Why are MBPs so over-priced?

[daflake]

Are there really lots of people out there who buy laptops and need to upgrade RAM or HDD at any point in that machine's lifetime?

I have... Also, what happens if you had an HDD failure after your warranty? You have to go to Apple and pay premium whereas I can go to the store, buy a drive, and pop it in. I'm still using and HP Envy that my daughter thought was destroyed (was a faulty HDD) and was easily and cheaply repaired.

Apple is working to force the consumer to come to them for all repairs. I think it is just a grab for more money sadly.

 

[maflynn]

Are there really lots of people out there who buy laptops and need to upgrade RAM or HDD at any point in that machine's lifetime?

I can't give you numbers but I can say that I have had that need, and desire.

 

[ascender]

I can't give you numbers but I can say that I have had that need, and desire.

But we're "special" on here and not representative of the vast majority of the Mac-buying public.
[doublepost=1495722156][/doublepost]

I have... Also, what happens if you had an HDD failure after your warranty? You have to go to Apple and pay premium whereas I can go to the store, buy a drive, and pop it in. I'm still using and HP Envy that my daughter thought was destroyed (was a faulty HDD) and was easily and cheaply repaired.

Apple is working to force the consumer to come to them for all repairs. I think it is just a grab for more money sadly.

But as I said above, we're not a normal bunch

I'd be happy to replace a HDD, but I'd wager that no matter how simple you made the replacement process, the vast majority of consumers who buy laptops and desktops of any sort would simply take it in to a store to be dealt with - be it Apple or their local repair shop.

I don't think its a grab for cash, its just that their vision for laptops (in terms of design, battery life and then the available space left) dictates how much space is available for components which in turn means they've moved to soldered SSDs and the like. Even with all the user guides on the web, explaining to non-techy relatives what they need to buy to fix a fault or do a simple upgrade can be absolutely torturous. And that's before you even get to fitting said part.

I still think part of the Mac's appeal is that there's a small range of products with limited upgrades at time of sale.

Maybe Apple's repair statistics also showed that it was such a small percentage of users who would do their own repairs and upgrades that there really was just a marginal market for them?

 

[jerryk]

Apple is a for profit company with super smart operations people. There prices are set properly for the products they produce, the top notch after sale service they provide, r and d expenses, etc.

 

[Stefan johansson]

From my point of view,the answer is clear,ever since I bought mine,I never ever had any issues related o the MBP itself,it just works completely normal all the time,which is something my win-10 laptop not always do.
Ok,the Mac cost me three or four times the money,and it's slower than the PC,but still,it does not crash,lag or cause unnecessary loss of work.

 

[Pangalactic]

Basically the same reason there are watches for $10,000 and cars for $300,000. Are they well-made pieces of technology? Sure! Are they worth the money? Not really.

Anyway, Apple realized that by positioning themselves as a think different/luxury/ubercool/hipster/futuristic company, they can charge whatever prices they want, the apple book for $300 being the prime example - it obviously cost them AT MOST $5 to produce.

Morale of the story? Marketing is everything, nail it - and you can sell anything at any price you ask.

 

[pmau]

The products are priced to generate a specific margin to cover all costs for the thousands of employees sitting at the new campus doing ... ah ... innovation and stuff.
To be honest, since 2012 Apple has only marginally updated their products, besides the Watch of course.
I have no clue what Apple is doing. But to me it looks like growing too big too fast.
Big companies can fail fast, once they have to downsize.
Apple uses lots of external infrastructure from Akamai and even Amazon.
I wonder if their investments in physical infrastructure really pays off.

I have the same concern with Google, because today everything has to offer a "Free Tier".
Running all of this datacenters without a real earning perspective.
I would loose sleep.

I know the iOS devices and penny pinching for iCloud storage and Music subscriptions makes tons of money.
But this can easily shift to other companies. Look at RIM, Nokia or even Sun Microsystems.
There was a period of time when these companies were incredibly successful.

Apple would be dead without high margins. And they know.
You can say what you want. They manged their business really smart when they are successful.

Managing change will reveal if they need some spring-cleaning.

 

[Colin8]

While they are very expensive, they're also amazing.

I had an XPS, which was £400 cheaper than this MBP, and I just didn't like it. Yuck. Sorry to its fans, but I just didn't like using it. I'm planning to keep this machine for 4 years, so I bought a MBP and my god, I love it. £100 a year for this satisfaction I get from using it daily is a no brainer. Was it bloody expensive? yep. But I love using it so much the price just doesn't bother me anymore. I've had this machine 3 months, and I still look forward to using it every day - the opposite of the Dell.

 

[daflake]

But as I said above, we're not a normal bunch

I'd be happy to replace a HDD, but I'd wager that no matter how simple you made the replacement process, the vast majority of consumers who buy laptops and desktops of any sort would simply take it in to a store to be dealt with - be it Apple or their local repair shop.

I don't think its a grab for cash, its just that their vision for laptops (in terms of design, battery life and then the available space left) dictates how much space is available for components which in turn means they've moved to soldered SSDs and the like. Even with all the user guides on the web, explaining to non-techy relatives what they need to buy to fix a fault or do a simple upgrade can be absolutely torturous. And that's before you even get to fitting said part.

I still think part of the Mac's appeal is that there's a small range of products with limited upgrades at time of sale.

Maybe Apple's repair statistics also showed that it was such a small percentage of users who would do their own repairs and upgrades that there really was just a marginal market for them?

Okay, so you are a special bunch who don't like to have options and the ablity to grow if needed? I doubt it is statistics, they want eveyone to bring back to them so they can make the money rather than some other small vendor.
I'm happy for you that you like your Mac, heck my wife likes hers as well. Me? Well, I am a tech and I like to have something a little less rigid to do my work so I will stick with my laptop and iPad.

 

[bjet767]

It's not so much that they're expensive, I have the money socked aside. The problem is they're awful value and overpriced now. I hope June 5 will turn everything around.

In your opinion, however, marketing proves you wrong.

Do you sit at Starbucks (or another premium coffee place) and work on your laptop while drinking 50 cents worth of product you paid $5.00 for? Is that can of Red Bull over priced? Why will people pay $2.00 for a 16 ounce bottle of water?

The market has spoken loud and clear about the pricing of these computers.

 

[pmau]

The market has spoken loud and clear about the pricing of these computers.

Yes. In addition if one compares all mac sales to iOS devices, it's easy to see that Apple can price them any way they like, because the money comes from iOS.
This is also why they are not updating frequently. They can simply let them stay on sale for years, increasing their margin even more. No updated logicboards, no new milling machines for nee form factors, etc.

My guess is the current MacBooks will be here for at least two years.

What will happen is a new 12" MacBook because of Microsoft, an iMac with USB-C and new iOS devices obviously. Especially iPads with OLED which still have no real use because of iOS limitations.

Then, under the radar, we will see a MacPro that is ridiculously expensive and will rely on custom GPU's and will only allow for RAM and Storage updates.

 

[Mr. Dee]

I purchased my first Mac in 2015, but I look at it as a long term investment. One of things I have noticed about users who own Macs, they rarely upgrade the one they have or purchase a new one. This is true of even the older generation PowerPC Macs. Users tend to care and keep them for a long time even when they reach vintage. I see persons on Facebook purchasing Macs as old as 2008 at a relative premium, either just to have one, use it for disc jockeying, or basic needs: email, web browsing, word processing.

Right now, a local business is selling a 600 MHz PowerBook G4 for $200, it doesn't even have a working battery or charger. I want to buy it, but I am negotiating for a cheaper rate. I am in the mood for nostalgia just to run some older release of OS X and Mac OS 9. The point is, this is an almost 20 year old computer and its still holding some value. Check Instagram and you see collections of Macs going back to the 90s that are still working.

The same is pretty much true for the Intel generation of Macs. I am sure, if you bought a maxed out 2016 or 2017 MacBook Pro, you are likely going to be able to keep using it in 2027. Operating systems have reached a level of mostly yearly refinements, sure, there will be some specific technology advancement, but the basic user interaction will be the same. Has commenting on the forums changed since Macrumors launched in 2000? Has word processing, spreadsheets, presentation graphics or web browsing changed that much? No.

Yes, there are demanding niche of users who will need powerful CPUs, RAM and graphics, but for the vast majority, owning a Mac is not necessarily about having the latest and greatest. Why do you think the MacBook Air continues to sell so well, so much is the case, there are rumors Apple is planning to give it a refresh next month.

 

[ZapNZs]

Are there really lots of people out there who buy laptops and need to upgrade RAM or HDD at any point in that machine's lifetime?

There were...now, not so much!

 

[TonyK]

Where to begin.

On Wednesday we sold our 2007 17" MBP with CoreDuo2 processor. It had 6GB of memory and a 500GB SSD that I installed. It still has a little life in it and will be good for what the buyer wants.

We sold that unit because my new system came in and is setup. Expensive, yes. But I expect it to last. I've owned Windows laptops in the past and while the Acer was top notch the Dell was not.

I'm looking to replace an aging MP that is showing its age even with all the updates to include SSD and more memory. More than likely I could remove 1/2 of the memory and be fine.

Over-priced is in the eye of the buyer. If you feel it is over-priced, don't buy it.

 

[JMacHack]

List of things I want in an OS:
1. Unix-like, the stability and safety of Unix is and will forever be better than anything Microsoft churns out, bar none.
2. Compatibility with Adobe Suite
These two things alone narrowed me to MacOS, especially after trying to use Windows 10 and being so disgusted with it.

And a little background: I used to use nothing but Dells, because they always gave great deals, and I always optioned out a machine that would be better spec'd and for less money than an equivalent MacBook Pro. I thought I was getting a deal, and being able to play games was a bonus! I was they typical "Macs are overpriced garbage for hipsters" guy.
And then after 3 years the laptop croaked, every time. Then I talked with the "Mac hipsters" and found out they were still using nearly decades-old Macs.

And then I bought a MacBook Air for an iOS development class, and adored it. This combined with my hatred of Windows 10, and knowing that 7 would eventually EoL, I made the switch. Frankly, MacOS made using the computer less of a pain in the ass. I also bought an iPhone after learning of the compatibility between them, and I can take calls and texts from my computer, seamlessly, and everything I have syncs automatically between my laptop and desktop.

So when I had to buy a laptop for a job/internship in January, I set my sights on the new MacBook Pro, 15", Radeon 455. And while I was weary of all the criticisms, I knew I had a month to return it so I leapt.

And you know what, I loved it too. The trackpad is so good that I don't have to use an external mouse (and kinda miss it on systems I have to use a mouse for), USB-C hasn't bothered me in the least, and I get great battery life, even though I have a lot of programs open all at once. I've even got use out of the TouchBar, enough so that I miss it while on my desktop.

Yeah, I would like to have user-replaceable parts, but going to a Windows-PC to do it would just be so much BS that I don't care to. And since Apple has the fastest SSD's on the market, and some of the best battery life, it doesn't really bother me.

As for the old tech argument, Kaby Lake has what, a few mHz improvement over Skylake? I'm not going to buy a machine solely on spec bench racing, I'm going to buy one that I'm comfortable using, that I don't have to **** with, and actually works with all of my devices.

 

[bjet767]

This is also why they are not updating frequently. They can simply let them stay on sale for years, increasing their margin even more. No updated logicboards, no new milling machines for nee form factors, etc.

A bit of a stretch.

The real reason for fewer updates is the old law, Moore's, is no longer valid from the hardware point of view. As far as OSX goes Apple has been updating it on a regular basis. My only real wish is a touch screen like MS has developed, for OSX.

 

[dogslobber]

Yes, but your hardware is still out of date and you have no ability to upgrade anything. It's like buying a 2015 car at full price in 2017.

You guys go on about security over and over, but I haven't had a virus or malware in years running Windows. I don't install crapware and I have a good AV program running (Kaspersky) that keeps it running smoothly. No problems at all. I haven't had to re-install my OS since the XP days as Win 7 and 10 have been running great.

The only thing I like more in apple than windows are the trackpads but I tend to use an external mouse anyway so it isn't that big of a deal.

Again, I love Mac OS, but the hardware really has slipped over the years in my opinion.

You sound like a techie but techies don't create mass markets. The people Apple is targeting don't really seem that concerned about having the latest widget from Intel in their Macs. They're more interested in seeing regular updates to show Apple still cares. In truth, I couldn't tell you which processor I have in my MBP as it doesn't matter and I don't care as it's "fast enough".

Security is another concern. Again, you sound like a techie who knows what they're doing but most people who use a Mac are more interested in using the system and not being bothered with running virus programs or doing malware scans. Why is this even a user problem in the OS? In what upside down world do we arrive at a situation that the user has to be the one cognizant of viruses and all that nonsense? Unfortunately somewhere along the years, the mindset that you must run virus software to stay safe has become part of the user mindset. That's just plain wrong. Why should a user be burdened with security? It's an OS problem so fix it OS company. Don't make it my problem because that's just the wrong answer and I don't want to hear excuses it should be my problem as I don't care. Fix it already.

That's the bottom line. Windows will always be tainted as a virus and malware inflicted monstrosity. I would never enter my bank account details in a Windows computer because security is MY problem. Apple deals with it and doesn't make it my problem. That's the correct way.
[doublepost=1495762221][/doublepost]

In your opinion, however, marketing proves you wrong.

Do you sit at Starbucks (or another premium coffee place) and work on your laptop while drinking 50 cents worth of product you paid $5.00 for? Is that can of Red Bull over priced? Why will people pay $2.00 for a 16 ounce bottle of water?

The market has spoken loud and clear about the pricing of these computers.

Needs V Wants. Buying anything in starbucks is a foolish proposition as you're a poser for doing it. Buying a 2$ bottle of water is all about the situation. E.g. a 2$ bottle of water gate side at the airport is a bargain but a starbucks coffee is still way over priced.

 

[daflake]

You sound like a techie but techies don't create mass markets. The people Apple is targeting don't really seem that concerned about having the latest widget from Intel in their Macs. They're more interested in seeing regular updates to show Apple still cares. In truth, I couldn't tell you which processor I have in my MBP as it doesn't matter and I don't care as it's "fast enough".

Security is another concern. Again, you sound like a techie who knows what they're doing but most people who use a Mac are more interested in using the system and not being bothered with running virus programs or doing malware scans. Why is this even a user problem in the OS? In what upside down world do we arrive at a situation that the user has to be the one cognizant of viruses and all that nonsense? Unfortunately somewhere along the years, the mindset that you must run virus software to stay safe has become part of the user mindset. That's just plain wrong. Why should a user be burdened with security? It's an OS problem so fix it OS company. Don't make it my problem because that's just the wrong answer and I don't want to hear excuses it should be my problem as I don't care. Fix it already.

That's the bottom line. Windows will always be tainted as a virus and malware inflicted monstrosity. I would never enter my bank account details in a Windows computer because security is MY problem. Apple deals with it and doesn't make it my problem. That's the correct way.
[doublepost=1495762221][/doublepost]

First, the above is your opinion. It has come a long way from those days and I am not sure if you are aware, but MS has been aggressively patching their systems since Win10 by not leaving it up to the consumer. So no, it isn't YOUR problem.

Secondly, I am a consumer just like you and have Windows, a Mac and several Linux boxes at home. Yes, I am a techie, but I am also a consumer. My problem is that the cost of a Mac (good for e-mail and web surfing) is as much as a solid gaming rig on the Windows/Linux side. So, it still leaves the original question unanswered.

My guess is that Apple gets you to pay for that premium service they offer as well as any loss they have by offering our of warranty repairs and replacements by hiking their prices. They did a great job of creating a cult and that cult was/is willing to pay whatever price they put on a computer to have the latest and greatest.

Again, I am in that mix as well as I have iPhones, ATV and I still have my 2008 Macbook as well as a newer one, so I am in that group as well. That being said, I am posting this from my trusty HP Envy running Windows 10.

 

[AgentAnonymous]

Where to begin.

On Wednesday we sold our 2007 17" MBP with CoreDuo2 processor. It had 6GB of memory and a 500GB SSD that I installed. It still has a little life in it and will be good for what the buyer wants.

We sold that unit because my new system came in and is setup. Expensive, yes. But I expect it to last. I've owned Windows laptops in the past and while the Acer was top notch the Dell was not.

I'm looking to replace an aging MP that is showing its age even with all the updates to include SSD and more memory. More than likely I could remove 1/2 of the memory and be fine.

Over-priced is in the eye of the buyer. If you feel it is over-priced, don't buy it.

Who are you trying to convince? Us or yourself? I like macs too, but that's a long wall of text to try to rationalize buying heavily overpriced products.
[doublepost=1495776834][/doublepost]

A bit of a stretch.

The real reason for fewer updates is the old law, Moore's, is no longer valid from the hardware point of view. As far as OSX goes Apple has been updating it on a regular basis. My only real wish is a touch screen like MS has developed, for OSX.

No. That would be terrible. Trying to put a touch UI and a keyboard UI into one OS is the primary reason Windows 8 and Windows 10 are horrible.
[doublepost=1495777539][/doublepost]

In truth, I couldn't tell you which processor I have in my MBP as it doesn't matter and I don't care as it's "fast enough".

What kind of point is this supposed to be? Just because you spend your money without knowing what you're buying doesn't mean others should. Knowing the processor is a basic part of understanding if you're getting value for your purchase. Apple does not always have your interests in mind (putting underpowered 5w tablet processors in their 12 inch macbook for example).

 

[bjet767]

Buying anything in starbucks is a foolish proposition as you're a poser for doing it.

Trying to put a touch UI and a keyboard UI into one OS is the primary reason Windows 8 and Windows 10 are horrible.

Both of you are just stating your opinions and quite frankly the market again seems to ignore them. Neither Starbucks or Microsoft are suffering or failing because of your differences. There's a world of "posers" and really "techie" people who love to sit and use their high-end Windows Surface machines producing product while sipping on their fancy cup of Joe.

Do you really think Jobs or Gates was trying to keep the minority happy or was it about something else!

 

[greenmeanie]

Same reason a car cost 20K not to long ago now they are 40K.
I use to be able to work on my cars now I can't.

Macs have always been pricey, but now they're just over-priced.

Three thousand dollars. That is what I paid for my 17" ages ago. Not only that, now you need to spend about 100 dollars in dongles/adapters and/or $200 in a docking station.

You can't upgrade the RAM or SSD because it's not removable, so to future proof yourself you have to max yourself out, or get external drives which = more money. Furthermore they charge a premium in upgrades. To upgrade from 500GB to 1TB Apple charges $400. Dell's XPS 15" is a $200 charge ... and Dell is using Kaby Lakes processor.

I just bought my mom a replacement for her 2006 Mac mini (which still runs!). I wanted to get a new mini but I couldn't justify $849 just to get decent amount of soldered in RAM on a 3 year old machine. I bought an Acer - my first PC in 11 years. A sad day indeed.

It's not so much that they're expensive, I have the money socked aside. The problem is they're awful value and overpriced now. I hope June 5 will turn everything around.

 

[cynics]

I don't feel they are that overpriced to be honest. If you are able to find a Windows laptop with equal build quality and minimal compromise even on the small stuff (noise, glare, etc) you'll be paying quite a lot as well.

I was tempted by Razor a while back but would gladly pay the bit of a premium for MacOS.

 

[TonyK]

Who are you trying to convince? Us or yourself? I like macs too, but that's a long wall of text to try to rationalize buying heavily overpriced products.

Convince? No one. What I wrote was a reply to the OP who started this darn thread. We each have our reasons for what we buy, or don't, and I answer only to my wife and myself.

Again, "...heavily overpriced..." is in the eye of the purchaser.

 

[pika2000]

Macs have always been pricey, but now they're just over-priced.

Three thousand dollars. That is what I paid for my 17" ages ago. Not only that, now you need to spend about 100 dollars in dongles/adapters and/or $200 in a docking station.

You can't upgrade the RAM or SSD because it's not removable, so to future proof yourself you have to max yourself out, or get external drives which = more money. Furthermore they charge a premium in upgrades. To upgrade from 500GB to 1TB Apple charges $400. Dell's XPS 15" is a $200 charge ... and Dell is using Kaby Lakes processor.

I just bought my mom a replacement for her 2006 Mac mini (which still runs!). I wanted to get a new mini but I couldn't justify $849 just to get decent amount of soldered in RAM on a 3 year old machine. I bought an Acer - my first PC in 11 years. A sad day indeed.

It's not so much that they're expensive, I have the money socked aside. The problem is they're awful value and overpriced now. I hope June 5 will turn everything around.

Then buy a Dell, or an Acer. Nothing to cry about. :shrug: It's your money, spend it wisely.

 

[richinaus]

In your opinion, however, marketing proves you wrong.

Do you sit at Starbucks (or another premium coffee place) and work on your laptop while drinking 50 cents worth of product you paid $5.00 for? Is that can of Red Bull over priced? Why will people pay $2.00 for a 16 ounce bottle of water?

The market has spoken loud and clear about the pricing of these computers.

sorry, just struggling with the word 'premium' in the same sentence as Starbucks

However, you are right - if they are overpriced [which I don't believe they are] then no one would buy them. Apparently they sell a lot of notebooks, so the pricing is fine, although I feel they are at the upper limit.