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Why are Apple so slow at improving the camera?
- Thread starter ToddH
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I don't understand why we're even comparing a DSLR to the iPhone. They're not even in the same league. A pro photographer will use an iPhone as an everyday camera, but if they're using it as their main rig for the studio then I'd question their skills and ability.
Funny this seems typical around here, start spouting ad-hominems when you "lose" a debate.
I agree with the OP somewhat. I would like a better camera and think apple can do it, if they want to. their competitor has an awesome camera. though i don't think it will ever be close to a DSLR. simple manual controls would be nice for a photographer. the washed out & watercolor look on some photos never look great.
I've always thrown BS at the marketing gimmick they pull when they show the photos shot on iPhone commercials. I see myself as a decent photographer with knowledge of DSLR and have never been able to get stunning photos as they claim.
I've always thrown BS at the marketing gimmick they pull when they show the photos shot on iPhone commercials. I see myself as a decent photographer with knowledge of DSLR and have never been able to get stunning photos as they claim.
Actually, no. I earn my living with photography every day since 1997 and use CANON exclusively. I think I know a thing or two about pro photography. Your statement just happens to be complete BS.
I agree, there's a lot of people in this thread that are using technical terms way out of context and beyond their understanding of the technology. I'll also say that as an amateur photographer that uses both iPhones and Androids, the biggest factor BY FAR to producing quality images is the operator when using a top tier phone from either Apple or Samsung (and a few other manufacturers).
[doublepost=1472835831][/doublepost]I'd also like to add that I see a ton of people get worked up over the technical specs of something, but then walk around with a totally smudged up camera lens.
BS. I've been into photography since 1962 and while I'm not pro I know a thing or two about what makes a good photo. Just like you apparently. Canons have been notoriously panned for lots of sensor noise which makes post processing difficult. Granted they gotten better. But it is not a cakewalk the s7 is better then the iPhone 6s. Each do things well and each do things bad and it depends on what you value. So it matters not to me you're a "pro" your opinion is just like all others, as is mine.
Thank God you said this.
My dad has been a photographer since I can remember, and the first thing he told me after I struggled to take a good picture, was "the camera doesn't make good photos, you just have to practice until you know how to take good photos." When someone hands me their phone and asks me to take their picture, they are confused when I hand it back and say something similar to "I didn't know my phone could take that good of a picture." Of course, I'm not going to be the one to break the news and say operator error.
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That about sums up the debate.
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No one ever disputed that, this is very much the truth. But then the thread wasn't about that but about the camera specifically and as much as this pains you, Apple are lagging in that department and aren't even trying to catch up.
No one ever disputed that, this is very much the truth. But then the thread wasn't about that but about the camera specifically and as much as this pains you, Apple are lagging in that department and aren't even trying to catch up.
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So connect the dots man, connect the dots. Do I have to spoon feed it to you? (Hint I'm not)
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That's the point, they are lagging in some ways and ahead in others.
At least give @pixel_junkie a hint @I7guy
@pixel_junkie what does blown highlights, dynamic range, low light (performance) and noise, all have in common?
I never became a professional photographer, but based on the concepts of how a camera works, I think I could come up with a semi-educated answer based on what I learned from my dad.
Don't think about ISO, aperture, and shutter speed, think different®.
What Apple did to improve their camera had little to do with adjusting the range of the aperture, instead they focused on improving the imaging sensor and board, which the improvements made there were close to the same improvement they would have gotten with improving the aperture range. They probably decided to go that route because it took less time and money to implement it.
@pixel_junkie what does blown highlights, dynamic range, low light (performance) and noise, all have in common?
I never became a professional photographer, but based on the concepts of how a camera works, I think I could come up with a semi-educated answer based on what I learned from my dad.
Don't think about ISO, aperture, and shutter speed, think different®.
What Apple did to improve their camera had little to do with adjusting the range of the aperture, instead they focused on improving the imaging sensor and board, which the improvements made there were close to the same improvement they would have gotten with improving the aperture range. They probably decided to go that route because it took less time and money to implement it.
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can you please show me your portfolio since you're a pro?
I'm wondering whether or not you're no longer inspired to take photos is a function of your gear...or yourself.
I'm pretty sure a professional photographer wouldn't worry about how good a camera is on their phone, that's what their DSLR is for, and some of the die-hards still use film.
Heck, some people still use polaroid because they like the artistic touch it brings to their pictures. (at this point I'm blending the line between hobbyist and pros)
Only because Apple's the only one who makes iPhones. As far as exploding batteries, I've already seen that happen on the Nokia 3210 and 3310. Exploding batteries on laptops are even worse.Let's be fair Apple was the first to offer exploding battery iPhones.
I wouldn't say Apple are "slow" at upgrading the iPhone camera. The camera in the iPhone is one of the best! I would say that technology is constantly evolving, by the time the iPhone has updates the camera, there is already a new technology or advancement, Samsung did the S7 and Note 7 camera before the iPhone 7 this year, and I'm betting that the dual camera will be great. I bet that next year Samsung and a lot more companies will add dual camera.
Other than they are all functions of the sensor, nothing. Dynamic Rage and Noise are totally independent of each other and can be that (as is my case) one is ultra important for certain types of photography and the other is not at all.
I was thinking more broad, like external elements, not specifically the camera components. It all has to do with lighting, which you are correct in a way by naming the sensor. If you have particularly bad lighting you end up using a higher ISO which causes film grain.
Blown highlights -> lighting issues involving exposure
dynamic range -> lighting issues involving shadows and highlights
low light -> lighting issues which cause grain
noise -> directly caused by low lighting (lighting issues).
Breaking this down, all of those are lighting issues, and the point still remains that the biggest set-back that every manufacturer is trying to defeat is lighting issues. Samsung did it by increasing the aperture range as if it were a DSLR, Apple did it by directly modifying the sensor. Both have their pros and cons, but the outcome was a similar solution. I can't say whether adjusting the aperture range or modifying the sensor was a better solution, but with advancements in technology, Apple has already changed the way pictures are captured by adjusting the sensor. Is it really that important that the aperture range didn't change if it's already been accounted for? What happens if Apple adjusts the aperture range now? Would it possibly be better/worse than Samsung? Who knows.
Apple focuses on getting a good image no matter what light, their mindset is "Fix it so any person can take a good photo, no matter how they take it"
Samsung's mindset is "Give it the features of a full fledged DSLR so we get the pro users buying our phone."
At the end of the day, does it matter that Samsung has a phone with a .8 higher f-stop than the iPhone when almost everyone who uses it doesn't know how to take a good picture?
I don't know. Faster aperture also means more background blur or bokeh and everyone likes those shots with the blured background.
I wouldn't say that per se, I do agree that people do like the background blur as it brings out the subject in the photo, however, it's not like Samsung gave people a blow out the background button on their phone, so most people don't know how to take that kind of shot.
DSLR is good to go, Mobile cameras are still catching up with the basics. i.e. Just getting the photo to turn out evenly automatically, once they get past that I'm sure bokeh and macro buttons will start popping up on the screen before too long.
the effects you could get on 1.7 aperture cannot simply be replicated by using a better sensor.At least give @pixel_junkie a hint @I7guy
@pixel_junkie what does blown highlights, dynamic range, low light (performance) and noise, all have in common?
I never became a professional photographer, but based on the concepts of how a camera works, I think I could come up with a semi-educated answer based on what I learned from my dad.
Don't think about ISO, aperture, and shutter speed, think different®.
What Apple did to improve their camera had little to do with adjusting the range of the aperture, instead they focused on improving the imaging sensor and board, which the improvements made there were close to the same improvement they would have gotten with improving the aperture range. They probably decided to go that route because it took less time and money to implement it.
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bokeh is typically created by wide open apertures
I know how to get a bokeh effect, I also know a few other tricks, I know you can't get the effects by upgrading the sensor, but by modifying the sensor you are able to affect how the image is captured. So Samsung has a 1.7 aperture, how many people buying a Samsung even know what that means or better yet how to manipulate it in an artistic way.
The average person buying a new phone because of the camera is buying it sole-y on the resolution and it's ability to find balance between the highlights and the shadows. (even if they don't know what it's called) That's it.
If a professional photographer were buying a new phone, they'd buy one based on consumer reports and price. If a professional photographer wanted a better camera, they'd buy the latest top consumer report DSLR of their brand.
I'd laugh so hard at someone claimed to be a professional photographer and said I'm going with the Samsung because it has a higher aperture rating.
That to a real professional photographer is the equivalent of buying a big wheel to compete in the Tour-de-france.
Not arguing, but why WOULDNT a professional photographer worry about how good the camera is on their phone?
iPhones have become essential tools for some photographers on the job. Location shots using iPhone GPS for geo-tagging. Technical charts. Timers. Video. Large screens to review transferred photos. Same day edits. Social Media. Apps, Apps, Apps. And its all on a single device that fits in your pocket.
The most important thing to photographers is to capture a moment. Most of the time you plan on it and have the right gear with you. But many times you're standing there with a Prime lens and you need something else so having an iPhone at your side is invaluable. And many times that footage is use in the finished product.
I'm not sure why this thread has so many people that are trying to downplay the importance of "The very best camera Apple can create", OR why they are trying to draw a line between what Pros can do but everyone else cant. Because the point of the "complaining" is that Apple is very good with cameras, they've made some strategic acquisitions and they employ some of the most talented people out there. So if they could do better then, as consumers or pros or Apple fans, I see nothing wrong with wanting more.
Very best is a relative term with many trade-offs in-between and every manufacturer has to stop somewhere; either due to cost and/or time and/or software development. This is why when you go over these comparos with a critical eye, you can see what the strengths and weakness of each lens-sensor system is. It's no different in the DSLR world.
Complacent? If this is the thing you're rebelling against then you've got a simple life. Me, if I want a better camera I'll buy a better camera.
As for the iPhone I wish it did have a better camera, but what he's doing is saying that since on paper the Samsung is better then it takes better pictures, that's not accurate. First of all the megapixel war ruined point and shoot cameras. Even Samsung had to retreat away from the higher number pictures.
He's complaining about the proposed specs of a single camera on the iPhone 7 Plus when we all know that together the dual cameras will out perform the iPhone 7 camera.
Stop worrying about specs. Stop complaining that the iPhone isn't thin enough then complain that a bigger camera isn't installed. Any real photographer will know that the best camera is the one you have on you. If you want a better camera then go buy one.
If you want a better camera just wait a few days and get the iPhone 7 Plus. You asked, Apple delivered.
There is more to photography than small differences in focal ratio. The new iPhone may sport OIS, as well as a new Sony image sensor. The ADC on the image sensor and pixel size help combat noise. It is a newer back-illuminated sensor which Apple previously has not had.
"The Exmor R is a Sony's CMOS image sensor with significantly enhanced imaging characteristics including sensitivity and low noise by changing fundamental structure of Exmor-TM pixel adopted column parallel A/D converter to back-illuminated type"
https://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP...ts/IMX377CQT_ProductSummary_v1.5_20150414.pdf
This will bring Apple up on the Dxomark although, it is still a phone camera.
"The Exmor R is a Sony's CMOS image sensor with significantly enhanced imaging characteristics including sensitivity and low noise by changing fundamental structure of Exmor-TM pixel adopted column parallel A/D converter to back-illuminated type"
https://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP...ts/IMX377CQT_ProductSummary_v1.5_20150414.pdf
This will bring Apple up on the Dxomark although, it is still a phone camera.