Other Why are we not DEMANDING a return to replaceable batteries?

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by pgoelz, Dec 29, 2017.

  1. woodynorman macrumors 6502a

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    Nov 26, 2011
    #126
    this
     
  2. C DM macrumors Westmere

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    #127
    In what way?
     
  3. DNichter macrumors 603

    DNichter

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    #128
    Because our current battery situation is just fine.
     
  4. woodynorman macrumors 6502a

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    Nov 26, 2011
    #129
    Because carrying around spare batteries sucks. Sure its nice to get 100% charge in a minute, but keeping spare batteries charged/available when you need them is a hassle. And battery technology has progressed, and charging sources are readily available everywhere now. Wireless charging is improving...soon we'll be able to charge our phones wirelessly anywhere in our homes and businesses.

    Theres plenty more reasons why replaceable batteries are outdated technology

    Why not demand better battery technology?
     
  5. pgoelz thread starter macrumors regular

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    Nov 20, 2017
    #130
    Good point. And one of the reasons I chose the SE. As I think I at least alluded to earlier, the way the phone is put together I consider the SE battery (and some others) to be "replaceable enough". Same for my Nexus 5X that just got a new battery...... not technically user replaceable, but (if you can find a decent battery) certainly a possibility without too many special tools.

    At the current $29 installed cost, I would consider ANY embedded battery to be the functional equivalent of "user replaceable" regardless of how "irreplaceable" it actually was. Not so much at $79.

    Paul
     
  6. C DM macrumors Westmere

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    #131
    One doesn't really have much to do won the other.

    What you are mentioning are perhaps hassles or inconveniences or something else more or less personally subjective, not really something that necessarily regresses technological progress in some way.
     
  7. Allyance macrumors regular

    Allyance

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    #132
    I had my battery in my 6s replaced by Apple at a local store, tech accidentally damaged home button or wiring, got a new phone next day. If a tech can damage your phone, think what the general public would do to theirs?

    So Apple would then have to make phones user friendly and more space would have to allocated to the battery or reduce the size of the battery. Also a problem for water resistance.
     
  8. Closingracer macrumors 68020

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    #133
    Cause the Note 8 or various other ones have exploded as well?
     
  9. woodynorman macrumors 6502a

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    #134
    IMO, wireless is the future. Not replaceable batteries. Consumers want convenience, which truly wireless charging will provide. There will be no need for replaceable batteries in the future
     
  10. Applejuiced macrumors Westmere

    Applejuiced

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    #135
    So wireless charged batteries last forever?
     
  11. 960design macrumors 68020

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    #136
    That would decrease the battery life of the device by 30%.

    Apple batteries are engineered to last 1000 cycles. So you've got three years of taking your battery to zero everyday before you reach the 50% mark.

    Plus research and development, engineering, shipping, Apple Genius, electricity, internet, coffee...
     
  12. C DM macrumors Westmere

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    #137
    The two can exist together without really impacting one another.
     
  13. woodynorman macrumors 6502a

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    #138
    They will still last just long enough to get us to the next cycle :)
     
  14. boltjames Suspended

    boltjames

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    #139
    That’s an interesting point. What exactly is the definition of a “cycle“?

    A person who’s iPhone starts at 100% in the morning, runs down to 55% at bedtime, and gets topped off to 100% the next morning. Is that a cycle? Half a cycle? Not a cycle?

    I myself have never run an iPhone battery down to zero in a day.
     
  15. newellj macrumors 603

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    #140
    A cycle is 100% recharge. Your example is ~0.45 cycles. If you discharge the battery to 70% and recharge to 100%, then discharge to 70% and recharge to 100%, then discharge to 60% and recharge to 100%, that is one recharge cycle.

    Lithium batteries do NOT like to be run down to very low levels, certainly not flat zero.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 2, 2018 ---
    But in this case, I think "cycle" means annual iPhone update cycle? ;)
     
  16. boltjames Suspended

    boltjames

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    #141
    Thank you, great explanation.
     
  17. JediZenMaster Suspended

    JediZenMaster

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    #142

    Why are”you” not demanding. Please don’t act as if you can speak for me and if I want. Tired of you Mac rumors folks who act as if the whole world revolves around you and that the entire forum is a huge monolith and wants and thinks as you do.
     
  18. Applejuiced macrumors Westmere

    Applejuiced

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    #143
    Lol :)
    What about those who don't upgrade their phones yearly though?
    I'm not a big fan of wireless charging. Too slow currently and can't use the phone and charge at the same time.
     
  19. pgoelz thread starter macrumors regular

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    Nov 20, 2017
    #144
    Did you perhaps not read my original post? Where I asked the question "Why are we not demanding replaceable batteries"? That was a question. I was not "demanding" for anyone.... you me, or the guy down the street. I received an answer.... "we" are not demanding because "we" (not including me) are perfectly happy with non-replaceable batteries.

    When I started this thread I was emboldened by the currently 60+ page thread about how people resented having their phones throttled as the battery degraded. But it turns out that either those people never read this thread or in spite of all those complaints, they are not actually looking for a solution.... make it easier / less expensive to replace a degraded battery. I was merely proposing one possible solution. I must say.... the contentious level of discourse and misguided logic here have been eye opening to say the least.

    Paul
     
  20. Sciomar macrumors member

    Sciomar

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    #145
    We've kind of have the multiple batteries thing going on with the advent of the portable charger packs.
     
  21. pgoelz thread starter macrumors regular

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    Nov 20, 2017
    #146
    Not the original intent of this thread. This thread proposed a return to user replaceable batteries to make it easier and less expensive to restore a phone with a degraded battery to like new performance (CPU speed as well as run time). A side benefit would of course be the ability to swap out a discharged battery to get more run time but that wasn't the point I was trying to explore.

    And while we're at it, I just remembered that the very popular (and thin) Samsung S5 had a 2800 mAH user replaceable battery and was water resistant as well. They did it with a gasketed rear cover.

    Paul
     
  22. Sciomar macrumors member

    Sciomar

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    #147
    I read the original post and laughed at it's insinuation to return to the days of carting around extra batteries. Those old cell batteries could barely last through a work day with the "workload" they were performing and would quickly run through their life cycle at the rate we use our devices these days. How quickly people have forgotten, or are just ignorant, of how crappy those days were that they're so eager to demand them back.

    I then read further into the posts and got into a sidebar which seemed a better topic than the original.

    Your desire for users to be able to readily change their batteries on their own while maintaining water-tightness of the form factor, but forgets one thing. Average Jane or Joe are morons and will not be capable of performing this feat, and when they inevitably mess up their device and run screaming for a replacement against their warranty, they'll be turned away for failing to follow instructions on replacement. It's a no win situation, at least with sealed batteries they remove some of the idiot factor.
     
  23. pgoelz thread starter macrumors regular

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    Nov 20, 2017
    #148
    That is more a function of the phone than of the battery. Lithium cells.... at least the type commonly used in phones..... have not changed much in the intervening years other than to get larger and therefore hold more energy. Phones, on the other hand have gotten FAR more efficient and can run a lot longer and do a lot more on the same capacity (ie., physical size) battery.

    Wanting the ability to replace my own battery DOES NOT automatically mean run times will decrease. And of course in the long run it would mean the opposite if you replace a degraded battery with a new one.

    Paul
     
  24. Jimmy James macrumors 68040

    Jimmy James

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    #149
    I'm demanding a return to user replaceable batteries. Right here. Right now.
     
  25. r.harris1 macrumors 6502a

    r.harris1

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    #150
    Paul, just pop in to one of those monster threads you note above for some contentious discourse and misguided logic :). It looks like a lot of people in those threads are upset, but really, if you look closely it's like maybe one or two dozen core people (I've not and am not going to count) posting lots and lots of times saying not much and who, with a few exceptions, aren't willing to go educate themselves on what "Power Management" is on mobile devices. My impression is that many there think there's a magic fairy that does it rather than engineers having to make sophisticated decisions on where and when to provide power and take it away. Across all manufacturers, by the way.

    So, this is a fairly peaceful thread. :)

    To your OP - I'm personally not interested in a user replaceable battery for reasons that others have noted but if you come up with a design for a phone that can meet modern requirements (weight, size, etc), can maintain some level of quality control, water resistance, etc - I'd love to see it!
     

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