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Naimfan

Suspended
Jan 15, 2003
4,669
2,017
Mr. Green et al.....

Green said: "It's completely obvious that they do this to push higher margin machines, while advertising a seemingly low price, and it's ********." Hmmmm.....you know, I'm not sure, but I think everyone does that.... ;)

On the iMac, what, exactly, is intentionally crippled? Aside from the base model not having a DVD burner... To claim the iBook was intentionally crippled to force Powerbook sales has zero relevance. Perhaps Apple performed a cost-benefit analysis and concluded it was a better overall value to only enable mirroring. There are far too many inputs to a decision like that to assume the only reason that decision was made was to cripple one product to drive sales of another.

Also, what exactly are your sources that allow you to claim that a DVD burner would only add $15 to the retail cost? Surely you don't believe that all DVD burners are the same? If you don't mind using the cheapest part in existence, that might be true--but as noted in another thread, Apple has the lowest failure rate of any personal computer maker, and is trending down--as in, the failure rate is decreasing. So it seems unlikely (to me at least) that Apple would use the cheapest DVD burner available.

Next: "[M]ost people want a DVD burner." According to whom? What's your source?

Green also said: "Standardizing the optical drive would probably SAVE money in design and system construction by eliminating a part that has to be stocked and install[ed]." I agree with you on that--it certainly seems that engineering, purchasing, stocking, installing, etc., one part would be simpler and less expensive than two!

Your chief complaint seems to be that Apple does not provide an option for you to purchase a very specific configuration at a certain price point, and you appear to believe Apple does not represent a good value for the money. That's fine, but what may be true for you does not make it true for all.

Best,

Bob
 

2tallyAwesome

macrumors regular
Jan 16, 2007
194
53
Some people like to bitch because they actually have to use their brains when making major purchases.

It's sad really.
 

wordmunger

macrumors 603
Sep 3, 2003
5,124
3
North Carolina
Dells are cheaper because Dell spends practically nothing on research and development, Dells use an inferior operating system, come with inferior bundled software such as iLife, and they come with less bundled hardware such as iSight and so on. If you don't care about that, buy a Dell.
 

Naimfan

Suspended
Jan 15, 2003
4,669
2,017
Mr. Green--

I think we were typing at the same time!

One thing that was hilarious: "You are clearly new to Apple." You might want to look at my signature...... :D

As far as telecom people not being technically savvy, that is true for some--but not for the ones (8 women, 6 men, incidentally) I' referenced. Besides, such an indirect ad hominem attack just weakens your argument......

We are still waiting for you to put forth a single fact in support of your argument. A DVD burner being available at retail for $15 more than a combo drive is not a fact that supports your argument.

Ultimately, you are simply stating your preference that Apple offer more BTO options. And rather than acknowledge that Apple has made a perfectly reasonable choice that is different than the one you would make if you were running Apple, you are now a step away from accusing Apple of deceptive marketing--a LONG reach!

Finally, you are missing the point--there are two tiers of choice here. The first is Apple's in choosing to offer 4 consumer iMac models, each with clearly defined differences. The second is the consumers'--they can choose which machine to purchase, and their decision is simplified by only having three choices. You are apparently choosing to read "simplified" as "unnecessarily limited." That's fine, but you should recognize that either way is a valid way to perceive the overall. The answer to the complaint that the base level iMac does not have a DVD burner is simple--don't buy it! If you want an iMac with a DVD burner, buy the 2.0 GHz one. If you don't feel the 2.0 GHz one is a fair value, don't buy it.

Best,

Bob
 

snowmoon

macrumors 6502a
Oct 6, 2005
900
119
Albany, NY
Lots of blustering... not a lot of listening.

How many reasons do we have to come up with why a low priced combo drive model would be good for apple? I've seen several good ones already.

You wanted the low end despite being clearly labeled as a combo drive everywhere it is sold... and now you bitch about not being able to make DVD's? Wow..

Somehow apple giving the users a choice "Combo drive" or "Superdrive" is somehow *LIMITING* consumer choice? What is this bizzaro world?
 

Diatribe

macrumors 601
Jan 8, 2004
4,256
44
Back in the motherland
Talk about a strawman argument. Are you people really that caught up in Apple's image? I used to defend Apple users from people who thought they were all elitist lemming zelots. I may have to stop doing that.

Lol.

I was just picking on the argument that just because Apple advertises a software function doesn't mean that all the hardware needed to use it comes with the computer.
If you cannot see that I am sorry. Whether Apple should include it is another question but false marketing they are definitely not guilty of. ;)
 

Osarkon

macrumors 68020
Aug 30, 2006
2,161
4
Wales
All I know is that I ended up paying a lot of money for what was practically just the dvd-rw upgrade in my core duo macbook. And when I actually get around to burning a dvd, I've found out it's faulty. Hm....
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
I'm really not going to pick apart your rant, but it all boils down a few things.

No matter what your opinion is on the subject, the fact is that there are some people who don't care about a DVD burner (myself included) and are happy that there is a model that caters to them.

No matter what the cost of the hardware is, the cost for implementing that hardware in a system is ALWAYS higher.

The difference between the 3 tiers is MORE than just the super drive. It also reflects a higher cache, bigger HD, more ram, etc. A 1gb ram chip alone is up near $80, a bigger harddrive would cost around $20-$40 more for the extra space in any given brand, and the super drive would cost $20-$30. That ALONE is the majority of the $200 price difference, and that is not including any other costs.

It isn't a scam, it's offering options to different types of people who are buying their products, instead of just catering to one type of person.

After all of that, if you still want to complain that you can't get a SD on a base system, then go buy a god damned Dell.

No one is forcing you to purchase an apple.
what are you smoking to think some of that stuff cost that much. A stick of 512 megs of ram is pretty cheap for apple. Like 30 bucks. Apple using value ram for the most part. and some one pointed out all ready the RETAIL price difference between a combo and a DVD burner is 15 bucks. So that easily is less than 10 for apple.

Now lets say the hardware for apple cost 10 bucks (the max). I willing that increase is less than what they would save by the reduces in other cost by simplifying things manufacturer end. So by keeping the combo drive it is increase the cost of making the computer so you people thinking apple doing it for you and making it cheaper it really the other way around. It would more than likely be cheaper for apple to just go with one drive.
 

Cult Follower

macrumors 6502a
Feb 20, 2007
541
0
North Dakota
I have a DVD burner on my MacBook, but I hardly ever use it because my external one is much, much faster.

Also, whenever you spend that kind of money don't you want to know what you are getting. READ THE SPECS!
 

2tallyAwesome

macrumors regular
Jan 16, 2007
194
53
what are you smoking to think some of that stuff cost that much. A stick of 512 megs of ram is pretty cheap for apple. Like 30 bucks. Apple using value ram for the most part. and some one pointed out all ready the RETAIL price difference between a combo and a DVD burner is 15 bucks. So that easily is less than 10 for apple.

Now lets say the hardware for apple cost 10 bucks (the max). I willing that increase is less than what they would save by the reduces in other cost by simplifying things manufacturer end. So by keeping the combo drive it is increase the cost of making the computer so you people thinking apple doing it for you and making it cheaper it really the other way around. It would more than likely be cheaper for apple to just go with one drive.

There are way too many assumptions in that for it to even make sense.

You are assuming the price of the DVD burner, you are assuming you know their manufacturing costs, and you are assuming that the wholesale price should translate to the retail price in any way shape or form.

Just because apple can get something for cheap, doesn't mean they are going to pass it on for that price. This goes for EVERY MANUFACTURER OUT THERE.

Why should you/I receive something for the wholesale price? I mean that would be nice, but it is completely against the entire industry, and capitalism in general. Why would you ever assume that would happen?

...also my figures, were the cost it would require for a consumer to upgrade their own base machine to the 2nd tier level.
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
There are way too many assumptions in that for it to even make sense.

You are assuming the price of the DVD burner, you are assuming you know their manufacturing costs, and you are assuming that the wholesale price should translate to the retail price in any way shape or form.

Just because apple can get something for cheap, doesn't mean they are going to pass it on for that price. This goes for EVERY MANUFACTURER OUT THERE.

Why should you/I receive something for the wholesale price? I mean that would be nice, but it is completely against the entire industry, and capitalism in general. Why would you ever assume that would happen?

...also my figures, were the cost it would require for a consumer to upgrade their own base machine to the 2nd tier level.

sadly there are not to many assumtion in there that have a chance of being wrong.

Ram is cheap. 512 of value ram is really cheap. So 30 bucks for it is high number.

retail price we know is always way off base and high. so a 15 bucks RETAIL difference that translate in to less than 10 bucks difference when buying in the bulk apple buying.

The rest of it in the reduce labor and manufactor cost would make up the rest of the differnce. And even if it did cost them an who 15 bucks more to put it in per computer it would reduced the poor image it is giving apple right now
Simple turth in the matter
PC manufactors $800 computer had the DVD burner standard which so apple $1000 doesnt have a DVD burner.

Low end PC is clear a poor computer than an iMac but the lower end computer has a DVD burner. So people will think a lot less of the iMac because of one lossy piece of software.

no one given a good reason explain why the other manfactors other than apple have 1k or greater computer that does not have a burner standard. And it looks really poor on apple part because apple "claims" to be leading techology yets they lag so far behind there.
 

Scorpius

macrumors newbie
Mar 5, 2007
26
0
You're right. We should be arguing over a Super Drive! Heh, heh...

Sometimes it amazes me how little planning/research/preparation people do when making a big purchase. They might read a few reviews on Amazon and that's it. Maybe they go to the store and are afraid to ask questions, so they buy something, then complain that it doesn't do what they wanted it to do. Spend more than 10 minutes reading into your purchase. Read many reviews, many forums, ask questions online, ask questions in the store. The prepared consumer is the one who makes a smart purchase.

I'm very computer savvy and know exactly what I want in a machine when I look to buy a new one, but I always still do a month or two researching all my options just to be sure that I'm buying exactly what I want.
 

tristan

macrumors 6502a
Jul 19, 2003
765
0
high-rise in beautiful bethesda
Did you ever return the computer or are you still complaining about it? If its not what you want, just return it. Apple sells five different computers in about fifteen different configurations, and if you don't like those, there's fifteen more older models to choose from. There has to be something you like.

I'm not blindly defending Apple, because yeah their bundling strategy annoys me sometimes too. But if you want to solve your problem, just go solve it. I think a Mac Mini or refurb older iMac would work fine for your sister.
 

Mr Skills

macrumors 6502a
Nov 21, 2005
803
1
This is absolutely comical. You know, there really is a very simple solution to all of this...if you really hate combo drives, and truly think that a computer is totally unusable if it has one, simply don't buy a computer that has one in it! Problem solved.

And if you don't have the common sense required to either read the system specs printed on the box, or at least ask someone that knows something first before buying, that's nobody's fault but your own.

This is not about us. It is about people like my elderly parents who do not understand what a "combo drive" is. I don't know what it's like in the US, but in this country, most people don't know any Mac users to ask about this stuff. Magazine articles don't get that specific, and few towns have Apple stores... it's not actually as easy as you make it sound for someone with no technical ability to figure out. Yet that is exactly who Apple's marketing is directed at.




Seriously people.

OS X does printing too, it's all over Apple's page. So heavily marketed.

Omg, the iMac doesn't include a printer :eek: Screw Apple, false marketing... :rolleyes: :p

This is a silly analogy. Printers are never built in to the computer.


I'm very computer savvy and know exactly what I want in a machine when I look to buy a new one, but I always still do a month or two researching all my options just to be sure that I'm buying exactly what I want.

EXACTLY! You are "very computer savvy". Apple's marketing is directed at the computer-illiterate, encouraging them that "everything just works" and heavily emphasising multimedia ability like making movies.

"Most people" don't burn DVDs.

Apple caters to "most people" and not everybody.

Most people don't use Bluetooth. And that is certainly less important to the whole iLife marketing campaign than the ability to put your newly-edited movies onto a format that Auntie Mavis can watch.
 

snowmoon

macrumors 6502a
Oct 6, 2005
900
119
Albany, NY
This is a silly analogy. Printers are never built in to the computer.

But modems were in the past. Tiger proclaims "Faxing, Built In" even though you still need a USB modem to actually support that function...

is that deceptive advertising too?

What about all the pages about iChat and iSight... oops the Mac Mini doesn't have a camera. You have to upgrade to a MacBook or iMac to get a stupid $5 camera. :rolleyes:

Many features of CoreImage and CoreVideo are limited or disables on units without a dedicated video card.

iWeb requires .mac to get many of the convenience functions.
 

BigPrince

macrumors 68020
Dec 27, 2006
2,053
111
Are you blind to my posts?

I have explained that to view make movies and view them DOES NOT require a superdrive. So stop talking about how iLife is "pointless" without a superdrive, because its far from that.

I hope you are going around to Car Deal forums and complaining about their marketing style. There commericials market features that are not available in the LOW END MODEL.

Buying the LOW END MODEL results in not having ALL the features. You want ALL the features then you must purchase HIGH END.

Apple is in the business of making money.
 

Diatribe

macrumors 601
Jan 8, 2004
4,256
44
Back in the motherland
But modems were in the past. Tiger proclaims "Faxing, Built In" even though you still need a USB modem to actually support that function...

is that deceptive advertising too?

What about all the pages about iChat and iSight... oops the Mac Mini doesn't have a camera. You have to upgrade to a MacBook or iMac to get a stupid $5 camera. :rolleyes:

Many features of CoreImage and CoreVideo are limited or disables on units without a dedicated video card.

iWeb requires .mac to get many of the convenience functions.

Exactly the point I was trying to make. Just because Apple advertises a software feature doesn't mean that all models come out of the box with the hardware needed for these features.
 

notsofatjames

macrumors 6502a
Jan 11, 2007
856
0
Wales, UK
personally, i woudlnt pay extra for a superdrive in my iBook, when i have a perfectly good superdrive in my iMac, which you can share. You can burn dvd's from my iBook, using my iMac's superdrive. Why pay for the same thing twice when you can share it. It's like buying a printer for every computer, instead of sharing one on the network.
 
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