Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Why Apple Haters are taking over MR

rmwebs said:
A lot of it is not Apple haters, but complete idiots that blindly follow Apple like they are some kind of all powerful force. When someone comes into a thread and starts posting "Android sux, iOS is the best" or "Android is a rip off of iOS" its going to start an argument.
Click to expand...

Posts like that count as trolling. Report them and we will delete them and replies to them.

The sooner (no disrespect here) some of the lazy mods pull their finger out and ban these members or warn them, the sooner we can all carry on with sensible discussions. It should be possible to talk about apples competitors here without having some moronic kid shouting "Andoid Sux" every other post.
Click to expand...

Our laziness is not the problem. Right now there are zero open post reports. It would be far easier for us to just ban people who cause even a small bit of trouble, but that's not fair. We have set our policies and moderation is based on them. Of course, policies can be changed so we will reconsider our current policy and see if it can be improved.

The problem in trolling is that oftentimes it's borderline. We can't ban users because their opinion is extremely biased. Everyone is allowed to express their opinion, whether it's pro- or anti-Apple does not matter. Trolling is definitely one of the hardest cases because it's very subjective. If you're pro-Apple, then you will see anti-Apple posts as trolling, even though they were completely appropriate.

Either way, the problem is very quick and easy to fix, and its only MacRumors staff that can do it.
Click to expand...

Sure, fixing one problem is always easy but we have to think about the consequences as well. Moderation must be based on the Forum Rules and our policies, we can't just make up new rules and start banning people we don't like. If we ban this user because of something, then we have to apply that something to other users as well. In the end, we have to think is that something really a reason for banning. In this case, that something could be e.g. an extremely biased point of view.
 
Consultant said:
Paul Graham via Gruber:



Happening a lot with anything that mentions Android / iPhone.

As a long time Macrumors reader and more recently forum member, I am seeing more trolling happening in the past years. Perhaps MR needs to enforce the rude comment rule (perhaps calling someone fanboy = 1 warning then ban).

I've also seen examples of some users who are perpetual liars not being banned yet.
Click to expand...
Trolls are only effective if you get into a "debate" with them. I tend to take them for what they are and ignore them. Often easier said than done. If I feel someone is engaging me into a discussion I'll participate. It's impossible to win an argument in a forum like this one. It's really easy to flame someone with the protection of anonymity.
 
knuckelz said:
...I think being civil is rather easy. There is no need to resort to name calling. I think lively discussion is very interesting, but trolling (by any side) just dulls the overall experience. I find it very interesting to have non-apple users on here. They bring a different side to the discussion, and everyone benefits from seeing things from more than one perspective. Then again, I also find it easy to ignore people who do/say things just to get attention.
Click to expand...

^ This IMO is the right attitude. My only suggestion would be to report the posts you think are created for trolling purposes. Trolling is a pattern, and it's not always easy - for members or the moderators - to be certain when someone is stating a strong opinion in a not-very-diplomatic way, and when someone is only out to start an argument. It's often something that makes itself clear only over a period of time.

It's important to remember that it's fine to post about non-Apple devices and systems in the most appropriate thread, as long as the reason for posting is to have a constructive discussion. It's not so strange that Apple users who also use other devices and systems, and want to compare them with Apple products, are interested in the opinions of their fellow Apple users.

Sometimes I see members jumping in as soon as someone posts about another system, with posts like "Why are you here?" or "Why don't you post over at X forums?". As far as I'm concerned, those posts are off-topic and unhelpful. If you think a member is posting to annoy (= trolling), then report them. But don't respond with a comment that's just as likely to drag the conversation off the rails. It only creates more clean-up work for the moderators.

A while back we introduced Rules for Appropriate Debate. They're especially applicable in discussions where feelings and tempers run hot.
 
jabbawok said:
I wouldn't go on a Harley forum and go on about what a pile of pig-iron I think they are. It's just rude.
Click to expand...

This is the crux of it. It's not like this is a general forum where it's somehow 'fair' to have the the discussion be 50% apple and 50% android.

A better example would be a Harley enthusiast meetup (in person). Could you imagine being the ******** who shows up there just to walk around, talk **** about Harleys and tell everyone how their non-Harley bike is so much better?

Now, could you imagine hundreds of ********s doing the same thing?
 
decksnap said:
This is the crux of it. It's not like this is a general forum where it's somehow 'fair' to have the the discussion be 50% apple and 50% android.

A better example would be a Harley enthusiast meetup (in person). Could you imagine being the ******** who shows up there just to walk around, talk **** about Harleys and tell everyone how their non-Harley bike is so much better?

Now, could you imagine hundreds of ********s doing the same thing?
Click to expand...

I don't think these cases are strictly comparable, though. The user base of a Harley forum consists of middle aged adults, or at least that's what I would guess. However, our users are in their early to mid 20s on average I would say (I don't know if there are any statistics of this?). iPhone has brought a lot youngsters in here because it's very popular among teenagers (and even kids, around ~12). While being young doesn't necessarily mean you're not capable of having a legit debate (I just turned 18 myself), it's definitely more likely that you don't have the maturity it takes to admit you're wrong for instance. Or you fail to see that people have different needs and hence buy different devices.

Moreover, technology is for everyone. Everyone needs a phone and many people in the Western countries prefer a smartphone nowadays. How many have Harleys, though? This creates possibility for more people to participate forums like this, which adds the possibility of different views.

In the end, I think the problem is that oftentimes, people forget that these things are just freaking phones and whatnot. You didn't innovate them. Your dad didn't innovate them. They were innovated by faceless companies. Why defend them like they were your own babies?
 
Consultant said:
As mentioned before, I've already pointed out similar threads as these:

"Hi I'm a fourteen year old"
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=14027559#post14027559

"being a 13 year old"
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=14061895#post14061895

Surely those "facts" can't be confirmed thus those users could stay?
Click to expand...

I see nothing wrong in those threads. We require our users to be at least 13 years old (Registration Agreement), hence no rules have been violated. The questions the user asks are completely valid. The replies are also fine and most people seem to ignore his age.
 
Hellhammer said:
I don't think these cases are strictly comparable, though. The user base of a Harley forum consists of middle aged adults, or at least that's what I would guess. However, our users are in their early to mid 20s on average I would say (I don't know if there are any statistics of this?). iPhone has brought a lot youngsters in here because it's very popular among teenagers (and even kids, around ~12). While being young doesn't necessarily mean you're not capable of having a legit debate (I just turned 18 myself), it's definitely more likely that you don't have the maturity it takes to admit you're wrong for instance. Or you fail to see that people have different needs and hence buy different devices.
Click to expand...


Even though this does not reflect everyone on this board, I think it gives a good visual of the user base here on MacRumors, at least on the iPhone Forum (where most of the bickering seems to take place).

How old are you? - Poll
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1230345/
 
Hellhammer said:
Moreover, technology is for everyone. Everyone needs a phone and many people in the Western countries prefer a smartphone nowadays. How many have Harleys, though? This creates possibility for more people to participate forums like this, which adds the possibility of different views.
Click to expand...

I have no interest in talking with a spoiled, obnoxious 14 year old who is acting like a spoiled, obnoxious 14 year old. (Or with a 45 year old acting the same way, for that matter.) I'm not interested in their opinion on anything, from smartphones to cloud computing to international patent litigation.

And I'd guess that most sensible adults feel the same way.

Several long-term forum participants have remarked, in this thread, how a flood of Android-wielding children is making the discussion unpleasant. You may feel that "technology is for everyone" is enough of an answer. I would suggest that, for the long-term good of the community, it isn't.
 
My observation was that the older users may or may not necessarily be fans of iOS because they came here to discuss Macs first and foremost. That would include myself, since I have devices from every platform and don't particularly care one way or another.

Call me biased if you want, but I see far more derogatory and down right insulting posts directed at people that don't have iPhones or iPads or whatever, than the other way around - yes it definitely exists, and I'm sad to see that..

Why does it happen anyway? 14 year old dude.. your parents gave you a white iPhone for Christmas! Fantastic! I'm happy for you! If you have to go around talking about how crappy Android is, something's wrong with you.

Android user: Does it piss you off when people whine about how slow their Evo HD 4G XTREME took 0.2 seconds longer to open the Maps program than the iPhone 4S does? Yea... same here. I'm sick of it, however I'm here as a Mac guy. Whatever. lol I've seen enough similar posts about how Windows laptops explode after 6 months and get 10 viruses a day too. I guess you just gotta put up with it.

I know I haven't put up with it too well. :\
 
vrDrew said:
I have no interest in talking with a spoiled, obnoxious 14 year old who is acting like a spoiled, obnoxious 14 year old. (Or with a 45 year old acting the same way, for that matter.) I'm not interested in their opinion on anything, from smartphones to cloud computing to international patent litigation.

And I'd guess that most sensible adults feel the same way.
Click to expand...

Everyone is still entitled to post their own opinion. I doubt any of us would support censorship and allowing only certain opinions. Why is your opinion any better than the 14-year-old's opinion? Some users may dislike your opinions as well, but that doesn't mean we should start deleting your posts.

Several long-term forum participants have remarked, in this thread, how a flood of Android-wielding children is making the discussion unpleasant. You may feel that "technology is for everyone" is enough of an answer. I would suggest that, for the long-term good of the community, it isn't.
Click to expand...

The problem isn't only Android users like I have stated in this thread several times. There is nothing wrong in comparing Apple's devices to competitors' devices, as long as it's done in a proper way. We don't live in an Apple bubble, so there is no need to act that way.

Lets put it this way. What policy would you suggest? Any post that mentions a non-Apple device gets deleted? The best way to get things changed is to provide ways how we can improve moderation. Just saying "fix it" doesn't help much.
 
vrDrew said:
I have no interest in talking with a spoiled, obnoxious 14 year old who is acting like a spoiled, obnoxious 14 year old. (Or with a 45 year old acting the same way, for that matter.) I'm not interested in their opinion on anything, from smartphones to cloud computing to international patent litigation.

And I'd guess that most sensible adults feel the same way.
Click to expand...

You don't have to talk to them. As a 'sensible adult' why can't you simply choose to ignore them and move on to the next post in the thread? If you think they are breaking the rules report it and we will investigate. Don't engage in a series of tit-for-tat posts to try and prove them wrong because that only makes matters worse.

vrDrew said:
Several long-term forum participants have remarked, in this thread, how a flood of Android-wielding children is making the discussion unpleasant. You may feel that "technology is for everyone" is enough of an answer. I would suggest that, for the long-term good of the community, it isn't.
Click to expand...

Android fans are not the only problem. There are also a number of over-the-top Apple fans that upset just as many long-term forum participants with their posts. Should we also get rid of them for the long-term good of the community?

As already stated many times in this thread, this site isn't restricted to pro-Apple users and nor should it ever be.
 
What I think annoys most people is when there's a conversation going on about an Apple product and someone will come in and post why a non Apple product is better.

I think that's the most frustrating type of thing because if I'm talking about my iPhone I'm not looking for input about Android, unless I ask for it.

It works the other way too. I think we have to be mindful about what the conversation is about before throwing in our two cents.
 
This discussion never seems to end, and I think it's because the focus is off. The problem is trolling, not the flavour of the trolling. Trolling was, is, and unfortunately will continue to be a part of Internet forums.

Yes, it's annoying when someone jumps into a thread dedicated to a specific iPhone issue to say that Android's better. It's equally irritating when someone defends Apple products simply because they're Apple products. These kinds of comments are trolling. They are only intended to disrupt the discussion, and we're not interested in allowing that.

And - it's discouraging when someone tries to start a reasonable discussion about the merits of the two systems, only to have a "loyal" MR member jump in to say something like "Why are you even here?", or "This is an Apple-related forum :rolleyes:". It's a misguided loyalty IMO.

The solution is this simple:

  • If you see trolling, any kind of trolling, report it.
  • Before you report someone for comparing Apple products or system to those of another company, ask yourself this: is it really trolling, or are you just annoyed that someone brought up Android/Windows/whatever? If you feel it's trolling, please do report it. If it just annoys you, ignore the post - and don't take the thread off-topic by bashing the poster.

rocknblogger said:
What I think annoys most people is when there's a conversation going on about an Apple product and someone will come in and post why a non Apple product is better.

I think that's the most frustrating type of thing because if I'm talking about my iPhone I'm not looking for input about Android, unless I ask for it.

It works the other way too. I think we have to be mindful about what the conversation is about before throwing in our two cents.
Click to expand...

Yes. Yes. Yes.
 
Snip

annk said:
And - it's discouraging when someone tries to start a reasonable discussion about the merits of the two systems, only to have a "loyal" MR member jump in to say something like "Why are you even here?", or "This is an Apple-related forum :rolleyes:". It's a misguided loyalty IMO.
Click to expand...

annk as much as I respect you I must add here. And not in an apple fanboy way that Macrumors IS about all things Apple/Mac. I don't consider that being misguided. It's not. This is a Mac forum. The very name of the forum infers this.

If you guys want to broaden the reach and re-name this place everythingrumors.com then do so.

I've always thought of macrumors as a place about macs and IOS devices.

I understand people will always have conversations about the good or bad of other devices here but to say any person defending macs. iPhones etc is "misguided" is a bit over.

Just my opinion mind you.
:)
 
Defending is fine, Peace, if it's part of a real discussion. Any good discussion will include people who use both systems giving their pro and con experiences, and that's fine. Stating that you prefer Apple's system/product in a good discussion is normal behaviour, not trolling.

If I post a question asking about two systems because I as an Apple user am interested in other Apple users' experiences with that system, I expect members will tell me exactly why they prefer the system they do (= they'll defend their choice). That's what I want. I don't want someone to bash me in the thread for bringing it up at all.

If however someone jumps into a thread about an Apple product only to insist that another company's product is better, that's not ok. At best it's off-topic, and at worst it's trolling.

My point is that I feel the discussion veers off course. No one here wants trolling to be part of this site. But for some reason, it seems that as soon as the trolling involves Android, people lose perspective.

If an Apple user (and we'll assume that the members here are that) also uses devices or systems produced by other companies, and wants to discuss those, compare them to Apple, etc., there's no reason not to do it here. Personally, I am especially interested in what members on MR think about technology, and I'm guessing I'm not the only one.

My point is that the problem is trolling, period.
 
What are mods or admins opinion on thread like these

iphone 4S is faster than samsung galaxy S2
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1298659/

Were the intent is clearly to create a debate.


annk said:
If an Apple user (and we'll assume that the members here are that) also uses devices or systems produced by other companies, and wants to discuss those, compare them to Apple, etc., there's no reason not to do it here. Personally, I am especially interested in what members on MR think about technology, and I'm guessing I'm not the only one.

My point is that the problem is trolling, period.
Click to expand...

Should those discussions be directed to Community Discussion, or are you comfortable with those discussions being held under the iPhone or iPad sub-forum?
 
Since we don't discuss specific cases of moderation, commenting on specific posts is something I don't feel I can do. But I can address the issue on a general basis.

Stating anything as a blanket, unnuanced truth is not particularly constructive and is bound to irritate. There's nothing wrong with "creating a debate" as you put it, but you maybe meant "creating an argument", which of course isn't ok. Whether a poster intends to do the one or the other depends not only on how the post is worded, but what the poster meant. Some members aren't native English speakers, some members are quite young or immature and aren't good at wording their posts well, etc. And some members are trolls. Believe me, while the difference is sometimes obvious, it's often not. And that gives us headaches. :(

So what can you do when faced with a blanket statement? You can of course report it. If it seems like a clear-cut case of trolling, it SHOULD be reported. Even if the moderators decide to wait and keep an eye on a thread or a member, the post report becomes part of the over-all picture and does have an effect on any final decision. Believe me, post reports in cases of suspected trolling are a HUGE help. I know members often feel frustrated when they don't see an instant result, but please believe me on this.

You can also challenge a blanket statement with comments like "you're overlooking x", "is that based on your own experience?", or "that's not true if you take y into consideration". Then it's up to the person who made the statement to defend with facts, modify, explain, etc. If they don't, and the post is reported, the mods can delete the post or the thread. (This is the gist of the Rules for Appropriate Debate, just so you know I'm not making it up as I go along!)

Hope that was helpful. :eek: It's an important issue, and it's important to us that members feel we're all on the same side here.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot the second part of your question.

If the purpose of a thread is to compare - for example - a phone to the iPhone, it makes sense to have the thread in the iPhone forum. That's where you'll find the members whose opinions you're interested in. If the purpose is to discuss another system in general, and not to make a specific comparison to an Apple product or system, then it really depends on what the thread is about. It wouldn't need to go in a product- or system-specific forum. And good thread titles will make it easy for members to skip over threads they're not interested in. Really it's just common sense IMO.

Trolls of course will post where ever they think they can anger the most members!
 
Last edited:
saving107 said:
What are mods or admins opinion on thread like these

iphone 4S is faster than samsung galaxy S2
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1298659/

Were the intent is clearly to create a debate.




Should those discussions be directed to Community Discussion, or are you comfortable with those discussions being held under the iPhone or iPad sub-forum?
Click to expand...
Is a person who has a Macbook Pro, iPad/iPhone/iPod touch and wireless mouse and keyboard considered an Apple user if he uses a 24" Samsung monitor to hook up his Macbook Pro to? Or does he have to use ALL Apple products in his set-up?
 
Liquinn said:
Is a person who has a Macbook Pro, iPad/iPhone/iPod touch and wireless mouse and keyboard considered an Apple user if he uses a 24" Samsung monitor to hook up his Macbook Pro to? Or does he have to use ALL Apple products in his set-up?
Click to expand...

I think anyone with at least one Apple device is an Apple user. There is absolutely no reason to be 100% Apple, that can get a bit ridiculous actually.
 
I think this thread should be changed to "Why Spammers are taking over MR"
 

Attachments

  • mr.JPG
    mr.JPG
    109.5 KB · Views: 101
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back