Why dosent apple adopt new technology?

iBunny

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Apr 15, 2004
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Hello, I am fairly new to the Mac world with my first purchase of an iBook back in November.

I am not trying to bash apple here at all, I love my iBook more and more every day ;) and am awaiting Tiger too :D

But my question is, Why dosent apple utilize new hardware. They always wait until the technology isnt as spectacular anymore until they release a product with it. Such as PCI express....

Just a general question, that I really cant figure out.
 

PlaceofDis

macrumors Core
Jan 6, 2004
19,232
4
apple actually are usually pretty good at adopting new technology into their lineups, they have already signed up to use blu-ray burning technology, and they developed and had firewire before anyone else, they may miss the boat sometimes, but i think they do a fairly good job
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,641
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
iBunny said:
But my question is, Why dosent apple utilize new hardware. They always wait until the technology isnt as spectacular anymore until they release a product with it. Such as PCI express....
Yeah, they seem to be ahead of the curve with some hardware technologies, like wireless (very early in terms of built-in wifi in laptops and desktops, and more recently, BT2.0), and maybe the inclusion of built-in DVD writers (IIRC they were one of the first on that wagon), but behind the curve on a lot of others.

With respect to the iPod, they were also courageous and relatively ahead of the curve with hardware tech -- when it first came out, it was a very early use of such small hard drives. And also the conductive / touch-sensitive switchgear, which is still not seen on that much consumer electronic gear.

I personally suspect their executives have trouble getting excited about hardware tech that doesn't hold some promise for being revolutionary in terms of offering a new user experience. They don't seem to get excited very often by bus speed increases or other incremental things like that. So probably they don't bother with things like PCI-X because they feel like they wouldn't allow them to do anything new, for right or for wrong.
 

jamdr

macrumors 6502a
Jul 20, 2003
660
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Bay Area
Yeah, like 90% of the time Apple does adopt new technology, and usually does it first. You chose one example of PCI Express, but think about USB, FireWire, 802.11, DVD-RW, 64-bit proc. All in the Mac before they really became mainstream in PCs.
 

James Philp

macrumors 65816
Mar 5, 2005
1,494
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Oxford/London
802.11b for over 5 years?
UNIX core OS?
Firewire 400 for over 5 years?
DVI + all screen connectors WAY ahead of curve FOR EVER.
Superdrive AS STANDARD (3 years ago was it, or more? when the drive itself cost $800 or summit!)?
Gigabit Ethernet?
Superclusters made from CONSUMER model PC's?
Behind Technology? Erm...

My 4 year old laptop had 2 400Mb/s (Firewire 400) sockets - beat that ANY 4 yr old PC laptop! (IMO firewire 400 is still faster than USB2)
 

PlaceofDis

macrumors Core
Jan 6, 2004
19,232
4
Raven VII said:
Not your opinion, Firewire 400 is actually faster than USB 2.0 in many situations, it's only slower in quick spurts.
yep, Firewire can sustain the 400mbps speed much longer than USB 2.0 is able to reach its 480mbps limit, hence why if you want to use an external drive firewire is much superior, i boot from a firewire dive, and i dont thing it would work as smoothing if i used USB

On Topic:

i remember reading awhile back that Apple accounts for about 50% of all innovation in the desktop market or some such, with dell, hp, sony, ms, etc making up the other half....not sure how true that is, but i could definitely see it being a reality
 

jamdr

macrumors 6502a
Jul 20, 2003
660
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Bay Area
The most obvious time Apple was behind in technology was when all they had were slow Motorola processors in their pro lineup. It was sad when PowerMac processor speeds actually decreased by 50 MHz across the line during 1999.
 

mad jew

Moderator emeritus
Apr 3, 2004
32,194
6
Adelaide, Australia
You've gotta remember that Apple has only a small market share so it takes quite a big risk with adopting new technology. They don't have the market power to 'produce' standards/technologies or even strongly endorse them as much as Windows-based companies do.

Sorry if it's hard to understand but I'm having trouble getting what I'm thinking down onto the post so I might come back to this one. :(
 

PlaceofDis

macrumors Core
Jan 6, 2004
19,232
4
mad jew said:
You've gotta remember that Apple has only a small market share so it takes quite a big risk with adopting new technology. They don't have the market power to 'produce' standards/technologies or even strongly endorse them as much as Windows-based companies do.

Sorry if it's hard to understand but I'm having trouble getting what I'm thinking down onto the post so I might come back to this one. :(
actually this would make it easier wouldnt it? because apple doesnt have to try and make it work with all sorts of different components and whatnot, this is why apple does jump on the bandwagon so fast with most new technologies, im still wating for my wireless firewire though (less fire? ;) )
 

earthtoandy

macrumors 6502
Jan 18, 2003
250
0
iBunny said:
Hello, I am fairly new to the Mac world with my first purchase of an iBook back in November.

I am not trying to bash apple here at all, I love my iBook more and more every day ;) and am awaiting Tiger too :D

But my question is, Why dosent apple utilize new hardware. They always wait until the technology isnt as spectacular anymore until they release a product with it. Such as PCI express....

Just a general question, that I really cant figure out.
usually they are first! USB for example.No PCs would use it much if at all and Macs had nothing but USB at the time.Also getting rid of floppy drives, Adding the first DVD-R drive, Firewire, and many other such things.

Of course when apple adopts technology thats new everyone bitches that they change everything and dont support older stuff.
 

Timelessblur

macrumors 65816
Jun 26, 2004
1,086
0
The things apple laged/ lags in
They lag in adapting USB 2.0
They currently lag in PCI tech. They currently do not support PCI-x nor PCI express
They currently lag in burning techology. (you can not get a dual layer burner put in you mac)
They currently lag in wireless techology since they dont have anything that supports 802.11n or a (n being the newest)

Apple did lead the curve for a while but now they have gone the other way and they are behind.

As for dumping the floppy drive I am sorry but I still like having my floppy drive and it currently in my computer. I call it my 10 buck insurences and I still use floppies. They are really good for moving around small files and turning in small files to my teacher.
 

mad jew

Moderator emeritus
Apr 3, 2004
32,194
6
Adelaide, Australia
PlaceofDis said:
actually this would make it easier wouldnt it? because apple doesnt have to try and make it work with all sorts of different components and whatnot, this is why apple does jump on the bandwagon so fast with most new technologies, im still wating for my wireless firewire though (less fire? ;) )
Yeah I suppose what I was trying to say is that since Apple has such a small market share it's harder for them to get developers/backers of new technology. But you raise a good point.
 

link92

macrumors 6502
Aug 15, 2004
335
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20% of users of wireless hotspots in the UK are Mac users - goes to show how Mac uses get technology first. Normally.
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,641
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Timelessblur said:
They currently lag in wireless techology since they dont have anything that supports 802.11n or a (n being the newest)
Are there any portable computers currently on the market with built-in (not PCMCIA) 802.11n? I'm just curious...I didn't even think -n was ratified yet.
 

jamdr

macrumors 6502a
Jul 20, 2003
660
0
Bay Area
Timelessblur said:
As for dumping the floppy drive I am sorry but I still like having my floppy drive and it currently in my computer. I call it my 10 buck insurences and I still use floppies. They are really good for moving around small files and turning in small files to my teacher.
That's just sad. I hate floppies, they are the most unreliable, crap technology ever created. I've lost countless hours of work to corrupted disks. Why don't you just get a usb thumb drive for this purpose? Many PCs don't even have floppy drives anymore, so this would be a far more reliable and compatible way to transport small files.
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,641
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
jamdr said:
I hate floppies, they are the most unreliable, crap technology ever created.
Don't you think that's a little bit much? Have you ever tried using tape as a primary storage medium? That's what the computer we had when I was six years old had.... And my mother learned to program on *punch cards*! :eek:

I'm not sad to see the floppy go, as its time is past, but when it became the adopted standard, it was a huge improvement over what was in common use before it.
 

Timelessblur

macrumors 65816
Jun 26, 2004
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jamdr said:
That's just sad. I hate floppies, they are the most unreliable, crap technology ever created. I've lost countless hours of work to corrupted disks. Why don't you just get a usb thumb drive for this purpose? Many PCs don't even have floppy drives anymore, so this would be a far more reliable and compatible way to transport small files.

lets see for moving files bettween friends I have use USB thumb drives but for turning stuff into teachers lets see what is cheaper. spending 5-6 bucks on cds over the years (50cents a cd turning in an average of 1 a week) or spending 1 buck on a floppy that can used for the entire semester.

But it also helpful for giving out some small files to group partners because they files can be edited plus the risk of me loosing looking much money if the disk is lost is small compared to replacing a thumb drive. If the file gets corrupted I may loose 30 mins worth of work since the oringal are always back up on our computers.

You are free to give me a 16-30 meg flash drive. You willing to risk loosing that over a 1 buck floppy. Floppies still have thier uses and people still use them. It just I still use floppies drives and I not willing to give them up yet. I call it my 10 buck insurenest plan (that is counting the cost of the drive and the floppy). And yes I have delt with loosing datas on modern floppies. Personaly I like to use floppies that are about 5-6 years old because back then they where made of much high quiltiy. As for the lost data it took me about 10-20 mins to get it all back since the oringinals where saved on the computer I just lost some minor editing and debugging work I did in the lab but it was easy enough to fix back in my room since I did the hard part in the lab and that was figuring out what was wrong.
 

mtscott

macrumors member
Feb 7, 2005
46
0
Timelessblur said:
The things apple laged/ lags in
They lag in adapting USB 2.0
They currently lag in PCI tech. They currently do not support PCI-x nor PCI express
They currently lag in burning techology. (you can not get a dual layer burner put in you mac)
They currently lag in wireless techology since they dont have anything that supports 802.11n or a (n being the newest)
I thought some of the current PowerMacs supported PCI-X, or at least that's what Apple's site says.

In regards to the PCI-x and PCI express Tom's Hardware has this to say:

"When looking at the comparison table below, you might be tempted to question whether PCI-X would be rendered superfluous. While PCI Express will mainly be around in desktop systems, PCI-X will remain the prevailing high-performance interface for high-end workstations and server systems. Finally, PCI-X 1066 will be able to provide up to 8.5 GB/s."

However, I would agree that Apple should switch from AGP to PCI Express for graphics.

From blu-ray.org:

You'll probably have to wait until 2006-2007 for Blu-ray recorders to become commonly available. The driving force behind the development of Blu-ray Disc recorders is the need to record HDTV programming and currently the only country where HDTV is well established is Japan. There's still only a few different Blu-ray Disc recorders available to consumers in Japan, but as you can see in our Blu-ray Recorders section, most well-known consumer electronics companies have their own prototype Blu-ray Disc recorder in development, so we expect to see more Blu-ray recorders on the Japanese market during 2005.

According to Sony of America's senior vice president Mike Fidler, products based on the Blu-ray Disc format are not likely to be available in the United States until late 2005 or early 2006.


So, if there's only about a year to go before Blu-Ray gets here, why would Apple want to start offering dual layer drives, isntead of just keeping their production system the same and letting customers that REALLY need dual layer go and buy a drive themselves.
 

gekko513

macrumors 603
Oct 16, 2003
6,302
1
When it comes to PCI Express it is currently mostly marketing hype and offers no advantage over AGP, but that will change and when it does I'm sure Apple will have switched.
 

CanadaRAM

macrumors G5
Timelessblur said:
lets see for moving files bettween friends I have use USB thumb drives but for turning stuff into teachers lets see what is cheaper. spending 5-6 bucks on cds over the years (50cents a cd turning in an average of 1 a week) or spending 1 buck on a floppy that can used for the entire semester.
CD-RW once per year, $1, erase it, hey, just like a floppy, except:
Has room for all the items that don't fit on a floppy.

Timelessblur said:
They currently lag in wireless techology since they dont have anything that supports 802.11n or a (n being the newest).
Since there is no "n" yet, not surprising.

Don't confuse what is available third party with what the mainline PC makers actually build in. Who is building-in pre-N technology?
You want it third party, you can probably find it for Mac as well.

Timelessblur said:
They currently lag in PCI tech. They currently do not support PCI-x nor PCI express
Granted, except for the PowerMac G5's that have PCI-X slots. By the way, video card excepted, what was the last PCI card you bought?

Timelessblur said:
you can not get a dual layer burner put in you mac
Funny, my Mac has one. Bring your G5 or G4 tower around and we'll fix that for you in 15 minutes.
 

Timelessblur

macrumors 65816
Jun 26, 2004
1,086
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mkrishnan said:
Are there any portable computers currently on the market with built-in (not PCMCIA) 802.11n? I'm just curious...I didn't even think -n was ratified yet.

Who said I was talking about laptops. But I can buy a PCI card for a pc and a M-PCI card a laptop that can use 802.11n. As for Wireless -a apple does not support that and that is old tech.

Also if -n is not ratified yet should not stop apple from going to it because apple did got to wireless -g before it was ratified so really that agument does not hold water.

mtscott said:
I thought some of the current PowerMacs supported PCI-X, or at least that's what Apple's site says.

In regards to the PCI-x and PCI express Tom's Hardware has this to say:

"When looking at the comparison table below, you might be tempted to question whether PCI-X would be rendered superfluous. While PCI Express will mainly be around in desktop systems, PCI-X will remain the prevailing high-performance interface for high-end workstations and server systems. Finally, PCI-X 1066 will be able to provide up to 8.5 GB/s."

However, I would agree that Apple should switch from AGP to PCI Express for graphics.

From blu-ray.org:

You'll probably have to wait until 2006-2007 for Blu-ray recorders to become commonly available. The driving force behind the development of Blu-ray Disc recorders is the need to record HDTV programming and currently the only country where HDTV is well established is Japan. There's still only a few different Blu-ray Disc recorders available to consumers in Japan, but as you can see in our Blu-ray Recorders section, most well-known consumer electronics companies have their own prototype Blu-ray Disc recorder in development, so we expect to see more Blu-ray recorders on the Japanese market during 2005.

According to Sony of America's senior vice president Mike Fidler, products based on the Blu-ray Disc format are not likely to be available in the United States until late 2005 or early 2006.


So, if there's only about a year to go before Blu-Ray gets here, why would Apple want to start offering dual layer drives, isntead of just keeping their production system the same and letting customers that REALLY need dual layer go and buy a drive themselves.

so I was a little off on PCI-x but the lack of PCI express is kind of sad since that is quickly becoming the standard. At least in graphic card. Apple is well behind the curve on that one.

As for Dual layer support those disk are going to be out cheaply long before Blue Ray burning and even if blue ray is out by 2005 the media is going to be more than dual layer is right now and it still a while behind before it comes standard since you have to account for the delay the fact that their are 0 blue ray players on the market right now and currenlty all DVD players-Rom on the market can read Dual layer. Apple should get on bored in supporting the burning on it. The blue ray stuff is just an excuse that is at least 3-4 years away from becoming a useble media and for enough players out there than can even read them. Dual layer is useable now and will be for while longer
 

Mechcozmo

macrumors 603
Jul 17, 2004
5,215
2
Timelessblur said:
The things apple laged/ lags in
They lag in adapting USB 2.0
They currently lag in PCI tech. They currently do not support PCI-x nor PCI express
They currently lag in burning techology. (you can not get a dual layer burner put in you mac)
They currently lag in wireless techology since they dont have anything that supports 802.11n or a (n being the newest)

Apple did lead the curve for a while but now they have gone the other way and they are behind.
Apple already adopted USB 2.0, while some companies still shipped USB 1.1 computers. And they are all USING USB because of Apple. They did lag a bit, but if you look, after USB 2.0 displayed itself to be viable products gained it after their next update.

802.11a never really caught on ANYWHERE. It wasn't backwards compatible, and thats why it was killed. The only 802.11a device I've seen is my friend's laptop, and he doesn't have any use for it. Thankfully it also has b and g.

What company was the first to make a fully enclosed all-in-one computer for cheap? Apple with the iMac. What company moved us away from beige and platinum? Apple with the iMac and then the iBook.

Timelessblur said:
lets see for moving files bettween friends I have use USB thumb drives but for turning stuff into teachers lets see what is cheaper. spending 5-6 bucks on cds over the years (50cents a cd turning in an average of 1 a week) or spending 1 buck on a floppy that can used for the entire semester.

Floppies still have thier uses and people still use them.
Ever heard of a CD-RW? Thats a great way to turn in projects. Or email, or a USB flash drive which was how I did all my projects in Computer Science last year-- it was required! Our projects didn't always fit on a floppy and oft times when they did and I used them the floppy wouldn't read in our teachers computer. It read fine at home, but not our teachers.

Timelessblur said:
Floppies still have thier uses and people still use them.
You are most right. I use mine as coaster for my drinks. :D
 

plinden

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2004
3,969
3
mkrishnan said:
Are there any portable computers currently on the market with built-in (not PCMCIA) 802.11n? I'm just curious...I didn't even think -n was ratified yet.
You're correct - any current routers and PC cards are "pre-N", which means there is a fair to high chance they won't work with the final standard.

As for the topic on hand, it seems to me that Apple leapfrog PC technology - they appear to be behind at times, but before you know it they are ahead again. It may be wishful thinking, but let's see what's happened by the end of the year.
 

tdhurst

macrumors 601
Dec 27, 2003
4,003
101
Phoenix, AZ
Um...

Timelessblur said:
lets see for moving files bettween friends I have use USB thumb drives but for turning stuff into teachers lets see what is cheaper. spending 5-6 bucks on cds over the years (50cents a cd turning in an average of 1 a week) or spending 1 buck on a floppy that can used for the entire semester.

But it also helpful for giving out some small files to group partners because they files can be edited plus the risk of me loosing looking much money if the disk is lost is small compared to replacing a thumb drive. If the file gets corrupted I may loose 30 mins worth of work since the oringal are always back up on our computers.
You are gonna love this one...there is a new invention...it's called email. You can actually attach documents and send them to people without ever having to see them...and it's pretty much free...