Other Why are we not DEMANDING a return to replaceable batteries?

[boltjames]

Why are we not DEMANDING a return to replaceable batteries?

Paul

Because you are not in a position to demand anything.

Buy an iPhone or don't. For every 1 of you who aren't happy there are 10,000 who are and we don't want to go back to the dark ages of snap-in replaceable batteries. Battery dying? Go to the mall kiosk, spend the $29 and move on. Pay for the consumables you wear out. No free rides.

 

[iHateMacs]

If Apple charge (or used to charge) $79 for a battery replacement, I think that is reasonable anyway.

By the time the battery is failing, I will want a new phone anyway.

 

[BarracksSi]

But never mind. [sarcasm on]This has truly been a very illuminating "discussion" [/sarcasm] and clearly there isn't any point in my continued participation. Enjoy.

Paul

Tell me you were honestly expecting an online discussion to go the way you wanted.

 

[pgoelz]

Tell me you were honestly expecting an online discussion to go the way you wanted.

I had no expectations of any particular direction for the dialog. I started it to see if the concept had some traction, not to steer it or reinforce my beliefs. I did expect a somewhat more rational discussion, though. But no matter.... i asked and the group has spoken and there seems to be zero interest among you in a return to replaceable batteries. Less than zero, actually. I will admit, that was a surprise.

Paul

 

[BarracksSi]

I had no expectations of any particular direction for the dialog. I started it to see if the concept had some traction, not to steer it or reinforce my beliefs. I did expect a somewhat more rational discussion, though. But no matter.... i asked and the group has spoken and there seems to be zero interest among you in a return to replaceable batteries. Less than zero, actually. I will admit, that was a surprise.

Paul

There were some who behaved more "rationally", I guess, but still came up with the same answer -- "No" -- as people who used harsher words.

Honestly, I'm still amazed by the sheer amount of computing power, which is magnitudes more powerful than anything we could carry on our person ten or fifteen years ago, that can manage to run for a full day without being plugged into a wall outlet.

 

[boltjames]

I had no expectations of any particular direction for the dialog. I started it to see if the concept had some traction, not to steer it or reinforce my beliefs. I did expect a somewhat more rational discussion, though. But no matter.... i asked and the group has spoken and there seems to be zero interest among you in a return to replaceable batteries. Less than zero, actually. I will admit, that was a surprise.

Paul

No problem, Paul, and thank you for your contribution.

One point of clarification though: iPhone batteries are replaceable. Apple has just lowered the price of a replacement to $29 and the largest third-party battery replacement service, iFixit, is matching their price. It's not a swappable battery, but it is easily replaceable, takes less than 30 minutes at a mall kiosk near you.

Apple could have designed iPhone with a legitimately irreplaceable battery. That would have been bad. That's not the case. Go to the mall, get a cup of coffee, pay the $29, done for another 2+ years. Cheaper than an oil change.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I had no expectations of any particular direction for the dialog. I started it to see if the concept had some traction, not to steer it or reinforce my beliefs. I did expect a somewhat more rational discussion, though. But no matter.... i asked and the group has spoken and there seems to be zero interest among you in a return to replaceable batteries. Less than zero, actually. I will admit, that was a surprise.

Paul

In my experience and as highlighted here, the engineering compromises for user replaceable batteries are simply not worth it. And then there is the cost factor, in order to reduce the engineering compromises to a bare minimum the chances are that any such batteries are highly bespoke in shape and specifications. As such the cost benefit of manufacturing, distributing, stocking and dealing with returns of a large variety of shapes and sizes just doesn’t make any logical sense. Producing and retailing an official version wouldn’t be less than $79 in my estimate. As another point that hasn’t been taken into consideration is that most people never have actually changed their battery.

I do not know a single person in my circle of friends who have had to replace their battery on their iPhone. Not privately and not professionally. They may have done ofcourse as it isn’t the most exciting conversation topic, but it isn’t a huge deal.

I bet more people will try it on now but purely because of the news, not that they encountered the actual symptoms.

 

[Closingracer]

I said I was done with this discussion but I had to drop back in and answer this logic. For some reason I stopped getting Email notifications and didn't realize this thread had continued.

No, my iPhone SE is the FIRST iPhone I have owned. I bought it because I wanted a smaller form factor phone than was available in the Android world and at $149 was too good to pass up. I like the build quality and hope to get a couple years minimum out of it before I choose to upgrade.... either due to diminished battery life or desired new features. I also chose the SE because if I ever do need to replace the embedded battery it does not look that difficult.

You all missed my point re: replaceable batteries..... it has NOTHING AT ALL to do with wanting to be able to swap on the go for longer run time. I find the run time (with a new battery, at least) on the SE (as well as my Android and Windows phones) is better than I was hoping for and is very acceptable.

What I want is the ability to replace the battery.... the ONLY life limited component in my phone.... when the performance drops below whatever I determine to be my personal minimum. Yes, you can do that with an iPhone but $79 to have Apple do it is a LOT higher than what it would be if the battery was simply considered a spare part and user replaceable.

As for all the assumed negative trade offs to return to user replaceable batteries...... go ahead and believe what you want. If you don't believe it is possible to design a water resistant phone with a replaceable battery, I probably can't change your mind. If you are happy with non-replaceable batteries, that's fine too. I only started this thread in response to the multitude of complaints about phone performance degradation due to degraded batteries. Making them replaceable would make all of that go away and it seemed a logical time to bring it up. If you don't agree, fine.

Sorry if I bothered you all.... I'm a retired engineer and by nature I'm kinda hardwired to identify and solve problems 😉 Returning to replaceable batteries and retaining things like water resistance is very possible so it seemed natural to bring it up. I'm real sorry I did 😉

Paul

Because I'm wanting a replaceable battery with my note 8. My phone lasts long enough for my use for daily use unless I'm using something like Google maps for nav or watching video

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Because I'm wanting a replaceable battery with my note 8. My phone lasts long enough for my use for daily use unless I'm using something like Google maps for nav or watching video

If you haven't got a point where you can top it up or plug it in for navigational use like the cigarette lighter in a car or build in USB...then the wide variety of battery packs are really useful since you don't have to switch off your device like with changing a battery and can continue to use it...

 

[Applejuiced]

I would love to have a user replaceable battery instead one that we cannot do anything with.
We're at the mercy of Apple when it comes to batteries.
Even when they are defective, or they dont hold charge and turn off at 40% they will lie to us and tell us the battery is fine and within specs.
Total BS.
And even if we offer to pay out of pocket for a new battery they will not allow it.
So then you have to risk either going with a questionable 3rd party solution not knowing how good that part or service will be and in the meantime void any warranty you might have or make the device not ever be able to be serviced by Apple.
Its a win win for Apple, lots of restrictions and total reliance on Apple to get their permission to pay to replace your own battery.
Apple has too much control over our devices IMO.

 

[pika2000]

There are still phones with user replaceable batteries. Why aren't you buying those?

 

[boltjames]

There are still phones with user replaceable batteries. Why aren't you buying those?

Apple is awful. They are the worst. So I will keep buying their products.

 

[pika2000]

Apple is awful. They are the worst. So I will keep buying their products.

Yeah, that's the hilarious part. Unless they are all trolls. 😀

 

[Black Tiger]

Yeah, that's the hilarious part. Unless they are all trolls. 😀

This whole battery “issue” is a gold mine for trolls. Apple did respond with a reasonable solution aka lowered battery replacement cost.

 

[44267547]

Apple has too much control over our devices IMO.

But they don't have enough control over where you have choices to abandon the iPhone and find another smart competitor, do you not? If you don't trust Apple, then perhaps find a smart phone manufacture that you do.

 

[tomjleeds]

I would love to have a user replaceable battery instead one that we cannot do anything with.
We're at the mercy of Apple when it comes to batteries.
Even when they are defective, or they dont hold charge and turn off at 40% they will lie to us and tell us the battery is fine and within specs.
Total BS.
And even if we offer to pay out of pocket for a new battery they will not allow it.
So then you have to risk either going with a questionable 3rd party solution not knowing how good that part or service will be and in the meantime void any warranty you might have or make the device not ever be able to be serviced by Apple.
Its a win win for Apple, lots of restrictions and total reliance on Apple to get their permission to pay to replace your own battery.
Apple has too much control over our devices IMO.

Good job they've backed down on that today then.

 

[bjrjar]

There wouldn’t have been a problem if Apple had built-in a text explanation along with user selectable option to activate the “slow down” option or not. The big problem is lack of transparency originally and user option ability.

My opinion,

Bob

 

[Sowelu]

I personally don't want a battery door/cover on my phone, and the way batteries are strategically formed and fitted into current slim phones, it would probably force OEMs to use smaller capacity batteries to make them user replaceable. Also, I don't keep my iPhone long enough for the battery to die completely. And, if it does, AppleCare will replace it when necessary. I upgrade yearly, or every two years at the most.

 

[boltjames]

I personally don't want a battery door/cover on my phone, and the way batteries are strategically formed and fitted into current slim phones, it would probably force OEMs to use smaller capacity batteries to make them user replaceable. Also, I don't keep my iPhone long enough for the battery to die completely. And, if it does, AppleCare will replace it when necessary. I upgrade yearly, or every two years at the most.

Agree on all points.

When a manufacturer puts a 2 year warranty on a product dependent upon consumables, it's aligned to its longevity. Everyone knows this. Those of us who only lease our cars know nothing of things like engine repairs, transmission maintenence, brake replacements, tune up's, etc.

I wouldn't know the cost of a set of tires if you put a gun to my head. I haven't bought a set in 20 years. They come for free on my cars and by the 36th month I've got a new car and it comes with new tires. People who hold onto their cars for 5 years, 10 years, 15 years.....these are known issues and expenses related to consumables and they know it comes with the turf.

If you listen to the manufacturer and get a new iPhone every 2 years you won't have an issue with this throttling stuff at all. If you go out of warranty and try to game the system to stretch every penny out of your iPhone, expect that your consumables won't make it and budget yourself accordingly. Batteries are the first to go. Then buttons. Then cases. These aren't made to last forever nor should anyone have that expectation.

 

[newellj]

I had no expectations of any particular direction for the dialog. I started it to see if the concept had some traction, not to steer it or reinforce my beliefs. I did expect a somewhat more rational discussion, though. But no matter.... i asked and the group has spoken and there seems to be zero interest among you in a return to replaceable batteries. Less than zero, actually. I will admit, that was a surprise.

Paul

You got a lot of very coherent reasons for non-replaceable batteries and why the entire industry, not just Apple, has adopted this choice.
[doublepost=1514911364][/doublepost]

Apple has too much control over our devices IMO.

The other side of that drove me crazy with Android, though. Four parties involved in the phone, none of which seemed terribly motivated to provide even a mediocre product or experience, was at least three too many. The devs write apps in an atmosphere that's mostly The Wild West. The handset manufacturer provided firmware updates on highly irregular bases and abandoned phones very quickly. Carriers would approve firmware updates approximately as frequently and as speedily as Hell froze over. And Google, pahh. I guess the only thing I could find to like about that environment was that no one tried to force firmware updates that were too much for the hardware on me - except that I repeatedly had the opposite problem: hardware that became functionally obsolete not because it got choked with firmware updates but because it didn't get updated at all.

TLDR: there's no perfect answer in this biz. We pick our own poison...

 

[BarracksSi]

The other side of that drove me crazy with Android, though. Four parties involved in the phone, none of which seemed terribly motivated to provide even a mediocre product or experience, was at least three too many. The devs write apps in an atmosphere that's mostly The Wild West. The handset manufacturer provided firmware updates on highly irregular bases and abandoned phones very quickly. Carriers would approve firmware updates approximately as frequently and as speedily as Hell froze over. And Google, pahh. I guess the only thing I could find to like about that environment was that no one tried to force firmware updates that were too much for the hardware on me - except that I repeatedly had the opposite problem: hardware that became functionally obsolete not because it got choked with firmware updates but because it didn't get updated at all.

TLDR: there's no perfect answer in this biz. We pick our own poison...

Given a choice, I prefer that just one manufacturer has control -- and, therefore, a responsibility to maintain -- the product I'm using.

I don't have any Android devices (well, apart from the Android-based infotainment system in my car), so the closest corollary I have is my Win10 work laptop. The annoyance of multiple vendors makes itself known whenever I try to change system settings. I think there are three control panels for the trackpad. Too many hands in the pot, as the saying goes.

 

[lordhamster]

And the smartphone industry itself has moved away from removable batteries and never been an issue

I guess you didn't hear about the Samsung Galaxy Note 7 fiasco? The whole thing would have been a minor issue if they could have just mailed out replacement batteries to everyone. Instead, they ended up having to recall an entire generation of their flagship phone.

So you are right... it has never been an issue in the smartphone industry. 🙄

 

[Applejuiced]

Good job they've backed down on that today then.

That's a great move.
I heard they told their "genius" reps to not deny battery replacement requests even when their little battery test program indicates that the battery is fine.
I dont trust that battery testing that they are using at all.
[doublepost=1514916858][/doublepost]

You got a lot of very coherent reasons for non-replaceable batteries and why the entire industry, not just Apple, has adopted this choice.
[doublepost=1514911364][/doublepost]

The other side of that drove me crazy with Android, though. Four parties involved in the phone, none of which seemed terribly motivated to provide even a mediocre product or experience, was at least three too many. The devs write apps in an atmosphere that's mostly The Wild West. The handset manufacturer provided firmware updates on highly irregular bases and abandoned phones very quickly. Carriers would approve firmware updates approximately as frequently and as speedily as Hell froze over. And Google, pahh. I guess the only thing I could find to like about that environment was that no one tried to force firmware updates that were too much for the hardware on me - except that I repeatedly had the opposite problem: hardware that became functionally obsolete not because it got choked with firmware updates but because it didn't get updated at all.

TLDR: there's no perfect answer in this biz. We pick our own poison...

I dont know, I dont think having a user replaceable battery would be that bad. Especially if Apple themselves sold them then you'd know that its somewhat better than 3rd party batteries purchased elsewhere.

 

[tomjleeds]

That's a great move.
I heard they told their "genius" reps to not deny battery replacement requests even when their little battery test program indicates that the battery is fine.
I dont trust that battery testing that they are using at all.

The tests are indeed ****. Last year my 5's battery started swelling like crazy, they tested it and the diagnostics all came back OK.

Thankfully it was so obviously not OK that they replaced it (the whole handset), admittedly with the $79 equivalent charge.

 

[temna]

With all the talk about battery life, phone throttling, battery ageing, battery replacement cost....... why isn't there a massive tidal wave of us customers demanding that phone manufacturers return to producing phones with user-replaceable batteries?

Especially in usage scenarios involving a full charge every day (ie., 350 charge cycles per year), battery wear out is a given.... and long before the phone is obsolete.

Apple's offer of a $29 battery replacement is a good move (and comparable to the cost of a user-replaceable battery), but that low cost is only temporary for one year.

And finally.... if you think manufacturers made money on your phone, you would be shocked to see what they are making on a $79 battery replacement that consists of a $2 lithium cell, a small cable and connector and some shrink wrap.

Paul

Why would we when it takes like ten minutes and a couple screws to replace them in a waterproof phone?