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Why is the green "plus" button so broken?

dpaanlka said:
That's difficult to believe from your posts, but OK.



People in this thread explained it to you many times. There are also many other threads about it. How could you be such a long time Mac user and still not get it.



That couldn't be further from the truth.



You literally just said it should be changed - despite the fact that a lot of people posted saying they want it the way it is. Why? Just because YOU don't like it the way it is?

You also haven't really explained why "zoom to fit" is not a good idea. Why do you need any window to be bigger than the content it is displaying? Don't give use that "it helps me focus" bit either - people that say that probably still need training wheels on their bicycles.



Being older doesn't mean you've used Macs longer. Besides, I think that was a reasonable assumption since you're ranting about how you want to maximize everything, which I don't think most people who have had Macs for 10+ years would be doing. I guess thats a second wrong assumption I made - that you would be able to pick up on it's purpose by now.

Besides, you can't be more than 6 months older than me.
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wow guess im crazy for suggesting a feature i think would be more useful than what it does now which is pretty random in my opinion. so sue me

(wonders why numerous threads on this have been posted if everyone knows it:rolleyes: and i bet if you ask the avg mac user, they have no idea what it does!)

the reason i said i want maximize is because unlike some people here, i have to use a variety of os's and kind of like how some things are done in windows. if anything it keeps me focused from other apps. (once again (wonders why there are apps such as think that try to emulate this but not quite maximize is it :rolleyes:)

i could care less how long/much you use macs...good for you ill find a cookie. just dont assume stuff about people namely me

whatever lets just call a truce lol
 
HLdan said:
You know what? I actually agree with you wholeheartedly except for one thing. I have been on the Mac for 10 years now and not only did I start on Windows and used it for 3 years I went to school for computer science and learned only on Microsoft's DOS, yeah the hard way of programming. Now, I totally feel that OS X has room for improvement and no matter what Apple adds to it people will always complain what it's lacking.

My issue with your views as well as others is that NOBODY makes a suggestion on new ways to improve OS X, all they say is "This button in OS X should work "LIKE WINDOWS". That gets tired because it sounds as if Windows is the right way and those people as well as yourself should be running Windows, right? It makes zero sense to refer back to some other OS and suggest that the Mac should do it the way the other OS does it.

If you want improvement it's makes more sense to suggest new ways to improve the system rather than say, "The Mac should do this and that "LIKE WINDOWS".
Now, would like to hear my suggestion to improve OS X? After all of these years of evolution (especially since I feel that OS X is way ahead of Windows) I think that Apple should be able to make the OS start up instantly and no boot time.
Another suggestion, Apple should allow the user to change the look of the UI in any way we see fit as long as it doesn't change OS X's functionality. I for one don't want my Mac to look like someone else's and I hate haxies.

I am having a real issue with Apple about not creating Mail, AddressBook and iCal into one program. They are all in sync with each other but I have to open 3 different programs?
See those are all features I would like see improvement that has nothing to do with comparing it to Windows.

I don't see the Nintendo Wii mimicking features of the Xbox or the PS3 and the Wii it outselling all of them and remember the Nintendo used to be the underdog. You stay ahead by doing something new and different.
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What is wrong with a comparison point?

I read an article on DaringFireball recently, basically saying that Apple needs a contemporary. Much like how Canon has Nikon, Audi has BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, etc... Microsoft isn't really doing a whole lot to innovate (in my opinion at least) and Linux seems to be in a state of 'Anything you can do, i can do 5 times as many ways in 3 times as many steps' (again, just my opinion and based on my own personal observations). So, Apple is sort of sitting there with no one really to push them.

So, saying that Windows does something better than OS X, or wanting functionality from Windows is nothing bad. Take file sharing on Tiger for example. I hated it. Almost never did it, i would sneaker-net the files via my thumbdrive before I tried to send them via the network. XP did file sharing a million times better. All I had to do was simply right click on a folder and press SHARE. Now, it is possible that i was missing something crucial, but no one I knew could figure out how to easily share files on OS X either.

Enter Leopard, where all I have to do is turn on File Sharing, give the other person access and wah-la! They can get to my files. My friend and i do this all the time (and screen sharing, which rocks!) since although it might be a tad slower (we both usually go wireless) it is so much easier IMO.

And I have been seeing compromises in this thread, adding another button so that those that want to maximize the windows (although it does seem to be against the OS X philosophy) can, and those that want the smart resize feature can do that as well. Or, as you suggested just now, more inherent customization within the OS, much like how you can already customize almost every toolbar in every app, if you could take that further... add tabs to apps (or not), more view features... all that.
 
Wow this discussion really got out of hand

To the people that keep yelling "OMG quicktime user settings were not set! That's why it doesnt work! Blah blah I'm a fanboy!" it infact does NOT work, it doesn't even stick to after you quit the program. If you can tell me a solution that does not involve jumping through flaming hoops backwards, I will admit my mistake in thinking that the "green button is broken".
 
dukebound85 said:
lol ok. the green button is useless to me. i wish it would do what i want which is maximize
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For what purpose? are you unable to use an application as a Window - or do you need the whole screen dominated by one application? if you're going to do that, you might as well move back to DOS and single task.
 
kaiwai said:
For what purpose? are you unable to use an application as a Window - or do you need the whole screen dominated by one application? if you're going to do that, you might as well move back to DOS and single task.
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oh i can use an application as a window. it's what i do most of the time. i will say when coding or writing reports its nice to be able to see one app (easy for me to check mail, itunes, etc and get sidetracked)

sometimes app isolation is nice while running more than one app. i personally seldom use the green button as i dont know what it will do half the time so i manually adjust windows

do you use the green button?

why are people giving me such a hard time on my opinion is what i want to know and suggest i move to windows lol. i will never make another contrasting opinion that is outside of "apple's way"
 
i have set my appearance to 'graphite' in system preferences. Therefore, I have no 'green' button. Maybe this will help the thread starter with his conundrum... :p
Personally i have no problem with the 'Multi-functionality' of this feature, as all programs are not created equal. Already pointed out previously in this thread: calculator has no need to be full screen, so mac, in their infinite wisdom, endows the third button with a very interesting and useful feature to toggle between different types of calculator. cool factor=10. iTunes toggles between screensize or nicely manageable- 'eensy', 'weensy', 'teensy' module. again, cool factor=10. Personally i am never interested in full screen mode unless i am viewing pron, so this type of toggle feature is of limited value to me. Fair enough, mac could include a shortcut feature for this, or someone on macrumors may be able to provide a script in order to shut this inane thread down, no? Days like this, i wish i was a programmer. Godspeed.
 
lil'homunculus said:
i have set my appearance to 'graphite' in system preferences. Therefore, I have no 'green' button. Maybe this will help the thread starter with his conundrum... :p
Personally i have no problem with the 'Multi-functionality' of this feature, as all programs are not created equal. Already pointed out previously in this thread: calculator has no need to be full screen, so mac, in their infinite wisdom, endows the third button with a very interesting and useful feature to toggle between different types of calculator. cool factor=10. iTunes toggles between screensize or nicely manageable- 'eensy', 'weensy', 'teensy' module. again, cool factor=10. Personally i am never interested in full screen mode unless i am viewing pron, so this type of toggle feature is of limited value to me. Fair enough, mac could include a shortcut feature for this, or someone on macrumors may be able to provide a script in order to shut this inane thread down, no? Days like this, i wish i was a programmer. Godspeed.
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i agree, for some apps it is quite nice, some apps i dont know why it does what it does. i just wish for the option thats all
 
"I am having a real issue with Apple about not creating Mail, AddressBook and iCal into one program. They are all in sync with each other but I have to open 3 different programs?See those are all features I would like see improvement that has nothing to do with comparing it to Windows."

Personally, i do not use iCal or Addressbook. So why would I want the added bloat when opening the program that i want to use??? The Density of this thread boggles the mind.
 

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dukebound85 said:
oh i can use an application as a window. it's what i do most of the time. i will say when coding or writing reports its nice to be able to see one app (easy for me to check mail, itunes, etc and get sidetracked)

sometimes app isolation is nice while running more than one app. i personally seldom use the green button as i dont know what it will do half the time so i manually adjust windows

do you use the green button?

why are people giving me such a hard time on my opinion is what i want to know and suggest i move to windows lol. i will never make another contrasting opinion that is outside of "apple's way"
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*shrugs* I certainly don't get side tracked; Pages loaded up, and so I start typing.

Nope, the only time I clicked on it was an accident.

"Apple's way" - no hon, everyone did it Apple's way many moons ago; like I said on an other forum, there is the Microsoft way and the rest of the know universe. Don't automatically assume that Microsoft is the 'correct way'.
 
kaiwai said:
*shrugs* I certainly don't get side tracked; Pages loaded up, and so I start typing.

Nope, the only time I clicked on it was an accident.

"Apple's way" - no hon, everyone did it Apple's way many moons ago; like I said on an other forum, there is the Microsoft way and the rest of the know universe. Don't automatically assume that Microsoft is the 'correct way'.
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guess i get distracted easily, esp when work needs to get done haha. i dont assume MS to be the correct way hence why i use apple products. just saying not everything apple does is awesome and not everything MS does is bad.
 
TheStu said:
I was talking about HLDan's blind following of Apple... not anyone else's... and if you read back, I am on YOUR SIDE!!!! I think maximizing windows is stupid, especially on widescreen monitors, and especially on OS X.
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I don't even understand this thread anymore. I've lost track of who supports what. My post just sort of shoots out at people who want to maximize anything. "You" are those people.

I do get all huffy when people insist they want to take what is a feature of Mac OS (fit to content) and have it replaced with primitive maximizing so that it works "just like Windows."

There is no reason to maximize. It just makes you less productive.

I'm also getting tired of people coming here to MacRumors and getting enraged at people for defending the Mac OS, as if we should just politely accept any criticism, however unfounded it may be. The "fanboy" card is getting really overplayed here.
 
My god the vitriolic hatred emanating from the fanboys is disgusting.

I love my Mac, I like OSX, but I too, would like a window to maximize to full screen from time to time. Trying to focus on one thing, one task, one app - with corners of other apps sticking out the side is a distraction sometimes.

And because of that, it seems that people here want me sent back to DOS for some reason.

Think different? Nah - think EXACTLY LIKE US OR GO SCREW YOURSELF.

It's pathetic.

Doug
 
djellison said:
My god the vitriolic hatred emanating from the fanboys is disgusting.

I love my Mac, I like OSX, but I too, would like a window to maximize to full screen from time to time. Trying to focus on one thing, one task, one app - with corners of other apps sticking out the side is a distraction sometimes.

And because of that, it seems that people here want me sent back to DOS for some reason.

Think different? Nah - think EXACTLY LIKE US OR GO SCREW YOURSELF.

It's pathetic.

Doug
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Did you not read dpaanlka's post above? You just placed yourself in that same group playing the fanboy card. Thanks for the input 'Doug'.
 
How about a middle ground?

Not "THIS IS WRONG - MAKE IT LIKE WINDOWS"

or "LIKE WINDOWS? GO SCREW YOURSELF!"

However about.. "Perhaps the option to do either should be available?"

Somehow - the most hideous of all fanboys can not possibly comprehend such a thing. Your either with them, or you're a windows loving moron who needs to be ridiculed for not agreeing with every single minute detail of the OSX GUI. There is simply no way that that is a valid stance for an adult to have.

Doug
 
djellison said:
My god the vitriolic hatred emanating from the fanboys is disgusting.

I love my Mac, I like OSX, but I too, would like a window to maximize to full screen from time to time. Trying to focus on one thing, one task, one app - with corners of other apps sticking out the side is a distraction sometimes.

And because of that, it seems that people here want me sent back to DOS for some reason.

Think different? Nah - think EXACTLY LIKE US OR GO SCREW YOURSELF.

It's pathetic.

Doug
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Thanks, I thought I was all alone in my thinking


djellison said:
How about a middle ground?

Not "THIS IS WRONG - MAKE IT LIKE WINDOWS"

or "LIKE WINDOWS? GO SCREW YOURSELF!"

However about.. "Perhaps the option to do either should be available?"

Somehow - the most hideous of all fanboys can not possibly comprehend such a thing. Your either with them, or you're a windows loving moron who needs to be ridiculed for not agreeing with every single minute detail of the OSX GUI. There is simply no way that that is a valid stance for an adult to have.

Doug
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Funny how just by MENTIONING a maximize function, people tell me go back to windows, its not productive, no advantages at all, must not like os x, etc

How ironic it would be if apple implemented this in some fashion and then all the people here criticizing me now will be praising the changes because apple did it haha
 
dukebound85 said:
Funny how just by MENTIONING a maximize function, people tell me go back to windows, its not productive, no advantages at all, must not like os x, etc
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It is less productive, and whatever slight advantage it may have in some obscure situation is overshadowed by how lousy it is for all other situations. All maximizing does is train people to be comfortable only working with one window at a time, and to experience confusion at multiple windows or any other sort of multi-tasking.

Just look at any average Windows users - they literally maximize everything, simply because that feature is there. I would argue the thought of viewing more than one window at a time never even occurs to the average PC users. They've been trained to think that way by the presence of the maximize button. I've seen plenty of PC users sit down at my Mac and start dragging all the open windows to take up the entire 22" screen. When I ask "why are you doing that stop it" they respond "I don't know." What the heck is that all about?

I don't see how you think its reasonable to change a major function of the Mac OS that has been there forever, forcing all Mac users who expect it to function a certain way to have to adjust to a clearly less efficient system, just because you want to maximize something, which does happen to be how it works in Windows, hence the suggestion to use that operating system.

I am not against some sort of key combination, but it shouldn't be default. You people really need to learn to stop maximizing things.

Also, ignoring all the "fanboys" (who are making a very good argument) by posting rants about how everyone is foaming at the mouth over the mention of Windows doesn't make anyone's point any stronger.
 
dpaanlka said:
It is less productive, and whatever slight advantage it may have in some obscure situation is overshadowed by how lousy it is for all other situations. All maximizing does is train people to be comfortable only working with one window at a time, and to experience confusion at multiple windows or any other sort of multi-tasking.

Just look at any average Windows users - they literally maximize everything, simply because that feature is there. I would argue the thought of viewing more than one window at a time never even occurs to the average PC users. They've been trained to think that way by the presence of the maximize button. I've seen plenty of PC users sit down at my Mac and start dragging all the open windows to take up the entire screen. When I ask "why are you doing that stop it" they respond "I don't know." What the heck is that all about?

I don't see how you think its reasonable to change a major function of the Mac OS that has been there forever, forcing all Mac users who expect it to function a certain way to have to adjust to a clearly less efficient system, just because you want to maximize something, which does happen to be how it works in Windows, hence the suggestion to use that operating system.

I am not against some sort of key combination, but it shouldn't be default. You people really need to learn to stop maximizing things.
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i agree with your post. thats why i would like the option to. granted i hardley ever use maximize even in windows as i like windowed mode, but when i have to write up a lab, it is nice to only see one app. to me that increases my productivity

however saying it isnt as productive is subjective
 
Despite the negative energy, this is an interesting thread to me.

Personally, I never use the zoom button except very rarely with iTunes. Most of the time I just press play and then close the window. Still, I too was bothered by the zoom button's inconsistencies (not like iTunes inconsistent; I actually like its behavior) and thought it didn't make much sense, but then I just stopped worrying and never used it since because it doesn't suit my needs. Years ago when I used Windows, its way of maximizing made sense to me, but it wouldn't make as much sense for most apps on Mac. It just wouldn't, to me. Frankly, maximizing on Mac would be more usable if 1) the friggin window would reach the bottom of the screen when the Dock is hidden (this would be a GREAT behavior even if you're not trying for fullscreen; hint hint, Apple) and 2) all windows would snap to the sides of the screen so you don't have to eyeball it when you're resizing it yourself.
 
djellison said:
My god the vitriolic hatred emanating from the fanboys is disgusting.

I love my Mac, I like OSX, but I too, would like a window to maximize to full screen from time to time. Trying to focus on one thing, one task, one app - with corners of other apps sticking out the side is a distraction sometimes.

And because of that, it seems that people here want me sent back to DOS for some reason.

Think different? Nah - think EXACTLY LIKE US OR GO SCREW YOURSELF.

It's pathetic.

Doug
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https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/392944/

Can't expect anything else from here. Great UI design ideas? No... suggesting ideas to *improve* anything made by Apple is called blaspemy! How can you possibly improve anything you heathen!! Confess all your PC uses and say 3 Hail Jobs's.

I too love Mac stuff, but man. My fellow fans do make me cringe sometimes.
 
dukebound85 said:
Thanks, I thought I was all alone in my thinking




Funny how just by MENTIONING a maximize function, people tell me go back to windows, its not productive, no advantages at all, must not like os x, etc

How ironic it would be if apple implemented this in some fashion and then all the people here criticizing me now will be praising the changes because apple did it haha
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Nah it ain't gonna happen. Apple's done it this way for over 15 years on the Mac. This functionality falls under Apple's HUI guidelines.
 
Personally I understand why Apple has chosen this for their OS's but it would be nice to use an iPhoto fullscreen like effect (basically autohide menu bar and dock) every once in a while for certain writing apps, etc. and for people with monitors that aren't bloody huge! like my 12" PB where I HAVE to use Safari and Mail in basically max and I still don't have enough room.
 
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