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Why does the USA not use the 24 hour clock?
- Thread starter Happybunny
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But kids these days don't even know how to read one!
You're joking, right? My 7-year-old can read these just fine - even with no numbers on it.
As it's been pointed out, there are many people here who use 24h time (often called "military time"), and many others of us who understand it clearly enough to be comfortable with it. I don't use it myself, mostly for two reasons:
(1) I dislike digital clocks. I use one as my bedside alarm clock, because I wouldn't be able to see the hands on an analog clock in the dark without my glasses. (I have one of those clocks with the HUGE digits on it)
(2) Using 12h time really isn't as confusing as people want to make it out to be. "What time do you get out of school?" "Three o'clock." Nobody's going to confuse that with 3am. When dinner is at 6:00, nobody thinks that's first thing in the morning.
Well no, when you use another modifier in the conversation, instead of PM.
I could also leave the house at 8:00 and return at 4:00, and you would not have a clue as to what that meant, without additional information.
It could just as easily be 8 in the morning and 4 the next morning, if you are a teenager that can drink now.
Generally context would fill in the blanks. And if you were leaving at 0800 and returning at 0400 the next day someone's probably going to ask you why in the first place.
Using the 12 hour clock is not objectively better or worse than using the 24 hour clock. Those that think differently are confused.
It could just as easily be 8 in the morning and 4 the next morning, if you are a teenager that can drink now.
Which would not be a factor in the US, where teenagers cannot drink.
Don't forget the Nintendo DS as well as Brother all in ones ONLY display 24 hour time
I don't see what the big deal is. Converting between the two formats is pretty automatic once you get used to it - after awhile the math isn't even necessary.
Gotta love the internet where the trolls turn something so trivial into some US vs. The World penis measuring contest.
Gotta love the internet where the trolls turn something so trivial into some US vs. The World penis measuring contest.
Ah, isn't there a special Appendage inch for that - roughly converting out at a 6 to 9 ratio to normal inches
"Inches or cm"? Poor man.
Centimeters of course. Makes me feel bigger!
Gerbil penises, please.
I'm only a widdle mouse.
These are loaded phrases. The country is not a monolithic entity with unilateral authority over what measures are used (even though that is a power of Congress).
In reality, the measures used are determined by a variety of factors based on context, efficiency, and public expectations.
For example, all civil records for official use are recorded in 24hr format (if you've been cited for a parking or moving violation before, you've seen this). The reason this is done is because the record needs to be efficient at recording the time, and it usually devoid of other context. AM/PM opens up the possibility for more careless errors than using 24 hours, so it is the preferred method.
In everyday interactions, I can't recall an occasion where I've ever had to say "am" or "pm." We usually provide time in context of our daily activities. Your child isn't going to be having a cello lesson at 4am, and you probably won't be meeting someone for dinner at 8am. For 99% of our daily needs, a 24 hour clock would provide no net benefit. For those sectors where a benefit would be realized, it has already been implemented (e.g. in the military, civil records, international communications, etc).
Forcing change where it would provide no benefit is simply a waste. We have more important social problems to deal with than that.
And for the record, I use 24hr on my computer and phone, but wear an analog watch. I can switch seamlessly between the two formats.
The problem lies in the American love-affair with this style clock
But kids these days don't even know how to read one!
Proof perhaps that taste doesn't flow from technicalities.
Basically sums up my POV.
Well no, when you use another modifier in the conversation, instead of PM.
I could also leave the house at 8:00 and return at 4:00, and you would not have a clue as to what that meant, without additional information.
It could just as easily be 8 in the morning and 4 the next morning, if you are a teenager that can drink now.
When was the last time you had a conversation that offer no context? Even if I didn't know where you were headed, I assume I could (or could not) see the sun?
No not joking, and that is great that you or someone took the time to teach your 7-year old, however this is not the case. Ask any school teacher you might be surprised at the answer. There are lots of people who do not know how to read an analog clock. Not all, a lot.
That covers the now, but what about the when, and the then?
Somehow I doubt Johny Every Teen is going to sneak out of the house at 8am to go to a party.
If you can come up with a real life sentence that wouldn't provide the necessary context, I'll grant you that it could matter hypothetically.
Hi Honey... got my hours for next week. On Wednesday I start at 12 and I'm off at 8.
I used to work relief night audit at a hotel... some day shifts, some night audit shifts. Using AM and PM in that sentence would have been important. Am I meeting my wife for breakfast or a late dinner?
Did the day shifts not have a standard start time, or were all the hours completely chaotic from week to week?
In any case, I doubt you'd speak completely without tone or inflection to give a clue about the timing, and subtle words would probably provide context as well (as in, "12 to 8 again" for the undesirable night shift).
There's also the bonus of two synonyms for 12 which are especially dispositive; "I start at noon on Wednesday."
See the problem with these hypotheticals is that they're just too contrived. In reality the people we talk to on a daily basis have a mountain of context. Daily language usage is remarkably imprecise but it functions very well because we're not reading a script; we're living life. We don't need precise direction for every minute detail; our brains have already filled in those details with what's around us, and so have the brains of those we're talking to.
I asked above if you had regular daily shift hours because that's the type of thing your S/O would have known. If 12-8 was your regular shift, it would be implied (you might even skip the times and just say, "the usual shift" or something to that effect). If it wasn't your usual day shift, it would be implied that you were working one of your random night shifts. Granted this can misfire sometimes, but generally we're pretty good at providing enough context, even when things can be as haphazard as an irregular schedule.
Let me take it from the hypothetical and put it into the real...
I worked in a resort town, where everyone's shifts were chaotic. I actually had fairly regular hours.... 3 days a week I worked 8am to 4pm, and then on the 3rd day - the day I worked until 4pm - I came back later that day and started 2 evening shifts - midnight 'til 8am. I could have chosen to work the noon 'til 8pm shift - but then I wouldn't have had the ~2.5 day weekend. This is not a hypothetical - it's what I worked... and I gotta tell you it was murder on the system switching from the night to the afternoon shift each week. On those shifts when I was filling for someone else, there was no context to get the time right... I would nail down explicitly - and repeat back to the front-desk manager in a different way - whether we were talking AM or PM.
I was not alone in this issue. It was a resort town, and people worked all sorts of hours, split shifts, and double shifts. One time when flu hit our hotel two of us were left standing, and we basically swapped 8 hour shifts. So, 8am 'til 4pm - back at midnight 'til 8am - back at 4pm 'til midnight - back at 8am 'til 4pm.... for 3 days.... thank God it was a 3 day flu and not the 7 day variety. AM and PM became - well actually, it didn't matter. By the 3rd day we had no idea if we needed to greet a guest with "Good Morning, checking out?" or "Good Afternoon, checking in?"
You are perfectly correct, I would have used noon and midnight - not 12 and 12. However.... if the hotel had used shifts starting using an 11-7, 7-3, and 3-11 then noon and midnight wouldn't have been relevant.
My "wife" in my example came a few years, later - so for my earlier example she was a "hypothetical"..... since it was a hard partying ski resort town - tone of voice would have been meaningless ... was I unhappy that I wasn't skiing, or heading out to a party..... who knew? And when I say "hard partying" I mean I bumped into friend of mine at a house party and asked him how long he had been there. He thought for a moment, and then asked what day (of the week) it was. No kidding.
Or.... then there was the day I popped into town at 10:00, met some friends at the King Eddy and had a couple of beers.... before finally ending up at work a couple of hours late (it was OK, it was the last day of training for a new hire, and I called her to tell her I'd be late.) At 3:00 I finally got to work. Go ahead, parse that without the AM & PM 'cause you'd be wrong, likely. Met the friends at 10AM, and finally ended up at work at 3AM (Like I said - it was a hard partying town).... luckily she was fine, and since it was the night audit shift and I could just sleep it off in the staff room. She woke me just before management arrived and I scooted out (being careful to be seen from a distance) as management arrived. As I recall, that was not one of my better skiing days....
Would you believe that I was actually one of the more responsible employees? Sad but true.... but that was the only time I showed up to work even a little bit, um, 'happy'.
Update
CalBoy .... I actually mostly agree with your point that people seem to do just fine with the 12 hour clock, vs the 24 hour clock.... but you did issue a challenge ..... Really, the only time - imho - that the 24 hour clock as an advantage is calculating durations in your head. For 8 hour shifts that span noon, it requires a bit more mental arithmetic to get the times right. Doable, just a bit more work. I had to check and double-check my 7-3 shift example above to make sure I added the extra 2 hours to take it out of the normal base-10 arithmetic. Minor, sure.... but the 24 hour clock is bit easier there.
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Don't look now, but you've just illustrated that 12h format isn't all that hard to use.