Other Why are we not DEMANDING a return to replaceable batteries?

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by pgoelz, Dec 29, 2017.

  1. Relentless Power macrumors Penryn

    Relentless Power

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    #151
    With Apple products, one thing that's always impressed me has been the battery life across their product line. I like how the Apple Watch, iPhone, AirPods, iPad have all been relatively stable with the battery and longevity. At times I feel with other competitor products that might be more cheaply made, don't produce the same battery results that Apple products do. But those have been my experiences.
     
  2. jeremiah256 macrumors 6502a

    jeremiah256

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    Southern California
    #152
    But, this isn’t about engineering or even customer demand. This is about design philosophy, specifically, Apple’s take on tech and how it should look.

    Apple has been trying to simplify and streamline their devices since forever. They remove ports, buttons, options (App Store or bust), access to their devices, etc. They are not going to design anything that ‘pops’ off any of their devices unless they have to. Going with Apple, you either accept their aesthetic principles or choose another vendor.

    They are a luxury brand that many find attractive and useful. I count myself amongst this group. And as a luxury brand, their decisions may not conform to logic as long as they are satisfying the other needs of their customers.
     
  3. Abs_p macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    #153
    It is. It's much more easier to engineer a product with internal battery. Gives you a liberty of being able to organize the components as you would like. Case in point the L shaped battery in iPhone X.
     
  4. JediZenMaster Suspended

    JediZenMaster

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    Seattle
    #154
    So far all I’ve seen is this.

    “Apple should have user replaceable batteries”

    “Apple should lower the price of iPhone X”

    Somehow yet it’s perfectly acceptable for Samsung to not have user replaceable batteries and a higher price point?

    I’ve been on MR for a long time and it just feels like something has changed this year and folks on this forum which does not represent the whole Apple user base are angry over everything Apple does and gives Samsung a free pass.
     
  5. StarShot macrumors 6502a

    StarShot

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    Mar 31, 2014
    #155
    WE? You might, but I'm not.
     
  6. jeremiah256 macrumors 6502a

    jeremiah256

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    Southern California
    #156
    Point taken.
     
  7. DNichter macrumors 604

    DNichter

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    Apr 27, 2015
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    #157
    Same here - I don't really think about charging my devices very often, just throw them on at night. Except for my recently deceased Apple Watch Series 0 - that thing would be dead by noon.
     
  8. newellj, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018

    newellj macrumors 603

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    Boston, MA, US
    #158
    Well, that changes everything! =8^0 :D
     
  9. nebo1ss macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2010
    #159
    Most people sell on their phone and hence they are simply passing the problem down. Having the battery replaced by a phone/Gadget shop is a dubious process at best because Apple do not sell original batteries and what you will get there is either fake or a reused one from an old iPhone. The last time I bought a replacement battery to replace myself it had 300 cycles on the battery.

    We need a better solution for battery location design. in the iPhone 4S for example the battery could be replaced in five or ten minutes.
     
  10. Applejuiced macrumors Westmere

    Applejuiced

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    #160
    Maybe because this is not a Samsung discussion forum and we dont care about Samsung phones?
     
  11. AlphaGuitarist macrumors 6502a

    AlphaGuitarist

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    Nov 12, 2014
    #161
    Agreed 100%. Sometimes, it seems like I'm reading GalaxyRumors.
     
  12. pgoelz thread starter macrumors regular

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    Nov 20, 2017
    #162
    In addition to commenting on misguided logic, I'm also the OP ;) I would call your attention to two phones and a two way radio as examples of how to design a removable battery into a waterproof device.

    First, look at the Samsung S5. It is waterproof (IP67) and gets decent battery life with its user replaceable 2800 mAH battery.... it does it with a gasketed rear cover. It is very thin and in fact if it had a slightly smaller overall outline and an unlockable bootloader I might be using one.

    Second, consider the LG G5. It is not currently waterproof but the replaceable battery slides in and out of one end of an easily sealable enclosure and it would be very easy to gasket the removable end cap and thus render the battery compartment waterproof.

    And lastly, I own a waterproof ham radio walkie talkie. It achieves its waterproof status by making the battery the whole back and placing a simple gasket between the battery face and the radio body.

    Any of those approaches would produce a waterproof phone with a removable battery with currently available tech and minimal (if any) reduction in battery capacity. Who knows what might be possible with a little actual thought?

    Paul
     
  13. whohasaquestion macrumors 6502a

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  14. boltjames macrumors 601

    boltjames

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    #164
    Even if it meant that the phone was bigger, got heavier, was no longer water resistant, held a smaller battery with shorter life, and rattled like a cheap kids toy?
     
  15. kevink2 macrumors 65816

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    Nov 2, 2008
    #165
    Longer battery life on a charge would be worth more to me than user swappable batteries. The only time I really have an issue with the current battery life is when I'm on vacation (photos, possibly being in poor coverage areas). And then, you can be limited on how much you carry along anyway. I now have a portable battery pack to take along.

    If on trip in my own car, a car charger works well.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 4, 2018 ---
    It has been many years, but I remember a push at one time to come out with a "standard" battery for laptops. Every laptop vendor seemed to have their own unique idea of the shape of the replaceable batteries. Different capacities, etc. And not even standard for models within a brand.

    Never really took off. Different sizes were required depending on components in the laptop, size of laptop, etc.

    Then companies like Apple went with builtin batteries. Gave them more flexibility, didn't have to be rectangular, and now laptops have to be serviced too.
     
  16. JediZenMaster Suspended

    JediZenMaster

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    #166
    Fair enough but Apple prices things based on what they know folks will pay as well as also keeping high margins.
     
  17. whohasaquestion macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    #167
    Phones with replaceable battery don't rattle, even the cheap android.

    iPhone is already getting heavier and thicker with non-user-replaceable battery so it's not like the current design is immune from it. Water resistant is a nicety but user-replaceable battery is a better nicety to have.

    Samsung was able to pack 2800 mah battery in G5, this was 3+ years ago. Remind me again the battery size of iPhone 8 plus or iPhone X?
     
  18. cyb3rdud3 macrumors 65816

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    Jun 22, 2014
    Location:
    UK
    #168
    I’m sure they could if people actually wanted that.

    Come on be real, people in the market for the Samsung G5 will not generally be the same in the market for a rolls Royce either ;) it’s good that there are options available for those who truly think they need a replaceable battery.

    I rather have it fully integrated, and for those very rare situations that I’m longer than two days without being able to use a charger I’ll gladly use an external battery pack that is multi functional for my watch, speaker, phone etc.

    With modern day technology there is simply no need for switching off your phone and swapping batteries. Heck here in Perth even park benches have usb charging ports in them. As does my seat in the aeroplane. Or my rental car.

    It’s a solution where back in the day there wasn’t that convenience. It simply is no longer required in the western world.
     
  19. boltjames macrumors 601

    boltjames

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    #169
    I don't know a thing about Android so I have no idea what their hardware is like.

    I am happy about the larger battery in the iPhone X because I am getting outrageously good battery life, when I used to get home after a full workday with 30% left I now average 81%.

    The iPhone 8 and X have a replaceable battery; it just requires a screwdriver or a visit to a local mall kiosk. If you are referring to a swappable battery, no one needs that as iPhone 8 and X have all day battery life or more.
     
  20. pika2000 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    #170
    So, why aren't you using those phones? Oh wait.
    Samsung moved to non-replaceable battery starting with the S6.
    LG, recognizing the G5 flop, moved to non-replaceable battery with the G6. Even the V30 also switched to non-removable.

    What's your point again using old phones, where their own makers have moved away from replaceable batteries?
     
  21. fischersd macrumors 601

    fischersd

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    Oct 23, 2014
    Location:
    Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
    #171
    You really need to take that term out of your vocabulary when talking about electronic devices - "waterproof". None of them are. None of them will be within our lifetimes. "Waterproof" means regardless of duration or depth (think leaving your phone at the bottom of the Marianas trench for 3 years, then retrieve it and it's fine).

    Water resistance is what you're talking about.....and IP67 is far from a robust rating. People mistakingly think that it is because we've seen Apple over-engineer their devices that, while rated as IP67, they're actually much more robust (for the most part). IP67 is supposed to mean "splash proof" in terms of everyday use.

    Will Apple eventually give the iPhone an ISO "swim proof" rating, like the Apple Watch? I don't see it happening anytime soon - just too many seals that would need to be robust permanently....at that point they'd have to cover water damage in their warranty.

    The reason that we won't ever see a user-replaceable battery in an iPhone (as we never have) is because the phone would have to be made more durable and thicker to accommodate the removable back. You would also compromise the efficiency of wireless charging, as the back could no longer be made of glass. The fit of the back would also be compromised the more often that it was removed (as you'll have power users that swap out the batteries regularly).

    Wireless charging is a much better, more elegant solution....in time we'll have far-field wireless charging - the batteries in our phones at that time may be much smaller...just enough to keep your phone charged when you're "out of coverage" from charging zones.
     
  22. BarracksSi, Jan 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018

    BarracksSi Suspended

    BarracksSi

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    #172
    Speaking of laptops —

    Just now, I picked up my work laptop to put in my bag, accidentally pushed the button that releases the battery, and the battery detached. The laptop was asleep, not powered off.

    Dang it. I hope it’s not borked.

    [edit]
    Seems okay. Maybe I was able to catch the battery before the contacts, er, lost contact.
     
  23. newellj macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    Location:
    Boston, MA, US
    #173
    Interchangeable Li batteries is so 2005. Even the Android system has abandoned this dated and limited technology. Here is what you should be pressing Apple to do for the next iPhone - battery pack with six AA cells. Heck, if you wish, you can even use lithium primaries, which I don't think were available when this was new equipment (the label says "use AA alkaline batteries only").

    [​IMG]
     
  24. fischersd macrumors 601

    fischersd

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    Oct 23, 2014
    Location:
    Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
    #174
    Wow! Didn't even know that was an option (AA's)...think the first of those Motorola flips that I had was a Ni-Cad. The brick that baked the whole side of your face while you used it that came previously was too. :) Good ol' analog. :D

    Edit: Wait....I think the first BlackBerry I had that was Mobitex used a AA battery...and lasted about a month from a single battery!!! :)
     
  25. gnasher729 macrumors P6

    gnasher729

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    #175
    What exactly do you mean by "because the batteries are not user replaceable?

    The iPhones that I've owned all looked beautiful. That's something that's important to me. I like beautiful things. A case that can be opened to replace the battery immediately looks ugly. So yes, Apple has certainly sold more iPhones because their cases look nicer without a user replaceable battery.

    I want a battery with the largest possible charge. By not making the battery user replaceable, Apple can save space by removing the bits that need to be opened, have a battery that isn't itself enclosed in a solid case because it is within a solid iPhone, saving space again, have a more "interestingly" shaped battery that fills all the available space and so on. So yes, Apple has certainly sold more iPhones because non-user replaceable batteries can hold a bigger charge.

    And if you tell potential customers that the battery is user replaceable, many will not see the benefits, but the fact that they'll have to replace and pay for a new battery. "What do you mean, I'll have to replace the battery? I'll rather buy a Samsung phone where I don't have a stupid user-replaceable battery". You would have _plenty_ of potential customers doing this. Don't try arguing that this would be stupid. Yes, it is. Many people _are_ stupid.

    And last, I don't care whether the battery is user replaceable. I want it to be replaced easily and cheaply. The battery is Apple Store replaceable, that's good enough for me.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 5, 2018 ---
    One could argue that if Samsung and Apple agree on something, then it's probably a good idea.
     

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