Why is PCs laptops the display screen is inferior to Apple laptops?

[salamanderjuice]

Why would Tiger have dpi scaling than they remove that feature?

Because it wasn't totally done and they decided to go in the direction that they did instead.

 

[Steve Adams]

I am still laughing at the "blurry apps" comment. All apps were blurry during the time period of the software you are stating. that's to silly for words.

 

[neuropsychguy]

Goal posts. But ok. Yes, the A14 that's at work right now has a more pleasing display than the M4 air thats there. I can use the A14 longer than the air comfortably. The lenovo Aura display is better as well, but that's more expensive than the air. But I moved the goal posts back. I am not stating apple has bad displays at all, I am countering that windows/linux have just as good and better displays as well.

As I have stated. I am OS/brand agnostic. I use and enjoy all. Blind comments like "why does windows pcs have worse displays than apple" I will respond with the actual facts not anecdotal silliness.

I appreciate your reply, but I didn't move the goalposts. In your comment I replied to you said, "There are many windows laptops that have displays that are just as good as apple now. Many of them lower cost than the air. Any Asus or lenovo with an OLED display are going to be better than the air."

That means I replied with exactly the same goalposts that you set up. I simply asked for an example of one of those laptops with an OLED display that has a display that is objectively "better" than that in the Air. I know people who prefer supersaturated displays that have inaccurate colors than accurate but more neutral ones. That doesn't make those displays better, just preferred for those people. You find the display in the A14 more "pleasing", which is great, but that doesn't make it better than what's in the Air, just preferred by you.

That's fine, I just push back against claims that OLED is inherently superior to LED without considering all factors like brightness (sustained and peak), battery life, etc. OLED screens are also usually affected by the Auto Brightness Limiter to save the OLEDs and battery life. This is not an issue with the excellent A14 screen with SDR content, but HDR a full-screen white document (e.g., Word in full screen mode with the document background in white) will limit the sustained max brightness to no more than about 250 nits.

That's not a Windows issue (mostly), which is why across the board claims like "why does windows pcs have worse displays than apple" are ignorantly too generalized, but let's not match that by similarly sweeping generalizations about even the nicer OLED screens in laptops being automatically better than what Apple's including in its laptops.

I support what works best for you; subjective experience matters a lot. Personal experience doesn't automatically equal actual facts, however.

By the way, I use Macs as my primary computers (but with two Dell monitors and one LG monitor on one computer and a ultrawide Dell on the other one), but also use a Windows one almost every day and use Linux every day as well. In fact, most of my work is done in a Linux environment.

 

[pshufd]

I appreciate your reply, but I didn't move the goalposts. In your comment I replied to you said, "There are many windows laptops that have displays that are just as good as apple now. Many of them lower cost than the air. Any Asus or lenovo with an OLED display are going to be better than the air."

That means I replied with exactly the same goalposts that you set up. I simply asked for an example of one of those laptops with an OLED display that has a display that is objectively "better" than that in the Air. I know people who prefer supersaturated displays that have inaccurate colors than accurate but more neutral ones. That doesn't make those displays better, just preferred for those people. You find the display in the A14 more "pleasing", which is great, but that doesn't make it better than what's in the Air, just preferred by you.

That's fine, I just push back against claims that OLED is inherently superior to LED without considering all factors like brightness (sustained and peak), battery life, etc. OLED screens are also usually affected by the Auto Brightness Limiter to save the OLEDs and battery life. This is not an issue with the excellent A14 screen with SDR content, but HDR a full-screen white document (e.g., Word in full screen mode with the document background in white) will limit the sustained max brightness to no more than about 250 nits.

That's not a Windows issue (mostly), which is why across the board claims like "why does windows pcs have worse displays than apple" are ignorantly too generalized, but let's not match that by similarly sweeping generalizations about even the nicer OLED screens in laptops being automatically better than what Apple's including in its laptops.

I support what works best for you; subjective experience matters a lot. Personal experience doesn't automatically equal actual facts, however.

By the way, I use Macs as my primary computers (but with two Dell monitors and one LG monitor on one computer and a ultrawide Dell on the other one), but also use a Windows one almost every day and use Linux every day as well. In fact, most of my work is done in a Linux environment.

Specs on my Lenovo Yoga 2-in-1 9i Aura tenth gen: 100% sRGB, 100% Adobe RGB, and 100% DCI-P3, Color Accuracy: Delta (high precision),
Display Type: 4K PureSight OLED with VESA Certified DisplayHDR True Black 1000, Brightness: Up to 1,100 nits peak brightness for HDR content.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

That's not a Windows issue (mostly), which is why across the board claims like "why does windows pcs have worse displays than apple" are ignorantly too generalized, but let's not match that by similarly sweeping generalizations about even the nicer OLED screens in laptops being automatically better than what Apple's including in its laptops.

Luckily I also pointed out the higher refresh rates, G-Sync, in addition to OLED. Again, though, I agree with you that it is subjective. I really like the OLED display that comes on every single iPhone.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Specs on my Lenovo Yoga 2-in-1 9i Aura tenth gen: 100% sRGB, 100% Adobe RGB, and 100% DCI-P3, Color Accuracy: Delta (high precision),
Display Type: 4K PureSight OLED with VESA Certified DisplayHDR True Black 1000, Brightness: Up to 1,100 nits peak brightness for HDR content.

And let's be clear, we do not know the reason Apple hasn't adopted OLED screens. I still think it is pixel density has just now gotten to the point where they could even use it.

 

[Steve Adams]

Sweeping generalizations are dumb. The good thing is that there are so many good systems on all sides now, it's fun to be using ALL OF THEM!

That reminds me. Time to close my laptop and use my iPad for a bit. ha ha. Back shortly!

 

[Bubble99]

I appreciate your reply, but I didn't move the goalposts. In your comment I replied to you said, "There are many windows laptops that have displays that are just as good as apple now. Many of them lower cost than the air. Any Asus or lenovo with an OLED display are going to be better than the air."

That means I replied with exactly the same goalposts that you set up. I simply asked for an example of one of those laptops with an OLED display that has a display that is objectively "better" than that in the Air. I know people who prefer supersaturated displays that have inaccurate colors than accurate but more neutral ones. That doesn't make those displays better, just preferred for those people. You find the display in the A14 more "pleasing", which is great, but that doesn't make it better than what's in the Air, just preferred by you.

That's fine, I just push back against claims that OLED is inherently superior to LED without considering all factors like brightness (sustained and peak), battery life, etc. OLED screens are also usually affected by the Auto Brightness Limiter to save the OLEDs and battery life. This is not an issue with the excellent A14 screen with SDR content, but HDR a full-screen white document (e.g., Word in full screen mode with the document background in white) will limit the sustained max brightness to no more than about 250 nits.

That's not a Windows issue (mostly), which is why across the board claims like "why does windows pcs have worse displays than apple" are ignorantly too generalized, but let's not match that by similarly sweeping generalizations about even the nicer OLED screens in laptops being automatically better than what Apple's including in its laptops.

I support what works best for you; subjective experience matters a lot. Personal experience doesn't automatically equal actual facts, however.

By the way, I use Macs as my primary computers (but with two Dell monitors and one LG monitor on one computer and a ultrawide Dell on the other one), but also use a Windows one almost every day and use Linux every day as well. In fact, most of my work is done in a Linux environment.

I’m not sure why you keep quoting Lenovo and Asus are you saying most 4K OLED laptops are Lenovo or Asus? Than why does Dell or HP not have 4K OLED laptops?

 

[salamanderjuice]

I am still laughing at the "blurry apps" comment. All apps were blurry during the time period of the software you are stating. that's to silly for words.

What are you even talking about? I thought you've never even seen blurry apps. Now all apps were blurry?

You don't seem to understand the problem at all. On high DPI displays on Windows, with display scaling set above 100%, some apps will have blurry text and elements because they don't understand display scaling. Prior to Vista, there was no display scaling, there was no "blurry apps" because everything ran at 100% even if you had a very high resolution display (and yes, they existed and yes everything was tiny). Blurry apps are not just low resolution screens.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

What are you even talking about? I thought you've never even seen blurry apps. Now all apps were blurry?

You don't seem to understand the problem at all. On high DPI displays on Windows, with display scaling set above 100%, some apps will have blurry text and elements because they don't understand display scaling. Prior to Vista, there was no display scaling, there was no "blurry apps" because everything ran at 100% even if you had a very high resolution display (and yes, they existed and yes everything was tiny). Blurry apps are not just low resolution screens.

Some apps being ones from at least 7 years ago (in the case of artrage) and most likely more than a decade ago (ODBC connector). Like I have 50 programs/apps loaded on my Windows 11 laptop, and literally NONE have a blurry issue. I get that it is an issue for you, but for the vast majority of even power users, this is no longer an issue.

 

[Contact_Feanor]

Oh I get it, you mean the other number on the resolution. Okay, the full resolution of my Legion Pro is 2560 x 1600p. Your MBP 16" is actually 3456 x 2234 pixels and is best viewed at a lower resolution (OOTB of 1728 x 1117), but we will go with the higher amount of pixels.

Now it isn't an OLED display on the Mac, and that is critically important to me. The Mac also doesn't have G-Sync and up to 240Hz refresh rate. Instead settling for a mere 120Hz.

oops, you're right, I totally misplaced that the -p used for resolution is about the vertical, not horizontal pixels, apologies!

 

[salamanderjuice]

Some apps being ones from at least 7 years ago (in the case of artrage) and most likely more than a decade ago (ODBC connector). Like I have 50 programs/apps loaded on my Windows 11 laptop, and literally NONE have a blurry issue. I get that it is an issue for you, but for the vast majority of even power users, this is no longer an issue.

It's not really an issue for me either. All I'm saying is, it exists. That's it. I never said it was a big problem or something I experience regularly, just it's there. If you use WSL and GUI Linux apps it is also easy to run into there without workarounds (https://github.com/microsoft/wslg/issues/388) even on very new software.

Y'all make it sound like I'm saying it's this big problem. No, it just exists. I prefer Windows' scaling even! Just because you don't see it anymore doesn't mean it doesn't exist anymore.

 

[Steve Adams]

What are you even talking about? I thought you've never even seen blurry apps. Now all apps were blurry?

You don't seem to understand the problem at all. On high DPI displays on Windows, with display scaling set above 100%, some apps will have blurry text and elements because they don't understand display scaling. Prior to Vista, there was no display scaling, there was no "blurry apps" because everything ran at 100% even if you had a very high resolution display (and yes, they existed and yes everything was tiny). Blurry apps are not just low resolution screens.

You seem to have timelines confused. You stated windows has blurry apps. I stated that I have never seen blurry apps in windows 11. Then you posted some obsucure non support app from years ago, so I countered jokingly that apple has blurry apps to and posted an apple II screen, then you continued with other old as the hills software and I then stated all apps back then were blurry, because there were no HD displays and here we are. And I stand by my statement that I have NEVER witnessed a "blurry app" on any windows 11 system I have ever used.

 

[Abydos]

I wonder if windows pricing sets the floor for pc's (the fees set the floor during the early 'compatible' days by directing a healthy percentage of the profits to Microsoft )

 

[salamanderjuice]

You seem to have timelines confused. You stated windows has blurry apps. I stated that I have never seen blurry apps in windows 11. Then you posted some obsucure non support app from years ago, so I countered jokingly that apple has blurry apps to and posted an apple II screen, then you continued with other old as the hills software and I then stated all apps back then were blurry, because there were no HD displays and here we are. And I stand by my statement that I have NEVER witnessed a "blurry app" on any windows 11 system I have ever used.

I think you have your own timelines confused. ODBC Connector is still built into Windows 11 and supported even if it's not often used anymore.

You also didn't specify Windows 11, just Windows:

I have been on Windows since windows was windows. I have NEVER seen a blurry app. Just as I have never seen a blurry app on all the apple devices I owned except my white crackbook. But at the time it was not suppported anymore and I was running ElementaryOS on it. So I gave it a pass.

Anyways I'm done.

 

[Steve Adams]

I think you have your own timelines confused. ODBC Connector is still built into Windows 11 and supported even if it's not often used anymore.

You also didn't specify Windows 11, just Windows:

Anyways I'm done.

Anyways your done? because I stated that I have never encountered a blurry app for my entire computing life? Wow I guess I don't use uber obscure apps. I am not hardcore enough. Cool. enjoy being done, I think I am too.

 

[neuropsychguy]

I’m not sure why you keep quoting Lenovo and Asus are you saying most 4K OLED laptops are Lenovo or Asus? Than why does Dell or HP not have 4K OLED laptops?

I was quoting another commenter who mentioned Lenovo and Asus.

Dell has OLED laptops: https://www.dell.com/en-us/shopping/oled-laptops

HP also has OLED laptops: https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/mdp/omen/omen-transcend-laptops-tab11-module6-omentranscend

 

[warriors2017]

PC laptops are only good for games 😛

 

[eltoslightfoot]

PC laptops are only good for games 😛

I tend to think of it as Macbooks are bad at gaming, and PC laptops are good at everything. 😀

 

[Hajj.david]

I can't answer as to whether all laptop makers are inferior to Apple's. I felt at the time, my Thinkpad X1 Extreme has a screen that was superior, but since that laptop.

The one thing that windows does better hands down is resolution scaling, macos' scaling is not as expansive, and often producing poor results particularly is you go outside of the limited presets.

I have a hard disagree on this. YES windows does better resolution scaling BUT and its a HUGE BUT software/ui scaling is atrocious on Windows. When you have a 4k windows laptop some UI elements are ant mode others are gigantic. Its sad that in Windows 11 like 10+ years after small 4k displays became common that its still such a mess.

On Windows if I am not running native resolution, its a complete crapshoot as to whether apps will look good or not.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I have a hard disagree on this. YES windows does better resolution scaling BUT and its a HUGE BUT software/ui scaling is atrocious on Windows. When you have a 4k windows laptop some UI elements are ant mode others are gigantic. Its sad that in Windows 11 like 10+ years after small 4k displays became common that its still such a mess.

On Windows if I am not running native resolution, its a complete crapshoot as to whether apps will look good or not.

This has not been a problem in forever. Name a program that still has this problem.

 

[Steve Adams]

This has not been a problem in forever. Name a program that still has this problem.

Oregon Trail.

 

[maflynn]

Its sad that in Windows 11 like 10+ years after small 4k displays became common that its still such a mess.

How so? Instead of generalities please provide specifics.

On Windows if I am not running native resolution, its a complete crapshoot as to whether apps will look good or not.

Examples please.

I use a mixture of open source, commercial software, enterprise apps for business, and I've not incurred a single instance of whether the apps look poor or not. Nothing from adobe, microsoft, etc.

BUT software/ui scaling is atrocious on Windows. When you have a 4k windows laptop some UI elements are ant mode others are gigantic

Can you provide screen shots?

One thing that windows used to do when changing scaling is recommend logging in and out. Truth be told, I'm unsure of that message still pops up. Have you don't that after adjusting the scaling if things don't look right for you?

The broad brushes and generalities you offer seem counter to what many people in this thread have stated, even members who disagreed with me, state that most apps are fine under scaling, but you're stating the polar opposite.

 

[Steve Adams]

How so? Instead of generalities please provide specifics.


Examples please.

I use a mixture of open source, commercial software, enterprise apps for business, and I've not incurred a single instance of whether the apps look poor or not. Nothing from adobe, microsoft, etc.


Can you provide screen shots?

One thing that windows used to do when changing scaling is recommend logging in and out. Truth be told, I'm unsure of that message still pops up. Have you don't that after adjusting the scaling if things don't look right for you?

The broad brushes and generalities you offer seem counter to what many people in this thread have stated, even members who disagreed with me, state that most apps are fine under scaling, but you're stating the polar opposite.

100% accurate.

I have been using windows since windows existed, I have been using Mac since around 2007, Linux since 2010, and All mobile platforms since before cell phones were invented. We had mobile phone in our truck that ran off a repeater system grid.

I have NEVER seen a "blurry app" when I had my computer set to proper resolution for the display. Not once, Never, nada. Change to wonky resolution and sure, that's the display doing it, NOT windows, NOT the application, the MONITOR.

People need to get what's really happening, not what they think is happening. I have had the same issues with Mac. So I guess mac has "blurry apps" as well.

 

[neuropsychguy]

Specs on my Lenovo Yoga 2-in-1 9i Aura tenth gen: 100% sRGB, 100% Adobe RGB, and 100% DCI-P3, Color Accuracy: Delta (high precision),
Display Type: 4K PureSight OLED with VESA Certified DisplayHDR True Black 1000, Brightness: Up to 1,100 nits peak brightness for HDR content.

Those are great screens, but are only in higher end laptops because the tech behind them is relatively new and expensive. I mentioned them in another comment: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ferior-to-apple-laptops.2479660/post-34510459

My point was given in that other comment. We've had great quality OLED screens in smaller devices (iPhone, iPad Pro), but nothing at the sizes needed and the quality / specs needed until Tandem OLEDs came out (Apple was the first to use them in a large, consumer-focused display with the iPad Pro).

It's only been in the last year or so that larger (14 - 16") laptop screens using OLED technology have started matching the quality of the LCD screens in Apple's MacBook Pros. This is a good indication Apple will switch to OLED in the MacBook Pro soon, as has been rumored. That wasn't going to happen until the screens were good enough, which they are now.