Why I Chose Airplay Over Sonos

[ixxx69]

As many have already said, they both have their place. As I said in an earlier post, I think they're both great (though they both have some considerable drawbacks/areas for improvement).

1. With Airplay, can you easily adjust volumes in different zone (from your iDevice)?

2. How easy is it to group and ungroup zones? I understand it's easy for different people to play different music to different zones....but say I have all the rooms on the lower level playing my music, and my wife is in the office and wants to listen to her music in there...how easily can I drop just the office, so she can pick it up?

3. What hardware do you use to run Airplay/what kind of drop outs do you have? Like I said even in a small apt. I would get terrible dropping. I was using a flat Airport extreme and two OLD Airport expresses (I am assuming that was my dropping problem).

4. Can you input to Airplay? I have a pretty large LP collection that I can connect to my Sonos system and thus play all over the house if I want. I would hate to give that up.

5. Is there any way to make all of your Airplay devices talk to each other? For example with Sonos I start a playlist and start working on my computer. If I don't like a song I can hit the skip button my computer, OR if my wife doesn't like the song SHE can hit the skip button from her computer, phone, iPad whatever. Does Airplay have this functionality yet?

That's all I can think of for the moment. Thanks in advance.

1. Not outside of iTunes without third-party apps. Using Apple's Remote app, you can control iTunes to output to different Airplay devices, but not in other apps. While multiple iOS devices can remote control iTunes, they will affect all Airplay speakers. As far as I can tell, you can't use multiple iOS devices using Apple remote to send different streams to Airplay devices using the same host iTunes library. You can of course stream separately using Airplay directly from each iOS device, but that limits you to a single Airplay device. Apple remote works pretty well, though at times it can take a long time to load large libraries, etc.

There is a third-party app called Airfoil that works in conjunction with your Mac (& Windows) and iOS device to allow any single audio source to stream from your iOS device to any or all of your Airplay devices. They also have a remote app that will allow you to "control" your Mac's output. However, this is essentially a "work-around" to Apple's imposed limitations, and it is far from seamless. Nothing at all like the ease of Sonos (and yes, I agree that it's a drag to have to use the Sonos app all the time).

2. You can do this with the Airfoil apps, but it's somewhat convoluted and unreliable.

3. Dropouts are a network/building thing... that's not Airplay's fault. Once Airplay is actually going, I've only very rarely had a dropout where it stops playing or stutters.

4. You can input to Airplay from something like a record player, but it would be a very convoluted way to do it. You would have to input the external source (e.g. record player) to your Mac. You could then set the audio source being fed to the Mac as the sound device in Airfoil. Then you can use Airfoil to Airplay to any Airplay device.

5. Using the Apple Remote apps, you can within iTunes. Not really for Airfoil. Using Airfoil, more than one iOS device can control the speakers at the same time, but not the source music. If you want to un-join an Airplay device in one room and Airplay a different source to that one Airplay device, you can do that. Again, not super seamless.

Seriously, I just spent the last hour trying out all these different scenarios, and yes, technically, you can get most of this stuff to work one way or another, but it was nothing but a series of running between different devices and making sure various settings are in place, and the Airfoil speaker app was running on my Mac, and a series of technical missteps, connection errors, conflicts between iTunes remote app and Airfoil remote app, music apps refusing to connect because they see the connection as already in use, reboot the iOS device to get it unstuck, etc. This is not for your "typical" user.

If you've got a few minutes before a party to get it set up, or you're the type who sets it up to use one music app pretty much all the time, the same way every time, etc., it can really work great. If you're just looking for a casual, no-fuss way to do all of this with Airplay, it doesn't exist yet. Anyone tells you different is living in an alternate universe.

 

[Uofmtiger]

I missed #4 in my prior post:

"4. Can you input to Airplay? I have a pretty large LP collection that I can connect to my Sonos system and thus play all over the house if I want. I would hate to give that up."

You are much better off ripping the LPs to a computer if you want to listen to them digitally. It makes little sense to start an album in one room and go in the other room to listen to it. You would have to run back and forth to flip it and change out the record. If you really want to do it, as mentioned above, you have to connect it to a computer and send the audio out via Airfoil.

I have my turntable hooked up to my computer so that I can rip (needle drop) records, but with Rdio having most of my vinyl albums available, I prefer just using it via Airplay and having vinyl for when I want an analog experience. For the few albums that aren't available on any digital source, I would spend the time to rip them to a computer.

 

[steve knight]

The biggest advantage to sonos is that it has its own network so you are not bogged down when you have a lot of wireless devices going it is better to get the music on its own network. Plus the buffer is larger I have rebooted my AE and sonos would stop eight before it came online.

 

[lowercaseperson]

It sounds like, for what I want, Sonos is still the top option. I really appreciate all the input, it makes me feel a little better about continuing to grow my pricey Sonos collection knowing that, it is, in fact, the best option for me.

On another note this thread has been really helpful. I just setup my express to connect with my Play5 so I can FINALLY listen to Spotify radio over my Sonos speakers. The drops are still pretty bad, but when I get too annoyed I can just switch to something that is through the Sonos app.

 

[steve knight]

Sonos Is overpriced really. I mean the sonos connect is the same as the speakers but with inputs and outputs. It should actually be less. The amp is expensive but maybe not quite as much as the connect. It is fun hooking the sonos to home automation too.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

On another note I started playing some music through my old Airplay setup and remembered why I quit. It's just so glitchy when I use it. That may be a function of my old airport express units, but I would hate to buy new ones for it to be just a glitchy.

Really frustrating to me. Apple could make this a HUGE selling point. Imagine having Sonos reliability and integration (Apple could easily make an app like the Sonos app with the same functionality). But instead it seems like a total afterthought.

I simply have NO IDEA about the experience you describe. I've been using Airplay almost from Day 1 (over 6 years now) and through two different WiFi Routers. I have two Airport Express units, two Gen 1 ATVs and a Gen 2 ATV all around the house and I NEVER have "drop outs" for music (once in awhile for movies with the old units that didn't buffer as much, NEVER with the Gen 2 unit that buffers the whole movie as fast as it can receive it).

The point is I don't know what's wrong in some of the setups on here, but I'm guessing it's your primary routers. I once tried an Airport Express (802.11N unit, not the older one) as a router to see how it compared and it wasn't even close to the Netgear units (either one) I have used for my primary router over the years in terms of range/speed so I'm going to guess if there's a weak link in these setups it is using Apple routers for the primary router. I haven't had problems RECEIVING with Apple products (the aforementioned Airport Express and ATV units plus a Macbook Pro and a Netbook from HP running Snow Leopard and 3 different model iPod Touch units), but the Express unit couldn't hold a candle to the Netgear WNDR 3700 dual-radio unit I have as the primary router.

In other words, maybe it's not Airplay that's your problem with dropouts, but your primary router (i.e. other things would drop out too, not just airplay). Many Apple users get this idea they have to use all Apple products, but Apple isn't always the best (and rarely if ever the cheapest). I've tried out a couple of other brand routers as well and they didn't do as well as Netgear either.

The biggest advantage to sonos is that it has its own network so you are not bogged down when you have a lot of wireless devices going it is better to get the music on its own network. Plus the buffer is larger I have rebooted my AE and sonos would stop eight before it came online.

That's not really an advantage because bandwidth is bandwidth and operating multiple frequencies/bands over the same relative airspace will cause interference problems at some point, particularly if your neighbors are using one of those bands too. My dual band radio is 2.4/5GHz so at least my 2nd data path is on a completely different frequency. My neighbors have a bunch of 2.4GHz equipment, but NONE use 5GHz so I have a clean path on that channel for at least half the house (i.e. it doesn't go through walls as well as 2.4, though). And since I can operate both radio bands at the same time, I can transmit multiple HD video channels around the house at the same time all off ONE router with no overlapping channels. And again, I have never had music drop out in over 6 years of use and that's with SIX rooms of music and four of video on a 2100 sq. foot house with the router on the 2nd floor at the far end of it and TWO of the Apple TV units on the other end of the house, one on a different floor even.

The last thing I would want is a second 2.4GHz channel potentially interfering with my existing 2.4 GHz channel. My two closest neighbors have adjoining channels so an extra 2.4GHz channel would definitely interfere with at least one of their routers (or my own if I used an overlap of it). Each AppleTV unit can play its own separate music independent of each other OR I can play any number or ALL the rooms in a whole house mode using iTunes as the master controller with all the rooms in sync (or any given AppleTV unit can do the same with all the rooms except the iTunes computer and it too if I run an App that simulates it being another regular Airplay receiver (some versions of XBMC/Kodi for example).

 

[Uofmtiger]

Sonos Is overpriced really. I mean the sonos connect is the same as the speakers but with inputs and outputs. It should actually be less. The amp is expensive but maybe not quite as much as the connect. It is fun hooking the sonos to home automation too.

As you mentioned, one of the main issues is that it is overpriced (especially the Connect). The other is that it is proprietary. I avoid these types of services these days. I had Roku Soundbridges and Roku decided to drop support of them to concentrate on video. Also, Logitech bought the highly reviewed Squeezebox (Slim Devices) and then dropped support for it. Sonos could easily be bought out by Google, Apple, or another tech company and have their prior services dropped. I used to use a music program called MOG. It interfaced with my car's nav. Beats bought them and my car no longer works with it. This stuff happens all the time.

If you have unique needs that can't easily be fixed with Airplay, then I guess you don't have much choice. However, I also wonder how Google will affect Sonos going forward? The Chromecast is cheap and does direct from the web streaming (which is one of Sonos main selling points). This year, Google is supposed to be bringing the tech to speakers and that could be bad news for Sonos. I guess we will see, but I am seeing more and more Chromecast support in iOS apps and I am sure Apple is aware of this and we could see them take a new approach in the next AppleTV.

 

[lowercaseperson]

I simply have NO IDEA about the experience you describe. I've been using Airplay almost from Day 1 (over 6 years now) and through two different WiFi Routers. I have two Airport Express units, two Gen 1 ATVs and a Gen 2 ATV all around the house and I NEVER have "drop outs" for music (once in awhile for movies with the old units that didn't buffer as much, NEVER with the Gen 2 unit that buffers the whole movie as fast as it can receive it).

The point is I don't know what's wrong in some of the setups on here, but I'm guessing it's your primary routers. I once tried an Airport Express (802.11N unit, not the older one) as a router to see how it compared and it wasn't even close to the Netgear units (either one) I have used for my primary router over the years in terms of range/speed so I'm going to guess if there's a weak link in these setups it is using Apple routers for the primary router. I haven't had problems RECEIVING with Apple products (the aforementioned Airport Express and ATV units plus a Macbook Pro and a Netbook from HP running Snow Leopard and 3 different model iPod Touch units), but the Express unit couldn't hold a candle to the Netgear WNDR 3700 dual-radio unit I have as the primary router.

In other words, maybe it's not Airplay that's your problem with dropouts, but your primary router (i.e. other things would drop out too, not just airplay). Many Apple users get this idea they have to use all Apple products, but Apple isn't always the best (and rarely if ever the cheapest). I've tried out a couple of other brand routers as well and they didn't do as well as Netgear either.

Interesting, so you think it might be my Airport extreme causing the dropouts? Not the Expresses?

----------

As you mentioned, one of the main issues is that it is overpriced (especially the Connect). The other is that it is proprietary. I avoid these types of services these days. I had Roku Soundbridges and Roku decided to drop support of them to concentrate on video. Also, Logitech bought the highly reviewed Squeezebox (Slim Devices) and then dropped support for it. Sonos could easily be bought out by Google, Apple, or another tech company and have their prior services dropped. I used to use a music program called MOG. It interfaced with my car's nav. Beats bought them and my car no longer works with it. This stuff happens all the time.

If you have unique needs that can't easily be fixed with Airplay, then I guess you don't have much choice. However, I also wonder how Google will affect Sonos going forward? The Chromecast is cheap and does direct from the web streaming (which is one of Sonos main selling points). This year, Google is supposed to be bringing the tech to speakers and that could be bad news for Sonos. I guess we will see, but I am seeing more and more Chromecast support in iOS apps and I am sure Apple is aware of this and we could see them take a new approach in the next AppleTV.

This is exactly my fear. I have a Play5 and a Play1....which is NOT cheap...I am a little afraid I'll get my whole home set up for like 3K and then get dropped (or maybe Apple finally offer what I want in Airplay) a few years later. It's really a big dilemma/risk.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Interesting, so you think it might be my Airport extreme causing the dropouts? Not the Expresses?

I've never owned an Airport Extreme (based on its high cost and some of the reviews and problems over the years I've read about), but I certainly think it's possible it could have connection problems. Every house layout is different and antenna designs vary, etc. and so has firmware (e.g. the first firmware I had for my Netgear 3700 was unstable and could drop out, but an update fixed the problem and it runs pretty much 24/7/365 now without issues. I have had to reboot it maybe 2-3 times in the past 5 years total and that was only on the 2.4GHz band it showed a problem, never the 5GHz one (not sure what it was, but a reboot fixed it).

In any case, given how long I've been using Airplay (starting with a PPC server machine no less) and countless versions of iTunes and still have Gen1 ATVs in the system even, etc., I sincerely DOUBT that "Airplay" is the problem in these problematic setups. It almost has to be a connection drop from the router for whatever reason (interference, firmware, bad placement or antenna position, whatever).

At my mother's house, I set up a router upstairs where her cable modem is and one of those outlet ethernet boxes and her family room receiver has Airplay on it plus her Macbook Pro and an Airport Express in the dining room connected to her Bose wave radio and she has never had a single drop either. I have a Netgear 802.11N dual-band radio router upstairs in her house as well. She did get some dropouts once in awhile with the Airport Express receiver with her older router (Buffalo 802.11G), but it's pretty darn stable now with the Netgear dual-radio router and Netflix, etc. all works well as well.

 

[steve knight]

Apple is extremely proprietary. But sometimes you can get around it. Sonos works with more systems though and more smartphones. My hifi store sells a let of sonos stuff.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Apple is extremely proprietary. But sometimes you can get around it. Sonos works with more systems though and more smartphones. My hifi store sells a let of sonos stuff.

I only have iPod Touches to control the system plus the ATV Remotes. It's all I need. I keep my phone in my car most of the time. In fact, I keep my older iPod Touch units around as wired remotes (one in my bedroom for that Airport Express and one in the living room as a remote/browser to use while watching tv shows, etc.). Of course, the ATV units have their own remotes and the computers can control it all as well.

As for systems, I use regular real world HiFi gear, not products with Airplay integrated in them (e.g. "Airplay Speakers") as I value sound quality. But my mother's house has a Yamaha receiver and it has built-in Airplay. I don't see any Sonos support on it. But then your store sells Sonos equipment, so yeah I would expect you'd see a lot of it.

 

[lowercaseperson]

I've never owned an Airport Extreme.....

Thanks for the heads up. What would you recommend for a wireless router then? Because if I could get rid of the drops, I would be really happy to be able to run Airplay through my Sonos.

 

[steve knight]

I



As for systems, I use regular real world HiFi gear, not products with Airplay integrated in them (e.g. "Airplay Speakers") as I value sound quality. But my mother's house has a Yamaha receiver and it has built-in Airplay. I don't see any Sonos support on it. But then your store sells Sonos equipment, so yeah I would expect you'd see a lot of it.

That's why I went with sonos as it gave my wife the ease of use she needs but she can use her existing speakers. The store I go to is great about telling you the truth about components and does not really sell you they let the product do that. They have airplay equipped components. I mean I asked them if I should use the sonos connect I got off eBay with the 300 speakers I bought from them a couple months ago or get a 5 from them they recommended the connect rather then make a sale.

 

[Uofmtiger]

Apple is extremely proprietary. But sometimes you can get around it. Sonos works with more systems though and more smartphones. My hifi store sells a let of sonos stuff.

Not in the same way. I don't need to own an Apple device to use it. It has been reverse engineered. In other words, I can set up Airfoil and Airfoil Speakers on two Windows computers and use one to stream to the other with any audio app I choose. I can use a rooted Android device to stream via AirPlay to a Windows computer with the Airfoil Speakers app installed. As I already mentioned, Airplay is built into hundreds of devices including my Synology NAS and Denon receiver (both would still be very useful if AirPlay broke). Sonos is more locked in. There is a reason I can currently stream any audio app from a computer or iOS device via AirPlay while Sonos only works with specific applications. They are far more locked in.

There isn't anyone big enough to put Apple out of business in my lifetime, but there are plenty of companies that could afford Sonos (including Apple). Also, with Google going into the same space, I worry more about Sonos future. It is obvious that Sonos based system is more at risk of being obsolete.

 

[steve knight]

Why I Chose Airplay Over Sonos

When most people think airplay they think apple I did not know you could use it from non apple products and I don't think most people will but sonos works with most systems out there and between windows and Android they cover more bases. Plus they do it well and I see some of the steaming services give sonos and bose higher quality streaming.

 

[ozaz]

It sounds like, for what I want, Sonos is still the top option. I really appreciate all the input, it makes me feel a little better about continuing to grow my pricey Sonos collection knowing that, it is, in fact, the best option for me.

You might want to keep an eye on Google Cast for audio.
http://www.google.com/cast/audio/

Google Cast speaker systems will be out later this year and some will provide Sonos-like functionality (linked speakers, zones, etc) but will also allow you to cast via 3rd party apps if those apps include support for the open Google Cast protocol. Any app that already supports Chromecast is already Google Cast compatible.

What is unknown is whether Google Cast systems will provide anywhere near the reliability of Sonos. But the ability to cast direct from 3rd party apps is enough to cause me to wait until seeing some Google Cast systems before deciding whether or not to expand my Sonos setup.

Spotify presumably won't add Google cast support to their app (as they have their own streaming protocol), but I expect that at least some speakers that have Google Cast support will also have Spotify Connect, and probably AirPlay, support included.

If you have unique needs that can't easily be fixed with Airplay, then I guess you don't have much choice. However, I also wonder how Google will affect Sonos going forward? The Chromecast is cheap and does direct from the web streaming (which is one of Sonos main selling points). This year, Google is supposed to be bringing the tech to speakers and that could be bad news for Sonos. I guess we will see, but I am seeing more and more Chromecast support in iOS apps and I am sure Apple is aware of this and we could see them take a new approach in the next AppleTV.

My expectation is that Google Cast will emerge as the dominant audio streaming protocol. Ahead of Sonos because cheap and varied hardware that supports Google Cast will emerge, ahead of AirPlay because it's truly Cross platform whilst AirPlay is only marginally cross platform, and ahead of Spotify Connect because Spotify Connect only supports one service.

But I would guess that Sonos will continue to sell well by virtue of having a reputation as the most reliable multi-speaker wireless system. How long this reputation lasts and remains important will be interesting.

I'm very much hoping that Google Cast will force Sonos to open up and allow 3rd party apps to directly control playback on the Sonos system. This could be either by including Google Cast support or by releasing their own open casting protocol, although I'd prefer the former as it will be easier for developers.

Also, I expect we'll see cheap Chromecast-like devices for casting to non-wifi speakers. Hopefully this will force Sonos to significantly lower the price on the Connect - which is unquestionably overpriced.

 

[Uofmtiger]

My expectation is that Google Cast will emerge as the dominant audio streaming protocol. Ahead of Sonos because cheap and varied hardware that supports Google Cast will emerge, ahead of AirPlay because it's truly Cross platform whilst AirPlay is only marginally cross platform, and ahead of Spotify Connect because Spotify Connect only supports one service.

While I think Chromecast could replace Sonos or Google could even buy them, it has a lot longer way to go to replace Airplay. As I have mentioned, yet some don't seem to comprehend, Airplay isn't just built into Apple devices. It is built into devices from Sony, Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo, Phillips, LG, JBL, Harmon Kardon, Panasonic, Bowers and Wilkins, Bose, Pioneer, Marantz, NAD, McIntosh, Cambridge Audio, Bang & Olufsen, TEAC, Polk, Wren, etc . Even if you don't want to use Airfoil speakers, you can turn on Airplay in XBMC. On the other hand, Sonos works only with Sonos hardware.

That takes care of their huge lead in the hardware line outside of Apple products. However, the Airport Express and AppleTV 2 & 3 (not sure about the first version) also support Airplay. They have sold millions of these devices (Apple said that the AppleTV alone had over a billion in sales in 2013). In short, Airplay is already out there in millions of Apple and non-Apple devices.

As far as Airplay being as cross platform. It works with iOS. I am not sure if you realize how many iOS devices have been sold (around a billion), but there are enough that it doesn't need to be cross platform to be successful. However, from what I understand Airplay also works with Android. . That is pretty much the entire market. It works on Windows and Mac computers, it works on third party hardware, it works on Apple's own highly successful devices, it works on iOS and Android. Not sure what they are missing in the market, but that is a HUGE lead over Casting.

I personally own a Chromecast and it is nice with some audio when you want to turn it on and forget about it. However, it is only supported by a small portion of iOS apps. Also, it isn't as integrated into iOS...you can access Airplay from the lock screen and Control Center. The Chromecasts main upside is price, but it lacks important features for audio, like analog or optical outputs, so it does not compete with the Airport Express or even the AppleTV. The other issue compared to the AppleTV is that it requires a mobile device or computer to do anything. You can do a lot with the AppleTV without a mobile device at all.

Anyway, if I were betting, I think Chromecast will live in harmony along with Airplay. (assuming Google doesn't discontinue it before it gets off the ground)

 

[steve knight]

We don't really know how many people who don't use a mac or a apple portable use airplay. I did not use a apple TV for it because it only had optical out so it was limited in that way. Everyone and their dog is starting to make streaming speakers. We tested the bose and they did not sound as good as the sonos and cost even more. So far sonos sounds good and is extremely easy to use and setup. It is about as easy as it is possible to get. Hold two button-down and you are pretty much done make a few choices and you are live.

 

[ozaz]

While I think Chromecast could replace Sonos or Google could even buy them, it has a lot longer way to go to replace Airplay. As I have mentioned, yet some don't seem to comprehend, Airplay isn't just built into Apple devices. It is built into devices from Sony, Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo, Phillips, LG, JBL, Harmon Kardon, Panasonic, Bowers and Wilkins, Bose, Pioneer, Marantz, NAD, McIntosh, Cambridge Audio, Bang & Olufsen, TEAC, Polk, Wren, etc . Even if you don't want to use Airfoil speakers, you can turn on Airplay in XBMC. On the other hand, Sonos works only with Sonos hardware.

I never said Google cast would replace Airplay. I said my expectation is that it would become dominant.

I don't think anyone on this thread thinks that Airplay receivers are only made by Apple. But when it comes to Airplay v Sonos, I (and maybe others) think that being cross-platform in the operating system / software sense is more important than being supported at a hardware level by a wide range of speaker manufacturers.

However, from what I understand Airplay also works with Android. . That is pretty much the entire market. It works on Windows and Mac computers, it works on third party hardware, it works on Apple's own highly successful devices, it works on iOS and Android. Not sure what they are missing in the market, but that is a HUGE lead over Casting.

Yes, Airplay is sort of cross-platform by virtue of 3rd party software running on non-Apple OSs. Some of this software is pretty good (Airfoil on Windows is excellent) but some of it is not reliable (AirParrot on Windows is extremely buggy in my experience). On Android, the problem is one of feature set: You can Airplay local media on your device, on the local network, and in your cloud storage. But crucially, unless you root, you can't Airplay streaming services like Spotify, Google Play Music, etc. Requirement for root rules it out of mainstream. The lack of official support by Apple for non-Apple OSs also worries me.

I personally own a Chromecast and it is nice with some audio when you want to turn it on and forget about it. However, it is only supported by a small portion of iOS apps. Also, it isn't as integrated into iOS...you can access Airplay from the lock screen and Control Center. The Chromecasts main upside is price, but it lacks important features for audio, like analog or optical outputs, so it does not compete with the Airport Express or even the AppleTV. The other issue compared to the AppleTV is that it requires a mobile device or computer to do anything. You can do a lot with the AppleTV without a mobile device at all.

To be clear, Google Cast and Chromecast is not the same thing. Chromecast is a limited hardware device and Google cast is the protocol on which it's based, and hence the bigger deal. Chromecast, I think, has been a proof of concept product for Google cast. Now that it's been a success, the number of devices which support Google Cast will grow substantially. This already includes standalone Apple-TV-like set-top boxes running the Android TV OS (e.g. Nexus Player), but more importantly will soon include actual TV sets (for example, Sony's entire lineup of 2015 smart TVs will run Android TV and therefore have Google Cast built in), and wireless multi-speaker systems. Although not announced, I'm sure there will be cheap Chromecast-like devices designed for connection to existing stereo systems rather than a TV (i.e. audio line outputs).

Aside from Apple & Spotify (i.e. those service providers which also have their own streaming protocol), I don't think gaining developer support for Google Cast will be an issue. We'll find out before the end of 2015.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Thanks for the heads up. What would you recommend for a wireless router then? Because if I could get rid of the drops, I would be really happy to be able to run Airplay through my Sonos.

I haven't tried the latest and greatest so I can't really recommend anything. I've had pretty good luck with this particular Netgear (WNDR3700 V1) unit, though, but I did have one once that had a bad tendency to need reset one a month and it was annoying.

That's why I went with sonos as it gave my wife the ease of use she needs but she can use her existing speakers. The store I go to is great about telling you the truth about components and does not really sell you they let the product do that. They have airplay equipped components. I mean I asked them if I should use the sonos connect I got off eBay with the 300 speakers I bought from them a couple months ago or get a 5 from them they recommended the connect rather then make a sale.

People recommend what they like and they know a customer that feels they aren't getting pushed into sales is more likely to return in the future with more business (at least this is how a smart business behaves as giving bad advice to someone can backfire if they are testing you or find out otherwise later). Even so, you're talking Sonos vs Sonos there, Sonos vs Apple.

Sonos pushes a "system" as it's what they do. Apple is more interested in selling VIDEO than audio with AppleTV and have never really pushed Airport Express for playing music (although being able to use or add video to your setup makes ATV much more flexible and valuable for your dollar given the popularity of home theater). You don't go to an Apple Store and look for home theater equipment, after all. However, that doesn't make Sonos easier to connect to real equipment than Apple. My first gen ATV has stereo analog out and optical out along with HDMI out. The 2nd and 3rd gen ATV has optical out and HDMI out and I got an adapter for $20 (actually quite good capable 24/192 capable chip) that will convert to stereo analog if I need it (e.g. my upstairs high-end rig is all analog to 6 foot tall ribbon speakers that are biamped through custom crossovers. The all analog Sonic Holography Pre-Amp (Carver C-5) doesn't have a DAC so I use the adapter to connect a newer ATV if desired (currently using the Gen1 there due to XBMC on it and the Gen2 downstairs on the projector, which is still a 720P unit with a 93" screen). The Airport Express has a simple mini plug that can do digital or analog output to any given standard stereo equipment input.

In short, I can connect everyday HiFi gear and use whatever receiver, amplifier or solution I want and I'm not paying for a Sonos amplifier or speakers I don't need (what they seem to like to push the most since they SELL those items). I see their Sonos Connect is $349. It is an audio only product (i.e. It has ZERO support for VIDEO or surround sound formats like Dolby Digital or passing through DTS Audio CDs as my Gen1 ATV can do). It has similar connections to my ATV Gen1 unit but no HDMI output, making it less flexible for connecting to receivers. More to the point it costs $349 when a Gen3 AppleTV with full 1080p video (Movies, TV, Home Videos and Photo playback plus full GUI menus) in addition to Audio (with support for Dolby Digital Surround formats such a the Pink Floyd Box sets that include BD versions of Dark Side and WYWY) for only $99. What am I getting for $250 more with the Sonos? I'm getting LESS.

You can organize your entire MEDIA library with iTunes on your Mac or PC and then stream it around the house to AppleTV or music only to Airport Express units (still $250 less than a single Sonos Connect) or you can share directly to your iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad with Home Share AND you can SYNC the videos and music to those devices directly and via wire or wireless. I can even move music onto a USB flash drive for my car by selecting them in iTunes and dragging them over to the drive (iTunes copies them over directly). The ONLY major limitation I've found with Apple is the lack of support for AVI and MKV (yes it lacks FLAC as well, but that's easily converted without loss to ALAC so it's no big deal).

As near as I can tell with Sonos, you STILL have to have either a Mac, PC or NAS device to get it to play your own music locally. Otherwise, you're limited to only streaming services. My Mac Mini can serve AppleTV (and even sleep when its not in use automatically on both ends) OR I can play music and even video directly off an iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad. In fact, anyone visiting can play music to any room in my house (once I give them guest WiFi access) directly from their iOS device. I even have a speaker system in the guest bedroom with an Airport Express they can use and they don't have to look for or know about a separate App to do it. It will play directly from their regular music interface.

The Gen1 ATV models can store music and videos directly on the hard drive (and mine are hacked to run XBMC, local hard drives if desired and have 1080p available from a crystal chip plugin with XBMC/Kodi) that it was never even designed for. It cost about the same as a Sonos Connect does NOW and that was 6 years ago. With XBMC, it can play about every surround format known to man for audio as well (actually an XBMC/Kodi supporting stand-alone box is not a bad idea for that reason for home theater rigs; they can then handle even full un-reencoded BD playback). In fact, I'd rather invest in one of those boxes (also around $100-150 and some with full Android App support as well for things like gaming, Netflix, etc.) than a Sonos system that duplicates what I already have.

 

[steve knight]

I have no need for video I gave away my last tv this Christmas. I was trying to get away from itunes it is bad enough but try it when your blind. the shuffle feature is more like a repeat feature. My wife could never get it to pay very many of her 7000 songs it ended up play the same ones over and over and repeating them. it used to be better the smart playlist worked well but it seems never to work well anymore. I put all her music on a external drive on the AE that iTunes uses and sonos grabs that but I also sync it with google music so she can use that too or amazon.
She can use the music services so much better now from the sonos app then she ever could from each one separately. every update would be a gamble if it would work right.
always relying on apple can leave you high and dry. 8.0 has proven that. I mean she can't even use airplay since 8.0 came out it causes the mic not to work so she can't use siri or dictation. This is one+ reason I was looking for a better solution. sonos works great with her existing components and airplay if she wants to use that too. it works great for her and sounds good. I was able to sell her NAD integrated amp and her carver tuner to help pay for it.
but the sonos does one thing and it does it well. apple could care less about making everything work great we just have to look at itunes to see that. my wife really enjoys her music now she is not always telling her phone off (G)

 

[ozaz]

I see their Sonos Connect is $349. It is an audio only product (i.e. It has ZERO support for VIDEO or surround sound formats like Dolby Digital or passing through DTS Audio CDs as my Gen1 ATV can do).

Whilst I disagree with people who argue that the Play:1, Play:3, and Play:5 are overpriced, I have to agree with you on the Connect. It's a stupid price, and hopefully it will be forced down to $100 as the competition increases.

As near as I can tell with Sonos, you STILL have to have either a Mac, PC or NAS device to get it to play your own music locally. Otherwise, you're limited to only streaming services.

This is incorrect. On both iOS and Android you can stream on-device music to the Sonos.

 

[Fedop]

As always, opinion differs. But as for me Airplay is more functional and can be used for a more broad range of tasks.

 

[DarwinOSX]

A lot of misinformation here.

Apple does in fact heavily push the Airport Express for playing music and always has. I don't know how anyone familiar with the product can think otherwise.

Airport Extremes are known for being extremely reliable. Netgear? No.

There is a reason people like who are very familiar with networks and wifi choose Airport Extremes even though they have fewer features than some other brands. They are also not more expensive than competing devices.

If you have Airplay dropouts there is something wrong with your wifi configuration or bandwidth from your carrier is not sufficient, it's pretty much that simple. Airplay used to be less reliable than it is today but that was years ago. Apple is pretty heavily committed to Airplay that much is obvious.

If you have sufficient bandwidth to begin with and your wifi network is properly configured, which is not hard to do these days, the Sonos mesh network will not affect anything else on your wifi network. It is in fact a separate AES encrypted stream. Few people should have such low bandwidth these days or ancient routers that this will cause a problem.

While Airplay is proprietary to Apple it is widely available in apps and hardware. Because of this it is actually much more flexible to use than Sonos especially because the Sonos app dumbs down so many streaming services like Spotify.

Google Cast and Airplay are very different and I have no idea why anyone thinks one would "replace" the other. I seriously doubt you will see Google Cast on receivers or other hardware for example. The Chromecast chief advantage is that it is cheap which you pay for by Google monitoring what you do with it and selling that information to advertisers. No thanks. It is also an inferior streaming solution being of lower quality partly because of the wifi implementation it uses which does not do 5ghz and partly because inferior hardware quality is the price you pay for being cheap. I expect this will be fixed in future versions but Google isn't selling Chromecast to make money from the device itself they are selling them to make money by monitoring what you do with it and selling that data. Just like all their other products. You are in fact the product not your Google device.

Personally I use both an Apple TV and a Roku 3. I can afford a little extra over Chromecast for higher quality video and sound, better connectivity, and far more content and features and not be monitored by Google.

This idea that Sonos or whoever could be sold and therefore its a risk to buy is true of just about any consumer product..so maybe not buy anything ever?

For me the real ticket has been to use both Sonos and Airplay. Attach an Apple TV to your TV or to the Sonos directly and you can use full Spotify or other apps from an iOS device. I also have an Airport Express attached to my Play 5 and my Mac uses Airplay attached to it's speakers. The Airfoil software allows for streaming to multiple sources among other things. It's really not that hard or confusing to do any of this and gives you the best of both worlds.

Sonos seriously needs to up their game though starting with using HDMI and providing support for DTS and other formats. They have been resting on their laurels for way too long. I do like my Playbar, Sub, and Play 5 though as they are a clean solution that sounds good. Not as good as a traditional receiver and speaker setup but close enough. Sonos also needs to come clean about their so called 5.1 solution that really isn't 5.1 unless your source is 5.1. Not many TV's are but Vizio is one brand that does 5.1 within the TV. You can also run through an Xbox or Playstation to the Playbar and get 5.1 or use an HDMI/optical switch. None of this should be necessary though. Nothing will get you DTS through a Playbar though.

If you want to know about Airport networks including Airplay get this ebook.
http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/apple-wifi

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

A lot of misinformation here.

Yeah, just now.

Apple does in fact heavily push the Airport Express for playing music and always has.

The problem is that you just saying that proves nothing. Show me one commercial on TV or anywhere else for that matter that has EVER and I mean EVER "push" the Airport Express PERIOD, let alone for music. Go ahead.

I don't know how anyone familiar with the product can think otherwise.

I'm starting to think we live in different parallel Universes and somehow the Internet signals got crossed.

Airport Extremes are known for being extremely reliable. Netgear? No.

Where is your PROOF? You offered exactly ZERO. Netgear is well known for routers. Apple is well known for charging 2x as much for their routers, but that's about it from what I've seen. The Airport Express in particular is a half-baked version of the Airport Extreme, PURPOSELY CRIPPLED so it won't perform as well. It's one thing that it has less connectivity (one ethernet port wouldn't allow it to replace the Extreme model regardless), but crippling the reach/power/speeds to upsell is unforgivable IMO and the reason I never even considered one, overpriced and under featured as they are.

There is a reason people like who are very familiar with networks and wifi choose Airport Extremes even though they have fewer features than some other brands. They are also not more expensive than competing devices.

Right. I paid $150 for a device that Apple charged $300+ for at the time. I don't know what your definition "not more expensive" is, but apparently in reality, it means charging twice as much for the same speed and fewer ethernet ports and less features (forget about things like UPNP/DLNA as Apple refuses to support STANDARDS so they can push their proprietary crap on people. This is also why you cannot use a NAS with Apple TV.

If you have Airplay dropouts there is something wrong with your wifi configuration or bandwidth from your carrier is not sufficient, it's pretty much that simple.

Dude, I've got an Airport Express and a Netgear unit and I've had two other routers here. The fact you act like there is NO DIFFERENCE between them (or that Apple's performs better) is a load of nonsense. I compared them head-to-head transferring files to Gen 1 Apple TV units and measuring the transfer speeds and connection reliability. It was NIGHT AND DAY (like 2-3x better/faster connections via Netgear than Airport Express via 802.11N). Why? Antennas, power, whatever. The Netgear signal got there and the Airport Express couldn't manage half the speed from the same location to the other side of the house.

Now I don't have the Airport Extreme here to compare as well (and have seen others comment on its better performance and hence my comments about the Express being crippled and that would jive with my own measurements of the Express doing so much more poorly than my Netgear router at the same speeds/channels and this to other Apple equipment (AppleTV) no less.

Thus, this is why my "misinformation" in this post suggests that the reason some of these people could not keep a reliable Airplay signal is that their Apple router simply wasn't up to the task. There's a difference between using a notebook on a router and saying, "gee it works since I can see the Google web search page" and actually getting live real time MEDIA performance out of it.

Airplay used to be less reliable than it is today but that was years ago.

Ah, so now we finally admit there is such a thing as the PAST. Well, that's progress. You see I've had my Airport Express and Netgear units for several years as 802.11N isn't exactly NEW. I'd wager most of the people on here don't buy newer routers just for the hell of it. They want an actual improvement advertised for the unit. 802.11AC is here, but nothing everything supports it and if your computer doesn't, most people won't bother upgrading.

If you have sufficient bandwidth to begin with and your wifi network is properly configured, which is not hard to do these days, the Sonos mesh network will not affect anything else on your wifi network. It is in fact a separate AES encrypted stream. Few people should have such low bandwidth these days or ancient routers that this will cause a problem.

The 802.11N standard is what it is. There are exactly THREE non-overlapping channels on the 2.4GHz mode (802.11AC makes this worse by using more than one to get its faster speeds). This means if you live in an apartment building, a condo or even a house that has close neighbors, you could potentially limit performance and have other interference problems due to competing overlap. A "newer" router will NOT solve this unless it works at 5GHz as well and even if it does, that doesn't mean you won't have the same problem there as well and it doesn't work through walls as well so the range is more limited in most houses (e.g. I can get a strong signal on another floor on the opposite side of the house at 2.4GHz, but it's a bit wonky at 5GHz due to the floors/walls. If one of my neighbors had 5GHz as well, it would be even worse. Fortunately, none do, but I'm not in an apartment building.

While Airplay is proprietary to Apple it is widely available in apps and hardware. Because of this it is actually much more flexible to use than Sonos especially because the Sonos app dumbs down so many streaming services like Spotify.

I happen to prefer Airplay to Sonos, but I'd like it better yet if Apple would also support the STANDARDS out there like UPNP/DLNA, NAS support and something as basic as iTunes being able to play AVI and MKV files. It's absolutely ridiculous that I can't use whatever media files I might have on certain Apple products without having to hack it or whatever.