Who is going to wait for 2nd gen iMac 27" Retina?

[ddarko]

I doubt that the imac needs a redesign next year, probably will just get a processor bump to broadwell and various spec improvements.

The next major change to imac is to make it into an external display (which I bet won't be happening until Skylake), and then perhaps to increase the screen size even if they do it with a similar overall size by putting a 30" in the same case.

Skylake is next year - late next year, but next year. It will launch in the same 2nd half of the year timeframe that you'd expect the 5k iMac revision. Intel has been terrible at keeping to their CPU schedule in the last couple years but Intel recently publicly pledged that Skylake will be on time.

As tempting as the shiny 5k Retina is, Skylake makes it worthwhile to wait if you can. Not for the CPU but the new chipset that will go with it that will have the new USB 3.1 standard that doubles transfer speed, increased power capacity so desktop hard drives can be powered through the cable and also carry Displayport video and audio signals like Thunderbolt. I would regret not having USB 3.1 if I bought the current 5k Retina iMac.

 

[tillsbury]

Skylake is next year - late next year, but next year. It will launch in the same 2nd half of the year timeframe that you'd expect the 5k iMac revision. Intel has been terrible at keeping to their CPU schedule in the last couple years but Intel recently publicly pledged that Skylake will be on time.

As tempting as the shiny 5k Retina is, Skylake makes it worthwhile to wait if you can. Not for the CPU but the new chipset that will go with it that will have the new USB 3.1 standard that doubles transfer speed, increased power capacity so desktop hard drives can be powered through the cable and also carry Displayport video and audio signals like Thunderbolt. I would regret not having USB 3.1 if I bought the current 5k Retina iMac.

Do you really think that we'll get a Broadwell upgrade early next year and then another upgrade just 12 months from now?

But also, the only device I use USB3 for is my secondary external backup drive. I can't imagine what else I'd need it for. External storage is TB, primary backup is through NAS. Every other device is USB2 (or might as well be, for the demands it makes).

 

[ddarko]

Intel has been questioned about it and has said it will launch both chips concurrently in the same year. It is highly unusual but broadwell is so badly delayed that Intel seems determined not to let it keep on delaying everything else. As to what Apple does, who can say. I'd prefer they skip broadwell and wait for skylake to refresh.

 

[theSeb]

? $3000 for an iMac in this country. Are Apple delusional or what? Who pays $3000 for a glorified laptop, I'm sorry 5K isn't such a big deal to justify what you can spend on a real computer ¿

I am not sure why you're posting here then! Go build your real computer and find the right forum. What are trying to achieve here?

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Skylake is next year - late next year, but next year. It will launch in the same 2nd half of the year timeframe that you'd expect the 5k iMac revision. Intel has been terrible at keeping to their CPU schedule in the last couple years but Intel recently publicly pledged that Skylake will be on time.

As tempting as the shiny 5k Retina is, Skylake makes it worthwhile to wait if you can. Not for the CPU but the new chipset that will go with it that will have the new USB 3.1 standard that doubles transfer speed, increased power capacity so desktop hard drives can be powered through the cable and also carry Displayport video and audio signals like Thunderbolt. I would regret not having USB 3.1 if I bought the current 5k Retina iMac.

Broadwell is so delayed that the chance of skylake next year is pretty slim

 

[Cape Dave]

I can't imagine if I had waited a year when the rMBP came out in 2012. Best computer I've ever owned and has run flawlessly since then. I've been waiting for this product. High DPI makes such a difference in the day to day experience of using a computer. I use mine every day. Waiting for a few spec bumps seems like lunacy.

Agree 100%. You are getting the benefit of hi rez every SECOND you are on the computer. No brainer.

 

[ddarko]

I am not sure why you're posting here then! Go build your real computer and find the right forum. What are trying to achieve here?

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Broadwell is so delayed that the chance of skylake next year is pretty slim

Intel pledged at its developer forum last month that skylake would launch next year. It would be highly unusual for them to walk that back after a public announcement at their biggest annual conference. If they had any plans to delay it into 2016, they could have been ambivalent or refused to commit to a time period. Frankly, Broadwell seems to be an unwanted child - Intel spent the IDF demoing Skylake chips, not Broadwell. They've had so much trouble with B and it's screwed up their release cadence that Intel will release it but they won't let it affect their yearly tick tock cadence anymore. Intel wants to get to skylake and will skip over broadwell as quickly as possible.

 

[MacDarcy]

After today's message that due to DisplayPort limitations it's a pass. You won't be able to use it as an external monitor and DP 1.3 isn't due for at least a year so no Mac Pro/iMac external 5k for awhile.

Bingo. This is HUGE for me. Is love a retina imac, but I'm not gonna spend $3,000 plus and then NOT be able to use it as a monitor down the road. You can use non retina iMacs as monitors, and that makes them useful in the future when they can't run the latest OS.

 

[theSeb]

Intel pledged at its developer forum last month that skylake would launch next year. It would be highly unusual for them to walk that back after a public announcement at their biggest annual conference. If they had any plans to delay it into 2016, they could have been ambivalent or refused to commit to a time period. Frankly, Broadwell seems to be an unwanted child - Intel spent the IDF demoing Skylake chips, not Broadwell. They've had so much trouble with B and it's screwed up their release cadence that Intel will release it but they won't let it affect their yearly tick tock cadence anymore. Intel wants to get to skylake and will skip over broadwell as quickly as possible.

Well, we will see what happens.

 

[inhalexhale1]

I am definitely going to wait. I was surprised by the AMD GPU choice. Notebookcheck ranks the AMD Radeon R9 M290X @ #26, and the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M @ #9 (with only dual card setups beating it). I don't see the 295 on the list though. I have not had good experiences with AMD, but I wouldn't not-buy an iMac over it. I feel like this iMac is more of a peak into the future than something to buy now, at least for me.

 

[kis]

I got a 15" rMBP at the end of last year to replace my late 2006 model 24" iMac. I would have got an iMac if there had been a retina version then.



I am seriously considering selling the rMBP to get the retina iMac. One thing making me think of waiting for the next model is Thunderbolt 3. That is due soon and will have the bandwidth for using the iMac as a monitor at full resolution. A potential option for when the internals are no longer fast enough.

I also sold my iMac (but a little over two years ago) and got the 15" rMBP. I've since gotten used to doing everything on that one, so I'm not sure I want to go back to an enormous screen, although I'm tempted

 

[TRAV9614]

Deleted

 

[tillsbury]

I am pretty sure there will be a redesign next year. There was one in 2004, 2007, 2009, and 2012. That puts 2015 in line with that cycle for a redesign. The 21 inch imac will most likely become retina next year so that really would be the perfect time for the redesign.

So it went from plastic box CRT in 98, to LCD on a blob in 02, to today's design (in white) in 04, aluminium in 07, and then thinner only a year and a half ago (Christmas 12/13). I don't think that you can deduce a three year cycle from those figures. There was a sub-change (to fairly identical but larger screens) in 06 and 09. And, you might say, there is another sub-change now in 14 (to retina display).

The current 27" thin iMac was launched in January 2013 and has just had a major internal upgrade. Why would you think it would all be changed next year? Next year is time for the Watch, a new MBA retina, an updated Pro, and more than likely a retina smaller screen iMac.

What change are you expecting next year's update to be (other than processor and spec bumps)? Even thinner? Not thinner? Aluminium or not?

 

[SchneiderMan]

I'll wait whilst I enjoy my 5K iMac right now.

 

[colodane]

I'm due to replace my mid 2011 iMac within the next year or so. I'm hoping for some sort of packaging redesign before I do, but don't have a warm feeling that Apple will abandon their "thinness above all" priority. Specifically, the double-sided tape routine for internal access and the lack of a memory door on the 21.5 inch models are particularly irksome.

 

[bwsteg]

So it went from plastic box CRT in 98, to LCD on a blob in 02, to today's design (in white) in 04, aluminium in 07, and then thinner only a year and a half ago (Christmas 12/13). I don't think that you can deduce a three year cycle from those figures. There was a sub-change (to fairly identical but larger screens) in 06 and 09. And, you might say, there is another sub-change now in 14 (to retina display).

The current 27" thin iMac was launched in January 2013 and has just had a major internal upgrade. Why would you think it would all be changed next year? Next year is time for the Watch, a new MBA retina, an updated Pro, and more than likely a retina smaller screen iMac.

What change are you expecting next year's update to be (other than processor and spec bumps)? Even thinner? Not thinner? Aluminium or not?

I truly hope your prediction is correct...

 

[ElectronGuru]

So it went from plastic box CRT in 98, to LCD on a blob in 02, to today's design (in white) in 04, aluminium in 07, and then thinner only a year and a half ago (Christmas 12/13). I don't think that you can deduce a three year cycle from those figures. There was a sub-change (to fairly identical but larger screens) in 06 and 09. And, you might say, there is another sub-change now in 14 (to retina display).

The current 27" thin iMac was launched in January 2013 and has just had a major internal upgrade. Why would you think it would all be changed next year? Next year is time for the Watch, a new MBA retina, an updated Pro, and more than likely a retina smaller screen iMac.

Interesting timeline. Another problem is retina vs non retina versions. They can't kill the low res until the high res comes down substantially in price and they won't want to put a low res screen in the next chassis. So they'll have to wait or run two chassis at the same time. Don't see the later happening.

 

[rrl]

What do you think Broadwell is going to bring to the table in a desktop?

Lower temperatures and a quieter fan, but it most likely will be Skylake.

 

[johnnyturbouk]

Intel pledged at its developer forum last month that skylake would launch next year. It would be highly unusual for them to walk that back after a public announcement at their biggest annual conference. If they had any plans to delay it into 2016, they could have been ambivalent or refused to commit to a time period. Frankly, Broadwell seems to be an unwanted child - Intel spent the IDF demoing Skylake chips, not Broadwell. They've had so much trouble with B and it's screwed up their release cadence that Intel will release it but they won't let it affect their yearly tick tock cadence anymore. Intel wants to get to skylake and will skip over broadwell as quickly as possible.

true . Intel seems adamant skylake will not be delayed. Here is an interesting article really why wait for skylake.
http://http://www.pcworld.com/article/2683392/pc-confusion-to-linger-on-intels-quick-jump-to-skylake.html

Skylake is next year - late next year, but next year. It will launch in the same 2nd half of the year timeframe that you'd expect the 5k iMac revision. Intel has been terrible at keeping to their CPU schedule in the last couple years but Intel recently publicly pledged that Skylake will be on time.

As tempting as the shiny 5k Retina is, Skylake makes it worthwhile to wait if you can. Not for the CPU but the new chipset that will go with it that will have the new USB 3.1 standard that doubles transfer speed, increased power capacity so desktop hard drives can be powered through the cable and also carry Displayport video and audio signals like Thunderbolt. I would regret not having USB 3.1 if I bought the current 5k Retina iMac.

Agree 100%. I know if I can wait till next year I will not regret it. The tech would have been tested more rigorously including real world usage. As you mentioned the advent in tech will be leaps and bounds above haswell-ie tb3/dp 1.3 USB 3.1, pcie-3, HDMI 2+, target display mode etc. I appreciate the argument that newer and better tech is always around the corner - but as a number of experts have ordained the jump to skylake will be a massive improvement on a number of different attributes.

Broadwell is so delayed that the chance of skylake next year is pretty slim

This is what concerns me. Intel'screlease dates fluctuate more than Oprah Winfrey's waistline. I have read on a number if occasions that Intel will not delay skylake. Maybe they will release skylake for desktop Q4 2015 then for laptops 2016. One article seemed to attest broadwell was geared for mobile/laptops and skylake for pro/desktops.


Finally plus apple put a desktop gpu on the 27" I mean by all means let the 21.5/24" model be as slim as Johnny Ives desires. I do not seem the logic in skimming on gpu for a pro machine with a 5k screen

 

[TRAV9614]

Deleted

 

[russellelly]

Bingo. This is HUGE for me. Is love a retina imac, but I'm not gonna spend $3,000 plus and then NOT be able to use it as a monitor down the road. You can use non retina iMacs as monitors, and that makes them useful in the future when they can't run the latest OS.

Yep. The monitor must be a massive proportion of the price you're paying. To couple that tightly to today's computing tech doesn't make much sense. I really hope a future revision addresses this, because it looks like a stunning machine. My 2006 iMac lives for another year I think ( ).

 

[ddarko]

Bingo. This is HUGE for me. Is love a retina imac, but I'm not gonna spend $3,000 plus and then NOT be able to use it as a monitor down the road. You can use non retina iMacs as monitors, and that makes them useful in the future when they can't run the latest OS.

The likely solution that will let the retina iMac be used an external display is to add Displayport 1.3 to it. The current gen of Displayport 1.2 doesn't have the bandwidth to drive a 5k monitor over a single cable but 1.3 does. However, you'll need 1.3 ports on both the iMac and the computer you're connecting to it. There's not a computer or video card on the planet right now that has Displayport 1.3 since the standard was only finalized last month so at minimum, you're going to have to replace your current computer or video card.

Agree 100%. I know if I can wait till next year I will not regret it. The tech would have been tested more rigorously including real world usage. As you mentioned the advent in tech will be leaps and bounds above haswell-ie tb3/dp 1.3 USB 3.1, pcie-3, HDMI 2+, target display mode etc.

I've changed my mind about waiting. I've looked up the features of the Skylake chipset that leaked in July and unfortunately, the plans are to stick with native USB 3.0. Apple could add USB 3.1 on their own but I doubt they will. USB 3.1 is the only new tech that I think would be immediately useful and worth waiting for. Target mode support would be nice but since DP 1.3 needs to be on both ends and I just got a Macbook Pro, I'm stuck with DP 1.2. HDMI 2.0 outputs are theoretically useful but I've never connected a computer to my TV and I seriously doubt I ever will in the future, especially not a 27" iMac. PCI-Express 3.0 will be like 2.0 - it won't make any difference for single GPU setups like the iMac and isn't worth waiting for.

What will be interesting about Skylake is if Apple decides to go with its integrated Iris GT4e graphics, at least on the base configuration, as it did with the Macbook Pro. Nvidia/AMD's graphics chips will likely still be more powerful but Skylake's integrated graphics may be good enough for Apple to drop discrete graphics in the base iMac.

 

[dagamer34]

Unless your computer is very recent, the only reason to wait is for Apple to update this iMac with a 20nm AMD GPU next year and hope it has more oomph. Broadwell won't do too much for desktop CPU performance. Thunderbolt 3 will be a rarity. And you'll be waiting until 2016 for Skylake most likely an DDR4 support (and 64GB RAM support along with it).

 

[tillsbury]

What would you want USB3.1 for? Assuming the computer you're waiting for has TB3 and thus DP1.3, anything high performance would be on this surely? What does USB3.1 do that USB3 doesn't?

 

[TRAV9614]

Deleted

 

[tillsbury]

USB3 is 5Gbps. USB3.1 is 10Gbps.

And TB2 is 20Gbps. USB3 at 5Gbps is more than capable of running external SSDs without the interface being the issue.

So what exactly do you need USB3.1 for, that you can't already do with USB3 at 5Gbps or (if you need maximum bandwidth) Thunderbolt/Displayport?

I don't understand why you judge USB3.1 to be a significant upgrade. Not that I'm hating. I honestly don't get it. If you could suggest something that might be improved with USB3.1 then I'd be interested to hear.