See post #70
Combo Drives burn CD-R's. Combo Drives READ DVD's.
not really sure how the others relate to needing a Superdrive, please clarify.
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Why does apple still sell combo drive !!
- Thread starter rpaloalto
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See post #70
Combo Drives burn CD-R's. Combo Drives READ DVD's.
not really sure how the others relate to needing a Superdrive, please clarify.
Burning a DVD is not even close to being "most of iLife" - that is why you are ridiculous.
See various posts before yours for explanation.
MacSA says not being able to burn DVDs make "most of iLife useless." All of my examples were of things you can still do with iLife - without needing to burn DVDs.
To clarify:
My statements reflect that YOU CAN still do quite a bit WITHOUT a Superdrive. iLife is FAR from "useless" with only a Combo Drive.
Your own post (#41) states that it provides the SOFTWARE necessary to make DVDs, but not necessarily the hardware. Also this is one page buried deep on the site, that requires a good amount of effort to navigate to, and is only one of the many features this advertises.
So still, your argument reading:
Is flawed, because this isn't something that is heavily advertised.
In a word...yes.
If he is going to purchase something he doesn't understand, and without assistance, he should take the time to see what all of those words mean. Again these aren't words that are buried deep within the fine print, these are the few bullet points that list what your are purchasing.
from the apple store website.
Those are CLEARLY listed when you select what you are purchasing. If you do not understand these basic points describing what you are purchasing, then you shouldn't be buying it, end of story.
The same can be said for a car manufacturer, who shows a car on their commercials that includes options like GPS/DVD player/Etc. when the base model has none of these thing...
...except wait, Apple doesn't advertise this on their commercials.
hmmmm.
I missed your point, I kept think you were aruging with me lol. I did not pick up on your sarcasm. But now i get it, im so silly sometimes.
I can't believe people are defending Apple so blindly here. There's been no good response to the fact that adding a SD to every machine would have negligible impact on the retail price and only be a good thing for the end user. Apple makes a big deal about selling premium systems, but intentionally cripples the "cheaper" models so you'll spend more for a bundle of upgrades that you may or may not want, and are all overpriced anyways.
I don't blame Apple for the OP not getting a SD, they're all clearly advertised with what's included in a system, but the point is that there's a certain minimum level of hardware they should be putting into all systems, and that includes DVD burners.
I don't blame Apple for the OP not getting a SD, they're all clearly advertised with what's included in a system, but the point is that there's a certain minimum level of hardware they should be putting into all systems, and that includes DVD burners.
People need to start complaining about Car makers.
There has to be some difference between low end and high end. The cost per machine may be negligle, but then multiply that by the overall number of that model they sell.
This could very well be helping them save money.
Would it be nice for Apple to include SuperDrives on every Model, HELL YEAH.
Are they devil for not doing so, no.
There has to be some difference between low end and high end. The cost per machine may be negligle, but then multiply that by the overall number of that model they sell.
This could very well be helping them save money.
Would it be nice for Apple to include SuperDrives on every Model, HELL YEAH.
Are they devil for not doing so, no.
Selling outdated inferior hardware for a premium is always a great way to save money.
Actually there were several.
The price increase would only marginally reflect the cost of the hardware, and would also reflect the cost of Research and development, as well as other mitigating factors. So just because a super drive would only cost $10-$15 more, it would cost the consumer far more.
If we really want to talk about the real price of these systems, the numbers would be FAR below the $1000 price point.
Why would you choose to buy upgrades you don't want?
In your opinion, that includes a DVD burner.
In my opinion, a DVD burner is a luxury.
I wouldn't use it, I wouldn't plan on using it, and I don't see a point of having one. Any videos I burn I can burn to the cheaper medium of VCDs, or transfer to my ipod for public display. I am very glad that apple has an option present that allows me to own a superior machine, without costly options that I don't want.
Mrgreen--
I (and I'm sure others here) would be absolutely fascinated to see the source of your knowledge on the various costs you talk about. Specifically, you repeat that adding a DVD burner "would have negligible impact on the retail price." That a DVD burner can be bought at retail for $25 or $50 does not mean that that number represents the impact on the retail price of a product.
Further, by offering a model with a combo drive, Apple is offering consumers a choice. As I noted above, if all Macs came with DVD burners, people would criticize them for not having a less expensive option available. So--you make your choice and pay your money.
A quick survey of my telecom friends (who are all extremely technically savvy) shows that out of 14 people I talked to, only 2 have burned DVDs and 8 of them couldn't even say if their computer could burn DVD's or not.
Oh, and the idea that Apple "intentionally cripples the cheaper models" is absurd. It would cost as much to cripple something as it would to enhance it. By your logic, the Dell XPS 210 is intentionally crippled because it only comes stock with a combo drive. Right? That's one of Dell's "premium" products..... Of course that's not true--Dell and Apple are simply offering choice and differentiating their products. So you, the consumer, have the choice.
Best,
Bob
I (and I'm sure others here) would be absolutely fascinated to see the source of your knowledge on the various costs you talk about. Specifically, you repeat that adding a DVD burner "would have negligible impact on the retail price." That a DVD burner can be bought at retail for $25 or $50 does not mean that that number represents the impact on the retail price of a product.
Further, by offering a model with a combo drive, Apple is offering consumers a choice. As I noted above, if all Macs came with DVD burners, people would criticize them for not having a less expensive option available. So--you make your choice and pay your money.
A quick survey of my telecom friends (who are all extremely technically savvy) shows that out of 14 people I talked to, only 2 have burned DVDs and 8 of them couldn't even say if their computer could burn DVD's or not.
Oh, and the idea that Apple "intentionally cripples the cheaper models" is absurd. It would cost as much to cripple something as it would to enhance it. By your logic, the Dell XPS 210 is intentionally crippled because it only comes stock with a combo drive. Right? That's one of Dell's "premium" products..... Of course that's not true--Dell and Apple are simply offering choice and differentiating their products. So you, the consumer, have the choice.
Best,
Bob
Not so much if you consider that Apple is targeting computer illiterates with their products (supposedly, it's so much easier to buy a Mac, because it's an all in one package and you don't have to think about all those GHzs, GBs, +s, -s RW or RAMs).
Who would expect that a company that advertises the Multimedia capabilities of their products so heavily sells you a computer that can't write a DVD? (and actually, I don't believe that there's a huge price difference anymore between a CD and a DVD writer for the manufacturer).
Actually, it's hard to know for somebody who's new in the Apple world that you need a "Super"-Drive to write DVDs..
Why? Apple DID intentionally cripple the iBooks. There was a hack that you could apply in order to be able to use your graphics card with two screens with an extended desktop (by default, only mirroring was enabled).
But you know there is a difference, it is listed plainly anywhere you are going to purchase it.
It is the consumers responsibility to know what they are purchasing, especially when it is spelled out for them that there are differences between the three models.
It is the consumers responsibility to know what they are purchasing, especially when it is spelled out for them that there are differences between the three models.
This is absolutely comical. You know, there really is a very simple solution to all of this...if you really hate combo drives, and truly think that a computer is totally unusable if it has one, simply don't buy a computer that has one in it! Problem solved.
And if you don't have the common sense required to either read the system specs printed on the box, or at least ask someone that knows something first before buying, that's nobody's fault but your own.
And if you don't have the common sense required to either read the system specs printed on the box, or at least ask someone that knows something first before buying, that's nobody's fault but your own.
Hmmm maybe you are seeing demons where there are none.
A perfectly logical explanation is that that R&D did not find the performance adequate for Apple to support such a configuration and turned it off.
Combo Drives are there for extremely price sensitive consumers and the educational market.
As I pointed out there are plenty of things up on the Apple site for OSX or iLife that require specific hardware to function. If you want to make DVD's simply asking the Apple store sales rep would have solved the problem.
This thread is almost as ludicrous as the "Price fixing" one.
I have not read the whole thread to see if this has bene mentioned but even if it has it could stand to be mentioned again. With Apple's model of good, better, best, there has to be a reason for people to want the better and best. One of the ways Apple does this is by using "inferior" components in the "good" model. It probably costs Apple just as much to use a combo drive as it does it use a superdrive but that is not the point. The purpose is to get people to spend more money on a machine that happens to offer a higher margin. Complain all you want be the solution is simple, buy the more expensive model if you don't want the outdated equipment.
What R&D goes into swapping a completely interchangeable part? They're already committed to picking a unit for the models with SD, and configuring the system with it. Standardizing the optical drive would probably SAVE money in design and system construction by eliminating a part that has to be stocked and install.
Because I want a SD and the only way to do that is to, for example, get an x1600 GPU in my iMac, or a 1.83ghz CD in my mini.
Apple bundles the SD into the higher priced systems to get you to buy because they know that while most people want a DVD burner, they aren't to concerned about the 8% speed increase from a 1.66 to 1.83ghz CD and would rather just pay an extra couple dollars for the DVD-RW than $200 more for the CPU, HDD, and SD.
It's not just my opinion. Take a look around at some of the older threads from when they updated the mini. One of the biggest gripes was that you could BTO a SD into the low end machine. You HAVE to buy the $200 more expensive machine to get a $10 upgrade you wanted.
You're reasoning is completely backwards. You can't get the machine that most people are going to want without spending money on costly upgrades!
I'm not saying people shouldn't read the box and get what they want, but Apple doesn't make it easy. Take a look at all of the consumer systems Apple sells. They stopped offering SD as a BTO option on all of them! If you want a DVD burner you are going to have to spend $200 to get it from Apple! For a part that is, at most, $15 AFTER RETAIL MARKUP more than the standard option.
It's completely obvious that they do this to push higher margin machines, while advertising a seemingly low price, and it's ********.
Thank you! They do this stuff ALL THE TIME. Not just firmware hacks like this to keep certain features on more expensive machines, but simply in the hardware they chose. It's better now with Intel, but back in the PPC days we'd see iBooks with ridiculously underpowered GPUs that could have been easily replaced with more recent units at the same or practically the same price so that the PowerBooks would have some sort of edge over the iBook.
If you can't see through the OBVIOUS marketing ploy that Apple is using with DVD burners, you need to wake up and take a look.
It's funny that you people keep using the words "inferior" or "outdated" to describe the combo drive.
How many people actually burn a dvd on a regular basis?
honestly.
How many people actually burn a dvd on a regular basis?
honestly.
Seriously people.
OS X does printing too, it's all over Apple's page. So heavily marketed.
Omg, the iMac doesn't include a printer
Screw Apple, false marketing...
OS X does printing too, it's all over Apple's page. So heavily marketed.
Omg, the iMac doesn't include a printer
Screw Apple, false marketing...
I'm looking at retail pricing of hardware. There's no more than a $15 between the price of a combo and dvd-rw slimline drive retail price. I'm sure I could go out and find the 1000 pc. price of drives and get an exact number, but there's no point. It's obvious that there is a minimal price difference between the two.
You've missed the point entirely. By offering a model with a Combo drive they have reduced choice significantly because Apple doesn't do any significant BTO on consumer machines. You have less choice because in order to get one, very common and inexpensive option, you have to spend $200 on an upgrade package. For the mini that means a bigger HDD and a faster CPU. For an iMac it means a faster CPU and a better GPU. Car dealers have been pulling this for years and years... "want power locks? Oh that comes in a package with power locks, windows, remote entry, alarm, and a premium sound system". All you wanted was power locks, a $100 feature, but you get a $600 package of stuff you didn't want. They've limited your choice by bundling everything in the "good, better, best" structure as another user pointed out.
I used to work telecom, and I'll start by saying those guys aren't always as savvy as they think they are. Second, Apple isn't selling machines (primarily) to those types. Apple's market is "average" people who want to edit up home movies and photos of their trip to Europe into a DVD.
You are clearly new to Apple. Do a search for crippled machines on this forum. They've been doing it for years. They have always underspecced certain machines to make the more expensive models look better. I'm not going to bother trying to convince you of this. Just take a look at Apple's past machines. Again, on your "choice" comment, you have to step back out of the RDF and THINK about what you are saying. Look at the options that Apple offers and really think about their marketing. It's brilliant for sure (part of my job is in marketing now, so I can certainly appreciate it) but it's not very friendly for the consumer.
I go through a few hundred DVD-R's a year, and I'm not alone. I burn backups of my iTunes library regularly, I back up TV shows off my TiVo for later watching, etc. Take a look at the thread from the last mini update, https://forums.macrumors.com/search/?searchid=5483097.
Talk about a strawman argument. Are you people really that caught up in Apple's image? I used to defend Apple users from people who thought they were all elitist lemming zelots. I may have to stop doing that.
You've missed the point entirely. By offering a model with a Combo drive they have reduced choice significantly because Apple doesn't do any significant BTO on consumer machines. You have less choice because in order to get one, very common and inexpensive option, you have to spend $200 on an upgrade package. For the mini that means a bigger HDD and a faster CPU. For an iMac it means a faster CPU and a better GPU. Car dealers have been pulling this for years and years... "want power locks? Oh that comes in a package with power locks, windows, remote entry, alarm, and a premium sound system". All you wanted was power locks, a $100 feature, but you get a $600 package of stuff you didn't want. They've limited your choice by bundling everything in the "good, better, best" structure as another user pointed out.
I used to work telecom, and I'll start by saying those guys aren't always as savvy as they think they are. Second, Apple isn't selling machines (primarily) to those types. Apple's market is "average" people who want to edit up home movies and photos of their trip to Europe into a DVD.
You are clearly new to Apple. Do a search for crippled machines on this forum. They've been doing it for years. They have always underspecced certain machines to make the more expensive models look better. I'm not going to bother trying to convince you of this. Just take a look at Apple's past machines. Again, on your "choice" comment, you have to step back out of the RDF and THINK about what you are saying. Look at the options that Apple offers and really think about their marketing. It's brilliant for sure (part of my job is in marketing now, so I can certainly appreciate it) but it's not very friendly for the consumer.
I go through a few hundred DVD-R's a year, and I'm not alone. I burn backups of my iTunes library regularly, I back up TV shows off my TiVo for later watching, etc. Take a look at the thread from the last mini update, https://forums.macrumors.com/search/?searchid=5483097.
Seriously people.
OS X does printing too, it's all over Apple's page. So heavily marketed.
Omg, the iMac doesn't include a printer
Talk about a strawman argument. Are you people really that caught up in Apple's image? I used to defend Apple users from people who thought they were all elitist lemming zelots. I may have to stop doing that.
I'm really not going to pick apart your rant, but it all boils down a few things.
No matter what your opinion is on the subject, the fact is that there are some people who don't care about a DVD burner (myself included) and are happy that there is a model that caters to them.
No matter what the cost of the hardware is, the cost for implementing that hardware in a system is ALWAYS higher.
The difference between the 3 tiers is MORE than just the super drive. It also reflects a higher cache, bigger HD, more ram, etc. A 1gb ram chip alone is up near $80, a bigger harddrive would cost around $20-$40 more for the extra space in any given brand, and the super drive would cost $20-$30. That ALONE is the majority of the $200 price difference, and that is not including any other costs.
It isn't a scam, it's offering options to different types of people who are buying their products, instead of just catering to one type of person.
After all of that, if you still want to complain that you can't get a SD on a base system, then go buy a god damned Dell.
No one is forcing you to purchase an apple.
No matter what your opinion is on the subject, the fact is that there are some people who don't care about a DVD burner (myself included) and are happy that there is a model that caters to them.
No matter what the cost of the hardware is, the cost for implementing that hardware in a system is ALWAYS higher.
The difference between the 3 tiers is MORE than just the super drive. It also reflects a higher cache, bigger HD, more ram, etc. A 1gb ram chip alone is up near $80, a bigger harddrive would cost around $20-$40 more for the extra space in any given brand, and the super drive would cost $20-$30. That ALONE is the majority of the $200 price difference, and that is not including any other costs.
It isn't a scam, it's offering options to different types of people who are buying their products, instead of just catering to one type of person.
After all of that, if you still want to complain that you can't get a SD on a base system, then go buy a god damned Dell.
No one is forcing you to purchase an apple.