Why I Returned the MacBook Neo

[1BadManVan]

And that is where you are wrong. Screens that are more reflective and ones not laminated with less colour accuracy can be washed out and blurry. That is what I am referring to. You keep talking about PPI and that is you alone, not me inserting that. I have not taken issue with PPI.

And people do complain and discuss the issue on Reddit, Apple forums, etc. for iPads.

I do not care what anyone else’s experience is. This is my experience with the Neo and that is what I posted about. If the screen looks good for you and others with no issue, cool, carry on.

if you don't care for anyone else experience, then why make the post at all? Attention? You clearly don't like that either, its a forum, you make a post in it to ignite discussion, that's what you got

 

[Pbwallstreet]

I am simply trying to understand what doesn't make sense logically to me in your comments.

If you say the text is blurry then PPI matters as well as display resolution. I inserted because lamination and color accuracy and anti reflective screen do not affect text readability but PPI and resolution do.

So of your resolution is set to very large your text will be blurry if you set it to more space or higher resolution your text will be crisp. The PPI is good enough on the Neo screen to display crisp text. This is why it matters.

A washed out screen has no effect on black or white text on the screen I assure you.

I was also pointing out resolution in case you have it set low and I could help you by adjusting it but I am sure you have done so.

I am just trying to clarify what you are saying as a complaint which is blurry text and trying to suggest that your reasoning for blurry text doesn't add up to me. Maybe you have a defective screen?

In any case I am not trying to upset you in the least it is my ADHD and autism and sometimes I point something out that offends and if so I apologize.

You will continue to argue like somehow this is worth anyone's time.

You’re wrong because you’re treating PPI as the only variable. It isn’t.

PPI = potential sharpness. Lamination, reflections, and contrast = perceived sharpness.

An air gap + higher reflectivity lowers contrast at the eye. Lower contrast = softer edges = text looks less crisp. That’s basic optics. That’s why people complain about base iPads vs Air/Pro.

So no... those factors don’t change pixel count, but they absolutely affect how sharp text looks. That’s the whole point.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

if you don't care for anyone else experience, then why make the post at all? Attention? You clearly don't like that either, its a forum, you make a post in it to ignite discussion, that's what you got

I do care to discuss, but people like the other poster present themselves as some objective truth and try and argue away another person's experience. And these people are often misinformed and erroneous in their reasoning.

 

[1BadManVan]

I do care to discuss, but people like the other poster present themselves as some objective truth and try and argue away another person's experience. And these people are often misinformed and erroneous in their reasoning.

It's a difference of opinion, it's quite common on a large forum of any kind. You're also free to just ignore it and move on if you don't want to discuss their view on it instead of getting offended over it.

 

[Tr3m0r]

And that is where you are wrong. Screens that are more reflective and ones not laminated with less colour accuracy can be washed out and blurry. That is what I am referring to. You keep talking about PPI and that is you alone, not me inserting that. I have not taken issue with PPI.

And people do complain and discuss the issue on Reddit, Apple forums, etc. for iPads.

I do not care what anyone else’s experience is. This is my experience with the Neo and that is what I posted about. If the screen looks good for you and others with no issue, cool, carry on.

It is difficult to see the value in what you post when you admit that everything is for one way communication and ego driven. I have not read even 1/10th of the thread and it is abundantly evident that any dissent from your own opinion, is proven with with your last statement of "I do not care what anyone else's experience is."

This informs me know that anything I am writing is irrelevant because your use of forums is only for your perceived values and ego driven engagement. The title of the thread is identical to the format of influencers and reviewers that compete for clicks and attention which is exactly what you achieved but without the pay day.

The entire post seems to compare the Neo to products that are either for different use cases and or much more expensive and irrelevant to what reasonable expectations of the Neo offers from a price to performance standpoint. When coupled with the admission of not caring what anyone says, then none of what is occurring should be unexpected and therefore common.

 

[Technerd108]

You will continue to argue like somehow this is worth anyone's time.

You’re wrong because you’re treating PPI as the only variable. It isn’t.

PPI = potential sharpness. Lamination, reflections, and contrast = perceived sharpness.

An air gap + higher reflectivity lowers contrast at the eye. Lower contrast = softer edges = text looks less crisp. That’s basic optics. That’s why people complain about base iPads vs Air/Pro.

So no... those factors don’t change pixel count, but they absolutely affect how sharp text looks. That’s the whole point.

I am not arguing but you are taking it as such. I am not writing emotional posts or basing ny posts on my emotions just seeing facts. My interpretation of those facts is not incorrect but you disagree and that is the entire point of discussion.

It is amazing to me that almost all online forums devolve into arguments over feelings rather than about the thread and facts related tobwhat the OP posted. If people have counter points that is a good thing and it used to be that people could meet in the middle and be respectful to one another rather devolve into pointless personal attacks.

Why respond if what I said was pointless? Why is it pointless? My opinion is as valid as yours. If I continue to respond it is because I feel it worth my time to do so. Even your arguing with me is worth my time if I can elicit a different response. Or simply to continue to present my point of view.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

I am not arguing but you are taking it as such. I am not writing emotional posts or basing ny posts on my emotions just seeing facts. My interpretation of those facts is not incorrect but you disagree and that is the entire point of discussion.

It is amazing to me that almost all online forums devolve into arguments over feelings rather than about the thread and facts related tobwhat the OP posted. If people have counter points that is a good thing and it used to be that people could meet in the middle and be respectful to one another rather devolve into pointless personal attacks.

Why respond if what I said was pointless? Why is it pointless? My opinion is as valid as yours. If I continue to respond it is because I feel it worth my time to do so. Even your arguing with me is worth my time if I can elicit a different response. Or simply to continue to present my point of view.

What feelings? I don't feel much of anything.

This is you arguing against facts. You started this discussion, and like several others, try to invalidate both someone else's actual experience and facts.

Obviously, blatantly obviously, a screen's quality is not just a function of its PPI, but that is how you have framed it. That is erroneous. For instance, imagine the glass on a computer screen being frosted, you would hardly see anything on the LCD panel. There are many variables that determine the quality of a screen... and how the content on that screen appears to someone. Several pages ago this was already discussed, including how air gaps trap light and distort content, how reflections also cause distortion, etc.

 

[Technerd108]

You will continue to argue like somehow this is worth anyone's time.

You’re wrong because you’re treating PPI as the only variable. It isn’t.

PPI = potential sharpness. Lamination, reflections, and contrast = perceived sharpness.

An air gap + higher reflectivity lowers contrast at the eye. Lower contrast = softer edges = text looks less crisp. That’s basic optics. That’s why people complain about base iPads vs Air/Pro.

So no... those factors don’t change pixel count, but they absolutely affect how sharp text looks. That’s the whole point.

Furthermore you continue to ignore my points and repeat yours?

Yes lamination and antiteflectivity affect the screen image quality in certain lighting scenarios but they do not affect the clarity of text. As I stated earlier the regular iPad with air gapped screen would be more noticeable close up same as reflections yet I have not heard such claims of blurry text on the regular iPad. In contrast most people don't even notice the air gap? PPI is not potential sharpness it is literally the sharpness definition of the screen? Resolution can be adjusted in software that can affect text crispness and that is not a hardware constraint of the Neo screen. I have not heard others post about blurry text on the Neo screen which I am sure would be widely reported?

Can you even see air gap or reflections in a dark room?

Of course a screen with 500ppi and anti reflective coating and maybe OLED screen would display crisper text. Literally the definition of how sharp the definition of a screen is the PPI.

 

[Technerd108]

What feelings? I don't feel much of anything.

This is you arguing against facts. You started this discussion, and like several others, try to invalidate both someone else's actual experience and facts.

Obviously, blatantly obviously, a screen's quality is not just a function of its PPI, but that is how you have framed it. That is erroneous. For instance, imagine the glass on a computer screen being frosted, you would hardly see anything on the LCD panel. There are many variables that determine the quality of a screen... and how the content on that screen appears to someone. Several pages ago this was already discussed, including how air gaps trap light and distort content, how reflections also cause distortion, etc.

Screen quality? I thought it was text being blurry? Not understanding the problem I guess.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

It is difficult to see the value in what you post when you admit that everything is for one way communication and ego driven. I have not read even 1/10th of the thread and it is abundantly evident that any dissent from your own opinion, is proven with with your last statement of "I do not care what anyone else's experience is."

This informs me know that anything I am writing is irrelevant because your use of forums is only for your perceived values and ego driven engagement. The title of the thread is identical to the format of influencers and reviewers that compete for clicks and attention which is exactly what you achieved but without the pay day.

The entire post seems to compare the Neo to products that are either for different use cases and or much more expensive and irrelevant to what reasonable expectations of the Neo offers from a price to performance standpoint. When coupled with the admission of not caring what anyone says, then none of what is occurring should be unexpected and therefore common.

What is difficult is that you don't seem to understand my point so I will communicate it more clearly. I have my own experience. Nothing anyone says will take away from that. I respond like this to people who try to invalidate my experience, and this can be seen over several pages of this thread where people have gone so far as to accuse me of having something wrong with my eyes, or there being a defect in the Neo panel I had, etc. It's absurd.

 

[Technerd108]

What is difficult is that you don't seem to understand my point so I will communicate it more clearly. I have my own experience. Nothing anyone says will take away from that. I respond like this to people who try to invalidate my experience, and this can be seen over several pages of this thread where people have gone so far as to accuse me of having something wrong with my eyes, or there being a defect in the Neo panel I had, etc. It's absurd.

I never once invalidated your experience or your feelings. I am pointing out what you are complaining about is factually incorrect. Your experience is your experience and I am not arguing that. I am sorry that you had a bad experience genuinely.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

Furthermore you continue to ignore my points and repeat yours?

Yes lamination and antiteflectivity affect the screen image quality in certain lighting scenarios but they do not affect the clarity of text. As I stated earlier the regular iPad with air gapped screen would be more noticeable close up same as reflections yet I have not heard such claims of blurry text on the regular iPad. In contrast most people don't even notice the air gap? PPI is not potential sharpness it is literally the sharpness definition of the screen? Resolution can be adjusted in software that can affect text crispness and that is not a hardware constraint of the Neo screen. I have not heard others post about blurry text on the Neo screen which I am sure would be widely reported?

Of course a screen with 500ppi and anti reflective coating and maybe OLED screen would display crisper text. Literally the definition of how sharp the definition of a screen is the PPI.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

You keep repeating PPI like it settles the argument. It doesn’t.

PPI is the sampling limit of the panel. Your eye doesn’t see pixels in a vacuum... it sees contrast at the edge of those pixels. Air gap + reflections = reduced micro-contrast at edges. Reduced micro-contrast = edges look softer. Softer edges = text looks less crisp. That’s not opinion... that’s how vision works.

“People don’t notice the air gap” is totally untrue you have no data to support because you seem to have just made a general statement and it is also irrelevant. People do, and it’s one common knock on base iPads. Lack of complaints also ≠ absence of effect. Also, “clarity of text is only PPI” is flat wrong. If that were true, anti-reflective coatings and lamination wouldn’t exist on premium displays.

You’re describing theoretical sharpness. I’m describing what your eyes actually resolve.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

I never once invalidated your experience or your feelings. I am pointing out what you are complaining about is factually incorrect. Your experience is your experience and I am not arguing that. I am sorry that you had a bad experience genuinely.

What I am complaining about is 100% factually correct.

 

[Technerd108]

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

You keep repeating PPI like it settles the argument. It doesn’t.

PPI is the sampling limit of the panel. Your eye doesn’t see pixels in a vacuum... it sees contrast at the edge of those pixels. Air gap + reflections = reduced micro-contrast at edges. Reduced micro-contrast = edges look softer. Softer edges = text looks less crisp. That’s not opinion... that’s how vision works.

“People don’t notice the air gap” is totally untrue you have no data to support because you seem to have just made a general statement and that and it is also irrelevant. People do, and it’s one common knock on base iPads. Lack of complaints also ≠ absence of effect. Also, “clarity of text is only PPI” is flat wrong. If that were true, anti-reflective coatings and lamination wouldn’t exist on premium displays.

You’re describing theoretical sharpness. I’m describing what your eyes actually resolve.

Then please tell me of any of those things matter in a dark room?

How do you define panel sharpness if not for PPI? What other metrics are there?

There is a reason they sell TVs in a darker area because they show off the screen clarity better.

 

[boswald]

Hey, you gave it a fair shot and it didn't work for you. No big deal. I hope you find something that does work better for you.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

Then please tell me of any of those things matter in a dark room?

How do you define panel sharpness if not for PPI?

I'm not going to keep responding to you. Several pages back the science behind screens has been discussed at length which deals with this in more detail.

 

[Technerd108]

I'm not going to keep responding to you. Several pages back the science behind screens has been discussed at length which deals with this in more detail.

No problem.

I may be ignorant of the particular facts and I was trying to understand why I was wrong.

I would happily admit I am wrong if I could understand better.

You never answered how reflections are a problem in a dark room? Things like lamination and ar coatings are not as important in dark environments which further proves the point these two technologies or lack of them do not affect text crispness or blurryness. Only a lower PPI or resolution would cause blurry text.

I guess I don't understand the anger when people bring up different points that counter from your experience. It doesn't invalidate your experience it is just different. Everyone is going to have a different experience.

We didn't get to talk about how brightness affects text clarity and how most screens at this price point in another laptop would average 300nits as opposed to 500?

It just might be that your expectations for the $599 Neo were just a little too high but others may still find the Neo perfectly serviceable to their needs???

I am sorry you took my posts the wrong way.

 

[Technerd108]

Hey, you gave it a fair shot and it didn't work for you. No big deal. I hope you find something that does work better for you.

I am just going to let this sit here.

I have dealt with a lot of bullying over my lifetime and your behavior is something I will not just ignore and that is exactly why I continue to respond to your posts to me. I am not saying you are bullying anyone but the pattern of behavior is similar.

 

[Queen6]

I am just going to let this sit here.

I have dealt with a lot of bullying over my lifetime and your behavior is something I will not just ignore and that is exactly why I continue to respond to your posts to me. I am not saying you are bullying anyone but the pattern of behavior is similar.

Hey, you gave it a fair shot and it didn't work for you. No big deal. I hope you find something that does work better for you.

Nah, he/she is only here for the argument that much is blatantly obvious...

Q-6

 

[I7guy]

I'm not going to keep responding to you. Several pages back the science behind screens has been discussed at length which deals with this in more detail.

I don’t really care about the science of the screens. I care about the end result which to me is more than acceptable.

 

[maflynn]

I don’t really care about the science of the screens. I care about the end result which to me is more than acceptable.

Ultimatley that's the only thing that matters.

Does the Neo fit your needs? Yes, buy one. No? don't buy one or return it.

We have 24 pages of posts, but it boils down to that very question.

 

[boswald]

I don’t really care about the science of the screens. I care about the end result which to me is more than acceptable.

Nobody does. It either looks good to you or it doesn't. Most people couldn't care less how it works as long as it just works.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

I don’t really care about the science of the screens. I care about the end result which to me is more than acceptable.

And the discussion wasn’t involving you. The screen is not acceptable to me.

 

[MultiFinder17]

I don’t really care about the science of the screens. I care about the end result which to me is more than acceptable.

Agreed, I find it to be a fine screen. It's not quite as nice as my M4 Air's screen, which for less than half the price I don't expect it to be, but it's more than nice enough for my needs.

 

[I7guy]

And the discussion wasn’t involving you. The screen is not acceptable to me.

If you post a thread here on Macrumors, expect those “not involved” with the discussion to respond. So whether that involves me or not, my comment is I don’t care about the screen science. The display is more than acceptable.