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Meme that perfectly describes your post:

Racism-Everywhere.jpg


The iWork equivalent is still $0/yr for unlimited?

The fact that Apple has to introduce the iPad "Pro" with Microsoft Office just tells you what you need to know about iWork.


Macs and iDevices, I doubt someone would use 1 TB of storage on an iPad so I'm going to go with the $12/yr 50 GB plan, because I will say the free 5 GB is not enough. With FaceTime audio, Skype is not longer relevant. Generous: not so much, cheaper: yes. It's about thinking practical, if Windows works for you, then by all means use a Surface, if you prefer iPad or Mac OS then go for that.

A lot of sour grapes.

Ah, well I never wanted 1 TB of storage anyway.

Skype? Nah, I don't need it. I only need friends who have Macs and iPhones.
 
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I hadn't checked ram prices in a while and came across a discount recently, this sort of blew my mind:

$25 8GB DDR3 1600 SO-DIMM
$60 16GB DDR3 1600 SO-DIMM
http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-PC3-1...d=1459578447&sr=8-1&keywords=DDR3+SO-DIMM+8gb

In the meantime Apple keeps manufacturing and shipping plenty of soldered 4gb macs and charges $200-$300 for 16GB.

Just to point out how amazingly affordable ram is, so cheap, you could give OSX such breathing space with 8gb or 16gb on your Mac, yet Apple solders ram, plenty of Macs with 2gb and 4gb of soldered ram that will never ever be able to be upgraded. It's just deplorable how such an easy, affordable and helpful upgrade is being killed by Apple.
[doublepost=1459579690][/doublepost]Here's a base Mac Mini, with $300 option to upgrade to 16GB, while 16GB ram is currently costing $60 on amazon. It's just ridiculous.


Edit:
Added amazon pricing for reference:
Last September I paid about $75 for that same 16GB set of RAM for my 2012 MB and my 2012 Mac Mini. I didn't need to get that much for either one but why wouldn't I buy that much at that price? It's amazing how low the prices have come.
 
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Meme that perfectly describes your post:

The fact that Apple has to introduce the iPad "Pro" with Microsoft Office just tells you what you need to know about iWork.


A lot of sour grapes.

Ah, well I never wanted 1 TB of storage anyway.

Skype? Nah, I don't need it. I only need friends who have Macs and iPhones.

The fact that Apple has to introduce the iPad "Pro" with Microsoft Office just tells you what you need to know about iWork.
Microsoft wrote the software for iOS, and Apple used it for a better foothold in Enterprise.

Skype? Nah, I don't need it. I only need friends who have Macs and iPhones.
Why pay for another service when I already pay for a cellular service? Sounds like a quick way to go broke if it's not bundled.

Ah, well I never wanted 1 TB of storage anyway.
Most people who would actually use 1 TB of storage would do so on an actual computer, not an iPad.

I've been using Windows since 1.0 and quite frankly, ever since Windows 7, the Windows line-up has been pretty sad. I have a Windows 10 PC for gaming but only picked it for DX12.

Seems like you have it all figured out except you haven't come to understand that different devices are better at different tasks. Would you use a Mac for gaming? Neither would I. Would you rather have a Windows Server or a Linux Server? Would you rather have a Surface Pro 4 with a regular stylus, or an iPad with a stylus that allows you to modify the appearance of the brush stroke as you draw? The device a person chooses depends mostly on what they do, and what they need it to perform.

You also need to stop with the trash in the forums. It's not helpful to the poster.
 
The fact that Apple has to introduce the iPad "Pro" with Microsoft Office just tells you what you need to know about iWork.
Microsoft wrote the software for iOS, and Apple used it for a better foothold in Enterprise.

Skype? Nah, I don't need it. I only need friends who have Macs and iPhones.
Why pay for another service when I already pay for a cellular service? Sounds like a quick way to go broke if it's not bundled.

Ah, well I never wanted 1 TB of storage anyway.
Most people who would actually use 1 TB of storage would do so on an actual computer, not an iPad.

I've been using Windows since 1.0 and quite frankly, ever since Windows 7, the Windows line-up has been pretty sad. I have a Windows 10 PC for gaming but only picked it for DX12.

Seems like you have it all figured out except you haven't come to understand that different devices are better at different tasks. Would you use a Mac for gaming? Neither would I. Would you rather have a Windows Server or a Linux Server? Would you rather have a Surface Pro 4 with a regular stylus, or an iPad with a stylus that allows you to modify the appearance of the brush stroke as you draw? The device a person chooses depends mostly on what they do, and what they need it to perform.

You also need to stop with the trash in the forums. It's not helpful to the poster.

Lol. The fact that Apple has to get Microsoft to show Microsoft Office at Apple's own keynote just show how pathetic iWork is.

Oh and it's good to know you are the type of person that chooses friends by what type of computers and phones they use.

And yes, I would prefer a Surface Pro 4 over an iPad any day of the week. Right now, I always take my Surface Pro 3 to class and it's about to get even better with Ink Workspace in the Windows 10 Anniversary Update.

Oh and what is this talk about trashing the forum? You brought up the topic of Office 365.
 
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The fact that Apple has to introduce the iPad "Pro" with Microsoft Office just tells you what you need to know about iWork.
Microsoft wrote the software for iOS, and Apple used it for a better foothold in Enterprise.

Would you use a Mac for gaming? Neither would I. Would you rather have a Windows Server or a Linux Server? Would you rather have a Surface Pro 4 with a regular stylus, or an iPad with a stylus that allows you to modify the appearance of the brush stroke as you draw? The device a person chooses depends mostly on what they do, and what they need it to perform.

You also need to stop with the trash in the forums. It's not helpful to the poster.

tubexperience never talked about server nor gaming.
so - who is trashing this thread: you or him? :D

Your posting is not more helpful than those of tube experience, for some people it surely is just the opposite…

And I think one has to be a real militant apple-fan to estimate an iPad more helpful for business than a surface notebook… *ROTFL*

15 years ago I used the predecessor, a Panasonic Toughbook. It came with a touch-Screen, the ingenious trackpont plus a touchpad and a very good keyboard (was even waterproof). It was also the first notebook without any fan.

A very functional workhorse, it is not by accident that even the US military still uses them…

but an iPad for texting… *LOL*
 
16GB ram currently on sale for $45, while Apple keeps charging $300.

This is why soldered ram on desktop macs doesn't make any sense at all, except to make Apple more profit at the expense of the user.
a71w1GG.png

pI7yMnG.png
 
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16GB ram currently on sale for $45, while Apple keeps charging $300.

This is why soldered ram on desktop macs don't make any sense at all, except to make Apple more profit at the expense of the user.
- It's not only Apple's soldered RAM that's stupidly expensive. Have a look at these RAM prices for the non-soldered 27" iMac:

Screen Shot 2016-04-11 at 11.25.30.png
 
16GB ram currently on sale for $45, while Apple keeps charging $300.

This is why soldered ram on desktop macs don't make any sense at all, except to make Apple more profit at the expense of the user.

- It's not only Apple's soldered RAM that's stupidly expensive. Have a look at these RAM prices for the non-soldered 27" iMac:

View attachment 626177

Simple vote with your $$$$, it`s not the price that annoys, it`s the feeling of being held to ransom. Personally, Apple no longer produces viable desktop solutions as far as I am concerned. Apple`s portable`s are also loosing attraction with OS X being the redeeming feature.

I expect a lot more, $2500 for the 15" rMBP in it`s current incarnation it`s laughable. Apple has always priced in-house upgrades unrealistically, however now Apple is engineering systems that are easier to produce, yet boost their margins excessively, at the cost of the end user, as in the OS X universe there is no alternative. Currently I find Apple to be dull, unimaginative & greedy.

Q-6
 
Currently I find Apple to be dull, unimaginative & greedy.

Q-6

This is probably the same way I've viewed Microsoft since the release of Windows 7, Linux hasn't really changed much since Ubuntu started shipping distros with the Unity desktop, 16.04 doesn't look like much has changed other than a new layout with their app store that closely resembles the MAS. The only thing worthwhile and promising as far as change in hardware goes is the Spectre laptop from HP, before that it was the Mac Pro. (~3 years ago) As far as software goes, I'd like to see a new piece of software instead of just a bunch of version nexts.

You really have to think about it, the change from the ENIAC to mainframe was huge, the introduction of email and dial-up internet was huge, going from POTS to Ethernet as is today didn't have that much of excitement behind it, it just changed and the hype quickly died after a week. The very first laptop was crazy exciting. Wi-Fi was also really exciting. Going from DOS to Windows 1.0 was game changing, Apple introducing the mouse and a gui screen (they stole from Xerox) was amazing, then when Windows was beautified into Win95, the hype was there. Going from 95 to 98se was a breath of fresh air because of all the errors on 95. XP was innovation, Vista was just a beautification project that failed and 7 was a rehash of Vista on hardware that could support it. 8 tried to innovate but the OS didn't need those proposed changes. 10 is just a rehash of 8 that is a little more friendly in terms of mouse users. Bringing out a smartphone that could connect to the internet (palm) and redone better (blackberry) was a great innovation. Apple took the reigns on that and won it over with the best mobile experience with iPhone, which quickly was adopted by Android and Windows Phone 7. The innovation is still there with all of these companies, it's just there isn't that much completely new stuff like their used to be.

I don't expect there to be much anymore because we've left the information age, now we are in the infrastructure age where the best innovated things are self-driving cars and machine learning.
 
This is probably the same way I've viewed Microsoft since the release of Windows 7, Linux hasn't really changed much since Ubuntu started shipping distros with the Unity desktop, 16.04 doesn't look like much has changed other than a new layout with their app store that closely resembles the MAS. The only thing worthwhile and promising as far as change in hardware goes is the Spectre laptop from HP, before that it was the Mac Pro. (~3 years ago) As far as software goes, I'd like to see a new piece of software instead of just a bunch of version nexts.

You really have to think about it, the change from the ENIAC to mainframe was huge, the introduction of email and dial-up internet was huge, going from POTS to Ethernet as is today didn't have that much of excitement behind it, it just changed and the hype quickly died after a week. The very first laptop was crazy exciting. Wi-Fi was also really exciting. Going from DOS to Windows 1.0 was game changing, Apple introducing the mouse and a gui screen (they stole from Xerox) was amazing, then when Windows was beautified into Win95, the hype was there. Going from 95 to 98se was a breath of fresh air because of all the errors on 95. XP was innovation, Vista was just a beautification project that failed and 7 was a rehash of Vista on hardware that could support it. 8 tried to innovate but the OS didn't need those proposed changes. 10 is just a rehash of 8 that is a little more friendly in terms of mouse users. Bringing out a smartphone that could connect to the internet (palm) and redone better (blackberry) was a great innovation. Apple took the reigns on that and won it over with the best mobile experience with iPhone, which quickly was adopted by Android and Windows Phone 7. The innovation is still there with all of these companies, it's just there isn't that much completely new stuff like their used to be.

I don't expect there to be much anymore because we've left the information age, now we are in the infrastructure age where the best innovated things are self-driving cars and machine learning.

Totally going off topic here!

Where should I begin?

The changes in Windows Vista is breathtaking in terms of both new features as well as underlying changes.

Its hard to compare Windows XP and Windows Vista and say that somehow the latter isn't better than the former in everyday other than the issue with the drivers.

Windows Vista introduced entirely new driver models. The drivers were moved from the kernel space into the user space.

For example, prior to Windows Vista, a video driver crash would take down the whole OS (BSOD).

In Windows Vista, a video driver crash, but can then be subsequently reloaded.

The problem with Windows Vista is that it was released prior to the drivers being ready. A lot of drivers available were still beta in quality.

Windows 7 was simply released at a time most of the common drivers were ready.

Windows 8 also introduced many underlying changes than significantly improved performance and stability on the current hardware. Obviously, most of that went unnoticed since many hated the full screen start screen and full screen-only apps.

Windows 10 fixes those issues and make the OS more mouse friendly.

BUT (and this is a big but) the OS is the part of the equation. You have to look at the innovations on the hardware side that is enabled by the software and vise-versa.

Looking at, for example, the Surface Book. You can't look at that and not acknowledged how far things have come.

And I know someone will say: "Ah, well the Surface Book doesn't have upgradable memory!" and that's true, but the memory is in the tablet potion of the tablet and (even if the memory upgradeable) would require removing the screen. It's the same reason I don't expect the iPad to have upgradeable battery,
 
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- It's not only Apple's soldered RAM that's stupidly expensive. Have a look at these RAM prices for the non-soldered 27" iMac:

View attachment 626177

Even Apple's own math seems messed up there, two 8GB dimms is $200, 4 should be $400 not $600, am I missing something? And by the way, those 32GB can be bought for $90 on amazon right now rather than Apple's $600. Apple's pricing has got way out of control.

To be clear, the situation with the iMac 5k I don't care as much because one can bypass Apple's greedy/insane pricing and buy your own 3rd party ram. What I care most about is the soldered crap, where you are 100% forced to go through Apple's nonsense.
 
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Totally going off topic here!

Where should I begin?

The changes in Windows Vista is breathtaking in terms of both new features as well as underlying changes.

Its hard to compare Windows XP and Windows Vista and say that somehow the latter isn't better than the former in everyday other than the issue with the drivers.

Windows Vista introduced entirely new driver models. The drivers were moved from the kernel space into the user space.

For example, prior to Windows Vista, a video driver crash would take down the whole OS (BSOD).

In Windows Vista, a video driver crash, but can then be subsequently reloaded.

The problem with Windows Vista is that it was released prior to the drivers being ready. A lot of drivers available were still beta in quality.

Windows 7 was simply released at a time most of the common drivers were ready.

Windows 8 also introduced many underlying changes than significantly improved performance and stability on the current hardware. Obviously, most of that went unnoticed since many hated the full screen start screen and full screen-only apps.

Windows 10 fixes those issues and make the OS more mouse friendly.

BUT (and this is a big but) the OS is the part of the equation. You have to look at the innovations on the hardware side that is enabled by the software.

Looking at, for example, the Surface Book. You can't look at that and not acknowledged how far things have come.

And I know someone will say: "Ah, well the Surface Book doesn't have upgradable memory!" and that's true, but the memory is in the tablet potion of the tablet and (even if the memory upgradeable) would require removing the screen. It's the same reason I don't expect the iPad to have upgradeable battery,

You pretty much re-iterated everything I said, just with a bit more detail. And the surface tablet is just a newer version of this:
windowsxptablet.jpg


(This also came out before the iPad)

And the problem with Vista was partially due to driver support but even with 32 bit drivers, it had no problems if you gave it the max 3.5 GB of RAM it could take. Honestly it was a 64 bit OS from the start, the pretties needed to many resources and slowed the computer, if you put Vista on a newer computer you wouldn't have any complaints other than the fact that it prompts UAC everywhere, even for things that shouldn't need admin approval. Vista's only real problem was that computers were listed as compatible which Microsoft rescinded quickly and said Vista Capable. Would you run Windows 7 on 1 processing core and 1 GB of RAM? Neither would I.
 
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You pretty much re-iterated everything I said, just with a bit more detail. And the surface tablet is just a newer version of this:
windowsxptablet.jpg


(This also came out before the iPad)

And the problem with Vista was partially due to driver support but even with 32 bit drivers, it had no problems if you gave it the max 3.5 GB of RAM it could take. Honestly it was a 64 bit OS from the start, the pretties needed to many resources and crashed the computer, if you put Vista on a newer computer you wouldn't have any complaints other than the fact that it prompts UAC everywhere, even for things that shouldn't need admin approval.

And the iPad is a newer version of the Apple Newton.

newton-pen.jpg
 
There was a comment a ways back that talked about Apple being greedy and not innovative. Then that got tossed into a discussion about Vista when I was discussing innovation.
Going back to topic...

It hard to argue that soldered RAM is not the result of Apple forcing users to pay much more upfront than they would have if they can upgrade on their own. (greed) It's also planned obsolescence, forcing users to upgrade faster than they would have otherwise.

Why else would, for example, the Mac Mini have soldered RAM?
 
- The iMac 5K is pretty reasonable, I think, even in terms of value.

The iMac would offer a great deal more value to the customer, if it wasn't effectively sealed. For me I prefer desktops that can be upgraded as required, not built for obsolescence. I can see the logic in portables as size & weight matters, in a desktop it makes no sense to me, other than Apple making things easier well for Apple. $600 for 32Gb of RAM should be enough of an indication of Apple`s intent, just a matter of time before that path is also cut.

Q-6
 
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The iMac would offer a great deal more value to the customer, if it wasn't effectively sealed. For me a I prefer desktops that can be upgraded as required, not built for obsolescence. I can see the logic in portables as size & weight matters, in a desktop it makes no sense to me, other than Apple making things easier well for Apple. $600 for 32Gb of RAM should be enough of an indication of Apple`s intent, just a matter of time before that path is also cut.

Q-6

The 27-inch Retina (5K) iMac is the only iMac left that still have removable RAM.

The 21.5-inch Retina (4K) iMac and the 21.5-inch non-Retina both now have soldered RAM.

You have to pay for the most expensive iMac to have the privilege of upgrading your own RAM.
 
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Going back to topic...

It hard to argue that soldered RAM is not the result of Apple forcing users to pay much more upfront than they would have if they can upgrade on their own. (greed) It's also planned obsolescence, forcing users to upgrade faster than they would have otherwise.

Why else would, for example, the Mac Mini have soldered RAM?
Agreed
 

As another user has concisely stated:

Apple has morphed into a highly successful mass market producer of disposable devices. As such they have shifted their focus to short R&D cycles, continuing their legacy of razor thin objects, marketed at premium prices. It's a new Apple.

In other words, if your Mac no longer has enough storage or memory, you don't upgrade the storage and you don't upgrade the memory.

You simply get rid of it and buy a new one.
 
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As another user has concisely stated:



In other words, if your Mac no longer has enough storage or memory, you don't upgrade the storage and you don't upgrade the memory.

You simply get rid of it and buy a new one.
Precisely.

Apple enjoys the benefits of selling us new products. Only those who are easily mislead, actually believe Apples drivel about how they care about their customers.

It's our money that's building Apples spaceship campus, Steve Jobs present to his ego. It's our money that keeps Apple fat and happy :D
 
This is kind of a sticking point for me, being a new user of OS X. I got a 2012 MacBook Pro that was horribly slow, and added a new SSD and 16GB of DDR3-1600 and can now see using the machine until it breaks (Intel performance doesn't go up massive amounts between gens now, so the dual i5 in here is performing admirably). On top of that, I'm using more RAM than Apple even offered in this machine themselves, so even on a new one if I buy their highest option, I'm still not going to get the full capability of the hardware I'm paying a premium for. Coupled with the lack of an ethernet jack on newer models, it just feels like Apple is taking the 'Pro' out of the line and newer models may not serve my purposes anymore. Which is a shame since I just got onboard and have been enjoying OS X.
 
Precisely.

Apple enjoys the benefits of selling us new products. Only those who are easily mislead, actually believe Apples drivel about how they care about their customers.

It's our money that's building Apples spaceship campus, Steve Jobs present to his ego. It's our money that keeps Apple fat and happy :D

Well I buy Apple because of their ethics towards privacy and the OS just feels a lot better than others. Plus I actually do production work on a Mac using Mac only applications with no chance of exporting to another format for editing (e.g. Logic Pro). I do think they gouge customers, but I'm happy to pay for the experience, not so much the hardware.
 
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