information on performance.
But it's always hard to get an accurate overview of what works and what doesn't in tech land, these days. :cool:

Its especially annoying when manufacturers sell directly, without offering any place for users to come back and comment on the product. This I think, is one reason why many companies do not sell immediately directly on Amazon (sometimes only releasing much later on after months have passed), and quite frankly is a pain in the backside, as it's also a lot easier to deal with Amazon ordering & returns, than it is to deal with each and every individual company's ordering and returns policies.

I too really appreciate Amazon/Newegg reviews where customers follow up with long-term owner experiences. I purchased my current TB2 dock based on several of those long-term followups.

I've personally had mixed luck buying products just from professional tech media reviews. For example, I purchased SSDs from two (one now defunct/merged) companies that got stellar tech media reviews (as such reviews made the outstanding performance + features/specs the primary considerations), but turned out to have terrible reliability problems (that User reviews documented and I didn't pay attention to.) Today, I find myself hesitant to purchase USB-C charging products (even those that are IF-certified) without extensive owner reviews, because some tech media reviews have given certain products great ratings only for independent reviewers to expose major functional/safety problems. So I find myself in a constant struggle when it comes to getting info & I'm always interested in learning where I can get more product ownership info!

I also really appreciate when a Manufacturer comments directly on negative reviews, attempts to address the issue, and then the customer follows up with a comment or edited review of the experience, as it reassures me in that Maker's commitment to their customers.

I may sound naive when I say this; but, beyond just the technical specifications, if I am using something correctly as-advertised, I want a product to work (that's why I originally started buying Macs!)
 
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- I've generally avoided Apple's own, as they tend to overcharge for most of their adapters/cables; except where their's is the cheapest or only one available.
- Of course there are some cheaper or more expensive examples of each of these, but generally these are good enough for rough price estimates.
And that's also the reason why you really can't compare it to the docks. These separate items you list are cheap and use cheap components such as Realtek NICs. If you look at the components OWC lists for their dock you can see that they are not using such components but the more expensive A-quality components. Theirs include an Intel NIC you'd also find in computers like a CAD workstation. You need to factor the (sometimes big) difference in quality of the components into the comparison as well.

With macOS there is yet another thing one needs to account for: drivers. With all those cheaper components you most of the time have to download a driver and install it. In some cases this is not an issue at all as the driver is easy to get and the quality is perfectly fine. That is not the case for some other pieces of hardware. The more expensive items use higher quality components that are supported by macOS out of the box which means you don't have to install a driver.

The other thing you are not considering is the pricing for Thunderbolt 3 hardware from Intel. The TB3 docks are priced much higher than the TB2 equivalents (about $100 in general). It seems far more likely that either Intel is asking more or that the TB3 technology in general (R&D, implementation, certification, etc.) has a higher price tag. Remember, this is technology capable of driving everything over 1 cable including charging up to 100W; there are a lot of regulations concerning power stuff so it wouldn't surprise me that it is actually this part that has driven up the price tag quite a lot. USB-C in general doesn't seem to be very cheap.

And lastly there simply is the factor "ease-of-use". People do want to pay for things like that and manufacturers know that.

If the sleeping issues are not at least partly a problem with the dock design, why did my first two have issues where as my third one handles external and computer sleeping flawlessly, and never randomly loses hard drive connections (including with the FW chain?)
If the issue is due to the dock design then why are there so many anti-hdd-sleep apps dated back prior to 2011 (aka the pre-Thunderbolt era)? If the issue were the dock then why does the sleep issues with external drives concern Windows, Linux AND macOS?

The problem here is that manufacturers started adding sleep options to the controllers of the external drives and these controllers have caused numerous issues with disks not waking, computers not waking, etc. WD has been very well known to have this issue as well as Toshiba. Google it and you'll find plenty of information on it.

Where do you suggest finding "real reviews"? I'm sure what you are saying is right about Amazon, and while I try to read tech site reviews to learn about features, not many professional reviews include long-term outlook.
Sites like Anandtech, Arstechnica, even 9to5mac to some extend. Anything but sites like The Verge, The Next Web, etc., basically any site that uses clickbait titles and writes articles that are no more than another copy of the manufacturers press release and specs sheet.

Or you could go old skool" buy it and use it instead of going through the entire internet to find every possible maybe-this-is-an-issue-or-I-am-just-being-picky thing there is. Warranty and quality has been better than in the past so I'd not be too worried about things like this. Long-term outlooks are non-existent because it doesn't make any sense to make those for most products (i.e. there are some for SSDs which only confirm the manufacturers calculations and many products are being replaced rather quickly by consumers (smartphones for one)).

I also really appreciate when a Manufacturer comments directly on negative reviews, attempts to address the issue, and then the customer follows up with a comment or edited review of the experience, as it reassures me in that Maker's commitment to their customers.
There has been some research into these kind of user reviews and it wasn't a very positive outcome. It basically is fraud on a very large scale (one good example of that would be the Dash app which, after being caught, was removed from Apples app stores; on a Dutch techsite this has also happened quite a few times). Companies go through great length to influence the outcome of the reviews by rewarding good ones, suing the negative reviews and even buying positive reviews from specialised companies.

When I see something like the above it actually raises a red flag. I only pick out small parts regarding things like someones workflow because it is very hard to fake those kind of things plus that's also the most meaningful of any review (how someone uses it). Sites like Anandtech, Arstechnica and 9to5mac (to name a few) show you how something can be used which most of the reviews do not.
 
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There has been some research into these kind of user reviews and it wasn't a very positive outcome. It basically is fraud on a very large scale (one good example of that would be the Dash app which, after being caught, was removed from Apples app stores; on a Dutch techsite this has also happened quite a few times). Companies go through great length to influence the outcome of the reviews by rewarding good ones, suing the negative reviews and even buying positive reviews from specialised companies.

When I see something like the above it actually raises a red flag. I only pick out small parts regarding things like someones workflow because it is very hard to fake those kind of things plus that's also the most meaningful of any review (how someone uses it). Sites like Anandtech, Arstechnica and 9to5mac (to name a few) show you how something can be used which most of the reviews do not.

I did not know this, but that's enough to make one rethink both User reviews and professional tech reviews!!! Yikes!

I've always used a review (and manufacturer response) like this to judge which companies care about their customers (and, to me, I took this example to mean the company cares a lot based on what the Reviewer and Maker said and the alleged exchange.) To be honest I never thought the company/companies may be suing or threatening to sue customers to force them to change their reviews, but you make a good point. :(
 
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I did not know this, but that's enough to make one rethink both User reviews and professional tech reviews!!! Yikes!

I've always used a review (and manufacturer response) like this to judge which companies care about their customers (and, to me, I took this example to mean the company cares a lot based on what the Reviewer and Maker said and the alleged exchange.) To be honest I never thought the company/companies may be suing or threatening to sue customers to force them to change their reviews, but you make a good point. :(
I think dyn is overstating this. Yes, obviously there are many payola reviews across platforms. Especially IMO, where the reviewer "got one for free for my honest opinion" and gives it 5/5 stars – complete BS, as that instantly instigates large amounts of bias into the honest opinion process.
But there are also large amounts of perfectly valid purchasers who offer valid info on whether the product worked for them, and how it worked over time, so I don't think we should tar everyone like this under the same brush. I personally review things from time to time, so know for sure that I'm not being biased, and know there must be several millions of others doing the same thing that are not biased either. Doesn't mean I value every review I read, either, as some are truly valueless.

Of course, as the saying goes "opinions are like arseholes: everyone's got one one", so one person's good is another's average is another's bad. And one has always to have some expectation that things may not work out, and/or read through several reviews, all with a critical mind, rather than taking everything at face value.

Pretty common-sensical.
____

Anyway can we stick to the "TB3 DOCKS FOR MBP 2016" subject of the thread, as this is somewhat of a massive tangent! ;)
 
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Not much else to talk about , everything seems to be delayed until Late April or whenever :p
 
I preordered the Caldigit TS 3 and got refunded today due to the delay. I did not ask for a refund. So I don't know when it will be available. I now bought the HP 65W TB3 dock instead...

Thank you again for pre-ordering CalDigit THUNDERBOLTTM STATION 3 (TS3). As the product has been delayed for while, we will be cancelling your order and issuing you a full refund, by company policy.
 
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I preordered the Caldigit TS 3 and got refunded today due to the delay. I did not ask for a refund. So I don't know when it will be available. I now bought the HP 65W TB3 dock instead...

verrryyyyy interesting. Don't want to speculate but I'm very curious as to whats going on with these docks!!! :mad:
 
Really want a dock to hurry up. Move my computer every day and it's annoying having to plug in four cables (first world problems).
 
Update from Caldigit regarding TS3:

Due to several software related issues resulting in production delays, at present we are looking approximately middle of May 2017.
 
Update from Caldigit regarding TS3:

Due to several software related issues resulting in production delays, at present we are looking approximately middle of May 2017.

Did you get preorder pricing on this? Are they letting your maintain preorder pricing even after cancelling your order?

I can understand Caldigit refunding orders if they believe its going to be a while before things aren't fulfilled but its very suspicious, given their history with the preorder pricing, I think they know they're the only game in town for certain functionality and, based on reviews for TB2 docks such as OWCs previous offering, the most stable solution. Why bother for the bargain basement price of $199 - $250 when people are willing to pay more and there is an opportunity.

I hope this isn't the case but I can't shake the feels.
 
Did you get preorder pricing on this? Are they letting your maintain preorder pricing even after cancelling your order?

Yes, I got preorder pricing. They sent me a discount code, which I could use for a new order.
 
I think dyn is overstating this. Yes, obviously there are many payola reviews across platforms.
It's not just the reviews themselves, it's about how companies behave. Companies are now giving rewards to people for leaving a (mostly) positive review, sponsor people on social media (where kids and teenagers have great difficulty in detecting that something is an advertisement), they ask you to change the review/scoring when a problem is resolved but there have also been many cases in various countries where people left a not so nice review and got sued by the company. Those cases have actually been very interesting to follow as they affect freedom of speech on the internet as well as who is responsible for what.

Mind you that this is also due to a difference in culture. In the USA people will defend the company and let them have their way. In the rest of the world people consider companies to be evil and limit them in what they are allowed to do. Allowing ISPs to sell your data is a good example of that, only possible in the USA, absolutely forbidden elsewhere.

But there are also large amounts of perfectly valid purchasers who offer valid info on whether the product worked for them, and how it worked over time, so I don't think we should tar everyone like this under the same brush.
We shouldn't but one does need to be aware with reviews and learn not to trust a company. When you read a review look for the workflow bits, those are the most meaningful and specs you can compare to the spec sheet of the manufacturer.

Pretty common-sensical.
Use common sense and be sceptical (read: don't believe everything that is written/said) is my entire point.

Anyway can we stick to the "TB3 DOCKS FOR MBP 2016" subject of the thread, as this is somewhat of a massive tangent! ;)
Not much we can say about that other than: wait till they get the proper docks out (which is now going to be mid May :eek:).

Btw, StarTech now also sells a dock that is nearly identical to the TS3 Lite from CalDigit for a cost of $263.99 (in other words...get the CalDigit one, it's only $199.99!).
 
Not much we can say about that other than: wait till they get the proper docks out (which is now going to be mid May :eek:).

You can get the HP x2 65W TB3 dock now. I did buy it and will get it tomorrow. Will post here, how it works with the Macbook Pro 2016.
 
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You can get the HP x2 65W TB3 dock now. I did buy it and will get it tomorrow. Will post here, how it works with the Macbook Pro 2016.

If you feel like selling your caldigit code let me know, get some money for your troubles :p
 
I think dyn is overstating this. Yes, obviously there are many payola reviews across platforms. Especially IMO, where the reviewer "got one for free for my honest opinion" and gives it 5/5 stars – complete BS, as that instantly instigates large amounts of bias into the honest opinion process.
But there are also large amounts of perfectly valid purchasers who offer valid info on whether the product worked for them, and how it worked over time, so I don't think we should tar everyone like this under the same brush. I personally review things from time to time, so know for sure that I'm not being biased, and know there must be several millions of others doing the same thing that are not biased either. Doesn't mean I value every review I read, either, as some are truly valueless.

Of course, as the saying goes "opinions are like arseholes: everyone's got one one", so one person's good is another's average is another's bad. And one has always to have some expectation that things may not work out, and/or read through several reviews, all with a critical mind, rather than taking everything at face value.

Pretty common-sensical.
____

Anyway can we stick to the "TB3 DOCKS FOR MBP 2016" subject of the thread, as this is somewhat of a massive tangent! ;)
Yup. To extend this tangent beyond your wishes, it's good to be aware of the problems @dyn raises, and others, as there are many, but customer reviews remain among the most useful way to learn about actual use. They can't replace professional reviews, usually (some are done by pros), but they can give a lot more data points.

I participate in Amazon's Vine program, which allows me to choose from a list of products to receive for free to review. Many people dismiss such reviews for reasons similar to those given by dyn, but a recent study showed that Vine reviews are actually more critical than other reviews of the same products. There are two reasons: One, Amazon is very clear that negative reviews cannot affect one's status in the Vine program, and their track record supports this 100%. Two, Vine reviewers tend to be veteran customer reviewers (the selection process to be invited to the program appears to involve a random process that is tied to number of reviews), and they generally write better, more thoughtful reviews.

On the other hand, I recently reviewed a book that I got an advance copy of, and I tracked the reviews for the book. The day the book became available at Amazon, the first non-Vine review was posted for a "Verified purchase" of the hardback edition, which couldn't possibly have reached the reviewer, let alone been read yet, and it read just like a publisher's blurb. Which it very likely was, something written by the publisher for the occasion. Several other "Verified purchase" reviews showed up before anyone could have read it, probably also by associates of the author or publisher, though none said so. All of them were entirely positive, gushing, for a book that I think has real problems. My Vine review was for a time the only critical review.

So, you can't tell in advance what kinds of reviews might be the most helpful. You have to read them and use your own best judgment.

Edit: To get back to @ZapNZs' original point, as I understood it, whether we feel it't useful or not to read customer reviews, manufacturers are certainly concerned about them, and it makes sense for a dock manufacturer burned by early reviews once to be certain not to repeat that. (And 3.5 stars is a lousy average at Amazon. The early reviews were even worse.)
 
So, you can't tell in advance what kinds of reviews might be the most helpful. You have to read them and use your own best judgment.
I like what the Dutch website tweakers.net does. They have user reviews but they are like any of their other content: you can post replies which allows for a discussion between the reviewer as well as any other community member. The community and the mods score both the review and the reactions (it's a bit like Wikipedia, there are certain levels in that such as ordinary frontpage reviewers, to special reviewers and the mods themselves). It's not an entirely waterproof system because there are so called opinion-reviewers (people scoring replies based on how much they agree with it instead of the quality of the reply), especially when there is little moderation.
There are quite a lot of really good reviews on various items (not always the most recent stuff which is rather nice because in general the pros don't review the older stuff).

You can get the HP x2 65W TB3 dock now. I did buy it and will get it tomorrow. Will post here, how it works with the Macbook Pro 2016.
Be aware that docks from HP and Dell may not work with a Mac or even a non-HP/Dell machine. People have reported some issues with those (especially HP). May want to look this up and see what the exact issues were.
 
I like what the Dutch website tweakers.net does. They have user reviews but they are like any of their other content: you can post replies which allows for a discussion between the reviewer as well as any other community member. The community and the mods score both the review and the reactions (it's a bit like Wikipedia, there are certain levels in that such as ordinary frontpage reviewers, to special reviewers and the mods themselves). It's not an entirely waterproof system because there are so called opinion-reviewers (people scoring replies based on how much they agree with it instead of the quality of the reply), especially when there is little moderation.
There are quite a lot of really good reviews on various items (not always the most recent stuff which is rather nice because in general the pros don't review the older stuff).
Yes, those things are helpful. Amazon, Best Buy and most other sites that have customer reviews do some of that too, with votes and replies, though no mod particfipation.
 
So with the pending OWC dock (https://eshop.macsales.com/preorder/owc-thunderbolt-3-dock/) only providing up-to 60W, how well will this work with a 2016 15" over time? It makes me very nervous and upsetting that they couldn't pump a little more power out. Apologies if this has already been addressed earlier.

My brain is running off the old school philosphy that charging devices that demand more power with lower powered supplies is bad for the components and should be avoided (fine the other way around). Is that accurate anymore?
 
So with the pending OWC dock (https://eshop.macsales.com/preorder/owc-thunderbolt-3-dock/) only providing up-to 60W, how well will this work with a 2016 15" over time? It makes me very nervous and upsetting that they couldn't pump a little more power out. Apologies if this has already been addressed earlier.

My brain is running off the old school philosphy that charging devices that demand more power with lower powered supplies is bad for the components and should be avoided (fine the other way around). Is that accurate anymore?

I don't think it will do any harm (and OWC would know), but it will limit the usefulness of the dock. Maybe I missed this earlier, but where does OWC say the dock will only supply 60 W?
 
So with the pending OWC dock (https://eshop.macsales.com/preorder/owc-thunderbolt-3-dock/) only providing up-to 60W, how well will this work with a 2016 15" over time? It makes me very nervous and upsetting that they couldn't pump a little more power out. Apologies if this has already been addressed earlier.

My brain is running off the old school philosphy that charging devices that demand more power with lower powered supplies is bad for the components and should be avoided (fine the other way around). Is that accurate anymore?
The OWC TB3 dock is not 60W, it's meant to be ~85W – though they don't advertise it.
Scratch that.
 
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I don't think it will do any harm (and OWC would know), but it will limit the usefulness of the dock. Maybe I missed this earlier, but where does OWC say the dock will only supply 60 W?

That's the trick, they don't say. I had to call and get transferred 3 times until I finally got to a senior tech that was aware of the protocols. Sadly he confirmed "up-to 60 watts". It's a shame because this dock is exactly what I'm looking for otherwise.

I just remember ancient Apple tech notes saying less wattage supply was the end of the world.
[doublepost=1490977088][/doublepost]
The OWC TB3 dock is not 60W, it's meant to be ~85W – though they don't advertise it.

Not what they told me...could the tech and customer rep have been wrong?
 
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That's the trick, they don't say. I had to call and get transferred 3 times until I finally got to a senior tech that was aware of the protocols. Sadly he confirmed "up-to 60 watts". It's a shame because this dock is exactly what I'm looking for otherwise.

I just remember ancient Apple tech notes saying less wattage supply was the end of the world.
I don't think that's been 100% confirmed yet, regardless of what you may have been told, as I thought they were supposed to be upgrading it to ~85W... though I may have that wrong?

Although I just found this video from them, dated 20 Jan 2017, where they said "60W":

So I will amend my post at #50 to have 60W instead. Bummer if so, as I was planning on getting that one if it charged. If Caldigit's big one can do 85W then why on earth not OWC's???? :-(

To be honest all the others don't appeal: as they all have less ports on them. The Caldigit big is OK, but two ports for eSATA is OTT (surely one would have done?) and many including myself don't use them, thus leaving only 3x USB-A ones rather than 5.

These docks are all boring me, outside of the OWC and Caldigit big. But now I may skip them all to be honest.
 
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