Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Why are newer MacBook Pros not upgradeable
- Thread starter Aditya_S
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Yeah... So I bought a Mac a few years ago and specifically picked one (the 27" iMac) because I could upgrade the RAM in it. However, with the 3TB fusion drive I've never had a concern about running out of space, of course I'm also not torrenting every movie ever made and hoarding it on my hard drive like most people who have space issues. I do make music and my wife does photo and design work. I have over 50,000 non-apple audio samples, 26,000 songs, about 30 movies, a 19 GB photo library and about 70 audio plug-ins on that computer. She has a huge photo library as well, and my kid has about 20 games installed on it ranging from 100 MB to 25 GB. Space has not been an issue because I planned ahead for what I might need. I make backups on a 4 TB external HDD and I store everything I don't need on an external HDD along with WIPs that I can use with a MacBook Pro in case I will be traveling and have an idea.
Oh even worse... you compared this to freedom.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Do you think an updated 4" iPhone would have been released, if people didn't ask for it constantly? I have my doubts that it would. Same here. I'd LOVE an updated MBP, that allowed RAM and Storage upgrades. I'd live with it being a bit thicker.
If you don't like hearing/reading people ask for it, you are free to move on to another thread.
That's what Apples defenders NEVER get. Lots of people like 90% of what apples does, we just try to get the other 10% "fixed". Again, the iPhone SE is a GREAT example of this.
Assumptions, assumptions. I like 80% of what Apple does. I'm not an Apple defender, I'm realistic. Oh, and I educate myself about things I don't like, before complaining, just to make sure I didn't miss something that is actually beneficial.
Anyway, who says I don't like reading these things? It's interesting, to me, to see what people are whining about from time to time. Half the **** I whine about goes without notice from myself...
I appreciate your permission to move on BTW. I don't know much about the SE yet.
I hadn't checked ram prices in a while and came across a discount recently, this sort of blew my mind:
$25 8GB DDR3 1600 SO-DIMM
$60 16GB DDR3 1600 SO-DIMM
http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-PC3-1...d=1459578447&sr=8-1&keywords=DDR3+SO-DIMM+8gb
In the meantime Apple keeps manufacturing and shipping plenty of soldered 4gb macs and charges $200-$300 for 16GB.
Just to point out how amazingly affordable ram is, so cheap, you could give OSX such breathing space with 8gb or 16gb on your Mac, yet Apple solders ram, plenty of Macs with 2gb and 4gb of soldered ram that will never ever be able to be upgraded. It's just deplorable how such an easy, affordable and helpful upgrade is being killed by Apple.
[doublepost=1459579690][/doublepost]Here's a base Mac Mini, with $300 option to upgrade to 16GB, while 16GB ram is currently costing $60 on amazon. It's just ridiculous.
Edit:
Added amazon pricing for reference:
$25 8GB DDR3 1600 SO-DIMM
$60 16GB DDR3 1600 SO-DIMM
http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-PC3-1...d=1459578447&sr=8-1&keywords=DDR3+SO-DIMM+8gb
In the meantime Apple keeps manufacturing and shipping plenty of soldered 4gb macs and charges $200-$300 for 16GB.
Just to point out how amazingly affordable ram is, so cheap, you could give OSX such breathing space with 8gb or 16gb on your Mac, yet Apple solders ram, plenty of Macs with 2gb and 4gb of soldered ram that will never ever be able to be upgraded. It's just deplorable how such an easy, affordable and helpful upgrade is being killed by Apple.
[doublepost=1459579690][/doublepost]Here's a base Mac Mini, with $300 option to upgrade to 16GB, while 16GB ram is currently costing $60 on amazon. It's just ridiculous.
Edit:
Added amazon pricing for reference:
Last edited:
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
I hadn't checked ram prices in a while and came across a discount recently, this sort of blew my mind:
$25 8GB DDR3 1600 SO-DIMM
$60 16GB DDR3 1600 SO-DIMM
http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-PC3-1...d=1459578447&sr=8-1&keywords=DDR3+SO-DIMM+8gb
In the meantime Apple keeps manufacturing and shipping plenty of soldered 4gb macs and charges $200-$300 for 16GB.
Just to point out how amazingly affordable ram is, so cheap, you could give OSX such breathing space with 8gb or 16gb on your Mac, yet Apple solders ram, plenty of Macs with 2gb and 4gb of soldered ram that will never ever be able to be upgraded. It's just deplorable how such an easy and affordable upgrade is being killed by Apple.
[doublepost=1459579690][/doublepost]Here's a base Mac Mini, with $300 option to upgrade to 16GB, while 16GB ram is currently costing $60 on amazon. It's just ridiculous.
That's true, but to be fair, just a year and a few months ago, 16GB ram was going for around 200. Hopefully they'll get with the times and realize this is a ripoff now. But I think people need to be more reasonable. In 2010 it was more expensive to upgrade my mac than to buy it high spec from Apple. Right now it seems to be the other way around. Market prices shift all of the time and big companies, like Apple, aren't just going to immediately adjust their prices due to external components. In a perfect world, Apple would adjust their business models on a weekly basis, just for us po folk. Sadly, the world sucks. But I do agree, if Apple allows this gouging of lower cost parts, much longer, THEY suck. Till then, consider the variables.
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
You do raise a great point, and in fact in past mac purchases I've consciously avoided upgrading ram not because I didn't need or want it, but at the time ram was cost prohibitive. And I'd wait until prices would go down to upgrade. That's the beauty of expandable RAM. At $25 for 8GB example, an upgrade is a no brainer for a 4gb machine.
[doublepost=1459585107][/doublepost]For reference, ram pricing for 16GB oscillated between $55 and $165, never remotely close to the $300 Apple is charging:
Last edited:
Nah. I'm referring to the lowest priced 21.5" model... erm, that's why I said base model.
RAM purchased from apple was ALWAYS at least double (mostly at least three times) the price of a single purchase of third party RAM in the Internet.
I think apple themselves payed less than half of this price - so you have to multiply again profit margins with two.
While I have no problem with paying apple the same price or even a little bit more than what I´d pay myself as a simple customer in the internet (which should be enough) I hate the greed without any limit and respect for the customers. Force a customer to pay 4-6 fold the NORMAL price just for simple RAM is simply humiliation and non-respect of a free customer, nothing else.
Not to mention blocking easy and fast test and repair of failing RAM (had this 2 years ago, took me just some minutes to exchange the RAM) if this happens (and it happens).
In some years apple will face a lot of angry customers who are THEN realizing having purchased useless products with soldered Ram and SSDs and who will have to live for a week or two without their machines because it is necessary to send them for a repair. And with soldered SSDs apple does a bad job about privacy because people are forced to send their machines with all the data on the SSD.
Customer will brutally realize that apple gives a s*** on their needs, usability and on customer service.
And prices for still upgradable "old" apple products will be pretty stable or even go up…
There will be a third party market for soldering new RAM/SSDs in apple products. It´s a shame for apple, but it will at least create some jobs more in the first world instead of creating them in China. This happened already since 2011 for repair of failing dGPU in MBPs (while apple refused to admit this design flaw and refused for YEARS to help their customers as they should have done).
Too much arrogance NEVER led to a happy end in industrial history…
even Microsoft learned that lesson…. apple will also learn this - maybe by taking the hard way to comprehend.
apple´s hardware is by no means better than any of their competitors.
The only thing that once was better is their operation system. We pay about 500-1000 USD (= 3-5 fold the price of windows 10) more for a MBP just because it comes with OSX. So - their software is in fact the most expensive OS worldwide.
They can hide this by selling both together - but how long?
Their software quality is getting less and less stable and less reliable… and their competitors are getting nearer and nearer in ergonomics and adapting their software for customer needs. In some points competitors OS are already better than apple´s (Windows for phones was already 5 years ago)
If apple stays on their too greedy way they will lose importance.
I think apple themselves payed less than half of this price - so you have to multiply again profit margins with two.
While I have no problem with paying apple the same price or even a little bit more than what I´d pay myself as a simple customer in the internet (which should be enough) I hate the greed without any limit and respect for the customers. Force a customer to pay 4-6 fold the NORMAL price just for simple RAM is simply humiliation and non-respect of a free customer, nothing else.
Not to mention blocking easy and fast test and repair of failing RAM (had this 2 years ago, took me just some minutes to exchange the RAM) if this happens (and it happens).
In some years apple will face a lot of angry customers who are THEN realizing having purchased useless products with soldered Ram and SSDs and who will have to live for a week or two without their machines because it is necessary to send them for a repair. And with soldered SSDs apple does a bad job about privacy because people are forced to send their machines with all the data on the SSD.
Customer will brutally realize that apple gives a s*** on their needs, usability and on customer service.
And prices for still upgradable "old" apple products will be pretty stable or even go up…
There will be a third party market for soldering new RAM/SSDs in apple products. It´s a shame for apple, but it will at least create some jobs more in the first world instead of creating them in China. This happened already since 2011 for repair of failing dGPU in MBPs (while apple refused to admit this design flaw and refused for YEARS to help their customers as they should have done).
Too much arrogance NEVER led to a happy end in industrial history…
even Microsoft learned that lesson…. apple will also learn this - maybe by taking the hard way to comprehend.
apple´s hardware is by no means better than any of their competitors.
The only thing that once was better is their operation system. We pay about 500-1000 USD (= 3-5 fold the price of windows 10) more for a MBP just because it comes with OSX. So - their software is in fact the most expensive OS worldwide.
They can hide this by selling both together - but how long?
Their software quality is getting less and less stable and less reliable… and their competitors are getting nearer and nearer in ergonomics and adapting their software for customer needs. In some points competitors OS are already better than apple´s (Windows for phones was already 5 years ago)
If apple stays on their too greedy way they will lose importance.
Last edited:
I hadn't checked ram prices in a while and came across a discount recently, this sort of blew my mind:
$25 8GB DDR3 1600 SO-DIMM
$60 16GB DDR3 1600 SO-DIMM
http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-PC3-1...d=1459578447&sr=8-1&keywords=DDR3+SO-DIMM+8gb
In the meantime Apple keeps manufacturing and shipping plenty of soldered 4gb macs and charges $200-$300 for 16GB.
Just to point out how amazingly affordable ram is, so cheap, you could give OSX such breathing space with 8gb or 16gb on your Mac, yet Apple solders ram, plenty of Macs with 2gb and 4gb of soldered ram that will never ever be able to be upgraded. It's just deplorable how such an easy, affordable and helpful upgrade is being killed by Apple.
[doublepost=1459579690][/doublepost]Here's a base Mac Mini, with $300 option to upgrade to 16GB, while 16GB ram is currently costing $60 on amazon. It's just ridiculous.
Edit:
Added amazon pricing for reference:
Totally agree that this is ridiculous.
It's not the economics of it that are even the most egregious thing, it's also the fact that this goes against a lot of apple's core values. Apple is supposed to be a company that's all about shipping only great products, and never shipping junk. 4GB? Really? And for that price? That makes a great product? I don't think so.
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
You do raise a great point, and in fact in past mac purchases I've consciously avoided upgrading ram not because I didn't need or want it, but at the time ram was cost prohibitive. And I'd wait until prices would go down to upgrade. That's the beauty of expandable RAM. At $25 for 8GB example, an upgrade is a no brainer for a 4gb machine.
[doublepost=1459585107][/doublepost]For reference, ram pricing for 16GB oscillated between $55 and $165, never remotely close to the $300 Apple is charging:
Screw this discussion! I love how you do your homework and share your findings with us! Bra FKN VO!
Back on discussion, that is all correct. I mean don't take my word for it, as your graphs speak volumes. BUT, I will say 165 is too low. I'm huge on research, as you are. In this case where it is relevant, is that when I buy, I exhaust all avenues before making a purchase. I am not a rich man, but I have nice things because of this. So when I upgraded the ram in my mid 2010 (I believe I did this in 2014), at the time the absolute cheapest I could find it for was 180, on eBay. I can't prove it as I don't have receipts and screen shots, but the only place I didn't look for a deal, was up a computer tech's ass. Fifteen dollars doesn't seem like a big deal, but in the grand scheme of Apple things, when every body seems to cry over a penny, it makes a big difference as far as perspective.
Now here's where the "variables" comes into play; Apple knows damn well that 80 percent of people (probably an over exaggeration) who claim "education" to get the discounts, is indeed not a student. So personally, my 16GB upgrades always only costed me around 200 for my most recent Macs. This is just one little variable in the complex web of cost, when it comes to Apple. In my opinion, and feel free to graph my opinion to hell, I believe where Apple sticks it to us, is in their refurbished items. Otherwise I almost completely agree with your point on ram, especially now that it's gotten so cheap, but my agreement is completely reliant on which year, which particular Mac, and other... Variables.
Seriously though, you're a pleasure to discuss with and I promise you if I weren't an insomniac mess right now, I'd pay you the same respect with fine research and solid evidence in the form of graphs and other screen shots.
I'm gonna be honest. I didn't read the rest of your post because it starts with an absolute falsehood, so I don't know what else you put. I just felt compelled to call out the statement that I quoted as an absolute incorrect claim. With all due respect.
So you are saying that Apple pays full retain, when they place orders for RAM in the millions of units range?
I realize that no one is taking into account the automated soldering of RAM onto the motherboard. But the capex on these robots was recovered YEARS ago at this point.
*ROTFL*
BTW: The same game as for RAM is done by apple for SSD-charges. apple charges at least the double of the street-price of equal SSDs. Hard to deny for you.
It is very amusing that there are still some people ignoring reality, denying apple´s customer-hostile policy or/and apologizing apple for their customer-unfriendly policy about RAM and SSD. Stockholm-Syndrome?
"with all the respect" : YOU are the one not being honest if you really claim that apple charged just the normal market-price for RAM (or for SSD?).
But you are free to continue with your fairy-tales about apple-RAM (and SSD?) prices as you like.
I doubt anyone will believe in fairy tales…. at least no person capable to read apple price-listimng and look at market-prices...
Have a good day.
edit: Of course you "did not read the rest of the posting" Would be hard to apologize apple - so the only chance is to pretend not having read…. *ROTFL*
Examples:
apple charges 200 EUR MORE for just 8 GB more Ram in the actual rMBP 13" -
200 EUR!!!
and 200 EUR more for just 256 GB SSD instead of 128 GB!!!!
and 600 EUR more for a 512 GB SSD instead of 128 GB (including a pseudo-upgrade on a 2,9 instead of 2,7 MHz CPU just to hide the prohibitive pricing - you can only purchase both together).
As for 15" rMBP:
360 EUR more just for 256 GB ---> 512 GB (= ordering nothing but 256 GB more SSD! = 1,40 USD/GB!!!)
and
scandalous 960 EUR more for 256GB---> 1 TB SSD (= 960 EUR for 750 GB more = 1,30 USD/GB!!!)
a grand for 750 GB more SSD capacity!!!
NOT ANY person with good mental health would buy this - the only way for apple to sell for scandalous prices is to solder SSDs and/or use "proprietary connections" and so forcing/Blacklisting their "customers" to pay 1,000 EUR more for a nowadays standard capacity SSD…
On the free market similar top-Samsung SSD are sold:
SSD 128 GB = 110 USD
SSD 256 GB = 186 USD
SSD 512 GB = 300 USD
now it is easy to calculate…. apple charges 360 USD instead of a market difference of just 114 USD ---> 2,46 fold market price. I bet they don´t pay more than half for them.
So profit marge for apple 250% to 500%… so much for reality.
So - as I said - apple charges always at least double, often near 3 fold the market price for RAM and SSDs… I would name that not customer-friendly. 100-150% Profit would be more customer-friendly.
That´s why many customers don´t buy new apple products no more. They are no fools.
Last edited:
That`s all part of the Apple "magic"
There is merit from a reliability point of view by reducing the number of internal connections, equally greater merit on Apple`s behalf to ensure all upgrades are at point of purchase and in-house, also reducing manufacturing costs. Apple has always notoriously ramped up their margins on in-house upgrades and will likely to continue, as realistically there is no competition for the Mac within the OS X environment.Apple`s real magic is the spectacularly clever and manipulative sales & marketing, getting people to buy into everything they say so deeply it`s almost like a religion to some. Apple is a purveyor of consumer based electronics, they have higher margins as they manage their business & cultivate their customers in a much smarter fashion than the majority of others, nothing more or less.
Personally speaking given the situation and Apple`s complete control over the hardware, the upgrade options are grossly over priced. Apple simply takes advantage of the percentage of it`s user base that requires a higher specification to bolster it`s profit margin. Good business or greed? Difficult question to answer concisely, equally if your customers feel that greed is a component of pricing it may not sit so well, equally you are right back to no competition within a specific OS.
Another factor is Apple really wants to sell more IOS devices as their margins are far better than with the typical Mac by a significant number, with IOS devices being simpler to design and produce. Of course the higher the spec, Apple gouges you that much deeper. This and this alone is why Apple wants to kill the PC, of course by design you will likely need to source ever more of your media from Apple with IOS being more locked down. With this in mind Apple has little incentive to drop pricing on any aspect of it`s Mac line up.
For myself I only buy Apple product`s that work for me, I choose the specification for the expected period of use. I don't have to much issue with the offered specifications of the system I purchase Some systems are poorly specified for the price point, equally the same systems offer entry level Mac kudos.
As for the original question IMHO since the inception of the smartphone there has been a progressive "creep" towards consumer devices that offer little if any upgrade path, this has transcribed into tablets and now notebooks and even desktops. As "we" the consumer demand faster, lighter, thinner devices Apple is simply responding to the developments in technology (manufacturing) and customer expectation, adding in their own "spin" to maximise profit and clearly they very much understand this irrespective if you/we agree or disagree with Apple`s strategies.
Q-6
Last edited:
LOL, so many apologetic Appleboys. I love such threads.
There is always a way to say "yes, indeed, this sucks, but this is just how the things go for the average Joe, get used to it" like e. g. maflynn did. But no, they will deny the obvious and say they like to pay more, they need this millimetre saved on soldering the RAM, it will give, like, +100500h battery life, they will not use dGPU so it will not fail (sorry to upset you, it will nonetheless).
OWC SSD? Besides their inferiority and price, they've been launched like what, a month ago? rMBP 2013 has been launched some years earlier if you know what I'm saying.
Anyway you could always go to the service centre and ask them to change original 128 GB SSD to original bigger SSD, right? Right? It would only cost you like half of new rMBP. A little, two times difference compared to the standard, non-soldered ones.
External HDD? Just don't get me started. Slow, heavy, big, ugly, cords etc.
8 GB RAM is enough for everyone? 640 KB anyone?
Oh, "you could always upgrade SSD"? Maybe you would stop using this wrong word "upgrade"? "You could always initially buy more than you're sure you need, just in case" - that's much better. And for quite a premium, as demonstrated above.
And no, you cannot upgrade. Upgrade means not only more space, but newer technology as well. And this is not the case for Apple - you cannot install newer SSD, you could only install inferior OWC or the original one using technology of the year it was produced in, not current.
Yeah, yeah, just don't buy Apple. You're free to buy anything else if you don't like it. Right? Right. I'm also free to still buy Apple nevertheless. I'm also as free to criticize them as you to fanboy them.
And to be fair, critics is better. You see, without critical approach there would be no perfection Jobs strived to achieve.
There is always a way to say "yes, indeed, this sucks, but this is just how the things go for the average Joe, get used to it" like e. g. maflynn did. But no, they will deny the obvious and say they like to pay more, they need this millimetre saved on soldering the RAM, it will give, like, +100500h battery life, they will not use dGPU so it will not fail (sorry to upset you, it will nonetheless).
OWC SSD? Besides their inferiority and price, they've been launched like what, a month ago? rMBP 2013 has been launched some years earlier if you know what I'm saying.
Anyway you could always go to the service centre and ask them to change original 128 GB SSD to original bigger SSD, right? Right? It would only cost you like half of new rMBP.
A little, two times difference compared to the standard, non-soldered ones.External HDD? Just don't get me started. Slow, heavy, big, ugly, cords etc.
8 GB RAM is enough for everyone?
640 KB anyone?Oh, "you could always upgrade SSD"? Maybe you would stop using this wrong word "upgrade"? "You could always initially buy more than you're sure you need, just in case" - that's much better. And for quite a premium, as demonstrated above.
And no, you cannot upgrade. Upgrade means not only more space, but newer technology as well. And this is not the case for Apple - you cannot install newer SSD, you could only install inferior OWC or the original one using technology of the year it was produced in, not current.
Yeah, yeah, just don't buy Apple. You're free to buy anything else if you don't like it. Right? Right. I'm also free to still buy Apple nevertheless. I'm also as free to criticize them as you to fanboy them.
And to be fair, critics is better. You see, without critical approach there would be no perfection Jobs strived to achieve.
Last edited:
This is how you know that soldered RAM is all about Apple milking its customers for more money:
Why do the Mac Mini and the iMac have soldered RAM?
Do the Mac Mini and the iMac have batteries? No.
Why do the Mac Mini and the iMac have soldered RAM?
Do the Mac Mini and the iMac have batteries? No.
Last edited:
source:
https://www.macrumors.com/2016/04/04/iphone-se-component-cost-estimate/
So much for the reasons why apple also refuses to have exchangeable micro-SD-cards for their iPhones…. apple likes to WIN additional 89 USD for 48GB more which costs them not more than 11 USD…. so a profit of 800% for 48GB more memory…. I´d name that greed out of control...
Last edited:
You can't say that Microsoft doesn't with Office365, or RHEL doesn't with support and upgrades, so what if they want to make a dollar.
B-b-but R&D costs a lot! They basically make no money at all. iPhone is charity to the society!
Office 365 is $100/year for 5 PCs + 5 tablets + 5 phones and include 1 TB online storage + 60 minutes per month on Skype
That's very generous.
iCloud (alone) costs $10/month for 1 TB (so that's $120 per year)
Not sure what's up with RHEL.
Just to add this:
a micro SD card with 32 GB capacity costs only about 12 USD (Street-price).
...
a micro SD card with 32 GB capacity costs only about 12 USD (Street-price).
...
The iWork equivalent is still $0/yr for unlimited? Macs and iDevices, I doubt someone would use 1 TB of storage on an iPad so I'm going to go with the $12/yr 50 GB plan, because I will say the free 5 GB is not enough. With FaceTime audio, Skype is not longer relevant. Generous: not so much, cheaper: yes. It's about thinking practical, if Windows works for you, then by all means use a Surface, if you prefer iPad or Mac OS then go for that.