This is a terrible and extremely unprofessional way for one of MacRumors' front-pagers or a member of staff to receive and publicly feed back on well-reasoned criticism.
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This is a terrible and extremely unprofessional way for one of MacRumors' front-pagers or a member of staff to receive and publicly feed back on well-reasoned criticism.
Guys... I think things have progressed well overall.
There were a few articles this past week which were a big off our usual tone, so I agree with those criticisms, and it doesn't surprise me that they were mentioned here. But your feedback is always noted.
The blog section will be a bit more casual in tone as will the topics. I agree the front page should continue to be a very straightforward and factual.
The site is sectioned off on purpose, so you can stick to the front page if you like. We rarely used Page 2 and iPhone blog before, so all the (now) Blog articles are a bonus, and has been intentionally structured to post stories that wouldn't fit the tone of the front page. Such as the Goat story or the iCloud error message screenshots. Yet, these are stories I think are still very interesting... and that has always been the selection criteria for the site.
arn
There were a few articles this past week which were a big off our usual tone, so I agree with those criticisms, and it doesn't surprise me that they were mentioned here. But your feedback is always noted.
The blog section will be a bit more casual in tone as will the topics. I agree the front page should continue to be a very straightforward and factual.
The site is sectioned off on purpose, so you can stick to the front page if you like. We rarely used Page 2 and iPhone blog before, so all the (now) Blog articles are a bonus, and has been intentionally structured to post stories that wouldn't fit the tone of the front page. Such as the Goat story or the iCloud error message screenshots. Yet, these are stories I think are still very interesting... and that has always been the selection criteria for the site.
arn
Considering some of the terrible and unprofessional "feedback" and "well-reasoned criticism" that he was given, I don't blame him.
I agree. All the criticism I've read in this thread has been backed up with examples and well-reasoned, level headed criticism.
IMO, no one had been (to borrow the word, if he doesn't mind) histrionic until a couple of posts ago.
the articles written by Jordon Golson are pretty bad.
<...>
C'mon guys, you're better than this.
Is it now a rule that MR stories have to have hyphenated words?
Sorry, but THAT isn't "well-reasoned, level-headed criticism." Most of it simply boils down to just being an ass.
Perhaps instead of trying to berate him, try offering up actual pieces of advice without being so toxic.
You enjoy any and all feedback? That's interesting considering you've equated the postings of those who have been most vocal to being more histrionic than anything else. You may enjoy feedback but it is clear that you have absolutely no desire to grow from it. Masking your blase attitude and disrespect for opinions of your readers by insulting them tells me that you welcome feedback about as well as you welcome a swift kick in the rear end.
Perhaps the inclusion of your ramblings at MR gives you some idea that you are above it; perhaps that is true. I don't care if you wrote for 100 well-known blogs in the past. My guess is your insults aren't welcome in any forum no matter how hard you're trying.
I will give it to you that writing is not easy and writing for this audience increases the challenge. I don't see a real shift in your style but that is not to say there has not been one. My issue now lies with you claiming the feedback is melodramatic, which suggests it carries no weight. That too may be true but I respectively disagree that ALL feedback received here was not well-reasoned. No doubt, some of it is less than reasonable, but I think you skipped a few posts where reason prevailed.
I don't think (with a couple small exceptions) that the feedback was unprofessional. It might not have been easy to swallow, but not all criticism is.
Agreed. I don't think any of the feedback has been toxic by any stretch of the word either. (As mentioned previously.)
To Jordan and crew: We're your harshest critics because we're also your biggest fans. A surefire way to lose all semblance of credibility and professionalism is to bite not only the hand that feeds, but that also offers encouragement and feedback. Any person who attacks those willing to offer constructive criticism is both ignoring their faults, and losing the ability to ever improve upon them.
I'll leave this here, since we all seem to be in the quoting mood:
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." -- Winston Churchill
Toxic? Give me a break. If you think this approaches that level, you need to get out more on he Internet.
The site should be thankful that its readers are willing to offer feedback and criticism as well as providing a revenue stream for the owners. Sure beats losing eyeballs and not knowing why.
First of all, forum members are not representatives of the site and do not have to consider tone and public relations responsibilities. Within the bounds of the forum rules and guidelines, forum members are entitled to express themselves in any way they like.
Secondly, there are other channels for staff to express themselves in private in reaction to forum member's assessment of their contributions and work. If you need to vent, use them.
Finally, stooping to that level isn't addressing the substance of people's concerns; it's little more than insulting people by calling their posts 'histrionic'.
I don't know Jordan, have no bones to pick personally with him, am never here for long enough to read his posts, but on this rare occasion, when I look at Site and Forum Feedback and see this kind of response from a representative of the site towards forum members, it's a poor showing.
There have been many posts with reasonable criticism. I didn't feel like repeating everything when jav6454 already hit the head of the nail with his post. It was also a bit problematic to provide constructive feedback when we didn't know will the word travel to Jordan, but now it looks like it does.
In fact, I even sent Jordan an email with lot of feedback since he deleted the part of his post which I replied to.
No, I do agree - many posts DID offer solid criticism. However, there is a huge difference between offering up constructive criticism, and being an ass just to be an ass.
Isn't it nice that when the context is removed, one can make anything mean almost anything?
I suppose it also matters what one considered actual feedback and mindless noise. The fact that you lend weight to some of the quoted comments tells me all I need to know.
Exactly. Perfectly said.
I started reading MR in 2006 after purchasing my first iPod (5G with video
) and joined in 2008. I love this site; it's one of the first I check in the morning and one of the last I check before going to bed and one I check countless times during the day.
I agree. I also found The New Yorker bit to be simple, factual and to the point; very much the style I'm accustomed to getting from MR.
I am not a fan of the casual, opinionated style he, Jordan, chooses to write in at all and honestly would rather avoid his stories. Can there be a peer-review of these articles before they get published?
I am curious about this as well, is there a head editor, mainly Arn that looks over every story before they are posted or are the writers just free to post what they like?
Alright, since you mentioned not minding criticism, and since others feel we need more level-headed examples, I'll oblige:
I take issue with the bolded parts of your post. As a writer, you should be accustomed to using a thesaurus in order to rapidly interchange words to achieve the desired effect. Instead of using casual language, use professional vocabulary. Don't use cliches, idioms, or inappropriate synonyms. All professional writing should be in third person omniscient. Subjective assessments should be kept to a minimum.
Your paragraph above should have been written:
Adjusting to the more professional and journalistic atmosphere at MacRumors has been more difficult than originally anticipated. Through prior experiences, I have grown accustomed to a more casual writing style that I realize is not appropriate for a news site. Thank you for understanding.
I don't think anyone here is expecting you to be the next Dickens or Upton Sinclair. Just write a little more professionally and most of us will be happy. We expect MR's Front Page to read like a news site, because that's what it is. We are complaining because of late it hasn't read that way.
Forgive me, but you did volunteer for this position correct? If you didn't meet the standards of your audience, you should have a keen interest in figuring out why so that you can fulfill your responsibilities.
Honestly, leave the guy alone. Haven't you got better things to do, than go trualling though somebody's posts and picking out little words, which most of you are taking out of context.
Another thing, I don't care for the e-thugs on here, most of you are smerk thugs who think it's entertaining to be big and bad, and use a tone which is disgusting.
Not the fact that you're giving him criticism, but your tone about it.
Hail down to the elites who were here before 2011. For they are god, and they are the elites of MR.
I also know that a lot of people won't agree with me, but I don't care for someone who's going to reply to this, flame me, etc. Bring it on. Show your true colours.
Now put the post votes to good use, and -1 me like it's my birthday.
P.s (I think most of you are annoying as hell, and you think you're better than everybody else. )
Another thing, I don't care for the e-thugs on here, most of you are smerk thugs who think it's entertaining to be big and bad, and use a tone which is disgusting.
Not the fact that you're giving him criticism, but your tone about it.
Hail down to the elites who were here before 2011. For they are god, and they are the elites of MR.
I also know that a lot of people won't agree with me, but I don't care for someone who's going to reply to this, flame me, etc. Bring it on. Show your true colours.
Now put the post votes to good use, and -1 me like it's my birthday.
P.s (I think most of you are annoying as hell, and you think you're better than everybody else. )
What Will said.
As for picking apart his response in this thread, seriously? Now you're just splitting hairs and throwing a temper tantrum.
As for picking apart his response in this thread, seriously? Now you're just splitting hairs and throwing a temper tantrum.
Which, you seem not to have noted, was asked for by Arn and supposedly is appreciated by Jordan.
Got any examples?
Well, one thing's still certain, you can't buy class.
Interesting. You're camping the thread and automatically +1'd the -1 I gave you. Seems like someone cares a little more than they care to let on...
Nothing like a personal attack, or two, to hammer home your 'valid' point(s).
Which, you seem not to have noted, was asked for by Arn and supposedly is appreciated by Jordan.
Got any examples?
Well, one thing's still certain, you can't buy class.
Interesting. You're camping the thread and automatically +1'd the -1 I gave you. Seems like someone cares a little more than they care to let on...
Nothing like a personal attack, or two, to hammer home your 'valid' point(s).
Camping what thread? +1, -1, I really don't care for post rep, or whatever it is.
Believe it or not, not everybody agrees with you, it MAY be the fact that someone agreed with me. I know, amazing.