And? That is how valuable macOS is to me. I upgraded 4 licenses to Windows 10 for free and purchased several licenses totaling around $900. Windows 10 has become such a massive mess with the latest updates it is ridiculous. That is why every one I know is satisfied and does not feel that Macs are overpriced because of the OS that completely destroys Windows 10. What gives you the right to say I do not value my money?
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Why are MBPs so over-priced?
- Thread starter groove-agent
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And? That is how valuable macOS is to me. I upgraded 4 licenses to Windows 10 for free and purchased several licenses totaling around $900. Windows 10 has become such a massive mess with the latest updates it is ridiculous. That is why every one I know is satisfied and does not feel that Macs are overpriced because of the OS that completely destroys Windows 10. What gives you the right to say I do not value my money?
I think we are all just 2nd guessing on R&D and production costs etc and giving way to much credit to this
Just look at the Porsche design book one which is equally as expensive. Do we think Porsche has suddenly set up x 100 employees to R&D laptops now LOL or built several factories etc
Of course not they have done as any other company and laid out their specs added some Porsche flare and got someone else to do it
Given that this is a relatively custom and low production run you would think based on previous postings it should cost double the amount
I would like to think that the extra you pay for Apple was quality but it's more likely the overheads of maintaining MacOs, all those shops, easy returns etc that many seem to think are free, although that still does not account for why upgrades (eg ram/ssd) have always been far greater than other OEM's
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@New_Mac_Smell This... ^^
You would have to have a clear insight to their profit margins on the product as well as R&D costs etc... to make a comment like this. Do you have this information or is this just your opinion?
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Destroys it so badly that every company is beating down their doors to install it? Yeah no... Win 10 has been the cleanest most stable OS I have used to date. I dare say that the Mac gets rebooted more than my Win 10 box. Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it a mess, it just means you don't know how to use it.
The reason why MBPs are so overpriced is because nobody complains about the price. You're actually frowned upon for complaining about the price. In today's high tech society, you're simply expected to make more money rather than complain. What? You can't afford a new MBP? What's wrong with you? You must have some bad genetics. You're at the bottom of the gene pool.
Sadly this is probably the best reason and a testament to our society.
Interesting...
I think people do complain about the price and out of those, some of them do talk with their wallets. At least, in my case, when I had to replace my wife's MBP, I saw the 13"'s price, complained, threw a fit and bought her a Thinkpad.
Granted that not many might be doing this because they might not be in a position to (software purchases, iOS devs) OR they might not want to (can easily afford it OR cause they can justify the expense even if they can't)
But some people definitely do leave MacOSX.
Apple might take time to notice the long drawn out effects. Few people leaving will be offset by the incredulous price hike others are paying for. This will go on for a few years easy. Just like when the MacPro was introduced, there was so much adulation for it even in the after glow of its release. I remember reading a PC focussed website that did a price comparison and the MacPro came out tops!
Fast forward 4 years later, Apple has publicly acknowledged it as a failure. So who knows? Maybe the MBP is a failure or maybe not....maybe Apple reduces its prices to make it more palatable or maybe not. Interesting times....
This has taught me one thing though...depending solely on Apple is foolhardy! You never know on which side of the bed the executives get up one day and decide to implement a feature nobody asked for and ask a 1000$ for it!
For those who are not aware, read this guy's post....he has tried to capture the "pros'" sentiments on the new MBP
Simple buying Apple, your buying into a brand that sets itself above others. Best thing Apple has ever sold is Apple, therefore people are willing to pay the asking cost, some blindly while Apple reaps the benefit of it's extensive margins. Apple solely serves Apple that should be abundantly clear to all by now.
Apple prices it's products at the upper limit and equally crushes it's suppliers, levering it's vast economy of scale. What bothers me these days is Apple could do so much more, not only with technology also for society as it's primely positioned, however Apple's sole consideration is $$$$. Apple only does the minimum it needs to do and or is interested in, until the revenue numbers drop it will just be more of the same mediocrity...
Personally far preferred Apple when it had the fire, imagination and real courage to do something different. Today Apple is far too sanitised, bland & boring, not willing to take the risk, churning out safe bet consumer products, with the highest possible margins...
The Mac was born from necessitation & imagination combined with an amazing team of engineers. To me best thing that could happen to the Mac now is to be spun off as a separate entity. Escape the shadow of IOS devices, making mistakes is one thing, being afraid to try entirely another...
Q-6
Apple prices it's products at the upper limit and equally crushes it's suppliers, levering it's vast economy of scale. What bothers me these days is Apple could do so much more, not only with technology also for society as it's primely positioned, however Apple's sole consideration is $$$$. Apple only does the minimum it needs to do and or is interested in, until the revenue numbers drop it will just be more of the same mediocrity...
Personally far preferred Apple when it had the fire, imagination and real courage to do something different. Today Apple is far too sanitised, bland & boring, not willing to take the risk, churning out safe bet consumer products, with the highest possible margins...
The Mac was born from necessitation & imagination combined with an amazing team of engineers. To me best thing that could happen to the Mac now is to be spun off as a separate entity. Escape the shadow of IOS devices, making mistakes is one thing, being afraid to try entirely another...
Q-6
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Indeed. So many people fail to recognize that software is a shippable product with as many demands on resources if not more demands than hardware that you can hold.
I'd also say that the current MBP is overpriced, but for much of the past 10 years, it was merely on the expensive end of the spectrum.
Own and have owned plenty of Apple hardware in the past. Was contemplating a refresh at home and thought I could sell my not-that-old reasonably high end gaming PC and my 3 year old MacBook Air and that would get me some of the way towards a reasonable spec MacBook Pro - then I checked the pricing and realised I'd need to DOUBLE the amount to get close.
So yeah.. hard to fathom that pricing to be honest. I think I'll stick with what I currently have as the MacBook Pro is just too damn expensive for me
So yeah.. hard to fathom that pricing to be honest. I think I'll stick with what I currently have as the MacBook Pro is just too damn expensive for me
I enjoy their products in general, with a few caveats. I don't like how they force updates on you (for example the iPad Air 1st gen worked great on iOS 7/8 but seems to struggle somewhat with 10) and I also don't like how sometimes they use consumers as guinea pigs for 1st gen products (again, the iPad Air 1st gen which only has 1GB of ram and no Touch ID but a great battery life).
Their service is also top notch, I've had this iPad Air replaced near the end of its two year warranty with no quibbles from Apple, I've also been given a new MacBook Pro due to continued fault with a 2011 MBP that they couldn't seem to fix and replacement MagSafe adapters on a few occasions, they didn't use the "reasonable wear and tear" excuse to wriggle out of it like a lot of PC manufacturers.
Their service is also top notch, I've had this iPad Air replaced near the end of its two year warranty with no quibbles from Apple, I've also been given a new MacBook Pro due to continued fault with a 2011 MBP that they couldn't seem to fix and replacement MagSafe adapters on a few occasions, they didn't use the "reasonable wear and tear" excuse to wriggle out of it like a lot of PC manufacturers.
Um. Where did I mention companies? Companies are slow to even upgrade from Windows XP to this day. You think they will perform an entire shift to a different platform if even Windows 7 is too different?
Yeah ok. I do not understand Windows 10. Okay. Whatever you say. Where is Windows 10 marketshare compared to Windows 7 again? If Windows 10 is the OMG HOLY GRAIL, why are there companies I know will NOT upgrade to Windows 10 AT ALL. They are planning to stick with Windows 7 for as long as possible. Windows 7 was the last great OS.
Don't you dare tell me "oh I only hate it because I do not understand". I have been using it since release day on the Microsoft store. I am still using it today. Most stable OS? Did you just not use Windows 7 at all? Actually Windows 8.1 is better than Windows 10. I have had only a handful of crashes on Windows 7 throughout its life. My Windows 10 experience shattered that VERY quickly after the first big update. Want to know what some of my issues are? Here, combined list of the biggest ones on SEVERAL computers up to the Creators Update.
Antivirus getting removed automatically without warning. Webcams getting broken. ALL shortcuts got messed up. Unable to use the Microsoft Management Console when adding a couple of snap-ins - it immediately crashes. On several computers, I ran clean disk, restarted, and my Windows 10 install was so corrupt I had to pull from an Acronis backup. Start menu fails to open occasionally. Taskbar randomly "crashes" and reappears. These "big updates" have failed on several computers from my friends and family and I had to fix them by reinstalling. Windows Update got so messed up the ONLY fix was to apply the cumulative update from the Microsoft Catalog site directly. Up until recently whenever I used Chrome there used to be a little popup telling me to use Microsoft Edge. Got some permission denied errors with the new Settings app changes with the Creators Update even though I am an administrator on the system.
So don't you dare say I do not know how to use Windows and that is the ONLY POSSIBLE WAY I can dislike windows.
I can say the same thing about your remarks regarding macOS. If you are rebooting it more than Windows, you don't understand how to use that.
So with all of this being said, I will never go back to Windows 7 and Windows 8.1. Doesn't mean I have to like Windows 10.
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You can't blame Apple too much here. If you install Windows 10 and just barely meet even the recommend requirements, it won't be a perfect experience either.
I do wish there would be an option to decline updates so it doesn't bother you.
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The newest MacBooks are vastly overpriced, but it's always that way. Every time Apple makes a major redesign, the prices go up phenomenally.
The difference here is that MacBooks used to be very affordable. You could get the Mac experience with a low-end 13" MBP unibody for like $1100 in 2011. Now the ordinary MacBook costs more than that, and it isn't as capable.
A 15" MBP cost something like $1700 in 2011 for the mid range CPU. But now they have packed in the Touch-Bar for all 15" MBP so the price has gone up dramatically.
Someone like myself might need a 15" laptop, but the Touchbar is not useful for me. However I still need to bear the cost of that feature.
Also lack of upgradability is a problem for many consumers. When you first own a computer, RAM and Storage costs are highest, but needs are lowest. Think about it. As time goes on, a computer accumulates more files. Maybe in today I only need a 256GB SSD, but in three years I'll need 1TB. As a price-conscious consumer, I'd rather put off the purchase of the 1TB SSD until I need it, at which point it will be cheaper.
That's one thing I don't like about these new laptops.
Hence I've been using my Late 2011 MBP with an SSD and 16GB of RAM(orig 4GB). Being able to upgrade the computer extends its useful life, but for a company who wants you to upgrade ever few years, it makes perfect sense why they would want to do away with that concept.
The difference here is that MacBooks used to be very affordable. You could get the Mac experience with a low-end 13" MBP unibody for like $1100 in 2011. Now the ordinary MacBook costs more than that, and it isn't as capable.
A 15" MBP cost something like $1700 in 2011 for the mid range CPU. But now they have packed in the Touch-Bar for all 15" MBP so the price has gone up dramatically.
Someone like myself might need a 15" laptop, but the Touchbar is not useful for me. However I still need to bear the cost of that feature.
Also lack of upgradability is a problem for many consumers. When you first own a computer, RAM and Storage costs are highest, but needs are lowest. Think about it. As time goes on, a computer accumulates more files. Maybe in today I only need a 256GB SSD, but in three years I'll need 1TB. As a price-conscious consumer, I'd rather put off the purchase of the 1TB SSD until I need it, at which point it will be cheaper.
That's one thing I don't like about these new laptops.
Hence I've been using my Late 2011 MBP with an SSD and 16GB of RAM(orig 4GB). Being able to upgrade the computer extends its useful life, but for a company who wants you to upgrade ever few years, it makes perfect sense why they would want to do away with that concept.
Well your same argument. If macOS does not work for you, you just do not understand how to use it. See why you can't say that? I have and still use Windows 10 today. I KNOW how to use it. There are massive problems with it. it is not because I do not know how to use it.
Look, I have tried to be nice to you and to be fair but clearly you don't want that. Your box is overpriced in my opinion and this actually has been well known for many years and rehashed over and over. Nothing new, so why are you so hurt? Also, Win10 has been much more stable over Win7, why do I know this? Well, I am also a dev who has been working with it since beta and programming around it as well. Win 7 is a nice too, but Win 10 is undergoing constant changes much like OS X. As for OS X? Yep, I use that too and while I don't mind it, I still prefer Windows or Linux to using it. It has its place, but I need something that has a little more under the hood than what a MacBook Pro with OS X can offer. As for me bringing up the companies, I did so because of your comments about how it "destroys" every other OS. Well, if that was the case, all the businesses out there would be ditching their Linux and Windows systems to jump on-board and we know that just isn’t happening.
The bottom line and my last response to you.... You like Mac OS X and you are happy to pay premium for it. I’m happy for you, but the argument still remains that it is overpriced for what you get.
Have a great night!
Basic economics. MacOS doesn't cost 500 dollars. You don't value your money, but you want to justify it because it doesn't feel good to acknowledge so. Psychologically it's a form of cognitive dissonance.
Care to actually collaborate towards the conversation of identifying the reasons why MBP's are overpriced or are you content just critiquing other members contributions instead?
I would like to clarify my position a bit more. The biggest piece of all of this is easily over looked and that is:
Does the Mac satisfy my needs?
If the answer is yes, then the price for it is really no longer relavent. My wife loves hers and I am sure that she will continue to use it. Me, well, I am vested more in Windows and Linux and will continue to use them.
The hardware is very well done compared to most which is why we see a lot of companies copying them. Combine that with a solid OS and the support you get from Apple and you have a winning combination that people are willing to pay for.
So, for those of you who are defending Apple and their pricing, I want you to know I get it.
Does the Mac satisfy my needs?
If the answer is yes, then the price for it is really no longer relavent. My wife loves hers and I am sure that she will continue to use it. Me, well, I am vested more in Windows and Linux and will continue to use them.
The hardware is very well done compared to most which is why we see a lot of companies copying them. Combine that with a solid OS and the support you get from Apple and you have a winning combination that people are willing to pay for.
So, for those of you who are defending Apple and their pricing, I want you to know I get it.
Breaking the product into tangible and intangible components we are left looking at:
Tangible:
Anybody read 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An inquiry into values'? The author proposes the idea of looking at things with a Classical mindset (i.e. the hierarchy of how things fit into order) and the Romantic mindset (appreciation of the beauty of whole of an object).
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Hit the nail on the head!
Tangible:
- Aluminium all in one body shell
- TouchID
- Glass trackpad
- Retina display
- macOS
- Battery life
- Goodwill
- Brand Loyalty
- Ecosystem
- Design
Anybody read 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An inquiry into values'? The author proposes the idea of looking at things with a Classical mindset (i.e. the hierarchy of how things fit into order) and the Romantic mindset (appreciation of the beauty of whole of an object).
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Hit the nail on the head!
Uhhh what are we talking about here? There is a premium of around $300 or more on Apple laptops. I am saying that macOS ITSELF is worth it TO ME. What gives you the right to tell me I do not value my money?
The point of buying apple products is to not bother about what is under the hood. For decades now, apple's approach even in marketing has forever been about what it can do and little to no details of what it has under the hood, and if you see a dell or hp or any other laptop for that matter their approach has been about what it has under the hood. They throw all the latest hardware and terms out there to attract customers. It is not about improving performance. It is about being able to use the latest buzzword in marketing. Now, it is new hardware so will obviously give better performance. But, then why does every time a new mac release it beats all competition in benchmarks. more about this below.
You seem very concerned about hardware which is understandable. Simple things like RAM and ssd or hdd need to be user upgradeable. But apple seems to have taken an approach which some like and some dont. To go as portable as possible with their line of laptops. They seem to be in the idea that if it is not as portable as it can be then why even buy a laptop, stick with a desktop, right. I understand not everyone has to agree with this. But it is their decision and a priority they are sticking to. MAking everything soldered in allows them to make thinner and lighter every year while giving the best battery life of any laptops out there, and competitive performance. I say competitive because I am being nice.
Truth is everytime apple releases a laptop or desktop, it hands down beats all competition in terms of software benchmarks. I mean what good is all the latest hardware under the hood if it is still giving a lower benchmark when compared to the mediocre hardware in a macbook as you would say.
So, point is apple doesnt care if they are using the latest and greatest. They have never been solely about being the first in using the latest technology. They only adapt the latest after due diligence and testing and ensuring that they are getting considerable performance improvement while not losing out battery life and other equations are balanced too while keeping everything in the price bracket they decide.
Damn, spent 40 minutes reading this thread!
You guys are just going in circles. Obviously we have Mac supporters and PC supporters. The thread asked WHY they are expensive, not which OS is better, not which laptop is better, nor what you should by. Just wanted to note this since this is a heated argument turning into a "is MBP/any Apple laptop worth buying". Dont get me wrong, I learned a lot from you guys but were getting to the point where people are going on the offensive and others are defensive.
You guys are just going in circles. Obviously we have Mac supporters and PC supporters. The thread asked WHY they are expensive, not which OS is better, not which laptop is better, nor what you should by. Just wanted to note this since this is a heated argument turning into a "is MBP/any Apple laptop worth buying". Dont get me wrong, I learned a lot from you guys but were getting to the point where people are going on the offensive and others are defensive.
Basic economics. You can attach subjective value to anything. It doesn't change that some things are just overpriced for what you're getting, and some people just don't value their money.
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I'm a Mac supporter, and I acknowledge that the 2016 Macbook Pro is disgustly overpriced for how badly it under-performs.