I tend to agree, but it’s not really the car for me. For many reasons I’ll never own a Tesla.
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Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk
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Sad but true. I’ve lost a load on my BMW i3s through depreciation. However I’ve saved a load on petrol costs.
I think it will start to level out on EV’s though and the depreciation will become similar to ICE vehicles.
In the US. Not everyone gets that 7.5k remember.
It will do well with Taxi's and Uber / Lift / Just Eat drivers and the likes.
By todays standards, it is a cheap vehicle, and some people like that. They just want an a-2-b type of car. Definitely not for me though.
I'm not in the market for a car, but if I were and was planning to move to EVs, I don't think a $5K price difference would over-rule the lack of features.
It seems to be a reduction of just over 10% of the final delivery price, for a car which (to me!) has more than 10% worth of stuff removed.
Like many people I suspect, despite the controversy (I'm trying not to derail 😁) around the company and Musk, Teslas are decent cars. I've been in a few as a passenger and like them. I do think that, in Europe, BYD will do well. I've not been in one yet, though.
It seems to be a reduction of just over 10% of the final delivery price, for a car which (to me!) has more than 10% worth of stuff removed.
Like many people I suspect, despite the controversy (I'm trying not to derail 😁) around the company and Musk, Teslas are decent cars. I've been in a few as a passenger and like them. I do think that, in Europe, BYD will do well. I've not been in one yet, though.
I’ve experienced three different BYD models in the UK and they’re quite impressive. Sales have grown an amazing 880% recently.
880% Sales Surge Makes Britain BYD’s Top EV Market Outside China
BYD sold over 11,271 cars in September, representing a substantial rise of 880% compared to the same month last year and saw it also overtake legacy brands such as Renault and SEAT.
electriccarsreport.com
I own a Model 3 and have test driven the BYD Seal and been a passenger in the Atto 3. Also evaluated the Dolphin standing still.
I found all impressive (the Dolphin not so much) particularly the Seal but it wasn't perfect and at least here they aren't that cheap (and that's pre tariff affairs).
They have a deal on Ubers and I have yet to see many personal BYDs (Ubers here have a small sign, easy to spot if you know what to look for). But it's a small country and who knows how it's going in other EU countries.
IMHO normal Model 3s (and Ys) still offer a very good proposition. I do find Tesla really needs to have something newer on drawing boards but for the time being they are OKish.
But these cheaper Models... If they were to be offered in Europe beyond taxis and Ubers very few would accept the compromises.
Honestly a 10% reduction in the final delivery price of a vehicle is actually a HUGH reduction... Especially when the vehicle never sells over MSRP like they do with other traditional manufactures here in the US.
Yes. I also am not sure what the devaluation of EVs are anywhere else other than the US. For the US the automatic devaluation is in a big part because of the $7.5k credit.
Which, if you didn't get it, buying new makes you pay OVER value... Since majority of people get the credit (and it turned to on the spot discount), and you don't you overpaid out of the box...
Going to have to see how this all shakes out, will EVs now hold their value more, because of the removal of the credit? And the removal of the used market credit?
I have a feeling like it will.
I would also add that when they consider devaluation of ICE vehicles, do they go by used value today vs original MSRP? Because if so, they do not account for ICEs that sell OVER MSRP. Which would give ICE vehicles an unfair advantage when coupled with the EV tax credit.
Yes, in retrospect, I would consider the entire process a complete cluster (No rebate, high interest, not LR or Performance, 3 and not the Y, imperfect frunk hood, dark interior not white). My previous car died suddenly while on vacation and was without a car for a couple weeks. Desperate to get out of rentals I almost missed getting my M3 (was going to get an ICE I was so angry at Chevy). So when I decided on the Tesla I wanted it right away. You couldn't have convinced me I was making a mistake (not the car, but how I was purchasing it). Hopefully this situation will not repeat.
Stay positive. You need to think of the hassle and rental costs you saved by buying your car quickly.
If someone intends on keeping their vehicle, resale value means nothing. I plan on keeping my TM3 & TMY as long as possible. The resale value of any vehicle I've ever owned has never mattered to me. I typically keep my vehicles in excess of 8 years.
It really sucks when there are programs that have a cut, if you make $1 more than some amount you aren't eligible. Since there was a limit to the number of vehicles you could use the tax credit on, I think it should have been open to everyone (no AGI limit), as long as the vehicle complied with the regulations.
It sucks you didn't get the credit to bring down the price to where everyone else at the time paid, but if you like it, enjoy it, and have fun!
Yeah that is our thought. We bought a used 2018 TM3 LR AWD from Tesla in 2022, with 33k miles on it. It now has 105,000 miles on it. We're going to drive the wheels off this thing because we love it so much. Came with FSD (transferred to our 2024) and Acceleration Boost - (3.6-3.8 second 0-60 is amazing). Yes, it was a little expensive, and we still owe more on it than it's worth but ... with the driving we do, we're saving so much $. Was nice using the carpool lanes up till last month too. lol.
My 2024 M3 LR AWD - loved our 2018 so much, had to get one for me. I owe just about what it's worth on it (thanks to federal tax credit and some $ down). But I intend to drive this thing till the wheels fall off. Was hoping it would get acceleration boost but a 4 second 0-60 is more than I ever need.
The savings we're getting doing 0 maintenance - 0 oil changes - 0 waiting in costco gas lines (not to mention 0 gas especially here in NorCal) - ... it adds up like crazy very quickly. (My wife got free work charging for several years).
The only 2 year maintenance I did on our 2018 was ... fill the window washer fluid reservoir. That was eye opening and mind boggling. We have 70k tires on it now and it is going to go another 100k easily.
I should probably have those cabin filters changed.
Perhaps I could change them myself but I have seen a few videos and It seems a bit too much disassembly.
They should have engineered it differently perhaps with the filters assessable from the frunk.
I'm on the second 5 litre jug for the washer fluid. I like my windshield squeaky clean.
Oh well first world problems.
Perhaps I could change them myself but I have seen a few videos and It seems a bit too much disassembly.
They should have engineered it differently perhaps with the filters assessable from the frunk.
I'm on the second 5 litre jug for the washer fluid. I like my windshield squeaky clean.
Oh well first world problems.
This is the ideal strategy as the industry in general is trending towards poor resale value. Therefore if one plans to keep the car long term, resale is of lesser importance.
The only exception occurs if the vehicle is totaled in an accident, which of course is out of one’s control.
The key is just drive it and enjoy it.
While I like the reduction in maintenance, savings in "gas" compared to my previous Prius Prime is questionable, esp the cost for electricity in California.Yeah that is our thought. We bought a used 2018 TM3 LR AWD from Tesla in 2022, with 33k miles on it. It now has 105,000 miles on it. We're going to drive the wheels off this thing because we love it so much. Came with FSD (transferred to our 2024) and Acceleration Boost - (3.6-3.8 second 0-60 is amazing). Yes, it was a little expensive, and we still owe more on it than it's worth but ... with the driving we do, we're saving so much $. Was nice using the carpool lanes up till last month too. lol.
My 2024 M3 LR AWD - loved our 2018 so much, had to get one for me. I owe just about what it's worth on it (thanks to federal tax credit and some $ down). But I intend to drive this thing till the wheels fall off. Was hoping it would get acceleration boost but a 4 second 0-60 is more than I ever need.
The savings we're getting doing 0 maintenance - 0 oil changes - 0 waiting in costco gas lines (not to mention 0 gas especially here in NorCal) - ... it adds up like crazy very quickly. (My wife got free work charging for several years).
The only 2 year maintenance I did on our 2018 was ... fill the window washer fluid reservoir. That was eye opening and mind boggling. We have 70k tires on it now and it is going to go another 100k easily.
And I definitely like to not go to a gas station anymore with charging at home, those who don't have that ability spend much more time charging than waiting at Costco...
For me, savings on gas was never the reason to get an EV and as I said, not sure I am saving but I really do not care about that aspect.
You're spot on with EV charging costs and gas ... 2024 was the teller:
Almost no difference. Note, we moved to NorCal in September 2024, so my wife's work commute was less than halved. In 2023 it was almost an $800 difference for us. Over $1100 in 2022. (Note the free work charging was only a 12 amp outlet, wasn't like we were getting a lot for free (less than 6% of all charging in 2023)).
2025, we're seeing a significantly bigger savings because Tesla supercharging costs have dropped (and we go during off peak - while grocery shopping for even more savings) at 72 kW Superchargers. (Almost $500 this year so far).
But yeah CA has made cost of electricity insane.
I still have SCE bills from 2011 where I was paying $.12/kWh.
PG&E now:
We have the EV2-A plan despite living in an apartment (we don't charge here) - so we get slightly reduced electric rates for owning an EV lol:
I use 2.2kW of batteries to offload my office/home usage during 3pm-12am to the $.30/kWh hours.
What ups our market prices are mainly the CCGTs.
We have around double gas prices (compare for example Henry Hub and TTF) and the European Carbon market which adds another 1/3 to the price (more or less, gross approximation) so a CCGT is currently with a marginal price of around 100 euros/MWh.
During the day PV and Wind bring the prices down sometimes to zero.
We end with around 16 cent before VAT (there are better offers, this is average) in a flat non time of use tariff.
Myself I have dual ToU and it's 18 cents 8h to 22h and 9 cents 22h to 8h
Anybody knows how California gets those prices with much cheaper gas?
We have around double gas prices (compare for example Henry Hub and TTF) and the European Carbon market which adds another 1/3 to the price (more or less, gross approximation) so a CCGT is currently with a marginal price of around 100 euros/MWh.
During the day PV and Wind bring the prices down sometimes to zero.
We end with around 16 cent before VAT (there are better offers, this is average) in a flat non time of use tariff.
Myself I have dual ToU and it's 18 cents 8h to 22h and 9 cents 22h to 8h
Anybody knows how California gets those prices with much cheaper gas?
I agree, you really need home charging to enjoy an EV properly. When I got my Y through work I had charging at work so would charge up every day. On weekends I would usually get buy on a full charge, but sometimes I would not. I had work put in a charger at my house and it is an amazing experience.
I’m not sure that we can go by current used EV prices as a long term indicator. The prices have fluctuated drastically over the past 3-4 years. the federal credits have pushed prices down for new and used. Currently EVs are seen as out of favor in some circles. Demand is softer than before, but if it continues to be hard to import or manufacture EVs, then demand for used may rise again. We are not really at a steady, established market yet, with predictable prices. too much chaos for solid predictions.
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BYD are amazing. In China, many taxis/Didi's are BYD. The higher end is like a BMW 7 or Audi A8 in terms of luxury.I’ve experienced three different BYD models in the UK and they’re quite impressive. Sales have grown an amazing 880% recently.
880% Sales Surge Makes Britain BYD’s Top EV Market Outside China
BYD sold over 11,271 cars in September, representing a substantial rise of 880% compared to the same month last year and saw it also overtake legacy brands such as Renault and SEAT.electriccarsreport.com
I own three gas powered cars so it might be a while before I buy electric. But if I did I think would but a Chinese electric car. Tesla and other western brands are so over-priced! Even with 100% tariffs or whatever absurd number it is still makes Chinese cars cheaper!
Here is an example, a Xiaomi (the phone maker!) SU7 Ultra in the wild, and the disparity in price versus a Porsche Taycan.
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So true, chaos is the perfect word that sums up the current state of the market.