Why I'm switching to PC after 17 years of being on a Mac

[therealseebs]

No it's not except that it has a fundamental flaw they have not been able to fix; at it's heart Windows is still MS DOS.

What does that mean? Programs/apps are not sandboxed the same as the Unix based OSX and that allows huge access to the OS from outside sources.

This is an extremely accurate description of Windows 3.1, and a sort of marginally-accurate description of Windows 95, and has been completely and totally false since Windows XP.

So, there was a five month window in 2001 when this was true of Windows (because XP wasn't out yet) and not true of Mac (because MacOS X wasn't out yet). MacOS 9 was just as horribly inherently-insecure as DOS was. (And it was actually exactly 5 months; March 24 to August 24.)

... and Mac OS X was sort of weak for the first couple of releases. I wouldn't consider anything prior to 10.2 or so to be a particularly stable platform, and there's at least one major security bug which was there all along and only got fixed in the last few months.

 

[Michael Scrip]

It is, if the laptop requires you to use hubs because of lack of ports. My current desktop, for instance, has six USB-3 ports.

I don't know the guy personally, but it's just one point of view, like other people's views here. His experience is that external hubs and adapters are not as reliable as built-in ports.

And that's why I said a laptop might not be the right computer for him.

If you need to plug in more than a couple things... a desktop with a ton of ports is the way to go.

 

[therealseebs]

And that's why I said a laptop might not be the right computer for him.

If you need to plug in more than a few things... a desktop with a ton of ports is the way to go.

I've been super happy with "laptops with lots of ports" as a strategy. Consider: I'm going to be 1500 miles from here for a couple of days next week. How does the desktop with a ton of ports address this? It doesn't. But a laptop with a reasonable number of ports? Works great.

 

[Michael Scrip]

I've been super happy with "laptops with lots of ports" as a strategy. Consider: I'm going to be 1500 miles from here for a couple of days next week. How does the desktop with a ton of ports address this? It doesn't. But a laptop with a reasonable number of ports? Works great.

You're right... a desktop doesn't travel very well.

But this guy is trying to plug seven devices into a laptop that only has two USB ports... and then he complains that USB hubs aren't very reliable.

Who should he be mad at?

 

[therealseebs]

You're right... a desktop doesn't travel very well.

But this guy is trying to plug seven devices into a laptop that only has two USB ports... and then he complains that USB hubs aren't very reliable.

Who should he be mad at?

Well, having had problems with USB hubs, and with laptops without enough ports... I'd be inclined to blame the vendor. Although seven is a fair number.

But hmm. The laptop I'm typing on has:

4x USB3
SD card reader
USB Type C/TB3
mini displayport
HDMI
ethernet

So I can't plug in seven USB devices... But if one of the USB devices was an ethernet adapter, and one was a display adapter, and one was a card reader? I could do that.

It's amazing what you can get in computers. (And the port replicator has additional USB ports, too.)

 

[Michael Scrip]

Well, having had problems with USB hubs, and with laptops without enough ports... I'd be inclined to blame the vendor. Although seven is a fair number.

But hmm. The laptop I'm typing on has:

4x USB3
SD card reader
USB Type C/TB3
mini displayport
HDMI
ethernet

So I can't plug in seven USB devices... But if one of the USB devices was an ethernet adapter, and one was a display adapter, and one was a card reader? I could do that.

It's amazing what you can get in computers. (And the port replicator has additional USB ports, too.)

What laptop? Sounds great!

 

[therealseebs]

What laptop? Sounds great!

Dell Precision, 15" 7000 series. I got a prepackaged build that happened to be in stock nearby. They have 4k display options, but I have a 1920x1080 matte display and love it. (Oh, that's the other connector: Docking connector for an actual port replicator. Yay! I've wanted one of those for YEARS.) It's got a 2.8GHz Xeon, 32GB of DDR4 (so not only more memory than my MBP had, but significantly faster) expandable to 64GB -- it has two open slots. Has both a PCIe slot for an NVME drive and a 2.5" bay. Also, $1,300 cheaper than the MBP. (To be fair, though, that was with only a 512GB SSD. But guess what, I can just buy more.)

Obviously, it's not really competing with the Mac on battery life, but I don't really care. If I could get this hardware with MacOS X, I would be a happy camper.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Dell Precision, 15" 7000 series. I got a prepackaged build that happened to be in stock nearby. They have 4k display options, but I have a 1920x1080 matte display and love it. (Oh, that's the other connector: Docking connector for an actual port replicator. Yay! I've wanted one of those for YEARS.) It's got a 2.8GHz Xeon, 32GB of DDR4 (so not only more memory than my MBP had, but significantly faster) expandable to 64GB -- it has two open slots. Has both a PCIe slot for an NVME drive and a 2.5" bay. Also, $1,300 cheaper than the MBP. (To be fair, though, that was with only a 512GB SSD. But guess what, I can just buy more.)

Obviously, it's not really competing with the Mac on battery life, but I don't really care. If I could get this hardware with MacOS X, I would be a happy camper.

Sounds like a beast!

 

[kinster]

I'm still holding out for the MacBook Ultra.

Is that a MacBook with an even weaker 'M' processor?

 

[bjet767]

totally false since Windows XP.

How so?

There's still the registry, regedit, programming reference to changing the registry, a command.com app and a bit more (I just ran them in my Windows 10 VM).

Applied some line MSDOS line commands in the command window and they still work the same including starting .exe programs.

Also to actually "sandbox" a program in Windows 10 seems to take some coding work.

Please explain why my statement was "totally false?"

I really am up for the correction because I still find Windows security a huge issue when compared to OS X and Unix based systems.

Thank you.
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Uh no, DOS is no longer at the heart of Windows. Hasn't been for ages now.

See above.

I've been at this PC stuff for decades and yes Windows today is far superior to the early versions (I've had them all) but it is still Windows with a history under its surface.

I think too many of the current users forget that the GUI API interfaces we use today have an operating system under all those visual controls. Even iOS has a version of UNIX under it.

Here's a good discussion about the underlying OSs for our "modern" systems:
https://www.quora.com/Are-iOS-Andro...-Windows-the-only-off-league-operating-system

This is from a WIKI:

"In contrast to the Windows 9x series, the Windows NT-derived 32-bit operating systems developed alongside the 9x series (Windows NT, 2000, XPand newer) do not contain MS-DOS as part of the operating system, but provide a subset of DOS emulation to run DOS applications and provide DOS-like command prompt windows. 64-bit versions of Windows NT line do not provide DOS emulation and cannot run DOS applications natively.[36]Windows XP contains a copy of the Windows ME boot disk, stripped down to bootstrap only. This is accessible only by formatting a floppy as an "MS-DOS startup disk". Files like the driver for the CD-ROM support were deleted from the Windows ME bootdisk and the startup files (AUTOEXEC.BATand CONFIG.SYS) no longer had content. This modified disk was the base for creating the MS-DOS image for Windows XP. Some of the deleted files can be recovered with an undelete tool.[37] With Windows Vista the files on the startup disk are dated 18 April 2005 but are otherwise unchanged, including the string "MS-DOS Version 8 © Copyright 1981–1999 Microsoft Corp" inside COMMAND.COM.

The only versions of MS-DOS currently recognized as stand-alone OSs and supported as such by Microsoft are MS-DOS 6.0 and 6.22, both of which remain available for download via their MSDN, volume license, and OEM license partner websites, for customers with valid login credentials. MS-DOS is still used in embedded x86 systems due to its simple architecture and minimal memory and processor requirements, though some current products have switched to the still-maintained open-source alternative FreeDOS."

I have a hard time believing that todays Windows does not have any MSDOS running in it. But if you all insist the history and pains of registry and lack of true sandboxing are not inherited from the older versions of Windows ontop of MSDOS and there is zero MSDOS in Win10, I stand corrected.

BTW I think Win 10 is a very robust, fast and professional System and have stated so many ties here on MR. I just can't take the security issues and constant need to chase them.

 

[WhiteWhaleHolyGrail]

Sounds like a beast!

That's a nice desktop replacement you got there.

 

[Michael Scrip]

That's a nice desktop replacement you got there.

Not me... it's therealseebs who has that beast of a laptop!

 

[WhiteWhaleHolyGrail]

Dell Precision, 15" 7000 series. I got a prepackaged build that happened to be in stock nearby. They have 4k display options, but I have a 1920x1080 matte display and love it. (Oh, that's the other connector: Docking connector for an actual port replicator. Yay! I've wanted one of those for YEARS.) It's got a 2.8GHz Xeon, 32GB of DDR4 (so not only more memory than my MBP had, but significantly faster) expandable to 64GB -- it has two open slots. Has both a PCIe slot for an NVME drive and a 2.5" bay. Also, $1,300 cheaper than the MBP. (To be fair, though, that was with only a 512GB SSD. But guess what, I can just buy more.)

Obviously, it's not really competing with the Mac on battery life, but I don't really care. If I could get this hardware with MacOS X, I would be a happy camper.

Not me... it's therealseebs who has that beast of a laptop!

I must say, having just looked at this model, it looks like a very nice deal. Sleeker than I expected too.

 

[Queen6]

Here's an interesting YouTube by a creative pro discussing the "dongle" issue. You'll get the gist of it in the first few minutes. Basically he talks about the unreliability of the types of connections that the new MB Pro forces you to use:

This guy is so on the money, nobody wants dongles and adaptors as they are just a needless complication, totally agree marketing first...

Q-6

 

[Michael Scrip]

This guy is so on the money, nobody wants dongles and adaptors as they are just a needless complication, totally agree marketing first...

This guy has a 2012 Macbook Pro... the one with all the proper ports... yet his studio is still a complicated rat's nest of wires.

It honestly wouldn't be any more complicated with the 2016 Macbook Pro. He could swap out the two USB cables (no dongles, just USB-C cables) for his audio interface and USB hub. That wouldn't be complicated at all.

But here's the funny part... he's ALREADY using a dongle for his monitor... Belkin Mini-DisplayPort to DVI.

So this guy makes this video to rail against all the dongles and adapters you supposedly need to make the new MacBook Pro functional... yet he's using a dongle and a massive USB hub himself? Hypocrisy much?

OK... this is what he has now:

And this is what he would need with the new MacBook Pro:

What's the problem?

 

[Queen6]

This guy has a 2012 Macbook Pro... the one with all the proper ports... yet his studio is still a complicated rat's nest of wires.

It wouldn't look much different with the 2016 Macbook Pro... to be honest. He could swap out two USB cables (no dongles, just cables) for his audio interface and USB hub. That wouldn't be complicated at all.

But here's the funny part... he's ALREADY using a dongle for his monitor... Belkin Mini-DisplayPort to DVI.

This guy rails against the dongles and adapters you'd need for the new MacBook Pro in this video... yet he's using a dongle and a massive USB hub himself? Hypocrisy much?

Well spotted, personally I don't want to deal with dongles etc. as I don't control the environments that I work in, therefore It`s better for me that the notebook has the appropriate ports, at least the most common use ones.

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

This guy has a 2012 Macbook Pro... the one with all the proper ports... yet his studio is still a complicated rat's nest of wires.

In all honesty, this was one of the major factors for my choosing an iMac over a MBP last year. While not as extreme as that, I did have a fair amount of wires coming out of my MBP that I had to unplug every time I wanted to take my MBP somewhere. Now all the wires are out of site and my desk is much more organized. I have a nice Surface Book for my mobile needs, its a win

 

[leman]

While not as extreme as that, I did have a fair amount of wires coming out of my MBP that I had to unplug every time I wanted to take my MBP somewhere.

And the new MBP fixes that. Now all you need is an appropriate hub and a single cable.

 

[Ma2k5]

Is that a MacBook with an even weaker 'M' processor?

No, it's one which doesn't even need a processor silly.

 

[maflynn]

And the new MBP fixes that. Now all you need is an appropriate hub and a single cable.

By the same token, I probably could have gotten a hub to do the same thing on my 2012 MBP

The difference between the two, is I need to carry extra junk with the new MBP, i.e., sd card reader, USB-C magsafe adapter, dongles.

 

[Ma2k5]

By the same token, I probably could have gotten a hub to do the same thing on my 2012 MBP

The difference between the two, is I need to carry extra junk with the new MBP, i.e., sd card reader, USB-C magsafe adapter, dongles.

Yep agreed.

I think what people are actually complaining about is, the requirement to purchase additional accessories to what they may have had to buy previously, which understandably is frustrating to a user who already paid a lot for the machine - and now has to pay maybe $100's depending on their work flow to get their new machine to do what their old machine did.

They included a 3.5mm to lightning in the iPhone 7 for a reason right? I am sure there are those who think they have been left high and dry by not getting anything with the MacBook Pro. To boot, they apparently now made the cable longer or excluded one of the extension leads that they used to ship with.

 

[Queen6]

In all honesty, this was one of the major factors for my choosing an iMac over a MBP last year. While not as extreme as that, I did have a fair amount of wires coming out of my MBP that I had to unplug every time I wanted to take my MBP somewhere. Now all the wires are out of site and my desk is much more organized. I have a nice Surface Book for my mobile needs, its a win

Am ok with adaptor cables as they are what they are cables & terminators; what does concern is dongles with logic as they can be an issue and they are not always compatible and I have first hand experience having owned & used a Retina MacBook for over a year and a half. Frequently visiting multiple engineering facilities I just don't have explicit control over all that may be required to connect to the notebook, therefore I look to minimise on dongles etc, as much as is reasonably possible. When your on the road it`s just more to deal with manage etc;

Q-6

 

[therealseebs]

How so?

There's still the registry, regedit, programming reference to changing the registry, a command.com app and a bit more (I just ran them in my Windows 10 VM).

The registry has nothing to do with the system "being DOS". And the existence of a command prompt (which hasn't been command.com for years) doesn't prove that the operating system "is really MS DOS underneath".

Since XP (and arguably since ME), Windows has been running 100% on the NT kernel, which is not DOS, and is not derived from or based on DOS. It hasn't been "DOS under the hood" since then, period.

I won't dispute that the registry is a godawful stupid design which is the source of many more problems than it has any excuse for causing, but it doesn't make the system "actually MS-DOS".
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And the new MBP fixes that. Now all you need is an appropriate hub and a single cable.

This argument will become dramatically more persuasive when the appropriate hub is an actual shipping product you can buy.

 

[lcseds]

You folks are really struggling to slam Windows. I will say this. if you struggle with Windows 10, or are intimidated by it, or fear the monsters that attack it, I suggest you power off whatever computer you own, put it away, and let other people handle your computing needs. My Windows boots to nearly the same desktop as my iMac. I can customize the start menu tiles to just the way I like them. But, I pin apps to the control bar at the bottom, which is the same as MacOS. I can pick weaknesses in MacOS also. They both work very well. There is no need to go "under the hood" with Windows. Just because it has a registry doesn't mean you need to muck with it.

If you don't like Windows 10, then I imagine you've spent no *real* time with it. Horror stories from history suggest a lack of knowledge about the current platform. DOS? Really......?

 

[762999]

I don't know the technicalities, exactly, but Windows updates at least 500 times more often the OS X. Now, this doesn't even seem possible, but it's true.

I don't know about you, but ANY update bugs me.

Enjoy!

The Windows defender signatures are almost pushed daily through Windows Updates. There is no issue here. You normally don't have to fire Windows updates manually, it's happening in the background and they will happen automatically. If you want to have only the security fixes, it's also possible.

It's not better on the Mac.