Why dosent apple adopt new technology?

[plinden]

thats pretty harsh, come on, the guy is not trying to start a fight with you but is trying to have an intelligent conversation, if you want to get your point across why not explain it for him/her so that they understand rather than take an elitest attitude about it? jeez

I was wrong on one thing, got wireless-a backwards - it has the same mb/s as wireless g, but much smaller range than either b or g. Which means g has the advantage in that it has the throughput of a but the range of b - so saying b/g is going away is ridiculous if you think it's going to be replaced by wireless-a. It will be replaced when better technology comes along. Wireless-n is one possibility, when the standard is ratified.

There are other wireless technologies in development.

I still can't understand what Timelessblur was saying - I couldn't really be bothered trying to parse his sentence. [Edit: removed a sentence that came dangerously close to ad hominem.]

[Edit: to tie in with the subject of this thread - given the lack of wireless-a access points, and the fact that it's going to be dead soon, it's perfectly logical to expect Apple not to provide wireless-a products. On my occasional travels for work, I've had no problems finding wireless access using the wireless-b (only) card that's in my 10 month old IBM Thinkpad.]

 

[uaaerospace]

...spending 5-6 bucks on cds over the years (50cents a cd turning in an average of 1 a week) or spending 1 buck on a floppy that can used for the entire semester.

You do know that you don't have to use a new CD everytime you turn in project don't you? You can add to the CD if you burn it correctly. It worked for me as I used one CD the entire semester. Plus, with CDs you have crossplatform support, whereas floppies are either Mac or Windows (IBM) formatted. I'm a Mac on a Windows (although UNIX servered) campus, and I fit right in. ~Josh

EDIT: Timelessblur....If you are doing projects on your Mac and writing them to a floppy, how does the professor open them? Does he have a Mac too?

 

[uaaerospace]

Well, with the push for HD, I doubt that people will want to stick with or purchase a dual layer drive. Since dual layer can only hold 8.4 GB and a BluRay disc can hold 25 GB, BluRay is going to quickly outpace both single and dual layer DVD recording. As well, the PlayStation 3 will use BluRay discs. People are going to want HD, and dual layer can't keep up with the storage requirements for it.

It will take some time for BluRay to become popular, but how long?

Well written post. Makes more sense than anything I've heard/seen today. Nice. ~Josh

 

[mtscott]

THey have the lastest rumors about updates and guess what no PCI -x or PCI express in them.

CURRENTLY SHIPPING POWERMACS SHIP WITH PCI-X.

Therefore, why would Apple's next revision of PowerMacs NOT HAVE PCI-X?

Why should Apple adopt 802.11a? If you supposedly understand it, explain it. Oh, wait, you said you don't want to. Could that be becuase you haven't got a clue what you're talking about? Well, since you're unable to explain it, I will.

802.11a

When 802.11b was developed, IEEE created a second extension to the original 802.11 standard called 802.11a. Because 802.11b gained in popularity much faster than did 802.11a, some folks believe that 802.11a was created after 802.11b. In fact, 802.11a was created at the same time. Due to its higher cost, 802.11a fits predominately in the business market, whereas 802.11b better serves the home market.

802.11a supports bandwidth up to 54 Mbps and signals in a regulated 5 GHz range. Compared to 802.11b, this higher frequency limits the range of 802.11a. The higher frequency also means 802.11a signals have more difficulty penetrating walls and other obstructions. Because 802.11a and 802.11b utilize different frequencies, the two technologies are incompatible with each other. Some vendors offer hybrid 802.11a/b network gear, but these products simply implement the two standards side by side.

Pros of 802.11a - fastest maximum speed; supports more simulatenous users; regulated frequencies prevent signal interference from other devices

Cons of 802.11a - highest cost; shorter range signal that is more easily obstructed

802.11g

In 2002 and 2003, WLAN products supporting a new standard called 802.11g began to appear on the scene. 802.11g attempts to combine the best of both 802.11a and 802.11b. 802.11g supports bandwidth up to 54 Mbps, and it uses the 2.4 Ghz frequency for greater range. 802.11g is backwards compatible with 802.11b, meaning that 802.11g access points will work with 802.11b wireless network adapters and vice versa.

Pros of 802.11g - fastest maximum speed; supports more simulatenous users; signal range is best and is not easily obstructed

Cons of 802.11g - costs more than 802.11b; appliances may interfere on the unregulated signal frequency

http://compnetworking.about.com/cs/wireless80211/a/aa80211standard.htm

Now, please explain to me why Apple would put 802.11a in their products?

I think it sad that apple not done even a minor update in 9 months to add in at least dual layer burning and there seems to be noughting the future that shows they are going to add it.

I agree.

 

[mattraehl]

no rush for pre-n

as for the n I remeber seeing it at best buy the last 3 times I been their they all have a big display for it. Sadly it PC ONLY. Apple went G before it was ready and the N already has been aproved by IEEE.

n has NOT been approved. They have only chosen which company's proposal will be used a basis for the specification.

Additionally, you mentioned in other posts that you didn't think n was going to be backwards compatible with g. That is incorrect. It will be backwards compatible with both b and g. Plus, the current line of pre-n routers from various companies significantly extends the range of g cards. I see no reason why apple should jump the gun and try to offer something now. If you already have a G network, it's a lot cheaper to extend it's range than buy all new hardware. The increased data rates are just not that impressive right now. The final 802.11n is expected to attain at least 300Mbps, if not more.

 

[James Philp]

well I dont want to explain it. If you understand wireless networking and kept update with it you would understand it.

I think the simplest translation is -b/-g will be phased out and thier replacement will not work with them

How will they be "phased" out then? You mean "gradually replaced"!
Anything that replaces g will have to be compatible - what would starbucks say!

 

[James Philp]

PS - I just read in a magazine that BluRay discs can go to 50GB!!!!

 

[James Philp]

This is from the CURRENT Apple Website:
PCI-X Expansion
PCI-X
The dual 2.0GHz and dual 2.5GHZ Power Mac G5 models come with three PCI-X slots, giving you the benefit of the advances in PCI technology. The PCI-X protocol supports high-performance PCI devices, increasing speeds from 33MHz to 133MHz and throughput from 266 Mbps to 2 GBps. So you can customize your Power Mac G5 to your creative use, with video capture cards, pro audio tools, fibre channel networking and high-speed disk drives.

What idiot said they didn't?
It's called the Apple website - you may have heared of it?
Get your facts straight before you Blurt!

EDIT:

The things apple laged/ lags in
They lag in adapting USB 2.0
They currently lag in PCI tech. They currently do not support PCI-x nor PCI express
They currently lag in burning techology. (you can not get a dual layer burner put in you mac)
They currently lag in wireless techology since they dont have anything that supports 802.11n or a (n being the newest)

Apple did lead the curve for a while but now they have gone the other way and they are behind.

As for dumping the floppy drive I am sorry but I still like having my floppy drive and it currently in my computer. I call it my 10 buck insurences and I still use floppies. They are really good for moving around small files and turning in small files to my teacher.

Just about every point you made in that post is Wrong!
Lets Take the G5
You CAN add a dual-layer burner (and you can get an external one)
You CAN add a Floppy drive (and you can get an external one)
Why adopt USB 2 when you already have a superior Firewire? And Firewire 800!
How many wirless "n" networks are there around? - Do you know many internet connections faster than 52MBps? (I use a 802.11 for internet sharing more than file sharing - if I were to transport anything over a GB i would use a cable for security anyway, probably a Firewire 400 one, which you can network with in OSX anyway! - How fast is that!

 

[MarkCollette]

Just get over the fact that apple is no longer leading in new techology. They are behind They went from leading the way to now they are behind everyone else. Out side of firewire 800 (which has noughting out that can use it and noughting on the horizen that i know about) what does apple put on there computers that is leading the way. Noughting. No dual layer. No PCI express, And they have noughting else leading the way that is coming up as new like wireless -n. They where behind when it came to getting USB 2.0.

It's caused me endless trouble that my Macs don't support USB 2.0, since that closes off so many options for peripherals that require data rates beyond what USB 1.1 supports.

 

[James Philp]

It's caused me endless trouble that my Macs don't support USB 2.0, since that closes off so many options for peripherals that require data rates beyond what USB 1.1 supports.

What devices do you use that require USB 2?
I can think of external burners and HD's, and there are PLENTY of these with Firewire, which Mac have had FAR LONGER than PC's have had USB 2, and that is FASTER than USB 2 in real life! (See page 1 of this thread)

The ONLY thing I wish I had USB 2 for is my iPod Shuffle (there should be a firewire adaptor for it!). But I kinda do, because I have USB 2 via PCMCIA on my PB (but none on my iMac )

Which peripherals require USB 2 do you wish you had?

 

[jayscheuerle]

tick tock tick tock...

Still waiting to hear who is leading technology wise, if not Apple..

One name? Any name?

 

[James Philp]

Just get over the fact that apple is no longer leading in new techology. They are behind They went from leading the way to now they are behind everyone else. Out side of firewire 800 (which has noughting out that can use it and noughting on the horizen that i know about) what does apple put on there computers that is leading the way. Noughting. No dual layer.

Do you ever get anything right? Do you know anything about Mac computers? I'm begining to think not!
True 64Bit Chip Architecture not good enough for you (in 2 of 5 models, including a genuie "consumer" type product)? Being the first to actually use 64bit?
G5 with such wide bandwidth you could drive a tanker through them?
Up to 8GB RAM not quite good enough?
3 PCI-X Slots not enough? (and where did you get that there was none?)
Dual 30" screens running at 2560x1600 resolution (over 8 Megapixels) not quite big enough for you?

Quite what is it about these kind of specs amkes you think "behind the curve"?

 

[MarkCollette]

What devices do you use that require USB 2?
I can think of external burners and HD's, and there are PLENTY of these with Firewire, which Mac have had FAR LONGER than PC's have had USB 2, and that is FASTER than USB 2 in real life! (See page 1 of this thread)

The ONLY thing I wish I had USB 2 for is my iPod Shuffle (there should be a firewire adaptor for it!). But I kinda do, because I have USB 2 via PCMCIA on my PB (but none on my iMac )

Which peripherals require USB 2 do you wish you had?

First off, my Imac G3 333 does not support Firewire, just USB 1.1 Now, that was made before USB 2.0, so I only blame Apple for making in unupgradeable.

My iBook G3 700 does support Firewire, but not USB 2.0, for which there is no excuse.

Now, I needed an external CD-RW drive to allow me to burn CDs, for both my iMac and iBook, so I have to use a USB drive, limited to 4X speed, since that's all that USB 1.1 supports. As well, I want to hook a USB WiFi adapter to the iMac, since it's a model that predates AirPort support as well. Not only is it hard to find one with driver support, but I can't make use of 802.11g data rates, since I'm using USB 1.1. And it's the same if I try to use it with my iBook too.

Worse yet, for my iBook, and girlfriend's PowerMac Dual G4 450, I'm limited to AirPort, and can't use AirPort Extreme, since Apple did not make it forward compatible. And Apple no longer sells AirPort cards, leaving me to scrounge on eBay for used ones.

Basically, if you have a slightly older Mac, good freakin luck getting it to use WiFi or external optical drives.

 

[Zaty]

Adoption of USB 2 on Wintel laptops

Many poster said Apple were behind with USB 2. That's only half true. While USB 2 became standard on Wintel desktops in 2002, for some reason almost all late 2002/early 2003 x86 laptops didn't have USB 2 chips either (Probably because hardware manufacturers took some time to redisign their proprietary motherboards) . It didn't become standard issue on laptops until spring (or summer on cheaper models) of 2003. Apple introduced USB on their laptops in September of 2003 with the Rev. B AlBooks. Only a month later, iBooks got USB 2 as well. Again, while they were about a year late on desktops, but they were only a few months behind the Windows world.

 

[James Philp]

First off, my Imac G3 333 does not support Firewire, just USB 1.1 Now, that was made before USB 2.0, so I only blame Apple for making in unupgradeable.

My iBook G3 700 does support Firewire, but not USB 2.0, for which there is no excuse.

Now, I needed an external CD-RW drive to allow me to burn CDs, for both my iMac and iBook, so I have to use a USB drive, limited to 4X speed, since that's all that USB 1.1 supports. As well, I want to hook a USB WiFi adapter to the iMac, since it's a model that predates AirPort support as well. Not only is it hard to find one with driver support, but I can't make use of 802.11g data rates, since I'm using USB 1.1. And it's the same if I try to use it with my iBook too.

Worse yet, for my iBook, and girlfriend's PowerMac Dual G4 450, I'm limited to AirPort, and can't use AirPort Extreme, since Apple did not make it forward compatible. And Apple no longer sells AirPort cards, leaving me to scrounge on eBay for used ones.

Basically, if you have a slightly older Mac, good freakin luck getting it to use WiFi or external optical drives.

I have a slightly older mac, a slightly older mac than YOU!

The machine I'm using RIGHT NOW, is AT LEAST as old as both your machines, if not OLDER!
It is a PowerBook G3 Pismo, it had 2 Firewire 400 slots, a PCMCIA, Airport etc etc (Expandable to 1GB RAM 80GB HD and a G4 too if I want)

You get what you pay for mate. You bought an "i" model (I've an iMac G4 that i'm already begining to regret). The whole point was that "they're cheaper and not upgradeable" - THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!

I CURRENTLY have an external optical drive that burn's a CD in 2 minutes or so, and my machine is OLDER than yours!

You get what you pay for, like I said before. This machine cost around £2000 when I bought it 4 years ago, but as you can see, the "Power" models really do last (hardware wise), and pay you back.

Find me one PC laptop that has wifi built in that is 4 years old, or has 2 Firewire ports!
The equivalent PC laptop in terms of price and age to your iBook would probably not have firewire even!

OMG - I just re-read summit you said - "Apple did mot make it FORWARD compatible"!!!!!! - Hahaahaha - how do you do that?;

Right, in 3 years we might be using a faster connection, so for now I'll leave a big hole in the computer with a separate bus with infinitley variable speed and protocol variation, that has 300 I/O lines, and can access the CPU directly, good - the machine now has the potential of forward compatibility... Oh hang it, I'll just wait and see what comes out and make my computer then! (But of course you never would!)

I use 802.11b and I find the speed of that more than adeqate for all but duplicating drives!

Why dont you just trasfer your files from iMac-iBook (or network via ethernet) and burn everything from the iBook? you could get a MUCH faster drive that way?

 

[Timelessblur]

Do you ever get anything right? Do you know anything about Mac computers? I'm begining to think not!
True 64Bit Chip Architecture not good enough for you (in 2 of 5 models, including a genuie "consumer" type product)? Being the first to actually use 64bit?
G5 with such wide bandwidth you could drive a tanker through them?
Up to 8GB RAM not quite good enough?
3 PCI-X Slots not enough? (and where did you get that there was none?)
Dual 30" screens running at 2560x1600 resolution (over 8 Megapixels) not quite big enough for you?

Quite what is it about these kind of specs amkes you think "behind the curve"?

Well considering that the G5 is IBM. 2nd also considing the fact that there 64 bit chip came out aroudn the same time as the intel and AMD 64 bit chips came out it not really leading the way. So the chip is not really leading the way since it pretty much a mutt point to try to argue out which chip is the best (each one does diffent things better than the other) and arguing CPU just does not get any where. But lets look at standards that both sides can get. Dual layer burners are offered by all major manifactors for over 9 months now but Apple. PCI Express is at least at 6 months by everyone but apple. Both of those in Consummer (aka iMac) lv models to give you a idea how far apple lags in this area. They are optional upgrades but they are offered to be gotten. Apple even thier top of the line computer do not have this.

Wireless -n is an add on macs can not enjoy due to the lack of PCI slots in everything but the power macs. and then the card not made for apple so apple needs to make it to cover the gap. They did add USB 2.0 kind of late but they finally add it reallizing that USB has much more going for it than firewire. Firewire has a much more limited use then USB.


Apple uses have to relay a lot more heavily on Apple to keep pass with the 3rd party due to the lack of support/ lack of the abilty to upgrade an apple computer. Like most PC for example you can keep the drivers internal for all this for everythign but the mac it extranelanl drives for dual layering.

Just get over the fact that apple is behind the times.

 

[jayscheuerle]

Third time's a charm?

Just get over the fact that apple is behind the times.

Then WHO IS LEADING?!!

 

[MarkCollette]

I have a slightly older mac, a slightly older mac than YOU!

The machine I'm using RIGHT NOW, is AT LEAST as old as both your machines, if not OLDER!
It is a PowerBook G3 Pismo, it had 2 Firewire 400 slots, a PCMCIA, Airport etc etc (Expandable to 1GB RAM 80GB HD and a G4 too if I want)

You get what you pay for mate. You bought an "i" model (I've an iMac G4 that i'm already begining to regret). The whole point was that "they're cheaper and not upgradeable" - THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!

The point of the "i" line is to market to consumers, students, switchers, etc. Apple might employ a strategy of non-upgradability, but that's not the "point" of the "i" lines.

And if you read my post, you'd see that it wasn't the non-upgradability that was the problem, it was the combination of non-upgradability (lack of PCMCIA in iBook and no PCI in iMac), non-expandability (using USB 1.1 instead of 2.0), and lack of support for older computers (AirPort not sold, only AirPort Extreme). If any of these had been done differently, then I wouldn't be bitching. Hell, the one that pisses me off the most is that used AirPort cards on eBay sell for twice what a new AirPort Extreme card goes for.

I CURRENTLY have an external optical drive that burn's a CD in 2 minutes or so, and my machine is OLDER than yours!

You get what you pay for, like I said before. This machine cost around £2000 when I bought it 4 years ago, but as you can see, the "Power" models really do last (hardware wise), and pay you back.

When I switched, and got my iMac, I knew nothing of this. Then I learned, and when my girlfriend got a Mac, I got a PowerMac, which can presumably take PCI cards. In fact I've upgraded the internal optical drive in it already. So, I've learned that lesson, the hard way.

Find me one PC laptop that has wifi built in that is 4 years old, or has 2 Firewire ports!
The equivalent PC laptop in terms of price and age to your iBook would probably not have firewire even!

OMG - I just re-read summit you said - "Apple did mot make it FORWARD compatible"!!!!!! - Hahaahaha - how do you do that?;

By forward compatible, I meant that if Apple had used a standard connector, like PCMCIA, then I could easily put in either an original 802.11b card, or upgrade to a new 802.11g card. The machine would be forward compatible.

All notebooks, including your PowerBook use PCMCIA, and the iBook has something like that, so I think it's reasonable to be annoyed that they didn't just stick with the standard.

Right, in 3 years we might be using a faster connection, so for now I'll leave a big hole in the computer with a separate bus with infinitley variable speed and protocol variation, that has 300 I/O lines, and can access the CPU directly, good - the machine now has the potential of forward compatibility... Oh hang it, I'll just wait and see what comes out and make my computer then! (But of course you never would!)

Or just stick with a standard PCMCIA slot, and use USB 2.0 when it was originally available, instead of intentionally crippling the hardware...

I use 802.11b and I find the speed of that more than adeqate for all but duplicating drives!

I agree. If only I could easily and affordably get an 802.11b adapter...

Why dont you just trasfer your files from iMac-iBook (or network via ethernet) and burn everything from the iBook? you could get a MUCH faster drive that way?

I bought the burner when I only had the iMac, before I got the iBook. I've been looking at getting an internal burner and putting it into an external firewire enclosure, but I have no idea if that would actually work on a Mac.

 

[Timelessblur]

Does any of apple laptop even come with a PCMCIA slot on them to allow for those minor upgrades.

I must say I do enjoy the fact that my laptop from around 3 years (for around 1200) ago currently can use wireless -g with teh PCMCIA slot that allows from some minor upgrading and adding life to the hard ware

 

[PlaceofDis]

Does any of apple laptop even come with a PCMCIA slot on them to allow for those minor upgrades.

I must say I do enjoy the fact that my laptop from around 3 years (for around 1200) ago currently can use wireless -g with teh PCMCIA slot that allows from some minor upgrading and adding life to the hard ware

the 15 and 17 come with slots, but not the 12inch

 

[auxplage]

802.11a never really caught on ANYWHERE. It wasn't backwards compatible, and thats why it was killed. The only 802.11a device I've seen is my friend's laptop, and he doesn't have any use for it. Thankfully it also has b and g.

Well, 802.11a could have a use though no "hot-spots" have it. It runs at the 5.8ghz band which could be useful though it does not have a good range at the moment. It will, most likely, not be able to impede on the 2.4ghz band anytime soon, but to have 5.8ghz coexist with 2.4ghz would be cool.

 

[Mantat]

Hello, I am fairly new to the Mac world with my first purchase of an iBook back in November.

I am not trying to bash apple here at all, I love my iBook more and more every day and am awaiting Tiger too

But my question is, Why dosent apple utilize new hardware. They always wait until the technology isnt as spectacular anymore until they release a product with it. Such as PCI express....

Just a general question, that I really cant figure out.

I didnt read the whole replies because I dont have the time BUT know that PCI Express is toaly useless right now. The speed bottleneck of video card right now isnt a saturation of the bus, they arent even using 60% of the bandwidth last time I checked.

PC makers want you to buy these gadget because it make you upgrade your computer while there arent any real reason, technology wise, to do so.

So Apple is just waiting for an actual need to put the new standard. By the time AGP 8x pro is saturated, we will be at the PCIE 2.0 norm so it will be a big improvement, right now it doesnt worth it.

And as stated by a few people Apple generaly use all the lattest techno that they can find a use for.

 

[mkrishnan]

Now, please explain to me why Apple would put 802.11a in their products?

One of the selling points for 802.11a even after b and g came out was that it is not at 2.4 GHz.... Even though it is more difficult for the 5 GHz signal to penetrate walls, it gets it away from BT, cells, cordless phones and microwaves that all operate at 2.4 GHz. But there are so few access points around for it, and even if it is available on PCs, the installed base is very small. FWIW, though, it is available as a BTO option on some Windows notebooks. IBM has it on some T42s, IIRC.

And *God* this thread has become insane....

 

[Mechcozmo]

Also I not to cheap buy CD-R I just think it is a waste to use a CD-R to burn on a file 1 meg or less. For the most part I relax about them. The .50 a cd is close enough ot average for quick math considering after tax it comes out to be around 25 bucks for a 50 pack.

I have yet to see an excuse for apple not having PCI express, or not have wireless -a, or the fact that apple does not have daul layer burners. I can understand wireless -n which is brand new and only rececently certificed. But not for the lack of wireless -a Support

I got 50 CDs for $0.99 on a rebate. Total savings? $5.00. Where do you get CDs for $0.50 each? I can get DVDs for cheaper. So your quick math is flawed due to the fact that CDs are NOT that expensive.

And your "excuse" is right here for PCI-e: It is not needed. Only for PCI video cards, but you can get an AGP card for cheaper that does the same thing. And yes, Macs do have AGP slots. 8x too. The video cards of today and even tomorrow will not fill an AGP 8x bus. It is simply unneeded. In a few years, after Apple incorporates more chips into the design, then you may see them. But for now, there isn't a use for them. Except to make people think they are needed so they spend extra money...

"Excuse" for 802.11a: Never used it. Most people didn't use it. As someone showed, 'b' caught on and spread massively. 'a' didn't. When 'g' came out, it allowed for faster, cheaper, and longer-range than 'a'. And my internet connections is 5 Mbps down-- plenty for even 'b' and doesn't even do anything to 'g'. 'a' is an unneeded technology, then and now.

Dual-layer burners... they are out there, but I agree that Apple should introduce them. They will be however next update. And even the PowerBooks and iMacs will be getting them soon.

Does any of apple laptop even come with a PCMCIA slot on them to allow for those minor upgrades.

Yes, the 15" and 17" PowerBooks have PCMCIA slots. Older laptops with those slots are the TiBooks, G3 PowerBooks, and some older PowerBooks too.

And please tell us who is leading the industry if not Apple?

 

[benwa02]

Also I not to cheap buy CD-R I just think it is a waste to use a CD-R to burn on a file 1 meg or less. For the most part I relax about them. The .50 a cd is close enough ot average for quick math considering after tax it comes out to be around 25 bucks for a 50 pack.

I dont know where you go for CD-R's but I have got my 50pks for $5 and sometimes 99cents for a 50pk.