Why are MBPs so over-priced?

[TonyK]

Fully agree.. Apple Care+ is a must buy with the new machines. One item fails and the entire computer is done!

The cost of Apple Care+ should be factored in to any Macbook / Pro purchase as buying without it, on these new machines, is dangerous..

Really? This has been true for a very long time and for nearly all manufacturers of electronics. In fact, this is the norm now given our recent experience with a Samsung refrigerator. Started acting up just short of 3 years old. About 3 months later we had an extended warranty buy out and have now purchased a new refrigerator, but not Samsung.

My wife's Dell laptop (2003/2004 timeframe) developed a problem. Her extended warranty included in-home service but Dell kept trying to get her to disassemble her laptop. Does not matter her visual issues, she is legally blind. What matters is Dell sold an extended warranty and then had to be pushed into honoring it... sort of. When they finally made the in-home service call they replaced her failing screen with a used and BLURRY screen. Made the laptop unusable for her after that.

Now look at what Apple did in 2008 or so. Her 30" Cinema monitor was going bad. There were 2 weeks left on the Apple Care. The local store had me bring it in, put a rush on it and she had it back a week later. The only original part was the case. Apple had replaced all of the guts of that monitor with the HD version. That monitor is still used daily by myself and going strong.

Anymore one needs to consider the cost of potential repairs vs the cost savings of NOT buying an extended warranty. Buying an extended warranty on something I can easily replace doesn't make financial sense. Buying an extended warranty on major appliances or expensive electronics though does make sense, at least to us it makes sense.

Apple charges some much because people pay that much. Haven't you seen the obsessive panting and breathless fans nearly fainting every time a device gets released in Cupertino? Prices come down when demand does..

Oh jeeze. Did you stand in line at midnight to purchase Windows 95? I did. Not sure I would do it again. Have also stood in early morning lines to get an iPad because it was an impulse thing and a weekend.

People do crazy things. Look at the people panting over Black Friday and Thanksgiving Day sales which are usually not that great of value.

Apple has a perceived quality which it has earned through the years. This comes from an active Apple hater until an iPod Mini changed our minds. Our dislike of Apple came from personal experience with an Apple IIe and a bad hard drive and later with Apple Writer which ate many hours of my wife's work.

But the iPod Mini got us to look at Apple again. When Microsoft and Windows were becoming junk and horrible to use, we looked at the current state of Apple computers and started down the road with a PowerMac G5. We've purchased other products through the years and have generally been happy. The original AppleTV, no. Sold it after a couple of years and haven't gone back.

Apple does some dumb things, they also do some smart things.

 

[raqball]

Yes really......

Sure you and others can offer up bad experiences with other companies BUT a 15 second search of this board will show that in plenty of instances Apple is no different whatsoever.. While you may have never had an issues with Apple plenty of others have...

Aside from that, yes an extended warranty is almost required with the new Macbook Pro's.. They are non repairable at every level. An SSD failure means it goes in the trash. If some are comfortable paying $2K for a machine and have it tossed in the trash 13 months later if they suffer an SSD failure then cool as it's their money..

I do agree other PC should be treated the same and the decision to buy an extended warranty should be based on the machines repairability... In my case the X1 Carbon I bought is very repairable by users and or professionals. I still went with an extended warranty just for piece of mind.

 

[spac3duck]

Remember there is a difference between pricey and overpriced.

Obviously it's subjective, but where and how do you draw the line between Apple's products being pricey and overpriced? E.g. what is offered by Apple that is currently undervalued, at the right value and overvalued?
[doublepost=1496095640][/doublepost]

Are they overpriced? Yup!

I just custom ordered a Lenovo X1 Carbon (2017) for $1576... Here are the specs:

• Processor : Intel Core i5-7300U Processor (3MB Cache, up to 3.50 GHz)
• Hard Drive : 512 GB Solid State Drive, PCIe-NVMe OPAL2.0
  
• Memory : 16GB LPDDR3 1866
  
• Operating System : Windows 10 Pro 64
• Display : 14.0" FHD (1920x1080) IPS Anti-Glare Non-Touch
• Graphics : Intel HD Graphics 620
• Body Color : Silver
• Keyboard : ThinkPad Backlit Keyboard English with Finger Print Reader and C-cover, Silver
• Security Features : Integrated Fingerprint Reader
• TPM Setting : Hardware dTPM2.0 Enabled
• Camera : 720p HD Camera with MIC
• Pointing Device : UltraNav (TrackPoint and ClickPad)
• Battery : 3cell Battery 57Wh
• Wireless : Intel Dual Band Wireless AC(2x2) 8265, Bluetooth Version 4
• Integrated Mobile Broadband : Qualcomm Snapdragon X7 LTE-A (Sierra Wireless EM7455)
• Integrated Wireless Antenna : WLAN+WWAN antenna

Now compare that to the new Macbook Pro machine with similar specs.. The Macbook Pro with 16GB RAM and a 512 GB SSD... $2300.00

• 3.1GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor, Turbo Boost up to 3.5GHz
• 16GB 2133MHz memory
• 512GB PCIe-based SSD
• Intel Iris Graphics 550

So lets round up the price on the X1 and say it cost me $1600... A similarly equipped Pro (with a 6th gen CPU and GPU) is $2300 or $700 more!

If you don't find that to be overpriced then there is nothing I can really say to convince you.. Oh and BTW... The port selection on the X1 flat out demolishes the Pro, I have LTE in my X1 and it's has what's probably the best KB on the planet..

My .02

Who cares!

The majority of people already know that Apple products attract a premium price. Furthermore, the majority are not going to notice the difference if they were to use your 'amazing value' machine vs their Apple product because of their everyday use not exceeding the current capabilities of the machine. Value comes in many forms and it doesn't have to be based on 'like for like' hardware specifications.

So why do you care so much if they are happy to spend their money on something they value?

 

[raqball]

Who cares!

So why do you care so much if they are happy to spend their money on something they value?

I don't.... I was responding to the OP's question and discussion. You know, it's what civilized people do?

People can spend their money how they choose. Some would buy an Apple rock if it had an Apple logo on it and Tim Cook told them it was the best rock ever...

But yes they would notice a difference using my 'amazing value' machine... It has every port you'd ever need, LTE and a different OS.... LOL

The point of the thread I believe is to discuss why Apple products are priced so much higher than the competition. If you don't have anything to add other than silly comments like "Who cares" then maybe the same remark can be posted re: your response?

 

[spac3duck]

The point of the thread I believe is to discuss why Apple products are priced so much higher than the competition.

Exactly my point.

Starting a pissing contest over who has better 'specifications' for $1567 is not discussing the underlying reasons why people perceive the MBP's as being overpriced.

 

[raqball]

Exactly my point.

Starting a pissing contest over who has better 'specifications' for $1567 is not discussing the underlying reasons why people perceive the MBP's as being overpriced.

Sure it is.... It shows a comparison -v- price to others in the market.. The Macbooks are made better argument is pretty much gone these days as there are several Windows machines with similar build..

Take the new Surface Laptop for instance... Same specs as the Macbook Pro, similar and maybe even better build quality (TBD) and yet it's $200 less....

 

[spac3duck]

Your price comparison lacks substance, especially with regards to factoring in additional considerations such as depreciation, resale value, maintenance, education rates, currency and tax deductions just to name a few.

Furthermore, to compare spec for spec at certain price points is just inflaming the age old, and unfortunately ad nauseam debate, about how expensive Apple price their products.

Some companies focus on maintaining a price and improving the quality of the item. Others choose to compete in the cut throat market of lowering prices.

Apple clearly think they still hold a lot of value in their products hence their strict pricing policies. What positive reasons do you think that could be?

 

[raqball]

Your price comparison lacks substance, especially with regards to factoring in additional considerations such as depreciation, resale value, maintenance, education rates, currency and tax deductions just to name a few.

Furthermore, to compare spec for spec at certain price points is just inflaming the age old, and unfortunately ad nauseam debate, about how expensive Apple price their products.

Some companies focus on maintaining a price and improving the quality of the item. Others choose to compete in the cut throat market of lowering prices.

Apple clearly think they still hold a lot of value in their products hence their strict pricing policies. What positive reasons do you think that could be?

Depreciation and resale? You mean like the new Macbook Pro's that can't even sell for $1200 when they are BNIB on swappa? And that was even a mere month after release.. LOL! The Macbook's no longer hold any more value than it's competitors do..

Your argument does not hold any water... It is typical however.. You discard spec -v- spec comparsion as 'ad nauseam' yet you offer nothing all to the discussion as to why Macbook's should be priced so much higher than the competition..

Specs? Either a draw or the competition wins
Price? The competition wins -- easily!
Build? In many cases it's a draw
Support? In my case Lenovo smokes Apple as I have onsite repair. In other computer cases Apple wins here.

So what's the reasoning for paying the Apple premium if all other things are either equal or the competition wins? MacOS? With that I'd agree if the premium paid was reasonable..

 

[spac3duck]

So that would be a no, you can't think past the ticket price in your ongoing quest to prove (what has always been the shown years ago) that Apple is more expensive than their competitors.

The thread question is "why" are they priced at that level, as opposed to searching for confirmation that they "are".

Apple clearly think they still hold a lot of value in their products hence their strict pricing policies. What positive reasons do you think that could be?

 

[raqball]

Apple clearly think they still hold a lot of value in their products hence their strict pricing policies. What positive reasons do you think that could be?

Apple does not have strict pricing policies.. They offer EDU and Military discounts and resellers like B&H had them marked $200 off a week after launch.. Where do you get the idea that Apple has 'strict pricing policies'???

Anyways, the horse has been beaten and needs a rest.. For me, and as evident by the disdain seen here and elsewhere, others are moving on from Mac's as well... I won't say I'll never be back to a Mac but they'd need to do a 180 in order for that to happen...

 

[spac3duck]

You discard spec -v- spec comparsion as 'ad nauseam' yet you offer nothing all to the discussion as to why Macbook's should be priced so much higher than the competition..

Actually, I was discussing the merits of why Apple’s products should be priced much higher than the competition in this very forum last week. Yet again, your lack of research is evident.

Price? The competition wins -- easily!

At ticket price, sure. Hard to say once you apply some thought into other cost factors.

Apple does not have strict pricing policies.. They offer EDU and Military discounts and resellers like B&H had them marked $200 off a week after launch.. Where do you get the idea that Apple has 'strict pricing policies'???

Because the world is a bigger place than just America, I spent four years in retail selling them and you are here complaining about their overpricing.

I won't say I'll never be back to a Mac but they'd need to do a 180 in order for that to happen...

If you're looking for validation that your purchase of a cheap laptop was the right choice? Try here.

 

[raqball]

If you're looking for validation that your purchase of a cheap laptop was the right choice? Try here.

So last time... What makes the Macbook worth it's rather high premium over a similar spec and similar build machine made by someone else?

 

[Sterkenburg]

What makes the Macbook worth it's rather high premium over a similar spec and similar build machine made by someone else?

Let's see, off the top of my head:

- A full-fledged UNIX OS with a great GUI (more polished and feature-rich than any Linux distribution)
- Top build quality and reliability (QC issues and failures do exist, but that's the case for any maker)
- Best looking screen and best sounding speakers of its category
- Best keyboard and trackpad (yes, I actually like the controversial new keyboard)
- Ability to run both Windows and macOS without any hacks
- Great customer service that has never let me down so far
- Full integration with all my Apple devices

These "intangible" assets might not make the technical spec sheet look more impressive, but add so much to my user experience that they end up being just as important as having a powerful hardware. I'm not saying that one can't get all of this from other vendors, but MBPs are still, in my experience, the only laptops that tick all the above points at the same time.

About the specs and hardware: the missing things I would be very happy to see in the MBP lineup are a 32GB RAM option (great for people who work in science, deal with big datasets or run multiple VMs) and a decent Nvidia graphics card (great for people who use CUDA). I agree that the absence of those options sucks.

At the end of the day, macOS alone seals the deal for me: I prefer (and often really need) to work on a UNIX system, and there isn't any Linux distribution which hasn't given me endless headaches trying to get it to run without hiccups on a laptop. I need my computer to "just work" and help me get my job done rather than getting in my way, and macOS offers me just that. Even for personal stuff, it's a joy to use compared to any other OS. Taken together with the other points mentioned above, it's worth the Apple premium in my book.

That said, it's undeniable that the competition has gotten much better in recent years (which is a only a good thing in my opinion), so if you are not hooked to the Apple ecosystem (and/or you are just fine with using Windows) I agree that MBPs are just one of the many valid options on the table.

 

[AgentAnonymous]

Obviously it's subjective, but where and how do you draw the line between Apple's products being pricey and overpriced? E.g. what is offered by Apple that is currently undervalued, at the right value and overvalued?
[doublepost=1496095640][/doublepost]
Who cares!

The majority of people already know that Apple products attract a premium price. Furthermore, the majority are not going to notice the difference if they were to use your 'amazing value' machine vs their Apple product because of their everyday use not exceeding the current capabilities of the machine. Value comes in many forms and it doesn't have to be based on 'like for like' hardware specifications.

So why do you care so much if they are happy to spend their money on something they value?

Who cares? Plenty of people do. He made an objective economic value based argument. It's quite clear you spent 3000 dollars on an underperforming Macbook Pro which is why that upsets you.
[doublepost=1496124115][/doublepost]

Let's see, off the top of my head:
Top build quality and reliability (QC issues and failures do exist, but that's the case for any maker)
.

Phones that bend in your pocket and laptops they have to launch replacement programs for because the screen film comes off is what we call Top Build Quality nowadays.

 

[mmomega]

People just make the damndest choices when it comes to buying things and it's borderline insanity some times.

 

[spac3duck]

So you’re actually here to laugh at the reasons other people, including myself earlier in this thread if you bothered to look for them, have suggested they believe Apple products are valued appropriately? And if they don’t fit into your narrow focus on the price ticket against spec sheet, they must be 'absurd'. In your mind there are literally no other reasons, other than how much you spend, which dictates the value of an item to a person.

I’m sorry to hear you’re offended by my comment that you spend your time in these forums because you are looking for validation of your cheap laptop because I don’t know how to break the news to you:

An Apple MBP priced at $3000 is Expensive
A Lenovo X1 priced at $1567 is Cheap

That’s your one, and only, argument proposed over two lines. You can’t handle the thought of someone calling your laptop cheap compared to a MBP and rightly so. That’s because there is more to comparing apples to apples than price and specs.

 

[JackieInCo]

Fully agree.. Apple Care+ is a must buy with the new machines. One item fails and the entire computer is done!

The cost of Apple Care+ should be factored in to any Macbook / Pro purchase as buying without it, on these new machines, is dangerous..

I have never bought Apple Care for any Apple computer I have owned since I bought my first MBP in 2007.

I skipped it on everything including my 2015 MBP and my 2012 MBP, both of these I bought new in June 2015. Both still work perfectly. I also have a 2012 Mac Mini that is still running perfectly today and I skipped AC on it as well.

I think it's a worthless expense and Apple counts on their machines not needing repairs to boost their profits. Extended warranties are intended for this purpose by any manufacturer included car manufacturers.

I've also never bought it for any iPhone since 2007. I did buy AC+ for my three Apple watches I bought in March simply because it was so cheap for each one and given the way watches are worn and used.

Two MacBooks I owned had battery problems long after the warranty would have expired if I bought AC. 2010 MaCbook battery swelled pushing up through the top case making the laptop unusable. The other, a 2008 MacBook had a swelled battery as well but I never replaced it since it was removable.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I have never bought Apple Care for any Apple computer I have owned since I bought my first MBP in 2007.

I skipped it on everything including my 2015 MBP and my 2012 MBP, both of these I bought new in June 2015. Both still work perfectly. I also have a 2012 Mac Mini that is still running perfectly today and I skipped AC on it as well.

I think it's a worthless expense and Apple counts on their machines not needing repairs to boost their profits. Extended warranties are intended for this purpose by any manufacturer included car manufacturers.

I've also never bought it for any iPhone since 2007. I did buy AC+ for my three Apple watches I bought in March simply because it was so cheap for each one and given the way watches are worn and used.

Two MacBooks I owned had battery problems long after the warranty would have expired if I bought AC. 2010 MaCbook battery swelled pushing up through the top case making the laptop unusable. The other, a 2008 MacBook had a swelled battery as well but I never replaced it since it was removable.

I quite agree I have never bought any extended warranty Apple or any other electrical consumer goods but there is a noticeable shift in repair costs for the new MBP and rMB. This makes the option more value as almost any single repair will cost more than the price AppleCare where before other than a logic board failure the delta was marginal
[doublepost=1496139236][/doublepost]

Let's see, off the top of my head:

- A full-fledged UNIX OS with a great GUI (more polished and feature-rich than any Linux distribution)
- Top build quality and reliability (QC issues and failures do exist, but that's the case for any maker)
- Best looking screen and best sounding speakers of its category
- Best keyboard and trackpad (yes, I actually like the controversial new keyboard)
- Ability to run both Windows and macOS without any hacks
- Great customer service that has never let me down so far
- Full integration with all my Apple devices

These "intangible" assets might not make the technical spec sheet look more impressive, but add so much to my user experience that they end up being just as important as having a powerful hardware. I'm not saying that one can't get all of this from other vendors, but MBPs are still, in my experience, the only laptops that tick all the above points at the same time.

About the specs and hardware: the missing things I would be very happy to see in the MBP lineup are a 32GB RAM option (great for people who work in science, deal with big datasets or run multiple VMs) and a decent Nvidia graphics card (great for people who use CUDA). I agree that the absence of those options sucks.

At the end of the day, macOS alone seals the deal for me: I prefer (and often really need) to work on a UNIX system, and there isn't any Linux distribution which hasn't given me endless headaches trying to get it to run without hiccups on a laptop. I need my computer to "just work" and help me get my job done rather than getting in my way, and macOS offers me just that. Even for personal stuff, it's a joy to use compared to any other OS. Taken together with the other points mentioned above, it's worth the Apple premium in my book.

That said, it's undeniable that the competition has gotten much better in recent years (which is a only a good thing in my opinion), so if you are not hooked to the Apple ecosystem (and/or you are just fine with using Windows) I agree that MBPs are just one of the many valid options on the table.

Whilst I like your little list a little too subjective for my liking but yes trackpads have only recently been equalled (ignoring OS gesture support) and the speakers are suppose to be good

I always consider the cross integration almost meaningless for just being able to here your phone ring on your mac ipad as any other feature is equally available if you so wish, but maybe not natively

Of course to get the full benefit of the most extensive selection of software you have pay an additional premium on top of your Mac to run windows adding to the cost

As I noted previously you have to equally note the potential especially with 2 in 1's or casual gaming for some and the extent of software that can use quad cores these may not be important to you but others can see $100's in savings if not more in eliminating multiple devices etc or getting the most out of their device.

Apple service is one of the best but this only has value if you need it on a regular basis for the once in a blue moon major issue I do not believe Apple to be any significantly better, most of the time you are just subsidising the inexperience user or those that abuse the system especially on returns

 

[gdeputy]

I have a BTO ($3300) machine from work with TB. It's wonderful, overpriced but nice.

The cost is directly tied to R&D. Expect to pay a premium for things like the construction, display and fit and finish.

Sucks but someone has to pay for those

 

[bobr1952]

I can't say I have much to compare my to since I haven't used Microsoft or anything else since 2008. But I think a lot of us don't really care about upgradable features as long as everything continues to work and work speedy enough that we don't really care about upgrading. At least that is how it is for me and my 2012 MacBook Pro.

 

[raqball]

Let's see, off the top of my head:

- A full-fledged UNIX OS with a great GUI (more polished and feature-rich than any Linux distribution)
- Top build quality and reliability (QC issues and failures do exist, but that's the case for any maker)
- Best looking screen and best sounding speakers of its category
- Best keyboard and trackpad (yes, I actually like the controversial new keyboard)
- Ability to run both Windows and macOS without any hacks
- Great customer service that has never let me down so far
- Full integration with all my Apple devices

These "intangible" assets might not make the technical spec sheet look more impressive, but add so much to my user experience that they end up being just as important as having a powerful hardware. I'm not saying that one can't get all of this from other vendors, but MBPs are still, in my experience, the only laptops that tick all the above points at the same time.

About the specs and hardware: the missing things I would be very happy to see in the MBP lineup are a 32GB RAM option (great for people who work in science, deal with big datasets or run multiple VMs) and a decent Nvidia graphics card (great for people who use CUDA). I agree that the absence of those options sucks.

At the end of the day, macOS alone seals the deal for me: I prefer (and often really need) to work on a UNIX system, and there isn't any Linux distribution which hasn't given me endless headaches trying to get it to run without hiccups on a laptop. I need my computer to "just work" and help me get my job done rather than getting in my way, and macOS offers me just that. Even for personal stuff, it's a joy to use compared to any other OS. Taken together with the other points mentioned above, it's worth the Apple premium in my book.

That said, it's undeniable that the competition has gotten much better in recent years (which is a only a good thing in my opinion), so if you are not hooked to the Apple ecosystem (and/or you are just fine with using Windows) I agree that MBPs are just one of the many valid options on the table.

Thank you for a rational and educated response. Those are all good reasons to pay the Apple tax and I agree with many of them if they meet with you needs / other gear.

I no longer have an iPhone but when I did, continuity and handoff were killer features that I would pay extra for. I do prefer MacOS over Windows.. If Apple ever sold MacOS as a license so it could be installed on a PC I'd buy it..

I’m sorry to hear you’re offended by my comment that you spend your time in these forums because you are looking for validation of your cheap laptop because I don’t know how to break the news to you:

An Apple MBP priced at $3000 is Expensive
A Lenovo X1 priced at $1567 is Cheap

That’s your one, and only, argument proposed over two lines. You can’t handle the thought of someone calling your laptop cheap compared to a MBP and rightly so. That’s because there is more to comparing apples to apples than price and specs.

Offended? Nope..... I do find it hilarious when someone who obviously knows nothing about computers posts pure nonsense and craziness though. You may very well be the 1st person ever to call an X1 Carbon a cheap machine... I think even most frothing at the mouth Apple fans would admit they are killer machines..

Maybe next time do a little research? If you bothered to or if you had even read this thread you'd see that the price I paid for mine was discounted for a Memorial Day sale and that I got an extra 10% off that sale price. The normal price for my machine is about $2,300... So again the foot goes in the mouth.

You also refuse to address my previous comments about the new Surface Laptop. Assume same specs if Apple updates the Macbook Pro next week, same build quality (maybe better on the Surface), same warranty with MS stores in most major cities and $200 less..

And yet you still refuse to answer the question at hand.

 

[bubbleboil]

Comparing to a Alienware 13, I don't think macbook is priced too differently.

For approximately same price
Alienware : touch screen, gtx1060

Macbook: faster ssd, much lighter, better battery life. Free iWorks

 

[The Mercurian]

I have a BTO ($3300) machine from work with TB. It's wonderful, overpriced but nice.

The cost is directly tied to R&D. Expect to pay a premium for things like the construction, display and fit and finish.

Sucks but someone has to pay for those

They have more cash than several small nations. The cost is directly tied to greed.

 

[ascender]

They have more cash than several small nations. The cost is directly tied to greed.

They're a business with shareholders to please at the end of the day.

 

[daflake]

Comparing to a Alienware 13, I don't think macbook is priced too differently.

For approximately same price
Alienware : touch screen, gtx1060

Macbook: faster ssd, much lighter, better battery life. Free iWorks

How do you figure? The Alienware is VR ready (HD display) with a bigger and faster proc, a graphics card that destroys what the Mac has and pretty much will out benchmark the Mac at every turn.

The SSD in the Alienware is an SSD M.2 running 6 GB/s. Not sure what the Mac has as they don't really tell you on their site, I have my doubts as to it being faster.

As for iWorks, you can get Open Office for free.

I think that lighter and battery life is all you got there but with a performance machine, I don't expect super long battery life.

So for 200 dollars more, I get a much faster gaming machine in the Alienware. These are not even close to being comparable machines.